Something new I tried !

[wes]

I`m a big believer in periodization, and cycling between heavy and lighter//moderate weight workouts.

I train according to what I did the previous week,of course if I`m feeling particularly great,I`ll push the envelope even if I did it on the previous week anyway......go for it if it`s there.

Anyway,I like training intensely with very little rest between sets,except when I`m going heavy on the basics of course or using lower reps.

I use Tri-Sets,Super-Sets,and Giant-Sets, as well as 1+1/2 reps,rest pause,descending sets,running the rack,etc. etc.................anyt hing to create intensity!!

On Giant-Sets I normally use 4-6 different exercises in a row,no rest between sets,add weight,repeat,again,again,then drop back in weight and get a higher rep set in.

I was tired and figured I do Giant-Sets but with a twist.....here`s what I did:

Pre-Exhaust: (These machines are side by side so the lend themselves perfectly for this way of training.)
{Cybex Seated Lateral Raise Machine-13 reps
{Cybex Seated Lateral Press Machine-12 reps...right back to
{Cybex Seated Lateral Raise Machine-13 reps
{Cybex Seated Lateral Press Machine-12 reps

I did two cycles of this plus other stuff for shoulders,and did a total of 16 sets of delts in 11 minutes !!

Talk about fucking pain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Next day was arms so I tried it again:
{Seated Alternate DB Curls-10 reps
{Skullcrushers-12 reps
{Seated Alternate DB Curls-10 reps
{Skullcrushers-12 reps

Perfect scenario,do curls,flop back on bench do skulls......no rest until all 4 sets/exercses are done.

Then I hit Cable Preachers and Pressdowns the same way(2 cycles each),and finished off by down the rack DB Curls 3 reps each DB,then 2 sets of Triceps Dips between 2 benches.

Like I said earlier,I normally use 4-6 different exercises in a row but this was so much faster...........constan t weight ,no rest between sets,no people stealing your equipment,waited until my partner did her sets,then went again.

Fucking brutally painful and very fast workout......huge burn and pump.

Try it out if pressed for time,tired,or doing a scheduled light day.

Thank me later.

[local hero]

sounds like somthing good to try to keep things fresh....

[jpm101]

Believe that Wes was doing the old tried and true Quad sets system. Which is really a double SS system, non stop. Usually a different exercise is done for the 4 movements, where more of an angle is performed on each individual exercise (Gironda speaks of this). But with repeating the (arms) DB curl-SC'er Wes is applying more of a direct focus on that muscle groups. Probably inviting more muscle fatique in a shorter period of time (TUT), Not having to switch exercise that much.

I set up a Quad set program, for the chest/pecs, for a guy years ago. He though he was going to work the quads (legs) and got a bit bummed out. Finding out what a Quad set was, was a very happy moment for him.  People tend to gain very well on Quad sets, for a short period of 6 to 8 weeks. As Wes said, Periodization can be important in any style training. Good Luck.

[vic86]

Never tried periodizing methord till now but ill surely incorporate as soon as my training resumes! Thanks

[wes]

Believe that Wes was doing the old tried and true Quad sets system. Which is really a double SS system, non stop. Usually a different exercise is done for the 4 movements, where more of an angle is performed on each individual exercise (Gironda speaks of this). But with repeating the (arms) DB curl-SC'er Wes is applying more of a direct focus on that muscle groups. Probably inviting more muscle fatique in a shorter period of time (TUT), Not having to switch exercise that much.

I set up a Quad set program, for the chest/pecs, for a guy years ago. He though he was going to work the quads (legs) and got a bit bummed out. Finding out what a Quad set was, was a very happy moment for him.  People tend to gain very well on Quad sets, for a short period of 6 to 8 weeks. As Wes said, Periodization can be important in any style training. Good Luck.

Spot on/excellent descripition jpm!!!

I love your posts man........you know your stuff!! 

[wes]

sounds like somthing good to try to keep things fresh....

Exactly,and it helps to keep injuries at bay,by stressing the muscle,as opposed to the joints,tendons,ligaments,and most importantly,a persons ego. 

Very painful way to train,without having to use max weight........you are forced to use lighter weight to do it properly.

Actually,you will be using max weight,but in this fashion it will be a lot lighter than you may normally use,but it sure won`t feel like it.

[tbombz]

making the muscle do the work as opposed to just moving the weight from point a to point b is good.


but moving quickly between sets and exercises, drop sets, pre exaust, and all that stuff that weakens the muscle is not.


a burning pump doesnt mean you are going to grow. neither does a "painful workout".



cut the shit tim, and start training like you know what your doing.

[wes]

making the muscle do the work as opposed to just moving the weight from point a to point b is good.


but moving quickly between sets and exercises, drop sets, pre exaust, and all that stuff that weakens the muscle is not.


a burning pump doesnt mean you are going to grow. neither does a "painful workout".



cut the shit tim, and start training like you know what your doing.

Try these as opposed to your 5 rep max curls my brother.

I also go very heavy at times,as well as using a myriad of different regimens.

A person can only get so strong Taylor.............other wise after a few decades of training,we`d all be benching 1000 pounds for reps,with no limit in sight.

[wes]

but moving quickly between sets and exercises, drop sets, pre exaust, and all that stuff that weakens the muscle is not.

If we both were of equal strength in every exercise,both did the exact same training routine,but I did mine in 40 minutes,and it took you 90 minutes,who trained harder?

I`ll tell you the correct answer later. 

[chaos]

but moving quickly between sets and exercises, drop sets, pre exaust, and all that stuff that weakens the muscle is not.

