Question for Van_bilderass

[pellius]

I believe you can't hit everything at maximum intensity each week. Many claim they go to failure on everything, all working sets, all workouts, year round. But there's always some pacing involved, always.
No one goes all out, all the time. 
Since I mentioned Lyle, he also talks about prioritizing some parts/lifts for a period and doing maintenance work on the rest. The half-assed sets aren't wasted if you're moving forward overall... if you can see you're getting stronger on the big lifts at the end of the month/year. The maintenance work ensures you don't "forget" the movement and when you decide to blast that movement you don't have to build up to peak weights all over again.

Here's the bodybuilding guru that is Lyle, for those that aren't familiar with him. 

It's been many years since I saw a pic of him. Well, at least he finally lost some weight.

[pellius]

Hey VanB, since we have your attention, how exactly do you do a glucose test on HGH?

[First Blood]

stop training to failure. stay at least 2 reps shy of failure every set. never ever go to the point of failure. lift heavy. very heavy. never go to failure. focus on the basics, use good form, master the basics using heavy weight. never go to failure. use HEAVY WEIGHT, GOOD FORM. never go to failure. bench press, dead lifts, shoulder press, deadlifts, some kind of squat,  barbell rows, dumbell side laterals or upright rows, dumbell or barbell curls, some kind of tricep movement. calves/hams/abs. all heavy weight. all good form. hit every muscle every 2-4 days. dont go to failure. increase weight every couple workouts.

I don't train to failure all the time, I will do it on a set here and there but that's not really the issue. I simply can't train half of my body effectively in one session, so it becomes difficult to train everything twice a week. I could do some kind of 3-way split but then I would have to be in the gym 6 days per week (if the goal is to train everything twice a week) which is too much for me.

If I stay 2+ reps from failure all the time, nothing happens. I have tried it.

[First Blood]

I have a hard time believing you always go 2 reps shy of failure on things like bench presses.  
I think you mentioned benching over 400? From what I've seen, that doesn't happen without MANY failed reps.   Come on, you don't even need a spotter if you go 2 reps shy but you do use a spotter, right?  

Beginners make gains on anything, initially. But there's tons of scared nerds who are still squatting 185 half-range after 3 years because they can't push themselves, scared of getting stuck at the bottom and so on.   There's some "natural athletes", maybe with prior sporting experience who can train hard, yet not to failure, but many do need this phase... learning to push for all they're worth.  

exactly, there seems to be a disconnect between 'theory' and what really is done in the gym (among those who get results).

I been doing alot of reading lately and I could pretend that I'm an expert just by repeating everything I have read but there is a difference between true applied knowledge and having alot information floating around in your head.

[First Blood]

So if you don't train to failure then how is it possible to stimulate muscle growth? P.S. The stimulus for training with heavier and heavier training loads IS training til muscular failure. If you don't train hard enough then you won't stimulate muscular growth.

You don't need to train to failure to stimulate muscle growth or to progress. It may help or it may not. But failure in itself is not the adaptation trigger (that is just HIT nonsense). 

[dj181]

Ok, so what is the stimulus for muscular growth and adaptation? I say that it is training with heavier and heavier training loads ie. Progressive Overload. So what is the best way to train which will allow one to train with heavier and heavier training loads?

[Palpatine Q]

Ok, so what is the stimulus for muscular growth and adaptation? I say that it is training with heavier and heavier training loads ie. Progressive Overload. So what is the best way to train which will allow one to train with heavier and heavier training loads?

Yeah....but aren't you a twink ?

[The Abdominal Snoman]

Natural trainers with a total mind/muscle connection should focus on total muscle confusion.

[flinstones1]

dedicated natural trainers need one thing..a gun to off yourself....How can you dedicate so much of your life knowing you will still suck. I made it very clear for myself that if I didnt like the way I looked after my most recent cycle,to give up bbing. Luckily I finally am gaining well once I started training harder..thank god Honestly unless your on growth hormone I really do believe that even if your loaded to the gill on AAS you have to train hard as natties even for enhanced lifters..... GH changes the ballgame cause it makes your body alot more sensitive to weightraining so you can train like a pussy.

[cephissus]

How can you dedicate so much of your life knowing you will still suck.

Health concerns and money, not knowing any sources or caring to look for them, etc.  Plus, competing is obviously a joke, but you can still look good (and to the typical person who doesn't sit around staring at ronnie's glutes all day, REALLY GOOD) as a natural, if you've got the body for it.  Plus, what's the alternative?  Being a fat slob?  Looking like a crossfitter?


edit -

If we're talking about competition though, I agree.  Anyone who seriously thinks about competing as a true natural (meaning no hormones ) needs to kill himself.

Also, First Blood, I'm wondering... are you thinking of giving up your dreams of mutation?

[che]

dedicated natural trainers need one thing..a gun to off yourself...

  Anyone who seriously thinks about competing as a true natural (meaning no hormones ) needs to kill himself.

