Tom Prince "Anything over 1200mg per day is a waste"- AAS

[Chick]

 Bullshit. Let's see: testosterone, deca, Primobolan, Parabolan,, etc. All these drugs were introduced into the market in Europe in the late 1960s to early 1970s. Even more powerful drugs, like Anadrol and D-dol, have been available since the late 1950s. Anadrol was introduced in 1958! So according to you, the pros of that era took as much steroids as the ones today? So Boyer Coe, Frank Zane, Larry Scott, etc, were all taking up to 4,500 mg of testosterone a week, 1,400 mg of trenbolone and whole boxes of Hemogenin(Anadrol) a day? I am asking this because I lived in Brazil and knew top amateur bodybuilders there and they flat out told me this is the amount they take, and they are much smaller than American and European IFBB pros. Saying that the only reason why pros today are so much bigger is because they train smarter is ridiculous! You are pretty much being a PR for bodybuilding and parroting FLEX Magazine lines. These guys wouldn't step onstage at around 210 lbs like they did if they took this amount of drugs. Hell, horses given pellets of trenbolone gain up to 50% more lean muscle in less than a year without even working out!

WOW....you're so niave is laughable....

  Oh please, "pharma grade" is bullshit. A molecule is a molecule is a molecule. A molecule of testosterone in Sustanon is the same molecule in a vial of Reforvit for veterinarian applications. The only difference between pharmaceutical-grade steroids and those for veterinarian applications is sterility only!!!! Human preparations have less impurities than those for Veterinarian applications so as to avoid infections on Humans, but the molecule there is the same. What ignorance. You obviously don't know high school chemistry otherwise you would know that a molecule is a molecule.

No shit asshole...I wasnt even talking about Pharmaceuticle in comparison to Vetrenarian....I mentioned it in the context of its PURITY...as in...there was far less black market shit out there as it was easily attainable and cheap to boot...as opposed to todays watered down versions, underdosed, fake, etc...talk about ignorance

  Not a moral compass, but what they considered to be safe and effective. They went by the medical handbook back then for doses that were considered effective for anabolism, because steroids were prescribed by doctors and they could not prescribe more than a certain dose. Most pros didn't want to mess with the illegal market, so they went straight to the doctor and asked them to prescribe steroids for them. Arnold especifically said he had a doctor in SoCal that prescribed him his d-bol and Primobolan and he never had to turn to black market.

LOL....wow. Heres a newsflash for you champ...they went to the doctors so that they had a legal prescription as a safe guard...that and the fact that the DR's were on the take,  making money hand over fist prescribing steroids...you dont have a clue as to what youre talking about

  If these pros knew what modern bodybilders took they would be aghast and appalled. What they considered abuse is a joke compared to what modern pros take. I have seen a Brazilian National bodybuilding champion injecting 4 ampoules of Durateston at once(same syringe), and he told me he would do that another two times that week. That is 3,000 mg of testosterone, and these guys are much smaller than IFBB pros so just imagine what Olympia-level pros take.

Yeah...just imagine. youve unwittingly just made my case EVEN MORE with your Brazillian examples....morons taking ridiculous amounts, yet we see none of them at the Olympia stage....

  First of all, they were being facetious. Secondly, in their stories they never mention taking entire boxes of Hemogenin a day or up to a gram of test in one day. Not even close to that.

Better do some research as to what they used...you're showing your ignorance once again....Grymkowski was an actual TEST SUBJECT at The University of Rochester back in the 70's...

  They took what their doctors prescribed them, and the doctors went by the medical handbook for doses. That is, 200 mg of Deca a week for weight gain/anabolism purposes. 20 mg of d-bol a day for 4 weeks on, 2 weeks off cycle. Those were the doses of the 1970s. Back then, bodybuilders still believed that big muscles came from training and that drugs were only to help with recovery. The modern idea that drugs do the real job of muscle-building and that the training is just a catalyst started in the late 1980s.

Bwahahahahahahahah......

  True.

