Question to ex-juicers and naturals

[Nirvana]

no I dont, really. You should think about juice just as some protein sup that is really 1000% more effective than the others  

with juice you lose the gains very fast

see craig titus.

naturally you can go without training and eat less and look the same for long periods of time.

[Firemuscle]

sorry man but thats bullshit, these "side effects" your pals had would be coming either way, juicing or not. Take todays all olympia line up, maybe only branch is bald, and these guys are on colossal doses. If you take some test or some oxandrolone your side effects will be ZERO, 100% zero. Steroids like sustanon and deposteron are primarely made for the eldery you know. Also, you are into weed and it kills brain cells and fucks your lunges 10x worse than cigs so there you go. 

 I totally disagree with most of that.

 Baldness is the only side effect that probably comes anyway with or without gear, the gear just speeds up the baldness.

 But gyno, acne, high blood pressure, limp dick..... come on now man, without the gear people don't get all that. That's just crazy talk, trying too hard to minimize steroids dangers.

 Weed is not good for your lungs, but it's not nearly as bad as cigarettes, that's for sure.

 Weed kills brain cells? I'm pretty sure that's a bullshit myth.

[muscle19]

with juice you lose the gains very fast

see craig titus.

naturally you can go without training and eat less and look the same for long periods of time.

ya but look at what happened to him, he wasnt able to train let alone eat the same while he used, big difference. if you eat good and train hard when off, youll maintain alot of your gains. If you cycle right, you wont get gyno and if you start going bald, sorry to say but you were going to go bald sometime soon.

its all a personal perference on how that person wants to look. take steroids to look a certain way or stay natural, either way you bust your ass everyday in the gym till you feel like youll explode, even more so if using IMO. fuck what others do, do what you want

[wes]

lol- makes you wonder why the hell you ever stopped in the first place eh?

 

No shit huh?? 

I was on for long periods at ytimes.....used to do at least 5 shows a years,sometimes even 7.

[no one]

No shit huh?? 

I was on for long periods at ytimes.....used to do at least 5 shows a years,sometimes even 7.

jesus christ. 7?! people dont understand the discipline it takes to diet for one show, let alone 7. fucking props to you sir. wtf

im pretty much resigned now to being on the rest of my life. fuck it- i'll run low dose from here till the box. and its not to be 'big'- i could care less how big i get anymore- i just want to feel good in and out of the gym. anyone who uses will know what i mean.

[Bam-bam]

jesus christ. 7?! people dont understand the discipline it takes to diet for one show, let alone 7. fucking props to you sir. wtf

im pretty much resigned now to being on the rest of my life. fuck it- i'll run low dose from here till the box. and its not to be 'big'- i could care less how big i get anymore- i just want to feel good in and out of the gym. anyone who uses will know what i mean.

no one if you werent a gimmick you would be a cool cat

[wes]

jesus christ. 7?! people dont understand the discipline it takes to diet for one show, let alone 7. fucking props to you sir. wtf

im pretty much resigned now to being on the rest of my life. fuck it- i'll run low dose from here till the box. and its not to be 'big'- i could care less how big i get anymore- i just want to feel good in and out of the gym. anyone who uses will know what i mean.

Thanx bro,same here.......geting old and it will only help my well being..........plus I like looking good and being a strong old geezer! 

[wes]

no one if you werent a gimmick you would be a cool cat

He`s been cool since he joined the board bro............he just doesn`t like YOU!  lol    j/k

[gh15]

with juice you lose the gains very fast

see craig titus.

naturally you can go without training and eat less and look the same for long periods of time.

no,,naturals lose their gains the fastest moment stop traiing,,natural at 180 with fast metabolizm will lose gains very fast into the 160s2-3 weeks,,

hormonized will lose more gains because he gained more gains...but his loss will be slower  due to blood having still hormones in it at higher levels,,


both will lose,,the homnized lifter will look much lelss impressive though after they lose their gains

gh15 approved

[dj181]

I've hit a plateau for the last few years in lifting, but my 5k and 1/2 marathon times continue to go down. I lift now just for maintenance and because I like to move iron, it doesn't feel wasted. I don't really know how to get juice though, sure there are websites but they never look legit. If I could sit down with somebody I trust face to face and get legit quality gear I would do it in a heartbeat, seems like great fun.

What kinda times are you running the 5k in?

[dj181]

no,,naturals lose their gains the fastest moment stop traiing,,natural at 180 with fast metabolizm will lose gains very fast into the 160s2-3 weeks,,

gh15 approved

True dat! I would usually keep the same bodyweight (roughly 165 or so) but go from 8-9% to 12-13% within 3 weeks from stopping training. So my bodyweight would stay roughly the same, but I would lose muscle while gaining fat, all within 3 weeks time.

