Question for Van_bilderass

[First Blood]

How do you think a natural bodybuilder should train?

upper/lower body with 4 workouts per week? what would you suggest to someone who simply doesn't have the mental or physical energy to train half of the body in one workout? what alternatives are there?

[Spike]

ghey style training (GST)

1:19 is KEY to winning whatevr pissing contest you can get into without those DAMN JUICEHEADS AROUND

[johnnynoname]

Even though I'm not on the gas, I am still a big fan of steroids....

....mostly because I hate Natural Competitors

I know I go on and on about it but really- most Natural Competitors are pompous assholes......they are just like those straight edge assholes

[Van_Bilderass]

I'm no natural training guru, or any guru for that matter. 

But what's the goal of this natural bodybuilder? Just looking more muscular or actually competing in natural bb shows without drugs (insanity)?

But generally I would suggest forgetting about hitting every muscle directly each week. For example, go in one day and think, "today I'm going to squat" and then if there's still energy do some assistance exercises.

Compound movements. Squats, deads, some kind of press, rows. That's your whole body trained pretty much, even if not directly. If you can work those in each week, hit them hard, and progress, you get better results than the natural guy who works his muscles from every angle.

For those OCD guys who need a specific program, Lyle McDonald has a sweet 4 day program.

[che]

Even though I'm not on the gas, I am still a big fan of steroids....

....mostly because I hate Natural Competitors

I know I go on and on about it but really- most Natural Competitors are pompous assholes......they are just like those straight edge assholes

You don't hate me Johnny , do you ?

[First Blood]

I'm no natural training guru, or any guru for that matter. 

But what's the goal of this natural bodybuilder? Just looking more muscular or actually competing in natural bb shows without drugs (insanity)?

But generally I would suggest forgetting about hitting every muscle directly each week. For example, go in one day and think, "today I'm going to squat" and then if there's still energy do some assistance exercises.

Compound movements. Squats, deads, some kind of press, rows. That's your whole body trained pretty much, even if not directly. If you can work those in each week, hit them hard, and progress, you get better results than the natural guy who works his muscles from every angle.

For those OCD guys who need a specific program, Lyle McDonald has a sweet 4 day program.

Whatever you are, you know your stuff lol. The goal is to add as much mass as possible (as a natural).  

Yeah I checked out his 4 day routine but the fact is that I can't simply train all of my upper body in one workout...I can do basically one or two heavy lifts then I'm destroyed. and everything else has to be pretty light. I don't look forward to workouts knowing I have to do 2 chest exercises, two for back, someting for delts, and maybe a couple of sets for biceps and triceps. Even if the volume isnt't high it just destroys me mentally and everything after the first 1-2 exercises is totally half-assed lol.

[Van_Bilderass]

Whatever you are, you know your stuff lol. The goal is to add as much mass as possible (as a natural).  

Yeah I checked out his 4 day routine but the fact is that I can't simply train all of my upper body in one workout...I can do basically one or two heavy lifts then I'm destroyed. and everything else has to be pretty light. I don't look forward to workouts knowing I have to do 2 chest exercises, two for back, someting for delts, and maybe a couple of sets for biceps and triceps. Even if the volume isnt't high it just destroys me mentally and everything after the first 1-2 exercises is totally half-assed lol.

I believe you can't hit everything at maximum intensity each week. Many claim they go to failure on everything, all working sets, all workouts, year round. But there's always some pacing involved, always.
No one goes all out, all the time. 
Since I mentioned Lyle, he also talks about prioritizing some parts/lifts for a period and doing maintenance work on the rest. The half-assed sets aren't wasted if you're moving forward overall... if you can see you're getting stronger on the big lifts at the end of the month/year. The maintenance work ensures you don't "forget" the movement and when you decide to blast that movement you don't have to build up to peak weights all over again.

Here's the bodybuilding guru that is Lyle, for those that aren't familiar with him. 

[Krankenstein]

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=364784.0;attach=400716;image

Here's the bodybuilding guru that is Lyle, for those that aren't familiar with him. 

