Author Topic: Egypt is burning, Tunisia has been overthrown etc.  (Read 18853 times)

Soul Crusher

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Re: Egypt is burning, Tunisia has been overthrown etc.
« Reply #50 on: January 31, 2011, 06:23:14 AM »
240 again bringing the stupid. 

Fury

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Re: Egypt is burning, Tunisia has been overthrown etc.
« Reply #51 on: January 31, 2011, 12:27:41 PM »
Muslim Brotherhood Wants War With Israel

Mohamed Ghanem, one of the leaders of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, calls Egypt to stop pumping gas to Israel and prepare the Egyptian army for a war with it’s eastern neighbor.

Speaking with Iranian television station Al-Alam, Mohamed Ghanem blamed Israel for supporting Hosni Mubarak’s regime. Ghanem also said that the Egyptian police and army won’t be able to stop the Muslim Brotherhood movement.

There are doubts about the loyalty of the Egyptian army to president Mubarak. If the brotherhood takes control over Egypt, it will be very messy from the whole region.

In the meantime, EUR/USD , GBP/USD other pairs have enjoyed the relative calm in the Egyptian crisis and regained most of their losses on Friday. An escalation will send them down, and will strengthen the dollar, yen and Swiss franc.

http://www.forexcrunch.com/muslim-brotherhood-wants-war-with-israel/


Soul Crusher

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Re: Egypt is burning, Tunisia has been overthrown etc.
« Reply #52 on: January 31, 2011, 01:22:43 PM »

Israel shocked by Obama's "betrayal" of Mubarak
Reuters ^





Israel shocked by Obama's "betrayal" of Mubarak

By Douglas Hamilton

JERUSALEM | Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:54pm EST

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - If Egypt's President Hosni Mubarak is toppled, Israel will lose one of its very few friends in a hostile neighborhood and President Barack Obama will bear a large share of the blame, Israeli pundits said on Monday.

Political commentators expressed shock at how the United States as well as its major European allies appeared to be ready to dump a staunch strategic ally of three decades, simply to conform to the current ideology of political correctness.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has told ministers of the Jewish state to make no comment on the political cliffhanger in Cairo, to avoid inflaming an already explosive situation. But Israel's President Shimon Peres is not a minister.

"We always have had and still have great respect for President Mubarak," he said on Monday. He then switched to the past tense. "I don't say everything that he did was right, but he did one thing which all of us are thankful to him for: he kept the peace in the Middle East."

Newspaper columnists were far more blunt.

One comment by Aviad Pohoryles in the daily Maariv was entitled "A Bullet in the Back from Uncle Sam." It accused Obama and his Secretary of State Hillary Clinton of pursuing a naive, smug, and insular diplomacy heedless of the risks.


(Excerpt) Read more at reuters.com ...


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The Showstoppa

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Re: Egypt is burning, Tunisia has been overthrown etc.
« Reply #53 on: January 31, 2011, 01:28:51 PM »
Muslim Brotherhood Wants War With Israel

Mohamed Ghanem, one of the leaders of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, calls Egypt to stop pumping gas to Israel and prepare the Egyptian army for a war with it’s eastern neighbor.

Speaking with Iranian television station Al-Alam, Mohamed Ghanem blamed Israel for supporting Hosni Mubarak’s regime. Ghanem also said that the Egyptian police and army won’t be able to stop the Muslim Brotherhood movement.

There are doubts about the loyalty of the Egyptian army to president Mubarak. If the brotherhood takes control over Egypt, it will be very messy from the whole region.

In the meantime, EUR/USD , GBP/USD other pairs have enjoyed the relative calm in the Egyptian crisis and regained most of their losses on Friday. An escalation will send them down, and will strengthen the dollar, yen and Swiss franc.

http://www.forexcrunch.com/muslim-brotherhood-wants-war-with-israel/




BF, do you have info on how entrenched the Muslim Brotherhood is within the military?

Soul Crusher

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Re: Egypt is burning, Tunisia has been overthrown etc.
« Reply #54 on: January 31, 2011, 01:29:51 PM »

While Cairo Burns, Obama Parties
http://www.whitehousedossier.com ^ | January 30,2011 | Keith Koffler



The Washington A-List was out in force Saturday night at the farewell party for senior adviser David Axelrod, with a roster of guests featuring Cabinet secretaries, big shot journos and – President Obama.

As revolution threatened to sweep Egypt and possibly other allies – with the horrifying prospect of Islamism replacing reliable friends – the president was on view partying with the IN crowd.

The skepticism beyond the Beltway about whether Washington is just one big Love-In certainly gets fed by the sight – as conveyed by the press pool report – of reporters like ABC’s Jake Tapper, NBC’s Chuck Todd, National Journal’s Major Garrett, and John Harwood of CNBC and the New York Times emerging from a bash with the president that was held to toast his chief political fixer and leading spinmeister.

I understand why reporters would do this – other than the admittedly pathetic notion that, gosh, it’s fun to party with the president of the United States! It is pretty good for building sources and getting inside dope. But man, it ain’t easy smacking the White House with tough stories all the time if you’re getting invited to their exclusive parties, now is it?

Also on hand were Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner, Education Secretary Arne Duncan, and Energy Secretary Steven Chu. The party was at the Washington residence of Linda Douglass, the former hard-hitting ABC reporter who dropped out of journalism to spin the health care bill out of the White House. She’s now a VP at Atlantic Media.