I'm not an advocate of giant sets per se (ala the Milos style) bt have you ever given them a real thought out chance?

I could set you up a program that would make you stronger and not "weaken"  the muscle at all.

Don't believe me? Try it.

[225for70]

making the muscle do the work as opposed to just moving the weight from point a to point b is good.
but moving quickly between sets and exercises, drop sets, pre exaust, and all that stuff that weakens the muscle is not.
a burning pump doesnt mean you are going to grow. neither does a "painful workout".
cut the shit tim, and start training like you know what your doing.

OMG i can't stop laughing..Tbombz why can't you translate all this knowledge into muscular gains? 

[tbombz]

everything has its place but the majority of your training should be done with long rest between sets and at least 1-2 reps short of failure and you should be doing a good amount of low rep training on a consistant basis. switching it up every once in a while and oing workouts similar to the one you described is beneficial but only if done sporatically. you can make gains doing that kind of training only for so long, and then you have switch to something focused on strength in order to make any progress. better to stick with what causes the growth, that being an increase in the weightXvolume capacity of the muscle and long rest between sets, shy of failure... and use these "intensity" techniques every so often to keep progress going.

[chaos]

Bullshit. I'll explain later or jpm can explain.

[chaos]

everything has its place but the majority of your training should be done with long rest between sets and at least 1-2 reps short of failure and you should be doing a good amount of low rep training on a consistant basis. switching it up every once in a while and oing workouts similar to the one you described is beneficial but only if done sporatically. you can make gains doing that kind of training only for so long, and then you have switch to something focused on strength in order to make any progress. better to stick with what causes the growth, that being an increase in the weightXvolume capacity of the muscle and long rest between sets, shy of failure... and use these "intensity" techniques every so often to keep progress going.

OK first......you need a change up in routine from time to time no matter what, can we agree on that?

Second.....doing these giant set you CAN gain strength.......here's how.....

Ok, let's take legs....the way I did them for awhile...

leg extentions/squats/leg press/hack squats/leg extentions light.....now let's say your numbers are

leg ext   120#
squats 315#
leg press  630#
hack squat 270#
leg ext 80#

All for sets of 10, each exercise back to back, resting only the time it takes to move between areas.....after a couple weeks you are doing


leg ext 130#
squats  335#
leg press  680#
hack squat 320#
leg ext 100#

Wouldn't it stand to show that you got stronger? Here's the kicker though....after 6 weeks or so of this training, when you go back to your "normal" sets.....you find they are easier, if only for the fact that your conditioning has improved so much from the giant sets......so you are able to use more weight....

more weight = stronger.....right?

[wes]

Good post Chaos!1

[wes]

Taylor,my workouts are always different from the last ones I did the previous week.


Here`s a chest workout example for 3 weeks:

1st. Week:

Smith Inclines:
15 (warmup) addweight
8 add weight
5 add weight
5 add weight
3 add weight
6-8 decreased weight
10 decreased weight
max reps (burnout set) to failure with more decreased weight

Flyes:
12 add weight
8  add weight
5-6
10-12 decreased weight

Seated Bench Machine-3 x 10-12 with 30 seconds rest periods
________________________ ________________________ _________

Week 2:
Bench Press:
bar-20 (warmup)
12 (warmup)
8
5
5
3 (not always)
6-8
10-12

Dumbell Inclines:
10
8
5
5
10-12

Crossovers:
3 x 15-20 short rests
________________________ _________________

Week 3:

Smith Inclines-1+1/2 reps equals 1 rep-4 sets,constant weight,30 seconds rest

Super-Set:
{Cybex Pec-Deck-3 x 10-12 Pre-Exhaust
{Cybex Seated Bench Press Machine:3 x 12,10,8 (adding weight each set,minute between Super-Sets

Dips-Bodyweight-20
add weight-12
add weight for 8,drop weight,keep going.


so you see I always trainin differently........this is just 3 scenarios I might use out of many more.

I always keep the heavy basics in (at least one at each session),and I always train hard as possible to get the reps I`m shooting for or to complete the sets if I`m not taking longer rests.

Watch how I transform this year at the Masters Nats............I hope!! 

[tbombz]

OK first......you need a change up in routine from time to time no matter what, can we agree on that?

Second.....doing these giant set you CAN gain strength.......here's how.....

Ok, let's take legs....the way I did them for awhile...

leg extentions/squats/leg press/hack squats/leg extentions light.....now let's say your numbers are

leg ext   120#
squats 315#
leg press  630#
hack squat 270#
leg ext 80#

All for sets of 10, each exercise back to back, resting only the time it takes to move between areas.....after a couple weeks you are doing


leg ext 130#
squats  335#
leg press  680#
hack squat 320#
leg ext 100#

Wouldn't it stand to show that you got stronger? Here's the kicker though....after 6 weeks or so of this training, when you go back to your "normal" sets.....you find they are easier, if only for the fact that your conditioning has improved so much from the giant sets......so you are able to use more weight....

more weight = stronger.....right?

i agree with your entire post. i just dont think that type of training should be done for long periods of time. it should be used to change things up, but the bulk of training should be the way i described previously.

there are better methods of training for a change of things in my opinion as well

[chaos]

i agree with your entire post. i just dont think that type of training should be done for long periods of time. it should be used to change things up, but the bulk of training should be the way i described previously.

there are better methods of training for a change of things in my opinion as well

Have you tried it? Like I said on the first page, if you seriously want to try it, I will write you a similar program to what I did, it will change the way you feel about it.

Also, I agree, no program should be followed for too long. Although I consistantly return to a style that I have found works best for me, every few months I switch it up for a few weeks.