  That is true, but it is besides the point. I am talking about the mentality of the pros of that era compared to the ones of today and not about training effectiveness. The bottom line is that they believed that training was the most important thing for muscle gains and that steroids were just a compliment. That is the opposite of modern pros, who believe that drugs are the most important thing for muscle gains and that training is a secondary consideration. Modern pros give a lot more attention and importance to their drug cycles than to their training. This is the opposite of 1960s and 1970s pros for whom training was the most important consideration.

Riiiiight....you keep telling yourself that

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[DK II]

Damn, SMM is so stupid that even Chick can own him.


Congratulations, Bob, that was a good post.

[WillGrant]

  Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha...fuckwit. Ok, so Arnold took 500 mg of D-bol a day, 10 grams of test a week and over a gram of Parabolan, and yet his heaviest competition weight ever was 237 lbs at close to 6'2 tall. Great logic there, idiot.

Why bring up weight ? he was huge - he used a shit load more than 30mg of dball a day - an amp of primo is nothing - try an amp a day.

Theres an interview with him in a 81 M & F where he talks about making a huge fuck up before getting on the plane to go to OZ - he didnt stop his Abombs and when he landed in OZ the water from the trip plus the A-50s had him holding water like a pregnant mother , as time progressed the water started to drop but he couldnt get it off his lower limbs,so he spent the whole night prior in the hotel room doing star jumps running on the spot sit ups etc etc to try and drop it and he got no sleep - so genious that was from his own mouth told in an interview which pretty much blows your shit theory out of the water , if he was using a50 you can bet your bottom doller he was using a fuck load more stuff previous to that..

Primo was his favoured pre contest drug at an amp a day = 700mg a week.

You do not know wtf you are talking about re: drugs , the other day you were claiming all they took was an amp a day of sus - hahaha you are nuts - you are not Bluto are you ?

[DK II]

Why bring up weight ? he was huge - he used a shit load more than 30mg of dball a day - an amp of primo is nothing - try an amp a day.

Theres an interview with him in a 81 M & F where he talks about making a huge fuck up before getting on the plane to go to OZ - he didnt stop his Abombs and when he landed in OZ the water from the trip plus the A-50s had him holding water like a pregnant mother , as time progressed the water started to drop but he couldnt get it off his lower limbs,so he spent the whole night prior in the hotel room doing star jumps running on the spot sit ups etc etc to try and drop it and he got no sleep - so genious that was from his own mouth told in an interview which pretty much blows your shit theory out of the water , if he was using a50 you can bet your bottom doller he was using a fuck load more stuff previous to that..

Primo was his favoured pre contest drug at an amp a day = 700mg a week.

You do not know wtf you are talking about re: drugs , the other day you were claiming all they took was an amp a day of sus - hahaha you are nuts - you are not Bluto are you ?

haahaha, even Bluto wasn't that delusional.

[MindSpin]

  Bullshit. Let's see: testosterone, deca, Primobolan, Parabolan,, etc. All these drugs were introduced into the market in Europe in the late 1960s to early 1970s. Even more powerful drugs, like Anadrol and D-dol, have been available since the late 1950s. Anadrol was introduced in 1958! So according to you, the pros of that era took as much steroids as the ones today? So Boyer Coe, Frank Zane, Larry Scott, etc, were all taking up to 4,500 mg of testosterone a week, 1,400 mg of trenbolone and whole boxes of Hemogenin(Anadrol) a day? I am asking this because I lived in Brazil and knew top amateur bodybuilders there and they flat out told me this is the amount they take, and they are much smaller than American and European IFBB pros. Saying that the only reason why pros today are so much bigger is because they train smarter is ridiculous! You are pretty much being a PR for bodybuilding and parroting FLEX Magazine lines. These guys wouldn't step onstage at around 210 lbs like they did if they took this amount of drugs. Hell, horses given pellets of trenbolone gain up to 50% more lean muscle in less than a year without even working out!

  Oh please, "pharma grade" is bullshit. A molecule is a molecule is a molecule. A molecule of testosterone in Sustanon is the same molecule in a vial of Reforvit for veterinarian applications. The only difference between pharmaceutical-grade steroids and those for veterinarian applications is sterility only!!!! Human preparations have less impurities than those for Veterinarian applications so as to avoid infections on Humans, but the molecule there is the same. What ignorance. You obviously don't know high school chemistry otherwise you would know that a molecule is a molecule.