So we have an official with a journalism outfit – Atlantic Media – HOSTING a party for the president and his consigliere.

Mrs. Obama stayed home. Good for her. Maybe she was monitoring the situation in Egypt.



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D I S G U S T I N G

Fury

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Re: Egypt is burning, Tunisia has been overthrown etc.
« Reply #55 on: January 31, 2011, 01:36:00 PM »

BF, do you have info on how entrenched the Muslim Brotherhood is within the military?

From what I've read, the military appears to be less warmongering than the Brotherhood. They have sympathizers and operatives in it, though. However, I don't think the military is looking for another beating from Israel right now nor are they interested in losing the billions of dollars we send them in military aid every year.

The upper echelon of Egypt's military is very secretive, though. Was reading a good article yesterday about how none of the foreign intelligence agencies have been able to crack it so no one can really be sure what the generals and colonels are thinking right now. I'll see if I can find it. Think it might have been on Debka.

Whether that changes should be the Brotherhood come to power and start their transformation of Egypt into another Islamic state is a different question.

Egyptian troops have actually been fighting Hamas for 2 days now in North Sinai for control of the area. Debka's been all over it (while the MSM ignores it).

Soul Crusher

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Re: Egypt is burning, Tunisia has been overthrown etc.
« Reply #56 on: January 31, 2011, 01:51:22 PM »
NATIONAL REVIEW ONLINE          www.nationalreview.com           PRINT

Andrew C. McCarthy

January 31, 2011 4:00 A.M.

Fear the Muslim Brotherhood



At the Daily Beast, Bruce Riedel has posted an essay called “Don’t fear Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood,” the classic, conventional-wisdom response to the crisis in Egypt. The Muslim Brotherhood is just fine, he’d have you believe, no need to worry. After all, the Brothers have even renounced violence!

One might wonder how an organization can be thought to have renounced violence when it has inspired more jihadists than any other, and when its Palestinian branch, the Islamic Resistance Movement, is probably more familiar to you by the name Hamas — a terrorist organization committed by charter to the violent destruction of Israel. Indeed, in recent years, the Brotherhood (a.k.a., the Ikhwan) has enthusiastically praised jihad and even applauded — albeit in more muted tones — Osama bin Laden. None of that, though, is an obstacle for Mr. Riedel, a former CIA officer who is now a Brookings scholar and Obama administration national-security adviser. Following the template the progressive (and bipartisan) foreign-policy establishment has been sculpting for years, his “no worries” conclusion is woven from a laughably incomplete history of the Ikhwan.

By his account, Brotherhood founder Hassan al-Banna “preached a fundamentalist Islamism and advocated the creation of an Islamic Egypt, but he was also open to importing techniques of political organization and propaganda from Europe that rapidly made the Brotherhood a fixture in Egyptian politics.” What this omits, as I recount in The Grand Jihad, is that terrorism and paramilitary training were core parts of Banna’s program. It is by leveraging the resulting atmosphere of intimidation that the Brotherhood’s “politics” have achieved success. The Ikhwan’s activist organizations follow the same program in the United States, where they enjoy outsize political influence because of the terrorist onslaught.

Banna was a practical revolutionary. On the one hand, he instructed his votaries to prepare for violence. They had to understand that, in the end — when the time was right, when the Brotherhood was finally strong enough that violent attacks would more likely achieve Ikhwan objectives than provoke crippling blowback — violence would surely be necessary to complete the revolution (meaning, to institute sharia, Islam’s legal-political framework). Meanwhile, on the other hand, he taught that the Brothers should take whatever they could get from the regime, the political system, the legal system, and the culture. He shrewdly realized that, if the Brothers did not overplay their hand, if they duped the media, the intelligentsia, and the public into seeing them as fighters for social justice, these institutions would be apt to make substantial concessions. Appeasement, he knew, is often a society’s first response to a threat it does not wish to believe is existential.

Here’s Riedel again:

By World War 2, [the Brotherhood] became more violent in its opposition to the British and the British-dominated monarchy, sponsoring assassinations and mass violence. After the army seized power in 1952, [the Brotherhood] briefly flirted with supporting Gamal Abdel Nasser’s government but then moved into opposition. Nasser ruthlessly suppressed it.

This history is selective to the point of parody. The Brotherhood did not suddenly become violent (or “more violent”) during World War II. It was violent from its origins two decades earlier. This fact — along with Egyptian Islamic society’s deep antipathy toward the West and its attraction to the Nazis’ virulent anti-Semitism — is what gradually beat European powers, especially Britain, into withdrawal.

Banna himself was killed in 1949, during the Brotherhood’s revolt against the British-backed monarchy. Thereafter, the Brotherhood did not wait until after the Free Officers Movement seized power to flirt with Nasser. They were part of the coup, Nasser having personally lobbied Sayyid Qutb (the most significant Ikhwan figure after Banna’s death) for an alliance.

Omitting this detail helps Riedel whitewash the Brothers’ complicity in what befell them. The Ikhwan did not seamlessly “move into the opposition” once Nasser came to power. First, it deemed itself double-crossed by Nasser, who had wooed the Brotherhood into the coup by signaling sympathy for its Islamist agenda but then, once in power, declined to implement elements of sharia. Furthermore, Nasser did not just wake up one day and begin “ruthlessly suppressing” the Brotherhood; the Ikhwan tried to assassinate him. It was at that point, when the Islamist coup attempt against the new regime failed, that the strongman cracked down relentlessly.

