Author Topic: 48÷2(9+3) = ? --> How smart are you?  (Read 34896 times)

jwb

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Re: 48÷2(9+3) = ? --> How smart are you?
« Reply #275 on: April 12, 2011, 06:19:22 PM »
A big part of it is that the vertical format was used and not the horizontal format you see more of today because of computers.

With the new convention the question as seen by people of the old convention in (horizontal format) was as you pointed out 48/(2(9+3)) but that simply contains too many parentheses to be practical so they made ab the same as a*b and changed the question format to match.

The Algebra is the same it can't change.




jwb

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Re: 48÷2(9+3) = ? --> How smart are you?
« Reply #276 on: April 12, 2011, 06:51:33 PM »
This guy explains it well...

The practical effect is that you should never write an expression like  1/2x unless you are sure it won't generate any confusion -- e.g. if you can be certain your audience will infer from context whether you mean  (1/2)x or 1/(2x) .

Sometimes, you will face an author/teacher who uses the standard convention. If you prefer a different convention, then you're going to have to learn to read the wrong convention, and avoid writing anything that would be different amongst the two conventions.

The same advice applies to someone who prefers the standard convention, but is faced with a book/teacher that uses a different one.

Rami

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Re: 48÷2(9+3) = ? --> How smart are you?
« Reply #277 on: April 12, 2011, 07:18:28 PM »

2. Exponents and Radicals


Exposed to free Radicals.  :-\


Howard

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Re: 48÷2(9+3) = ? --> How smart are you?
« Reply #278 on: April 12, 2011, 08:04:57 PM »
shouldn't be that difficult... however, 65% of stupid meatheads on another board had it wrong... i have high hopes for you fella getbiggers ;)

to make the situation similar than on that another board i'll give you two options...is the right answer 2 or 288?
Basic order of operations requires the answer to be 2.

Howard

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Re: 48÷2(9+3) = ?
« Reply #279 on: April 12, 2011, 08:08:05 PM »
Once again you show what an utter retard you are yet you still persist in interjecting your ignorance in subjects you know nothing about. I majored in mathematics at UCLA and you are wrong as you are in just about anything not having to do with drugs and gay sex.

48/2(9+3)
48/2(12)
48/24
= 2
You are 100% correct!
I have been teaching physics for over 20 yrs and have a doctorate in physics/science ed.
I swear to GOD some of these meatheads really think they are right about misguided conspiracy history ideas to various stuff in science/math, etc.
I just laugh, play along and crack up whe they say they owned me...whne they are 100% wrong and don't even realize it.

tbombz

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Re: 48÷2(9+3) = ?
« Reply #280 on: April 12, 2011, 08:28:09 PM »
LOL! Expertise in mathematics is a requirement in any technical field and how I am able to work as an engineer.

What UC school did you claim to be accepted to and what is your major?


mathematics is ok up to basic algerba and geometry plus statistics.. advanced algebra and above is a complete waste of time for 99% of people..


my sister works at and lives next to UC merced so that is where i am going. plan to study economics and then business. my associate degree is in geography.

Howard

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Re: 48÷2(9+3) = ? --> How smart are you?
« Reply #281 on: April 12, 2011, 08:29:48 PM »
I got my GED after failing it 12 times but I got it by GOD.

jwb

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Re: 48÷2(9+3) = ? --> How smart are you?
« Reply #282 on: April 12, 2011, 08:51:30 PM »
Howard,

Is the question asking this: Qn1

jwb

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Re: 48÷2(9+3) = ? --> How smart are you?
« Reply #283 on: April 12, 2011, 08:52:03 PM »
or this? Qn2

tu_holmes

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Re: 48÷2(9+3) = ? --> How smart are you?
« Reply #284 on: April 12, 2011, 08:53:05 PM »
Well, that's the problem with implied parenthesis isn't it?

It's hard to tell right?

jwb

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Re: 48÷2(9+3) = ? --> How smart are you?
« Reply #285 on: April 12, 2011, 09:06:58 PM »
You can only go on what your conventions tell you. Some go for qn1 and get 2, the others go for qn2 and get 288. Both sets of conventions get qn1 and qn2 correct btw but they think 48/2(9+3) is asking different things.