[Meso_z]

no,,naturals lose their gains the fastest moment stop traiing,,natural at 180 with fast metabolizm will lose gains very fast into the 160s2-3 weeks,,

hormonized will lose more gains because he gained more gains...but his loss will be slower  due to blood having still hormones in it at higher levels,,


both will lose,,the homnized lifter will look much lelss impressive though after they lose their gains

gh15 approved

God is spot on as always.

[chunkramwell]

What kinda times are you running the 5k in?

Best was 24:20 this year, not great but a steady improvement from when I started.

[dj181]

Best was 24:20 this year, not great but a steady improvement from when I started.

So that's an 8 minute per mile pace, not bad man And I can't imagine running a half marathon, 5 miles (8 k) is about the max that I can stand lol

[chunkramwell]

So that's an 8 minute per mile pace, not bad man And I can't imagine running a half marathon, 5 miles (8 k) is about the max that I can stand lol

Not bad for an old man!  I wouldn't do longer distances than six miles if I couldn't help it, I'm too stubborn and scotch, the registration costs the same for both races usually.

[1stkeepitreal]

no,,naturals lose their gains the fastest moment stop traiing,,natural at 180 with fast metabolizm will lose gains very fast into the 160s2-3 weeks,,

hormonized will lose more gains because he gained more gains...but his loss will be slower  due to blood having still hormones in it at higher levels,,


both will lose,,the homnized lifter will look much lelss impressive though after they lose their gains

gh15 approved

And I suppose you have some reference material to support this theory?

What the difference between a big fat nasty turd in the shitter and GH 15?

                                            -NOTHING-

[prof]

no,,naturals lose their gains the fastest moment stop traiing,,natural at 180 with fast metabolizm will lose gains very fast into the 160s2-3 weeks,,

hormonized will lose more gains because he gained more gains...but his loss will be slower  due to blood having still hormones in it at higher levels,,


both will lose,,the homnized lifter will look much lelss impressive though after they lose their gains

gh15 approved

This is just not true, not when you have years of natural lifting under your belt.

When you can train your body to maintain a certain amount of muscle mass without modulating hormone levels, it will tend to maintain that mass.   On the other hand, when you use hormones, you body is only used to maintaining that mass with different hormone levels than are natural.  So when you go off and stop lifting, you shrink like no tomorrow.

I have been lifting for over 10 years, always natural.  Sometimes, work prevents me from going to the gym for weeks or even months on rare occasion.   I obviously loose some muscle, but not that much.  Nor do I loose all that much strength.   And it comes back right away.  Why?  Because my body is used to naturally carrying a certain amount of muscle. 

[dj181]

This is just not true, not when you have years of natural lifting under your belt.

When you can train your body to maintain a certain amount of muscle mass without modulating hormone levels, it will tend to maintain that mass.   On the other hand, when you use hormones, you body is only used to maintaining that mass with different hormone levels than are natural.  So when you go off and stop lifting, you shrink like no tomorrow.

I have been lifting for over 10 years, always natural.  Sometimes, work prevents me from going to the gym for weeks or even months on rare occasion.   I obviously loose some muscle, but not that much.  Nor do I loose all that much strength.   And it comes back right away.  Why?  Because my body is used to naturally carrying a certain amount of muscle. 

That wasn't my experience as a lifetime natural. I would start losing my level of conditioning within 10 days or so of no training, and then by 3 weeks or so I'd be roughly the same bodyweight but with less muscle and more fat.

[Ex Coelis]

This is just not true, not when you have years of natural lifting under your belt.

I have been lifting for over 10 years, always natural.  Sometimes, work prevents me from going to the gym for weeks or even months on rare occasion.   I obviously loose some muscle, but not that much.  Nor do I loose all that much strength.   And it comes back right away.  Why?  Because my body is used to naturally carrying a certain amount of muscle. 

you are confusing fat for muscle

[Howard]

That wasn't my experience as a lifetime natural. I would start losing my level of conditioning within 10 days or so of no training, and then by 3 weeks or so I'd be roughly the same bodyweight but with less muscle and more fat.

Good post.
The problem is that many of the hardcore naysayers of drug free BB, have never been around hard working, gifted natural bodybuilders.
You can't make a good judgement on something you know very little about.

I have trained and competed useing a moderate amounts of drugs for a few yrs in the 80's and without any drugs for many years before and after that. At age 52, I am now on prescribed Androgel which keeps my testoserone levels in the "ideal range" as directed by my doctor.

I train now and will always train for MYSELF and the passion I have for feeling a great pump in the gym and seeing my body change when I diet right.

[gh15]

Good post.
The problem is that many of the hardcore naysayers of drug free BB, have never been around hard working, gifted natural bodybuilders.
You can't make a good judgement on something you know very little about.

I have trained and competed useing a moderate amounts of drugs for a few yrs in the 80's and without any drugs for many years before and after that. At age 52, I am now on prescribed Androgel which keeps my testoserone levels in the "ideal range" as directed by my doctor.