Riedel next asserts: “Nasser and his successors, Anwar Sadat and Mubarak, have alternatively repressed and demonized the Brotherhood or tolerated it as an anti-communist and right-wing opposition.” This, too, is hopelessly wrong and incomplete. To begin with, regardless of how obdurately progressives repeat the claim, Islamism is not a right-wing movement. The Brotherhood’s is a revolutionary program, the political and economic components of which are essentially socialist. It is no accident that Islamists in America are among the staunchest supporters of Obamacare and other redistributionist elements of the Obama agenda. In his Social Justice in Islam, Qutb concludes that Marx’s system is far superior to capitalism, which Islamists deplore. Communism, he argues, faltered principally in its rigid economic determinism, thus missing the spiritual components of Allah’s totalitarian plan — though Qutb compared it favorably to Christianity, which he saw as insufficiently attentive to earthly concerns.

Nasser’s persecution of the Ikhwan led many of its leading figures to flee Egypt for Saudi Arabia, where the Brothers were welcomed because they were perceived, quite correctly, as urbane but stalwart jihadists who would greatly benefit a backwards society — especially its education system (Banna and Qutb were both academics, and the Brotherhood teemed with professionals trained in many disciplines). The toxic mix of Saudi billions and Brotherhood ideology — the marriage of Saudi Wahhabism and Brotherhood Salafism — created the modern Islamist movement and inspired many of the terrorist organizations (including al-Qaeda) and other Islamist agitators by which we are confronted today. That Wahhabism and Salafism are fundamentalist doctrines does not make them right-wing. In fact, Islamism is in a virulent historical phase, and is a far more daunting challenge to the West than it was a half-century ago, precisely because its lavishly funded extremism has overwhelmed the conservative constraints of Arab culture.

Sadat pivoted away from his predecessor’s immersion of Egypt into the Soviet orbit. He did indeed invite the Ikhwan to return home, as Riedel indicates. Sadat knew the Brothers were bad news, but — much like today’s geopolitical big thinkers — he hubristically believed he could control the damage, betting that the Ikhwan would be more a thorn in the side of the jilted Nasserite Communists than a nuisance for the successor regime. Riedel’s readers may not appreciate what a naïve wager that was, since he fails to mention that the Brotherhood eventually murdered Sadat in a 1981 coup attempt — in accordance with a fatwa issued by Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman (later of World Trade Center–bombing fame) after Sadat made peace with the hated “Zionist entity.”

Sadat’s successor, Mubarak, is undeniably a tyrant who has kept emergency powers in force through the three decades since Sadat’s assassination. Any fair assessment, however, must concede that he has had his reasons. Egypt is not just plagued by economic stagnation and inequality; it has been brutalized by jihadist terror. It would be fair enough — though by no means completely convincing — for Riedel and others to argue that Mubarak’s reign has been overkill. It makes no sense, though, to ignore both the reason emergency powers were instituted in the first place and the myriad excuses jihadists have given Mubarak to maintain them.

On that score, the Brotherhood seems comparatively moderate, if only because the most horrific atrocities have been committed by two even worse terrorist organizations — Abdel Rahman’s Gamaat al Islamia and Ayman al-Zawahiri’s Islamic Jihad, both precursors to al-Qaeda (in which Zawahiri is bin Laden’s deputy). Of course, Zawahiri — like bin Laden and such al-Qaeda chieftains as 9/11 architect Khalid Sheikh Mohammed — came of age as a Muslim Brother, and Abdel Rahman notoriously had a close working relationship with the Ikhwan. But even if we close our eyes to the Ikhwan’s contributions to terrorist violence in Egypt since its attempted forcible overthrow of the regime in 1981, we must not overlook the sophisticated game the Ikhwan plays when it comes to terrorism.

Occasionally, the Brotherhood condemns terrorist attacks, but not because it regards terrorist violence as wrong per se. Instead, attacks are criticized either as situationally condemnable (al-Qaeda’s 1998 embassy bombings, though directed at American interests, killed many Muslims and were not supported by an authoritative fatwa), or as counterproductive (the 9/11 attacks provoked a backlash that resulted in the invasion and occupation of Muslim countries, the killing of many Muslims, and severe setbacks to the cause of spreading Islam). Yet, on other occasions, particularly in the Arab press, the Ikhwan embraces violence — fueling Hamas and endorsing the murder of Americans in Iraq.

In addition, the Brotherhood even continues to lionize Osama bin Laden. In 2008, for example, “Supreme Guide” Muhammad Mahdi Akef lauded al-Qaeda’s emir, saying that bin Laden is not a terrorist at all but a “mujahid,” a term of honor for a jihad warrior. The Supreme Guide had “no doubt” about bin Laden’s “sincerity in resisting the occupation,” a point on which he proclaimed bin Laden “close to Allah on high.” Yes, Akef said, the Brotherhood opposed the killing of “civilians” — and note that, in Brotherhood ideology, one who assists “occupiers” or is deemed to oppose Islam is not a civilian. But Akef affirmed the Brotherhood’s support for al-Qaeda’s “activities against the occupiers.”