Thats not eugene levy

[Schmoe Buster]

I believe you can't hit everything at maximum intensity each week. Many claim they go to failure on everything, all working sets, all workouts, year round. But there's always some pacing involved, always.
No one goes all out, all the time. 
Since I mentioned Lyle, he also talks about prioritizing some parts/lifts for a period and doing maintenance work on the rest. The half-assed sets aren't wasted if you're moving forward overall... if you can see you're getting stronger on the big lifts at the end of the month/year. The maintenance work ensures you don't "forget" the movement and when you decide to blast that movement you don't have to build up to peak weights all over again.

Here's the bodybuilding guru that is Lyle, for those that aren't familiar with him. 

LOL at the pic name

[225for70]

Even though I'm not on the gas, I am still a big fan of steroids....

....mostly because I hate Natural Competitors

I know I go on and on about it but really- most Natural Competitors are pompous assholes......they are just like those straight edge assholes

Johhny's favorite things: Vicoden, Winstrol, anavar, powerbars, xanaz, cocaine, equipoise, XTC, protein bars, Oxycodone

[Spike]

LOL at the pic name

x2

[First Blood]

I believe you can't hit everything at maximum intensity each week. Many claim they go to failure on everything, all working sets, all workouts, year round. But there's always some pacing involved, always.
No one goes all out, all the time.  
Since I mentioned Lyle, he also talks about prioritizing some parts/lifts for a period and doing maintenance work on the rest. The half-assed sets aren't wasted if you're moving forward overall... if you can see you're getting stronger on the big lifts at the end of the month/year. The maintenance work ensures you don't "forget" the movement and when you decide to blast that movement you don't have to build up to peak weights all over again.

Here's the bodybuilding guru that is Lyle, for those that aren't familiar with him.  

yeah, I have read some of his stuff but he seems abit mentally unstable lol.

I have always been impressed with people who can do like 6-7 different exercises in one workout.

if i do heavy bench presses then i'm mentally and physically spent and my second chest press has to be something like db presses in the 10-15 rep range. I can't do any heavy shoulder presses after that, only something like side raises and then one triceps exercise. so that's like 4 exercises. one heavy the rest is lighter shit.

I must have some kind of attention deficit disorder. But I have like 4 exercises in me then im fucked.

[tbombz]

stop training to failure. stay at least 2 reps shy of failure every set. never ever go to the point of failure. lift heavy. very heavy. never go to failure. focus on the basics, use good form, master the basics using heavy weight. never go to failure. use HEAVY WEIGHT, GOOD FORM. never go to failure. bench press, dead lifts, shoulder press, deadlifts, some kind of squat,  barbell rows, dumbell side laterals or upright rows, dumbell or barbell curls, some kind of tricep movement. calves/hams/abs. all heavy weight. all good form. hit every muscle every 2-4 days. dont go to failure. increase weight every couple workouts.

[Meso_z]

How do you think a natural bodybuilder should train?

upper/lower body with 4 workouts per week? what would you suggest to someone who simply doesn't have the mental or physical energy to train half of the body in one workout? what alternatives are there?

I think you should train your own way. I train the same on or off the drugs.

[evandatp]

if i do heavy bench presses then i'm mentally and physically spent and my second chest press has to be something like db presses in the 10-15 rep range. I can't do any heavy shoulder presses after that,[\quote]
So simply don't do another pressing exercise that day.


My $NZ0.02
Buy yourself a copy of Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe. Learn the exercises' form, then read up on periodisation (also in the back of Starting Strength).then try his variation on the whole-body, 3-day-a-week 5x5.

I agree with this:

stop training to failure. stay at least 2 reps shy of failure every set. never ever go to the point of failure. lift heavy. very heavy. never go to failure. focus on the basics, use good form, master the basics using heavy weight. never go to failure. use HEAVY WEIGHT, GOOD FORM. never go to failure. bench press, dead lifts, shoulder press, deadlifts, some kind of squat,  barbell rows[/qoute]

[dj181]

Focus on The Big 5. 1. Squat/Leg Press 2. Bench/Smith/Machine Press 3. Row 4. Overhead Press 5. Chins or Pulldowns. If you do a Push/Pull/Legs split, then you have 1 or 2 major exercises per day.

