Bodybuilding can be very expensive

[pellius]

From my observation usually the rags to riches stories come from extremely driven people. Extremely driven people will succeed no matter their environment IMO.

Some of these "rags to riches" people seem to resent many of the people in their own original social class due to them being, in their eyes, inferior, weak, lazy or whatnot and many tell their story to differentiate themselves from the rest of the pack.

They've been lumped together with the "bad" for so long that they do whatever they can to not act/be one of "them", sometimes that includes telling your story in such a way to make people think getting out of the ghetto is "just something you should do" if you are from there. This of course does not taking into account all the other factors that come into play, and there are many.

Perhaps. But going from rags to modestly middle class come from people who don't want to be bums.

That being said, I never discount the amount of luck or chance that plays a big factor in everybody's life.

[che]

Those rule were intended as the minimum required so that you don't live on the streets or on the dole. There are ALWAYS exceptions. Shit does happen. There will always be people who are just fucked. I stressed that and always stress that. My sister worked for Aloha Airlines for 28 years before they went bust. She lost everything. Pension, 401K everything she worked for since she was 19 years old. But should Coach and others like him be forced literally at gun point to bail her out? There are no guarantees in life. Did your mother-in-law have health insurance?

They both have health insurance.

[pellius]

Yeah yeah yeah.  That was SLIGHTLY off the point asshole.

I was wondering where an honest debate will soon lead to personal insults. And it was exactly on the point. Our military is what makes us the leader of the world. At 20% of the GDP it's a small price especially when you consider we spend more than double the amount in entitlements and give away programs, fucktard.

You are not really very bright are you? What do you do?

BTW fatso, this is still a bodybuilding board. Have you started working out yet?

[pellius]

Originally I agreed very much with the five pieces of advice he gave, but I felt it painted a somewhat rosy picture of reality and wanted to counter it to give the other side of the story a voice. I agree 100% about taking personal responsibility but I feel we as humans have not evolved enough for it to be reasonable to suggest all people will.

That said, cases like che's parents in his post above are truly awful. Cringeworthy stuff what I hear of your healthcare/insurance systems, but you and Coach suggest it isn't really that bad. It seems to me the really poor get off with getting bad credit, but the middle class, with some meager resources have to pay and many end up in bad situations.

Nothing is ever "all".

We have one of the best, if the best, health care system in the world. The problem is with cost containment. There's not many people here dying of the streets due to lack of health care like they are in Cuba. We are a county who by world standards live a pretty comfortable, cushy and ever self-indulgent life style. Even the people categorized as poor have a car, have a TV an air conditioner -- and lots of food. 

[che]

 There's not many people here dying of the streets due to lack of health care like they are in Cuba.

Haha ,now you are making shit up.

[Xerxes]

Nothing is ever "all".

We have one of the best, if the best, health care system in the world. The problem is with cost containment. There's not many people here dying of the streets due to lack of health care like they are in Cuba. We are a county who by world standards live a pretty comfortable, cushy and ever self-indulgent life style. Even the people categorized as poor have a car, have a TV an air conditioner -- and lots of food. 

Do you feel that your healthcare coverage is fair and balanced? In comparison to other OECD countries I mean. If yes why are you whining (seems like there is a lot of public outrage about your system), if no then why can't you emulate one of the systems overseas?

[che]

Do you feel that your healthcare coverage is fair and balanced? In comparison to other OECD countries I mean. If yes why are you whining (seems like there is a lot of public outrage about your system), if no then why can't you emulate one of the systems overseas?

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

[Xerxes]

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

37th in the world 

[#1 Klaus fan]

Pellius. The point was this: how do these two statements make sense together?

Money SHOULD be spent on defence.

No, unlike you, I'm independent enough to NOT depend on the government for my needs, that's not what OUR government was ever intended for.

[Vince G, CSN MFT]

No no no, let the government pay for it, its free...well exept the for the extra 25% in taxes we'll all have to pay, other than it's free. Hail Obamacare!

Joe, the bill for Tommy's operation is 135K.  There's hardly anyone in the U.S that can afford that.   Even with decent insurance, it would still be around 50k and nobody has that kind of money lying around.  I certainly don't and neither do most people.  \


Requiring people to buy insurance along with placing a cap on malpractice lawsuits will bring the cost back to sanity levels and will improve the quality of care because hospitals will have the money for cleaner facilities and more personnel

[#1 Klaus fan]

Vince, I can't believe you are saying this after all that sold bee pollen. 