By this point, the Ikhwan’s terror cheerleading should surprise no one — no more than we should be surprised when the Brotherhood’s sharia compass, Sheikh Yusuf Qaradawi, approves suicide bombings or unleashes rioting over mere cartoons; no more than when the Ikhwan’s Hamas faction reaffirms its foundational pledge to destroy Israel. Still, just in case it is not obvious enough that the “Brotherhood renounces violence” canard is just that, a canard, consider Akef’s explicit call for jihad in Egypt just two years ago, saying that the time “requires the raising of the young people on the basis of the principles of jihad so as to create mujahideen [there’s that word again] who love to die as much as others love to live, and who can perform their duty towards their God, themselves, and their homeland.” That leitmotif — We love death more than you love life — has been a staple of every jihadist from bin Laden through Maj. Nidal Hasan, the Fort Hood killer.

To this day, the Brotherhood’s motto remains, “Allah is our objective, the Prophet is our leader, the Koran is our law, Jihad is our way, and dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope. Allahu akbar!” Still, our see-no-Islamic-evil foreign-policy establishment blathers on about the Brotherhood’s purported renunciation of violence — and never you mind that, with or without violence, its commitment is, as Qaradawi puts it, to “conquer America” and “conquer Europe.” It is necessary to whitewash the Ikhwan’s brutal legacy and its tyrannical designs in order to fit it into the experts’ paradigm: history for simpletons. This substitute for thinking holds that, as Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice famously told an Egyptian audience in 2005, America has too often opted for stability rather than freedom. As a result, the story goes, our nation has chosen to support dictators when we should have been supporting  . . .  never mind that.

But we have to mind that. History is rarely a Manichean contest between good and evil. It’s not a choice between the pro-Western shah and Iranian freedom, but between the shah and Khomeini’s ruthless Islamist revolution. It’s not a choice between the pro-Western Musharraf and Pakistani freedom, but between Musharraf and a tense alliance of kleptocratic socialists and Islamists. Back in the 1940s, it was not a choice between the British-backed monarchy and Egyptian freedom, but between the monarchy and a conglomeration of Nasserite pan-Arab socialists, Soviet Communists, and Brotherhood Islamists. And today, the choice is not between the pro-American Mubarak and Egyptian freedom; it is a question of whether to offer tepid support to a pro-American dictator or encourage swift transition to a different kind of tyranny — one certain to be a lot worse for us, for the West at large, and for our Israeli ally: the Muslim Brotherhood tempered only, if at all, by Mohamed ElBaradei, an anti-American leftist who willfully abetted Iran’s nuclear ambitions while running the International Atomic Energy Agency.

History is not a quest for freedom. This is particularly true in the Islamic ummah, where the concept of freedom is not reasoned self-determination, as in the West, but nearly the opposite: perfect submission to Allah’s representative on earth, the Islamic state. Coupled with a Western myopia that elevates democratic forms over the culture of liberty, the failure to heed this truth has, in just the past few years, put Hamas in charge of Gaza, positioned Hezbollah to topple the Lebanese government, and presented Islamists with Kosovo — an enduring sign that, where Islam is concerned, the West can be counted on to back away even from the fundamental principle that a sovereign nation’s territorial integrity is inviolable.

The Obama administration has courted Egyptian Islamists from the start. It invited the Muslim Brotherhood to the president’s 2009 Cairo speech, even though the organization is officially banned in Egypt. It has rolled out the red carpet to the Brotherhood’s Islamist infrastructure in the U.S. — CAIR, the Muslim American Society, the Islamic Society of North America, the Ground Zero mosque activists — even though many of them have a documented history of Hamas support. To be sure, the current administration has not been singular in this regard. The courting of Ikhwan-allied Islamists has been a bipartisan project since the early 1990s, and elements of the intelligence community and the State Department have long agitated for a license to cultivate the Brotherhood overtly. They think what Anwar Sadat thought: Hey, we can work with these guys.

There is a very good chance we are about to reap what they’ve sown. We ought to be very afraid.

—  Andrew C. McCarthy, a senior fellow at the National Review Institute, is the author, most recently, of The Grand Jihad: How Islam and the Left Sabotage America.
 

Fury

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Re: Egypt is burning, Tunisia has been overthrown etc.
« Reply #57 on: January 31, 2011, 01:53:35 PM »



Egypt's False Prophet

The Mubarak regime is likely in its last days and the Muslim Brotherhood has now endorsed former IAEA (International Atomic Energy Agency) director Mohamed ElBaradei to replace him. The wise move by the Islamists will allow them to control the next government while soothing the fear over the creation of the Islamic Republic of Egypt.

The Muslim Brotherhood has allowed ElBaradei to lead a new coalition called the National Association for Change that also includes secular democrats and other opposition figures like Ayman Nour and Dr. Osama al-Ghazali Harb. This coalition led by ElBaradei is going to begin forming a national unity government that will exclude President Mubarak's National Democratic Party, removing a potential secular voice in the next regime. Once this national unity government is put together, it will force the U.S. to pick either the Mubarak regime or the opposition regime as the government of Egypt.

The Brotherhood decided to embrace ElBaradei because it will make it easier to pursue an Islamist agenda. One of the group's officials did not try to disguise this, saying "The Brotherhood realizes the sensitivities, especially in the West, towards the Islamists, and we're not keen to be at the forefront."

The West should not find comfort in the prospect of ElBaradei leading Egypt instead of an official Brotherhood member. He may be a secular democrat ideologically, but his foreign policy stances are not much different than the Brotherhood and he is a stalwart defender of the organization. He has just compared them to "new evangelical…groups in the U.S., like the orthodox Jews in Jerusalem" and says "[t]his is total bogus that the Muslim Brotherhood are religiously conservative. They are [in] no way extremists."