  Not a moral compass, but what they considered to be safe and effective. They went by the medical handbook back then for doses that were considered effective for anabolism, because steroids were prescribed by doctors and they could not prescribe more than a certain dose. Most pros didn't want to mess with the illegal market, so they went straight to the doctor and asked them to prescribe steroids for them. Arnold especifically said he had a doctor in SoCal that prescribed him his d-bol and Primobolan and he never had to turn to black market.

  If these pros knew what modern bodybilders took they would be aghast and appalled. What they considered abuse is a joke compared to what modern pros take. I have seen a Brazilian National bodybuilding champion injecting 4 ampoules of Durateston at once(same syringe), and he told me he would do that another two times that week. That is 3,000 mg of testosterone, and these guys are much smaller than IFBB pros so just imagine what Olympia-level pros take.

  First of all, they were being facetious. Secondly, in their stories they never mention taking entire boxes of Hemogenin a day or up to a gram of test in one day. Not even close to that.

  They took what their doctors prescribed them, and the doctors went by the medical handbook for doses. That is, 200 mg of Deca a week for weight gain/anabolism purposes. 20 mg of d-bol a day for 4 weeks on, 2 weeks off cycle. Those were the doses of the 1970s. Back then, bodybuilders still believed that big muscles came from training and that drugs were only to help with recovery. The modern idea that drugs do the real job of muscle-building and that the training is just a catalyst started in the late 1980s.

  True.

  That is true, but it is besides the point. I am talking about the mentality of the pros of that era compared to the ones of today and not about training effectiveness. The bottom line is that they believed that training was the most important thing for muscle gains and that steroids were just a compliment. That is the opposite of modern pros, who believe that drugs are the most important thing for muscle gains and that training is a secondary consideration. Modern pros give a lot more attention and importance to their drug cycles than to their training. This is the opposite of 1960s and 1970s pros for whom training was the most important consideration.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

Lol. You're a dilusional quiff with way too much time on your hands...lol.

[suckmymuscle]

WOW....you're so niave is laughable....

  Wow, brilliant refutation to my points right there. Einstein is jealous of your wit and
insight.

No shit asshole...I wasnt even talking about Pharmaceuticle in comparison to Vetrenarian....I mentioned it in the context of its PURITY...as in...there was far less black market shit out there as it was easily attainable and cheap to boot...as opposed to todays watered down versions, underdosed, fake, etc...talk about ignorance

  Steroids are either fake or real, you fucking retard. Black market steroids that are real are just as good as those prescribed dy doctors. If a steroid from China or India says 200 mg on the cover and they are not fake, they will contain the same amount of the exact same substance as the more expensive American version that also says 200 mg. "Pharmaceutical grade" is bullshit. It is one of those lyman expressions that don't mean shit. Go ask a chemist or a pharmacist if there is such a thing as pharmaceutical-grade testosterone and shitty testosterone.

LOL....wow. Heres a newsflash for you champ...they went to the doctors so that they had a legal prescription as a safe guard...that and the fact that the DR's were on the take,  making money hand over fist prescribing steroids...you dont have a clue as to what youre talking about

  Yeah, because if a pro is caught with 100 ampoules of Sustanon, his prescription for one or two ampoules will free him of trouble with the law. For fuck sake, man, you are too dumb even for a pro bodybuilder.

Yeah...just imagine. youve unwittingly just made my case EVEN MORE with your Brazillian examples....morons taking ridiculous amounts, yet we see none of them at the Olympia stage....

  Yes, because the Olympia pros who are much bigger than them are taking less than them. Yes, because it is them pushing harder on those sets of cable pullovers and pec deck flyes that is allowing them to be much bigger than the bodybuilders I mentioned with much lower doses of drugs. For fuck sake, are you serious with this shit or are you thin stupid?

Better do some research as to what they used...you're showing your ignorance once again....Grymkowski was an actual TEST SUBJECT at The University of Rochester back in the 70's...