Why the hate guys 

[cephissus]

except che

[che]

except che

[Leatherneck]

Like alot of folks are saying, stick to compound movements. Incline Bench for chest, Military Press for shoulders, Dealifts for back, Squats & Stiff Leggs for legs, etc. Going to failure isn't necessary but atleast come close. Try 8 working sets for major body parts, 6 for minor, and 4 for traps and forearms. Over-training is for real. It's an uphill battle as a natural, but, progress can still happen. I've been training for almost 13 years and this year I've put on 7 lbs this year. Now, the last 7 years prior I only put a total of 10 lbs on... So keep trucking.

[dj181]

Good points c I'm not sure if even many of the folks here realize THE HUUUUUGE FUCKING DIFFERENCE btw 165 @ 15% to 165 @ sub-7. One can be the exact same bodyweight, but look 1000% better by being much, much leaner. And yes, the difference btw 15% and 7% is ENORMOUS

[pellius]

You don't need to train to failure to stimulate muscle growth or to progress. It may help or it may not. But failure in itself is not the adaptation trigger (that is just HIT nonsense). 

What kind of training do you do?

[pellius]

Like alot of folks are saying, stick to compound movements. Incline Bench for chest, Military Press for shoulders, Dealifts for back, Squats & Stiff Leggs for legs, etc. Going to failure isn't necessary but atleast come close. Try 8 working sets for major body parts, 6 for minor, and 4 for traps and forearms. Over-training is for real. It's an uphill battle as a natural, but, progress can still happen. I've been training for almost 13 years and this year I've put on 7 lbs this year. Now, the last 7 years prior I only put a total of 10 lbs on... So keep trucking.

Gaining weight in and of itself is meaningless. The vast majority of Americans get heavier and heavier every year without ever picking up a weight. How has your body composition change? Were those 7 pounds actually muscle?

[First Blood]

Health concerns and money, not knowing any sources or caring to look for them, etc.  Plus, competing is obviously a joke, but you can still look good (and to the typical person who doesn't sit around staring at ronnie's glutes all day, REALLY GOOD) as a natural, if you've got the body for it.  Plus, what's the alternative?  Being a fat slob?  Looking like a crossfitter?


edit -

If we're talking about competition though, I agree.  Anyone who seriously thinks about competing as a true natural (meaning no hormones ) needs to kill himself.

Also, First Blood, I'm wondering... are you thinking of giving up your dreams of mutation?

urge to mutate still exists  , but it's not worth it for me. I will just stick with my 3 meals per day and 3 lifting sessions per week, I don't think it's worth (nor necessary for a natural such as me) dedicating more time than that.

[First Blood]

Ok, so what is the stimulus for muscular growth and adaptation? I say that it is training with heavier and heavier training loads ie. Progressive Overload. So what is the best way to train which will allow one to train with heavier and heavier training loads?

sorry didn't mean to come off as an asshole I just mean that failure is not a must although for sure it can be beneficial in some cases. also some people will tolerate more failure training than others.

[First Blood]

Good points c I'm not sure if even many of the folks here realize THE HUUUUUGE FUCKING DIFFERENCE btw 165 @ 15% to 165 @ sub-7. One can be the exact same bodyweight, but look 1000% better by being much, much leaner. And yes, the difference btw 15% and 7% is ENORMOUS

exactly!!!

but as a natural you will never be lean and big  ....although some guys naturally have a huge frame.

[Leatherneck]

Gaining weight in and of itself is meaningless. The vast majority of Americans get heavier and heavier every year without ever picking up a weight. How has your body composition change? Were those 7 pounds actually muscle?

You're right on, gaining weight is not always a positive thing. But, in  my case, about 6 of the 7 lbs were quality. I'm in the Marine Corps so cardio is huge. I'm in the process of getting out and because of it I've been able to scale back the intensity of my cardio which I'm sure plays a part in the muscle gain. 17 lbs in 7 years is far from a miracle but it's all about consistentcy.

[First Blood]

What kind of training do you do?

I train 3 days per week. I'm gonna start doing what van bilderass mentioned; focusing more on a couple of muscle groups and maintain the rest then switch to focusing on two other muscles groups and maintain the rest etc. That way you avoid being in the gym every day lol...and  still be able to train 1-2 muscle groups twice per week. so that's my plan!!  

[pellius]

You're right on, gaining weight is not always a positive thing. But, in  my case, about 6 of the 7 lbs were quality. I'm in the Marine Corps so cardio is huge. I'm in the process of getting out and because of it I've been able to scale back the intensity of my cardio which I'm sure plays a part in the muscle gain. 17 lbs in 7 years is far from a miracle but it's all about consistentcy.

Since you're a Marine, I will not question you. Huge fan of the leather necks. Bad asses. All the way bad asses.

[Leatherneck]

Since you're a Marine, I will not question you. Huge fan of the leather necks. Bad asses. All the way bad asses.

Thanks for the props. Maybe now that I'm getting out maybe I can keep up the growth spurt.

[chaos]

How do you think a natural bodybuilder should train?

Lift the weights, put them down.

It's really not that fucking hard.