He also asserts that the Brotherhood has "not committed any acts of violence in five decades," drawing a deceitful distinction between the Brotherhood and its Palestinian branch, Hamas. The constitution of Hamas states it is "the arm of the Muslim Brotherhood in Palestine" and in March, a top Hamas operative reaffirmed that it remains so. There are already unconfirmed reports that armed members of Hamas are now entering Egypt to link up with the Brotherhood. ElBaradei has in the past defended "the Palestinian resistance," saying that "the Israeli occupation only understands violence."

An Egypt under ElBaradei would be friendly to Iran. As the director of the IAEA, El-Baradei was repeatedly accused of covering-up incriminating evidence about the Iranian nuclear program. He opposes sanctions on Iran and says "they are not like the stereotyped fanatics bent on destroying everybody around them. They are not." It has been reported that an Iranian official gave $7 million to an associate of his in Hungary to finance a presidential campaign and the Iranians also offered other forms of assistance, including information to undermine Mubarak. This could be an attempt by Egypt's Arab allies to undermine ElBaradei but at the very least, the Iranian state media is supporting the revolution.

The U.S. is currently in a difficult position as the stability of the Mubarak regime is in its geopolitical interests. However, preserving the West's strategic position requires siding against democratic change and it would reinforce the Brotherhood's narrative that the U.S. supports dictatorships as part of an imperialistic agenda.

The Muslim Brotherhood leader in Jordan is making that argument right now, stating that "We tell the Americans, enough is enough" and that "Obama must understand that the people have woken up and are ready to unseat the tyrant leaders who remained in power because of U.S. backing." Likewise, ElBaradei blames the U.S. for Mubarak's "life support" and says that the U.S. is "losing credibility every day." Secretary of State Clinton's earlier description of Mubarak's regime as "stable" and Vice President Biden's remark that Mubarak is not a dictator and should not resign assists the Egyptian opposition in making these arguments.

Tawfik Hamid, a former member of Egyptian Islamic Jihad, says that the U.S. must now force Mubarak to resign because it is the "ONLY thing that can calm the political situation sufficiently [emphasis original]" and have him replaced by a secular military leader. Hamid argues that a new presidential advisory office that includes the opposition must be created that the U.S. can work with.

The Washington Post's Jackson Diehl argues that the U.S. should support the replacement of Mubarak with a transitional government led by ElBaradei. He feels that if elections are held off for six months to a year while a new constitution is written, this would undermine the Brotherhood.

"Given time to establish themselves, secular forces backed by Egypt's growing middle class are likely to rise to the top in those elections--not the Islamists that Mubarak portrays as the only alternative," Diehl writes.

However, a poll last year shows strong support for an Islamist agenda. Over 80 percent support stoning adulterers; over three-fourths support whippings and the cutting off the hands of those that commit robbery; 84 percent favor the death penalty for apostates and 59 percent would vote for "Islamists" over "modernizers," who would get only 27 percent of the vote. One-fifth express a favorable view of Al-Qaeda, 30 percent view Hezbollah favorably, and 49 percent view Hamas favorably.

The other problem with Diehl's analysis is that the opposition coalition has not stated how long of a period there would be before elections. The Brotherhood would push for a minimal delay so its opponents could not organize effectively. ElBaradei has tried to ease concerns about his alliance with the Brotherhood by estimating they would only have the support of "maybe 20 percent of the Egyptian people." This is unlikely given the results of the aforementioned poll, but even if it were true, the Brotherhood would still be in a position to have a significant say over the direction of the government.

The decision by the Brotherhood to rally behind ElBaradei is a trick to win power without bringing scrutiny that could derail its agenda. El-Baradei may not share the Brotherhood's ideology, but his advent will empower the group and he will make Egypt an opponent of the U.S. and Israel and a friend to their enemies.

With Hezbollah taking over Lebanon and Mubarak likely on his way out in Egypt, the balance of power has shifted in favor of Iran and its Islamist allies. The pro-American Arab regimes may feel they have to cave to Iran after having lost their powerful Egyptian ally. The fall of the Mubarak regime may pave the way for a Middle East whose future is dictated from Tehran.

By Ryan Mauro

http://www.aina.org/news/20110131104748.html

The Iranians must be ecstatic at the prospect of bringing one of the major Arab powers under their control.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Egypt is burning, Tunisia has been overthrown etc.
« Reply #58 on: January 31, 2011, 01:54:59 PM »
This is going to be a catastrophe on many levels.   

kcballer

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Re: Egypt is burning, Tunisia has been overthrown etc.
« Reply #59 on: January 31, 2011, 02:10:12 PM »
Such is life.  Outside of going in there ourselves what choices do we have?  Egypt is it's own country.  If Israel is so worried why doesn't it fly in there and help him itself.  The more we stay out of the middle east the better off we are.
Abandon every hope...

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Re: Egypt is burning, Tunisia has been overthrown etc.
« Reply #60 on: January 31, 2011, 02:13:35 PM »
Fine, then when israel tells the palis to stfu and smashes them, don't say a damn thing.

kcballer

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Re: Egypt is burning, Tunisia has been overthrown etc.
« Reply #61 on: January 31, 2011, 02:17:59 PM »
Fine, then when israel tells the palis to stfu and smashes them, don't say a damn thing.

It's not like anyone has stopped it yet have they?  Israel has been allowed to marginalize and dehumanize an entire population without sanctions or repercussions.  Why would they stop now?  No president, leader or the like has been able to get them to change their ways.   
Abandon every hope...