  Yeah, and a test subject at an university would be given more steroids than what modern pros take. I mean, it's not like university studiies protocols have to follow the law or anything. Chick, you truly are the living embodiment of the stereotype of the bodybuilder, you know? Could you be more of a musclehead? Oh yeah, wait, you were never very good at building muscles either.

Bwahahahahahahahah......

  Retards love to laugh for no reasons...

Riiiiight....you keep telling yourself that

  You keep telling yourself that the modern 280 lbs pros take less drugs than those pros from the 1970s who competed at 210 lbs. You are either a cynical liar or stupid. Probably both.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[suckmymuscle]

Damn, SMM is so stupid that even Chick can own him.


Congratulations, Bob, that was a good post.

  You are so spiteful and also childish. Like an adult toddler. Always seeking internet revenge like a retard.

  Hey, Donkey, how are your efforts to demod me going? You are one to talk of being stupid. LOLOLOLOLOL.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[DK II]

  You are so spiteful and also childish. Like an adult toddler. Always seeking internet revenge like a retard.

  Hey, Donkey, how are your efforts to demod me going? You are one to talk of being stupid. LOLOLOLOLOL.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

 

[suckmymuscle]

 

  Keep rolling your eyes, because that is the only reply you've got. Face it: you got owned kid.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[che]

  You keep telling yourself that the modern 280 lbs pros take less drugs than those pros from the 1970s who competed at 210 lbs. You are either a cynical liar or stupid. Probably both.

I have to agree with SMM here.

[DK II]

  Keep rolling your eyes, because that is the only reply you've got. Face it: you got owned kid.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[suckmymuscle]

  Cry more!!!! Cry more!!!! Cry more!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Cry mooooooooooooooore!!!!!!

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[DK II]

  Cry more!!!! Cry more!!!! Cry more!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Cry mooooooooooooooore!!!!!!

SUCKMYMUSCLE

Is that a meltdown?

[BB]

Just as an aside, the average dosing for Track and Field athletes and Footballers during the 70's was around 1000mg to 1500mg/wk of assorted steriods for the most part, with some going much higher(Ken Patera once joking said something to the affect of the only thing keeping him from winning the Olympics was that he couldn't afford his pharmacy bill). One has to think that bodybuilders were doing the same if not more during that time given the nature of the hobby. Also while I do agree that Bodybuilders have upped the dose quite a bit, I think that doesn't make that much difference as the discovery of Insulin and Gh, and the synergistic effect of all 3 drugs together. People didn't have a handle on how to effectively use them till relatively recently. I'd venture to guess that adds another #30-40 pounds on to the pros of today.

90% of the old timers lie, they just don't want to admit things that might make their accompishment's seem less worthy to a modern eye.

[suckmymuscle]

My goodness-less any other getbiggers think there is any validity to what you are saying- firstly Sustenon is TESTOSTERONE while Reforvit-B (notice the B) is a liquid dianabol/vitamin B combination.

  And how does this change the validity of anything I've said? I just used that as an example, retard. Has it occured to you that I could have used google and typed "veterinay testosterone" and easily gotten the name of several testosterone veterinary drugs? I said Reforvit because it was the first name that came to my mind, and I didn't even bother checking whether that was testosterone or not. That does not change the validity of any of the points I've made. As for me not knowing anything about steroids, trust me, I have taken everything you can imagine and I know more of the pharmacology than your "bro science" hero, GH15, could dream of. But keep worshipping at his dick. You and Donkey are the two biggest GH15 bitches in this board.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[Chick]

 Wow, brilliant refutation to my points right there. Einstein is jealous of your wit and
insight.

  Steroids are either fake or real, you fucking retard. Black market steroids that are real are just as good as those prescribed dy doctors. If a steroid from China or India says 200 mg on the cover and they are not fake, they will contain the same amount of the exact same substance as the more expensive American version that also says 200 mg. "Pharmaceutical grade" is bullshit. It is one of those lyman expressions that don't mean shit. Go ask a chemist or a pharmacist if there is such a thing as pharmaceutical-grade testosterone and shitty testosterone.

LOL...really? I didnt know we could count on some shit being mixed up in some retards basement to be dead on the money...blackmarket test which is underdosed and mixed with linseed oil containing 50 mg. but label says 200 mg.  real or fake?