[flinstones1]

Johhny's favorite things: Vicoden, Winstrol, anavar, powerbars, xanaz, cocaine, equipoise, XTC, protein bars, Oxycodone

I am willing to bet 100 bucks Johnny would respond very well to AAS.

[Van_Bilderass]

stop training to failure. stay at least 2 reps shy of failure every set. never ever go to the point of failure.

Do you go 2 reps shy of failure on things like tricep pushdowns, concentration curls and db laterals? Some exercises are way more draining than others... the little ones like say rope pushdowns there's no problem going to failure.
Relative beginners should go to failure frequently IMO. You never really learn to strain hard if you never really challenge yourself. The more advanced you are, the harder you can go, and stopping 2 reps shy is still hard training.

I am willing to bet 100 bucks Johnny would respond very well to AAS.

Johnny is very very familiar with hormones. He knows them inside and out, believe me. 

[tbombz]

Do you go 2 reps shy of failure on things like tricep pushdowns, concentration curls and db laterals? Some exercises are way more draining than others... the little ones like say rope pushdowns there's no problem going to failure.
Relative beginners should go to failure frequently IMO. You never really learn to strain hard if you never really challenge yourself. The more advanced you are, the harder you can go, and stopping 2 reps shy is still hard training.

Johnny is very very familiar with hormones. He knows them inside and out, believe me. 

i dont do concentration curls 

i sometimes go to failure by accident, gte caught up in a set. but for the most part i try to stay t least 2 reps shy of failure on every exercise, small muscle/big muscle alike. when i go to failure i just dont make any progress, unless i ony do one set and really really push it to the brink. and then i only gain a little size, but no strength. any more than one set to failure, any more heavy sets on top of that, i lose strenngth and size.

beginners can make gains doing anything. .

[dj181]

So if you don't train to failure then how is it possible to stimulate muscle growth? P.S. The stimulus for training with heavier and heavier training loads IS training til muscular failure. If you don't train hard enough then you won't stimulate muscular growth.

[Van_Bilderass]

i dont do concentration curls 

i sometimes go to failure by accident, gte caught up in a set. but for the most part i try to stay t least 2 reps shy of failure on every exercise, small muscle/big muscle alike. when i go to failure i just dont make any progress, unless i ony do one set and really really push it to the brink. and then i only gain a little size, but no strength. any more than one set to failure, any more heavy sets on top of that, i lose strenngth and size.

beginners can make gains doing anything. .

I have a hard time believing you always go 2 reps shy of failure on things like bench presses. 
I think you mentioned benching over 400? From what I've seen, that doesn't happen without MANY failed reps.  Come on, you don't even need a spotter if you go 2 reps shy but you do use a spotter, right? 

Beginners make gains on anything, initially. But there's tons of scared nerds who are still squatting 185 half-range after 3 years because they can't push themselves, scared of getting stuck at the bottom and so on.  There's some "natural athletes", maybe with prior sporting experience who can train hard, yet not to failure, but many do need this phase... learning to push for all they're worth. 

[johnnynoname]

Johnny is very very familiar with hormones. He knows them inside and out, believe me. 

lol...I get it

[225for70]

I am willing to bet 100 bucks Johnny would respond very well to AAS.

he has used steroids...he has used very low dosages and short cycles..He probably favors winstrol, anavar, primobolan

[johnnynoname]

he has used steroids...he has used very low dosages and short cycles..He probably favors winstrol, anavar, primobolan

the last cycle i did was a year ago and I quit after a couple of weeks because I was afraid of losing "aesthtics" and I was like "if it isn't broke" don't fix it.  So, it had nothing to do with "morals" or anything like that.
Plus, I didn't care for the UG lab my dealer got his stuff from

fortunately, I made my money back selling it to someone else.

*Adds "steroid dealer" to list of dubious jobs*

[225for70]

the last cycle i did was a year ago and I quit after a couple of weeks because I was afraid of losing "aesthtics" and I was like "if it isn't broke" don't fix it.  So, it had nothing to do with "morals" or anything like that.
Plus, I didn't care for the UG lab my dealer got his stuff from

fortunately, I made my money back selling it to someone else.

*Adds "steroid dealer" to list of dubious jobs*

What was the cycle look like

50mg winstrol day
50 mg anavar