Hulkotron

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Re: 48÷2(9+3) = ? --> How smart are you?
« Reply #286 on: April 12, 2011, 09:41:29 PM »
Can somebody gas this shitty thread for christs sake?

Primemuscle

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Re: 48÷2(9+3) = ? --> How smart are you?
« Reply #287 on: April 12, 2011, 10:25:12 PM »
Can somebody gas this shitty thread for christs sake?

Is it boring you?

I rather enjoy this subject and discussion for a change of pace.

pellius

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Re: 48÷2(9+3) = ?
« Reply #288 on: April 13, 2011, 03:00:15 AM »
mathematics is ok up to basic algerba and geometry plus statistics.. advanced algebra and above is a complete waste of time for 99% of people..


my sister works at and lives next to UC merced so that is where i am going. plan to study economics and then business. my associate degree is in geography.

Fuck man, you are an absolute retard. You think we can send a satellite into orbit using just algebra? Build a bridge? Engineer an automobile? Your ignorance is so profound that you are really clueless to just how stupid and unaware you are.

nzmusclemonster

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Re: 48÷2(9+3) = ? --> How smart are you?
« Reply #289 on: April 13, 2011, 03:29:49 AM »
I just love the fact that so many are outing themselves as morons.
P

jwb

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Re: 48÷2(9+3) = ? --> How smart are you?
« Reply #290 on: April 13, 2011, 03:35:27 AM »
Read this...

Mathematics is supposed to provide you with single, definitive answers. However, in this case, it does not. I really scoured the internet and countless textbooks for the proper answer and have made inquiries with few people I know whom I venerate as some of the greatest minds that I have had the luxury of meeting and the answer isn't as definitive as you would hope. Sadly, the real answer is that both sides are correct to a point. (…and it pains me to even remotely admit that anything outside of 288 could be the answer).

Position 1: The Order of Operations: This stance states that since the standard order of operations puts multiplication and division on the same rank, the equation can be read as (48÷2)*(9+3). This reigns with truth as 48÷2(9+3) is the same as 48÷2*(9+3). Using the standardized left-to-right notation, the answer can be nothing outside of 288. This left-to-right concept is indicative of “PEMDAS” that we all learned in grade school.

Position 2: The Distributive Property: This stance states that multiplication through juxtaposition, being a commonplace concept, naturally makes a parenthetical implication around grouped numbers. Thus, the equation appears as 48÷[2(9+3)]. This technique is correct as well. However, this makes the answer 2.

If you are bored enough to read [reference 1], you’ll see that the writer has noted multiplication by juxtaposition as being used in algebraic nomenclature dating as far back as the fifteenth century. That being said, the standard left-to-right order of operations predates even that. The real problem is that both techniques are taught in our school systems, depending on the chosen literature. Both forms can be found dating far enough back that there’s a solid argument for either chosen notation. Sadly, there is no current ‘authority’ to standardize which is appropriate. As Doctor Peterson mentions in [reference 2] “When algebraic notation was first being developed, it was common for each writer to begin by explaining his own notation.” That seems to still be true as students are still being taught the distributive property and multiplication by juxtaposition as well as the standardized left-to-right order of operations. The correct answer breaks down to who is asking the question.

As much as you’d like it to be a single definitive answer, alas, it is not. In my opinion, that needs to change. Someone should standardize it. But the real answer here, to end all further questions on this topic, is the ambiguity of the formula makes it faulty to begin with. No self respecting mathematician would have used this notation. Formula ambiguity can destroy the outcome. This should have been written as 48 / (2 * (9+3)) or (48 / 2)*(9+3), thus guaranteeing the desired result.

To summarize, as much as one would like to claim one answer or the other, the sad reality is; being as there is no current standardization in this case, the answer is relative to the inquirer. In the future, if an “ab/cd” –type equation is proposed, you’re better off inquiring as to the proposer’s notation preference.
Source(s):
[Reference 1]: http://jeff560.tripod.com/operation.html
[Reference 2]: http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/view/57021.html

roccoginge

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Re: 48÷2(9+3) = ? --> How smart are you?
« Reply #291 on: April 13, 2011, 03:38:20 AM »
this is simple 6th grade math.

jwb

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Re: 48÷2(9+3) = ? --> How smart are you?
« Reply #292 on: April 13, 2011, 03:51:03 AM »
this is simple 6th grade math.
You think half the fucking internet gets 2 and half gets 288 because half of them can't remember 6th grade math? The probability of that is beyond fathom.