  Yeah, because if a pro is caught with 100 ampoules of Sustanon, his prescription for one or two ampoules will free him of trouble with the law. For fuck sake, man, you are too dumb even for a pro bodybuilder.

Again...youre talking out of your ass...the Dr.s would write pretty much unlimited RX, as they were making money on them, and they didnt have to answer to anyone back then...After 91 that changed.

  Yes, because the Olympia pros who are much bigger than them are taking less than them. Yes, because it is them pushing harder on those sets of cable pullovers and pec deck flyes that is allowing them to be much bigger than the bodybuilders I mentioned with much lower doses of drugs. For fuck sake, are you serious with this shit or are you thin stupid?

The Olympia pros have a much better genetic response to the same amount of shit...thought that was pretty much a given....to those who arent mentally challenged

  Yeah, and a test subject at an university would be given more steroids than what modern pros take. I mean, it's not like university studiies protocols have to follow the law or anything. Chick, you truly are the living embodiment of the stereotype of the bodybuilder, you know? Could you be more of a musclehead? Oh yeah, wait, you were never very good at building muscles either.

Gyrmko took truckloads of steroids...point again being that they (as a whole) took far more back then then your naive little ass believes...you're the only fool here that actually believes that Basile really only took "2 DBol a day for a few weeks..." LOL

  Retards love to laugh for no reasons...

Yeah....anyway...since youve proven yourself to pretty much believe anything...I've got a lotterty ticket I'm waiting on, but I need your bank account number to be able to process it, I'll cut you in on it...
 

  You keep telling yourself that the modern 280 lbs pros take less drugs than those pros from the 1970s who competed at 210 lbs. You are either a cynical liar or stupid. Probably both.

I never said they take less, I said the 70's guys took just as much as those of today...of what they had access to.  Had GH, IGF, Insulin, etc been around back then, they would have been 30 lbs heavier....Just as those guys in the 70's were 20 plus pounds heavier than those in the 50's

SUCKMYMUSCLE

Keep living in Fantasyland kid....sure beats reality, I guess.

[suckmymuscle]

  All the things you mentioned were so retarded and nonsensical that they are not even worth addressing. I am actually embarassed for you. I will address the one point that isn't completely idiotic - although wrong, nevertheless.

The Olympia pros have a much better genetic response to the same amount of shit...thought that was pretty much a given....to those who arent mentally challenged

  I don't know if you are aware of this, you stupid baboon, but with the exception of Cutler, who has relatively big bones, the typical pro who competes at the Olympia is an ectomorph with thin bones and muscles. Have you ever seen pictures of what these guys looked like before they took up bodybuilding? There are hundreds of big boned guys with naturally thick muscles who take over 2,000 mg of test a week and are never even 250 lbs ripped, and yet you proclaim that all those naturally frail pros who are 280 lbs at single-digit bodyfat take less or just as much as these guys take. Let me ask you a question: does the IFBB know that your roam internet boards boldly lying

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[Chick]

  All the things you mentioned were so retarded and nonsensical that they are not even worth addressing. I am actually embarassed for you. I will address the one point that isn't completely idiotic - although wrong, nevertheless.

  I don't know if you are aware of this, you stupid baboon, but with the exception of Cutler, who has relatively big bones, the typical pro who competes at the Olympia is an ectomorph with thin bones and muscles. Have you ever seen pictures of what these guys looked like before they took up bodybuilding? There are hundreds of big boned guys with naturally thick muscles who take over 2,000 mg of test a week and are never even 250 lbs ripped, and yet you proclaim that all those naturally frail pros who are 280 lbs at single-digit bodyfat take less or just as much as these guys take. Let me ask you a question: does the IFBB know that your roam internet boards boldly lying

SUCKMYMUSCLE

Yeah...I've seen plenty of pics from brfore they were BBers...most of us were under 13 in those pics. Funny thing is...in almost ALL the pics of the pros, its apparent that we all had a great response to just training, as evidenced by the development at such a young age...without any gear.

The rest of your babble is just that...non sensicle rambling, trying to dig yourself out of the hole you dug with your initial naive comments.