Fury

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Re: Egypt is burning, Tunisia has been overthrown etc.
« Reply #62 on: January 31, 2011, 02:22:49 PM »
Such is life.  Outside of going in there ourselves what choices do we have?  Egypt is it's own country.  If Israel is so worried why doesn't it fly in there and help him itself.  The more we stay out of the middle east the better off we are.

Interesting. So I take it you'll be condemning Obama sticking his nose in this like he's been doing? After all, Egypt is its own country.

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Re: Egypt is burning, Tunisia has been overthrown etc.
« Reply #63 on: January 31, 2011, 02:25:07 PM »
Interesting. So I take it you'll be condemning Obama sticking his nose in this like he's been doing? After all, Egypt is its own country.

I haven't heard him comment in fact i was under the impression from the articles posted in this thread he was off partying instead. 
Abandon every hope...

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Re: Egypt is burning, Tunisia has been overthrown etc.
« Reply #64 on: January 31, 2011, 02:27:20 PM »
I haven't heard him comment in fact i was under the impression from the articles posted in this thread he was off partying instead.  

The State Department and Hillary are up to their necks in this. You don't think they're acting without Obama's approval on something as significant as this?

I understand that he's off partying as he's not much of a leader and instead chooses to have his constituents handle anything of significance, but approval is approval, and I'm sure he's given it in this situation.

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Re: Egypt is burning, Tunisia has been overthrown etc.
« Reply #65 on: January 31, 2011, 02:27:55 PM »
In the run up to this he has been meddling.   

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Re: Egypt is burning, Tunisia has been overthrown etc.
« Reply #66 on: January 31, 2011, 02:33:01 PM »
The State Department and Hillary are up to their necks in this. You don't think they're acting without Obama's approval on something as significant as this?

I understand that he's off partying as he's not much of a leader and instead chooses to have his constituents handle anything of significance, but approval is approval, and I'm sure he's given it in this situation.

Seems to be speculation at this point.  Unless you believe the US is helping the protesters.  Or if you believe Israel is doing nothing more than try to get the US to do something instead of handling their own business.
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Fury

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Re: Egypt is burning, Tunisia has been overthrown etc.
« Reply #67 on: January 31, 2011, 02:41:25 PM »
Seems to be speculation at this point.  Unless you believe the US is helping the protesters.  Or if you believe Israel is doing nothing more than try to get the US to do something instead of handling their own business.

You really don't do much reading of current events, do you? I would think that you, who seems to take everything the liberal MSM says as gospel, would have been well aware of the reports.

Now you're either living under a rock or your Obama cocklust is once again hampering your ability to think clearly. I'm going with the latter.

kcballer

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Re: Egypt is burning, Tunisia has been overthrown etc.
« Reply #68 on: January 31, 2011, 03:04:06 PM »
You really don't do much reading of current events, do you? I would think that you, who seems to take everything the liberal MSM says as gospel, would have been well aware of the reports.

Now you're either living under a rock or your Obama cocklust is once again hampering your ability to think clearly. I'm going with the latter.

I haven't taken any interest in this issue at all so haven't read much about it.  It would seem that the info posted has yet to prove any US involvement and seems to show a lack of involvement.  But please clutch at those straws, you do that oh so well in all the threads you post in. 
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Soul Crusher

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Re: Egypt is burning, Tunisia has been overthrown etc.
« Reply #69 on: January 31, 2011, 06:07:40 PM »
 Published 01:55 30.01.11
Latest update 01:55 30.01.11

Obama will go down in history as the president who lost Egypt

The street revolts in Tunisia and Egypt show that the United States can do very little to save its friends from the wrath of their citizens.

By Aluf Benn

Tags: Israel news Egypt protests Middle East peace


Jimmy Carter will go down in American history as "the president who lost Iran," which during his term went from being a major strategic ally of the United States to being the revolutionary Islamic Republic. Barack Obama will be remembered as the president who "lost" Turkey, Lebanon and Egypt, and during whose tenure America's alliances in the Middle East crumbled.

The superficial circumstances are similar. In both cases, a United States in financial crisis and after failed wars loses global influence under a leftist president whose good intentions are interpreted abroad as expressions of weakness. The results are reflected in the fall of regimes that were dependent on their relationship with Washington for survival, or in a change in their orientation, as with Ankara.

America's general weakness clearly affects its friends. But unlike Carter, who preached human rights even when it hurt allies, Obama sat on the fence and exercised caution. He neither embraced despised leaders nor evangelized for political freedom, for fear of undermining stability.

Obama began his presidency with trips to Turkey, Egypt and Saudi Arabia, and in speeches in Ankara and Cairo tried to forge new ties between the United States and the Muslim world. His message to Muslims was "I am one of you," and he backed it by quoting from the Koran. President Hosni Mubarak did not join him on the stage at Cairo University, and Obama did not mention his host. But he did not imitate his hated predecessor, President George W. Bush, with blunt calls for democracy and freedom.

Obama apparently believed the main problem of the Middle East was the Israeli occupation, and focused his policy on demanding the suspension of construction in the settlements and on the abortive attempt to renew the peace talks. That failure led him to back off from the peace process in favor of concentrating on heading off an Israeli-Iranian war.