I train now and will always train for MYSELF and the passion I have for feeling a great pump in the gym and seeing my body change when I diet right.

every single time he come with this androgel sentence almost like its locked into his getbig sentences and he just attach it lol ,,hward stop with the balonie,, i trained many true naturals ,,they lose muscle like there is no tomorrow the moment they skip on meals and especialy moment they skip the gym for over 5 days lol they lose weight so fast its not even funny,,and if they dont they become soft and fatter,,the ones who fight it do not remain same bodyfat ,,they become skinny fat in record time ,,or just their good ole obese..ya know who im talkin about the 247 lb 5'11 fellas that have 24% bodyfat yet their arms look somewhat toned because they hodl some muscle there lol ,,you know exactly who im talking about ,,,no chest soft chest ,,,delts full of fat ,,,idsection of obese 260 lb woman ,,but the arms look decent and make them look 13% lol you know who they are lol ,,yes they are naturals but look what they look like lol

gh15 approved

[Bam-bam]

every single time he come with this androgel sentence almost like its locked into his getbig sentences and he just attach it lol ,,hward stop with the balonie,, i trained many true naturals ,,they lose muscle like there is no tomorrow the moment they skip on meals and especialy moment they skip the gym for over 5 days lol they lose weight so fast its not even funny,,and if they dont they become soft and fatter,,the ones who fight it do not remain same bodyfat ,,they become skinny fat in record time ,,or just their good ole obese..ya know who im talkin about the 247 lb 5'11 fellas that have 24% bodyfat yet their arms look somewhat toned because they hodl some muscle there lol ,,you know exactly who im talking about ,,,no chest soft chest ,,,delts full of fat ,,,idsection of obese 260 lb woman ,,but the arms look decent and make them look 13% lol you know who they are lol ,,yes they are naturals but look what they look like lol

gh15 approved

^^^^ this. Muscle is muscle and no its nor permanent, not permanent at all. If anything, steroids will help you hold size during a break from training or if you are suffering from a sickness. Also, the extra test helps you recover mass much more quickly too!

[dj181]

i trained many true naturals ,,they lose muscle like there is no tomorrow the moment they skip on meals and especialy moment they skip the gym for over 5 days

gh15 approved

After 5 days??? It's been awhile since I've been in decent condition, and I vaguely remember it being at around 10 days or so. But who knows, maybe I'm getting a little senile in my old age lol And in my case, I didn't really lose scale weight, I just worsened my body comp, due to keeping the calories jacked up while not training

[YngiweRhoads]

After 5 days??? It's been awhile since I've been in decent condition, and I vaguely remember it being at around 10 days or so. But who knows, maybe I'm getting a little senile in my old age lol And in my case, I didn't really lose scale weight, I just worsened my body comp, due to keeping the calories jacked up while not training

I followed Mentzer's routine in his second book for almost a year in the late 90's. That meant 4 workouts a month and I still gained muscle and strength. I did lead a very active lifestyle outside the gym mind you. I just became bored with it and never went back to it.

[Super Natural]

After a GREAT work out, when you busted your ass hard very hard, felt every muscle fiber pumped up from the rep one and increased they weight after each set..... dont you also get a impression that if you were on the sauce your improvements would be much much better and how in some way you just wasted a great training session?

I do, I mean the difference is ridiculous and even if you are actually still improving as a natural, chances are you would be getting a phenomenal physique if you were on as little as maintence doses. So there goes 80% of your "intensity" and "discipline" right to the garbage can!!

I was coming back from the gym today, feeling like shit because of a slight fever that made me almost puke during the back workout, and had this thought again. I really didnt want to start with the test and stuff again since Im still having gains but fuck it why not speed up things a little??

Also, the thread Stavios just started about Jose admiting how "it took  14 years to go from 154 to 176 and 2years to get to 202" just made me lol. 14 fuckin years to gain 20 fuckin pounds, and then suddently it took him MONHTS go add more 20lbs or so, talk about wasted time!! Seriously, training hard while being naturla is so lame, cant see other reason for that other than bragging you are clean to friends and on internet forums, in the end you can always tell a white lie and keep preaching your natural status or blame it on pro hormones .

Yeah, I guess you’d feel great while on but at some point you’ll have to come off.. and then you’re f*cked! back in a worse spot than when you began - with the hormonal profile of a girl scout, weeping at sunsets and how life sucks etc.…Not worth it!
I've got nothing against guys that use gear, have no moral issue with it. I've got friends that have gotten big time into it but they all seem to say the same  "when off gear training seems like a waste of time"
The whole scene always sounded in many aspects like Pandora’s box to me. I just question would it make me any happier..I don't think so, then what's the point? If you have aspirations to be a IFBB Pro like Jose then you have to make the decision to go that road..But otherwise I think you're adding way too much value to being temporarily jacked up. Good luck