If you want to believe that all the pros of the 70's had some thing that prevented them from taking more than 1200 mg./ week, despite having them at their disposal, cheap prices, etc...then so be it. 

You may to look up the name Tim Belknap in your spare time (you seem t have lots of it)....strangely enough, a BB who WAS taking Insulin at the time (Early 80's) who just HAPPEN to have a physique more akin to modern BBers...I'm sure it was just a coincidence though

You think Zane was nicknamed The Chemist because he used moderate dosages of steroids? LOL... Fortunately, I know many of the the 70/ 80's pro's personally, and have had MANY conversations over the years about this very subject...while you seem to know two things...JACK and SHIT

Please...keep posting in the subject...it's entertainment for everyone.

[Chick]

Wha?....wait a minute. Here's a pic of Tim Belknap....INSULIN using Tim Belknap from back in the early 80's.

Strangely enough....you cant really tell if he's in 1981, or getting ready for the NY Pro...

Aint that something....?

[Maldoror]

Chick gets it. Insulin, HGH, and SEO are responsible for the 'look' of the modern bodybuilder. Steroid doses have ALWAYS been high.

SMM is a fraud & a disgrace.

[Viking11]

How many here have taken over 1200 mg a week?  I did  it once (mostly test- huge mistake )- was totally waterlogged for the next week, so much so, every cut dissappeared.  Had a hell of a time dropping the water and honestly didnt quite do it. Under that amount , much less but still some.  Based only on this I have to agree with Prince. Mentzer alos told me he was more refined on contest day if he kept the doasges in the recommended range- noone does that now.lol.

[Chick]

How many here have taken over 1200 mg a week?  I did  it once (mostly test- huge mistake )- was totally waterlogged for the next week, so much so, every cut dissappeared.  Had a hell of a time dropping the water and honestly didnt quite do it. Under that amount , much less but still some.  Based only on this I have to agree with Prince. Mentzer alos told me he was more refined on contest day if he kept the doasges in the recommended range- noone does that now.lol.

Lots of people do that now...especially the pro's who have "been there and done that"...

TP experimented with higher dosages, thus his opinion that anything OVER 1200, is a complete waste.  If BBers got beter results at higher dosages, then they would certainly be taking them. 

AMATEURS and those genetically challenged, are the ones that take the most...believing that big dosages are the great equalizer....they arent.

Your senario is spot on....unfortunately, people like SMM arent intelligent enough to understand it.

[Maldoror]

How many here have taken over 1200 mg a week?  I did  it once (mostly test- huge mistake )- was totally waterlogged for the next week, so much so, every cut dissappeared.  Had a hell of a time dropping the water and honestly didnt quite do it. Under that amount , much less but still some.  Based only on this I have to agree with Prince. Mentzer alos told me he was more refined on contest day if he kept the doasges in the recommended range- noone does that now.lol.

I've taken as much as 1800mg/week (test/deca) with no ill effects, and growth was never better. I'm much more inclined to believe that Tom Prince meant 1200mg/DAY.

[lesaucer]

How many here have taken over 1200 mg a week?  I did  it once (mostly test- huge mistake )- was totally waterlogged for the next week, so much so, every cut dissappeared.  Had a hell of a time dropping the water and honestly didnt quite do it. Under that amount , much less but still some.  Based only on this I have to agree with Prince. Mentzer alos told me he was more refined on contest day if he kept the doasges in the recommended range- noone does that now.lol.

i did 1500mg test with 900mg deca and honestly, in term of muscle gain, it was not really different than when i did 750mg test with 350mg tren. i was heavier and stronger but that was only because i ate like a strongman and put some fat on. gear is no different than any other medecine, you can take a bit more than the effective dosage range and gain more, but past a certain point, all you get is more sides

[Chick]

I've taken as much as 1800mg/week (test/deca) with no ill effects, and growth was never better. I'm much more inclined to believe that Tom Prince meant 1200mg/DAY.

Its not an exact science bro...nor is there an exact number...I'm sure you did well on that dose....but would you have done just as well at 1000 or 1200?  That is the question...and that was what TP was trying to get accross....that he had done more as well, and didnt feel the ROI was any better.