Americans debated constantly the question of whether Obama cut his policy to fit the circumstances or aimed at the wrong targets. The absence of human rights issues from U.S. policy vis-a-vis Arab states drew harsh criticism; he was accused of ignoring the zeitgeist and clinging to old, rotten leaders. In the past few months many opinion pieces have appeared in the Western press asserting that the days of Mubarak's regime are numbered and calling on Obama to reach out to the opposition in Egypt. There was a sense that the U.S. foreign policy establishment was shaking off its long-term protege in Cairo, while the administration lagged behind the columnists and commentators.

The administration faced a dilemma. One can guess that Obama himself identified with the demonstrators, not the aging dictator. But a superpower isn't the civil rights movement. If it abandons its allies the moment they flounder, who would trust it tomorrow? That's why Obama rallied to Mubarak's side until Friday, when the force of the protests bested his regime.

The street revolts in Tunisia and Egypt showed that the United States can do very little to save its friends from the wrath of their citizens. Now Obama will come under fire for not getting close to the Egyptian opposition leaders soon enough and not demanding that Mubarak release his opponents from jail. He will be accused of not pushing Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu hard enough to stop the settlements and thus indirectly quell the rising tides of anger in the Muslim world. But that's a case of 20:20 hindsight. There's no guarantee that the Egyptian or Tunisian masses would have been willing to live in a repressive regime even if construction in Ariel was halted or a few opposition figures were released from jail.

Now Obama will try to hunker down until the winds of revolt die out, and then forge ties with the new leaders in the region. It cannot be assumed that Mubarak's successors will be clones of Iran's leaders, bent on pursuing a radical anti-American policy. Perhaps they will emulate Turkey's prime minister, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, who navigates among the blocs and superpowers without giving up his country's membership in NATO and its defense ties with the United States. Erdogan obtained a good deal for Turkey, which benefits from political stability and economic growth without being in anyone's pocket. It could work for Egypt, too.


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Re: Egypt is burning, Tunisia has been overthrown etc.
« Reply #70 on: January 31, 2011, 06:12:57 PM »
Source: cnn


Cuba's former leader Fidel Castro accused U.S. President Barack Obama of underhanded dealings with Egypt, saying Monday that while Washington provided the government with arms, the United States Agency for International Development financed the opposition.

"Nobody is unaware that the United States converted Egypt into its main ally in the Arab world," Castro wrote in an essay published Monday in state media. "It was the Arab country that received more arms shipments."

"Their Machiavellianism consisted of providing the Egyptian government with arms, while USAID provided funds to the opposition," he added, a reference to the 16th century Italian political philosopher Niccolo Machiavelli. "Obama doesn't have any way to manage the can of worms that he has opened."The current Cuban government has not commented on the crisis in Egypt although state-run media has given it limited coverage.

Read more: http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/americas/01/31/cuba.e... /


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Re: Egypt is burning, Tunisia has been overthrown etc.
« Reply #71 on: January 31, 2011, 06:24:05 PM »
Obama's Dangerous Game in Egypt
by Andrew Roberts Info




Historian Andrew Roberts' latest book, Masters and Commanders, was published in the UK in September. His previous books include Napoleon and Wellington, Hitler and Churchill, and A History of the English-Speaking Peoples Since 1900. Roberts is a fellow of the Royal Society of Literature.


If Egypt’s revolution is successful, the U.S. will lose an influential ally, says Andrew Roberts—and if history is any guide Obama may wish Mubarak had remained in power. Plus, full coverage of the Egypt protests.

How would you feel if a friend and work colleague came to your house for dinner and a bed for the night, happily accepting your hospitality, and you learned afterward that even while he was doing so, he had been angling to get you sacked? “Betrayed” isn’t the start of it. Well, that’s how Hosni Mubarak has every right to be feeling about Barack Obama today, and one day before long it might well come to haunt the President of the United States.

For when President Obama visited what he called “the timeless city of Cairo” to give his famous speech of June 4, 2009, and went through all the diplomatic pleasantries and greetings with Mubarak, exchanging presents and so on, it turns out that his administration was actively undermining his host and ally. WikiLeaks has revealed that only three weeks before Obama’s inauguration, on December 30, 2008, Margaret Scobey, the U.S. Ambassador to Egypt, warned the State Department that opposition groups had drawn up secret plans for “regime change” before the September 2010 elections. The embassy’s source was an anti-Mubarak campaigner whom the State Department had helped to attend an activists’ summit in New York. This secret support for anti-Mubarak campaigners continued after the change of administrations, and up to the outbreak of the present attempted revolution.

Should Mubarak survive, he will understandably abhor American double-dealing in this matter, and the alliance between Egypt and the United States will hereafter be characterized by suspicion and deep distrust.

Should he fall, and his place be taken at any stage by the Muslim Brotherhood, the Republican narrative for the next presidential election will be obvious. Truman lost us China; Johnson lost us Vietnam; Carter lost us Iran, and now Obama has lost us Egypt. You can’t trust the Democrats in foreign policy. Argue over the historical minutiae if you like—was LBJ more or less to blame than JFK or Nixon, for example—but if Cairo goes Islamist the overall narrative will be compelling.

History shows how small, extremist, determined, and, above all, well-organized revolutionary cadres tend to succeed out of all proportion to their numbers against amorphous, well-meaning, middle-class liberals.

For if history bears witness to anything about mob-led uprisings it is this: Revolutions eat their children. It is too universal an historical phenomenon to ignore. As you consider the future of Mohamed ElBaradei in Egypt, remember that Oliver Cromwell took over the English Revolution, not John Pym who started it. Napoleon was heir to the French Revolution, not Abbé Sieyes, a serial writer of constitutions that were never adopted for long.