[pellius]

Haha ,now you are making shit up.

Ok, you're saying the are cities are littered with dying bodies due to lack of health care. Where exactly? Drive down the crappiest area in your town tonight and give me a count of how many dead bodies you see on the street.

We don't live in a perfect country. But by world standards this is top of the top of the food chain. We have it easy here. Even the poor people are fat. In fact, most of the fat people in this country are on the lower end of the economic scale. Be grateful.

[che]

Ok, you're saying the are cities are littered with dying bodies due to lack of health care. Where exactly? Drive down the crappiest area in your town tonight and give me a count of how many dead bodies you see on the street.

I've never said that , you said that people in Cuba are dying in the street because the lack of health care ,that's not true, you made that up..

[pellius]

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

I already said don't go by those phony stats. Especially by the WHO which always skews against the US. Even how countries defined infant mortality varies widely. But if you really want to believe that Malta or Singapore have better health care then so be it. Where did that political leader from Canada go when he needed top notched health care. Hint: It wasn't Malta. Nor was it Canada.

[pellius]

Pellius. The point was this: how do these two statements make sense together?

As stated before, national defense is one of the few things required in our Constitution. Being healthy, having food and clothing, having a roof over your head is not the responsibility of the government. Providing for the defense of the country -- our country's needs -- is not the same as providing for individual needs.

[Xerxes]

I already said don't go by those phony stats. Especially by the WHO which always skews against the US. Even how countries defined infant mortality varies widely. But if you really want to believe that Malta or Singapore have better health care then so be it. Where did that political leader from Canada go when he needed top notched health care. Hint: It wasn't Malta. Nor was it Canada.

Political leaders of Canada getting top dollar treatment from top doctors in the states is hardly comparable to the lower social classes. I have no doubt in my mind that the US has some of the best institutions in the world, the question is not the quality of their work, its the extent of its reach within the population, regardless of social class.

[che]

I already said don't go by those phony stats. Especially by the WHO which always skews against the US. Even how countries defined infant mortality varies widely. But if you really want to believe that Malta or Singapore have better health care then so be it. Where did that political leader from Canada go when he needed top notched health care. Hint: It wasn't Malta. Nor was it Canada.

That's The World Health Organization ,who we should go by  ? Sean Hannity  

[Natural Man]

[pellius]

I've never said that , you said that people in Cuba are dying in the street because the lack of health care ,that's not true, you made that up..

Oh. You're right about what I said literally. It was just an honest spelling error. I meant to write "Congo". I always get mixed up with words that start with a "C".

That being said, the prisoners at Guantanamo live better than the majority of those right outside the gate.

[Xerxes]

That being said, the prisoners at Guantanamo live better than the majority of those right outside the gate.

Now what does this useless piece of "information" contribute to the debate, are you debating or promoting some agenda?

I'm out its 4:39 in the morning here 

[tommywishbone]

My valuable hip & friends.

[pellius]

Political leaders of Canada getting top dollar treatment from top doctors in the states is hardly comparable to the lower social classes. I have no doubt in my mind that the US has some of the best institutions in the world, the question is not the quality of their work, its the extent of its reach within the population, regardless of social class.

Again, everyone in the US gets health care. But, as it is everywhere in the world through out time immemorial, the rich people always have it better. The poorest person in the US still has it better in every aspect than how most people in the world have to live. One of the top killers in this world is diarrhea solely due to lack of fresh water.

[pellius]

That's The World Health Organization ,who we should go by  ? Sean Hannity  

Common sense. Know anybody living in Malta? I do?

[Xerxes]

Again, everyone in the US gets health care. But, as it is everywhere in the world through out time immemorial, the rich people always have it better. The poorest person in the US still has it better in every aspect than how most people in the world have to live. One of the top killers in this world is diarrhea solely due to lack of fresh water.

As the worlds leading nation you can not take the stance that "oh well we have it so much better than INDIA or CONGO". You have to compare yourself to the top as you are the mighty USA.

[pellius]

Now what does this useless piece of "information" contribute to the debate, are you debating or promoting some agenda?

I'm out its 4:39 in the morning here 

The US treat it's terrorist better than Castro treats his own people. Cuba does not take care of it's people better than the US.