It is because of differing conventions being taught and applied to a poorly written question plain and simple.

Hulkotron

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Re: 48÷2(9+3) = ? --> How smart are you?
« Reply #293 on: April 13, 2011, 07:02:03 AM »
poorly written question plain and simple.

I made this point on the first page I think but everyone wants to prove how smart they think they are on a bodybuilding board.

tbombz

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Re: 48÷2(9+3) = ?
« Reply #294 on: April 13, 2011, 07:20:32 AM »
Fuck man, you are an absolute retard. You think we can send a satellite into orbit using just algebra? Build a bridge? Engineer an automobile? Your ignorance is so profound that you are really clueless to just how stupid and unaware you are.

nah, u need geometry for the bridge, and yeah like i said for about 1% of the population or less advanced math is useful.  how many people are rocket scientists and nuclear physicists (ect) again??

thats right.


and thats besides the fact that the advanced positions which require high level math are really not necessary but luxury compnents to society anyways. we'd probably be better off with out them.

lovemonkey

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Re: 48÷2(9+3) = ?
« Reply #295 on: April 13, 2011, 07:28:05 AM »
nah, u need geometry for the bridge, and yeah like i said for about 1% of the population or less advanced math is useful.  how many people are rocket scientists and nuclear physicists (ect) again??

thats right.


and thats besides the fact that the advanced positions which require high level math are really not necessary but luxury compnents to society anyways. we'd probably be better off with out them.

Just go shoot yourself  ::)

LUXURY COMPONENTS?? What the in the blue fuck do you think you're typing on right now?? A hint: it would not have been there in front of you if it wasn't for advanced mathematics. Most of modern society was constructed with the aid of complex mathematics. Mathematics is essential for the world you have come to known. It's a good thing you do not actively participate in constructing it. Just stay away. Smoke your pot and let people with a shred of common sense do their thing.
from incomplete data

tbombz

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Re: 48÷2(9+3) = ?
« Reply #296 on: April 13, 2011, 07:29:16 AM »
Just go shoot yourself  ::)

LUXURY COMPONENTS?? What the in the blue fuck do you think you're typing on right now?? A hint: it would not have been there in front of you if it wasn't for advanced mathematics. Most of modern society was constructed with the aid of complex mathematics. Mathematics is essential for the world you have come to known. It's a good thing you do not actively participate in constructing it. Just stay away. Smoke your pot and let people with a shred of common sense do their thing.
::)

computers and internet arent luxury then what is?  ;D

el numero uno

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Re: 48÷2(9+3) = ?
« Reply #297 on: April 13, 2011, 07:45:50 AM »
nah, u need geometry for the bridge, and yeah like i said for about 1% of the population or less advanced math is useful.  how many people are rocket scientists and nuclear physicists (ect) again??

thats right.


and thats besides the fact that the advanced positions which require high level math are really not necessary but luxury compnents to society anyways. we'd probably be better off with out them.

Damn you are RETARDED! and you don't even realize it. You only need geometry for the bridge? lol. I'm studing "**** engineering" and we use integration mainly to calculate fluid presion and work. It's very important to us and we are far from being "rocket scientists". Saying advance algebra is a complete waste of time it's just so retarded that I don't know if you are a troll or what.

coltrane

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Re: 48÷2(9+3) = ? --> How smart are you?
« Reply #298 on: April 13, 2011, 07:47:00 AM »
TMBOMBZ:  Honestly, your comments about math NOT being important, etc, is about as ignorant a comment as you can make.  Math is the foundation of just about all careers revolving around the sciences, even the different biologies.  Math is what got us into space.  Math is what builds us cities.  Math is how you commute to work.  I'm not going to continue because the applications of math are too vast. 

You need to know when to pick your battles bro.  You're young and still learning that. 

Howard

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Re: 48÷2(9+3) = ? --> How smart are you?
« Reply #299 on: April 13, 2011, 07:49:48 AM »
Howard,

Is the question asking this: Qn1
This based on order of operations you learn in 9th grade algebra