Lenin usurped the Russian revolution only eight months after Alexander Kerensky toppled the Czar. ElBaradei might well be fated to play the role in Egypt that was played by Shapour Bakhtiar in Iran or Bishop Abel Muzorewa in Zimbabwe, of the stopgap figure who is acceptable to the West but soon swept away by the far more extreme Khomeini and Mugabe, respectively. Timeless Cairo itself provides the example of Mohammed Naguib, who lasted only 17 months as president of Egypt after the revolution that toppled King Farouk, before being ousted and placed under house arrest for 18 years by Nasser. Those who unleash the tiger very rarely ride it for long.

In the Egyptian parliamentary elections of 2005 the Muslim Brotherhood managed to obtain 88 seats out of 444 (if one strips out the 64 seats reserved for women and the 10 for presidential appointees), and that was with every organ of the state—especially the police—working flat out against them. The December 2010 elections were simply too fraudulent to permit anything worthwhile to be made of them. The Brotherhood’s 30 percent showing in polls compares well, therefore, to both the Nazis’ and the Bolsheviks’ positions at this stage of the revolutionary cycle. The MB is hiding behind the secular, middle class anti-Mubarak revolutionaries who sound so articulate on TV right now, but it is aiming to bury them just as surely as the Bolsheviks did the Mensheviks and the Khomeini did Shapour Bakhtiar (in both cases, literally so). History shows how small, extremist, determined, and, above all, well-organized revolutionary cadres tend to succeed out of all proportion to their numbers against amorphous, well-meaning, middle-class liberals. That’s why Kerensky wound up teaching at Stanford rather than ruling in St. Petersburg.

During the 1848 revolution in Paris, a French politician was seen chasing after the mob as it marched on the royal palace, shouting as he ran: “I am their leader; I must follow them!” That ungainly stance is essentially the one that Obama is adopting today toward the Egyptian mob, which his pronouncements, critical of Mubarak’s admittedly corrupt and unreformed government, can only have encouraged. He will soon enough find that mob-led policies are not in America’s best interests any more than they are in Egypt’s, and that open, liberal, democratic and uncorrupt Arab governments in the Middle East are as rare as the black swan.

Historian Andrew Roberts' latest book, Masters and Commanders, was published in the U.K. in September. His previous books include Napoleon and Wellington, Hitler and Churchill, and A History of the English-Speaking Peoples Since 1900. Roberts is a fellow of the Royal Society of Literature.

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Great article 

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Re: Egypt is burning, Tunisia has been overthrown etc.
« Reply #72 on: January 31, 2011, 06:31:14 PM »
That last one was a great read.

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Re: Egypt is burning, Tunisia has been overthrown etc.
« Reply #73 on: January 31, 2011, 06:53:35 PM »
reminds me of a cool sean connery movie quote "you're playing both sides"....


that is one cool dude.

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Re: Egypt is burning, Tunisia has been overthrown etc.
« Reply #74 on: January 31, 2011, 07:19:08 PM »
Latest update 11:26 04.06.09
'Obama met Muslim Brotherhood members in U.S.'
Egyptian newspaper Almasry Alyoum reports president met group's members who live in U.S., Europe.
By Zvi Bar'el and Avi Issacharoff (Cairo)
 


U.S. President Barack Obama met with members of Egypt's Islamist opposition movement, the Muslim Brotherhood, earlier this year, according to a report in Thursday editions of the Egyptian daily newspaper Almasry Alyoum.

The newspaper reported that Obama met the group's members, who reside in the U.S. and Europe, in Washington two months ago.

According to the report, the members requested that news of the meeting not be publicized. They expressed to Obama their support for democracy and the war on terror.

The newspaper also reported that the members communicated to Obama their position that the Muslim Brotherhood would abide by all agreements Egypt has signed with foreign countries.

Obama landed in Cairo on Thursday to deliver a conciliatory speech as part of his outreach to the Arab and Muslim world.

The Muslim Brotherhood is considered a Sunni-dominated fundamentalist Islamic organization that has spawned numerous factions across the Arab world that have engaged in terrorist activity, including the Palestinian rejectionist group Hamas.

It is also the main opposition bloc to Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, whose regime is viewed favorably in the West due to its adherence to the thirty-year-old peace treaty between Israel and Egypt.

The Cairo University setting in which Obama will make his Middle East speech is spectacular and will accommodate a highly unusual audience.

Israel's ambassador to Egypt, Shalom Cohen, who had been specifically invited by the White House, will be seated not far from Iran's representative and the 11 members of the Egyptian Parliament who belong to the Muslim Brotherhood.

Also present will be a group of Egyptian artists who oppose normalization with Israel, including film stars Adel Imam and Leila Alawi.

Just hours before the speech, the hall in which Obama will speak was nearly filled to capacity.

Egyptian sources said Ambassador Cohen was invited by the president of the university, Prof. Hossam Kamel, who told journalists the instruction to invite Cohen came from "on high" and was "impossible to refuse." The White House constructed the guest list together with the director-general of Mubarak's office, and the Egyptian president personally authorized the result.

The Muslim Brotherhood MPs had requested an emergency debate in parliament on the invitation of the Israeli ambassador, and university lecturers threatened to block Cohen from entering the campus. However, the protests were said to have subsided when the Muslim Brotherhood MPs found their names on the guest list as well, along with the name of recently released opposition activist Ayman Nour.
 





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