Is this True - For the God botherers!

[Radical Plato]

Our universe doesn’t appear to have been created by God, it appears to have been a natural consequence of events in the underlying reality. A reality so vast and energetic it has created and will create an infinite number of universes. And science is on the verge of proving this. And no God or other supernatural being is needed to explain any of this. I mean, if God exists, he created a reality that has infinite energy and will create all possible universes and has always been here and always will be here. Clever trick, but there’s no longer anything to explain. “Reality contains infinite energy, exists forever, and creates all possibilities” pretty much covers all possible contingencies.

[Butterbean]

. And science is on the verge of proving this.

Do you have a theory name or link that represents your views to share?


What are your thoughts on from where the first matter/energy/etc came?

[Cliff Clavin]

What are your thoughts on from where the first matter/energy/etc came?

were did the thing that created the first matter/energy/ect come from......was it always in existence?

[Butterbean]

were did the thing that created the first matter/energy/ect come from......was it always in existence?

If you mean God, yes I believe He was always in existence.

[Cliff Clavin]

If you mean God, yes I believe He was always in existence.

so there has to be a creator for the universe..but the most powerful/complex being ever needs no creator?...

[Butterbean]

so there has to be a creator for the universe..but the most powerful/complex being ever needs no creator?...

Yes, I believe God is eternal...no beginning, no end.

What are your thoughts on the beginning of the universe?  Or do you feel it's always been?

[Cliff Clavin]

Yes, I believe God is eternal...no beginning, no end.

What are your thoughts on the beginning of the universe?  Or do you feel it's always been?

i dont care how the universe started..it has no bearing on my life...

[Man of Steel]

What's a God botherer?  Someone that doesn't bother with God?

[Butterbean]

What's a God botherer?  Someone that doesn't bother with God?

Maybe he means people that do "bother" w/God?

[Deicide]

I have to admit that I envy believers their belief sometimes; it makes life more bearable. I simply (for genetic or some other reason) cannot believe in that sort of stuff. Some people are made such that they cannot believe.

[Man of Steel]

I have to admit that I envy believers their belief sometimes; it makes life more bearable. I simply (for genetic or some other reason) cannot believe in that sort of stuff. Some people are made such that they cannot believe.

I do get what you're saying.  My best friend can't come to terms and fully belief despite the change he's clearly witnessed in me (no credit for that change is because of me though).  I strayed from my faith for a number of years.  I never fully left it, but I certainly wasn't engaged in it.  I had many doubts, questioned numerous things and acted a fool, but when I fully surrendered to the will of God the veil was lifted.  There's nothing like being broken down to the ground with no  where on Earth to turn for real help and then you reach out to Christ and BAM.....he answers.  I regret those lost years where I strayed away.  I hope others that don't know Christ outside of an academic perspective can come to know him personally.  

Last night my wife and daughter and I went to the hospital my grandmother was taken to last night (she fainted and is quite old) and while visiting her I passed by the ER trauma room that I was in last August.  My family asked me if it was hard being here and you know what it wasn't.  Despite my grandmother receiving treatment there currently, the hospital was the place that Christ reentered my life with a bang....a place where I experienced miraculous healing and the awesome love and power of God.  Despite my intensive care stay there (and my grandmother's current stay) that hospital is a symbol of joy and happiness for me.

[Deicide]

I do get what you're saying.  My best friend can't come to terms and fully belief despite the change he's clearly witnessed in me (no credit for that change is because of me though).  I strayed from my faith for a number of years.  I never fully left it, but I certainly wasn't engaged in it.  I had many doubts, questioned numerous things and acted a fool, but when I fully surrendered to the will of God the veil was lifted.  There's nothing like being broken down to the ground with no  where on Earth to turn for real help and then you reach out to Christ and BAM.....he answers.  I regret those lost years where I strayed away.  I hope others that don't know Christ outside of an academic perspective can come to know him personally.  

Last night my wife and daughter and I went to the hospital my grandmother was taken to last night (she fainted and is quite old) and while visiting her I passed by the ER trauma room that I was in last August.  My family asked me if it was hard being here and you know what it wasn't.  Despite my grandmother receiving treatment there currently, the hospital was the place that Christ reentered my life with a bang....a place where I experienced miraculous healing and the awesome love and power of God.  Despite my intensive care stay there (and my grandmother's current stay) that hospital is a symbol of joy and happiness for me.

I don't understand anything of what you are saying but you are fortunate in some way to have this 'faith'. I will never have it.

[Man of Steel]

I don't understand anything of what you are saying but you are fortunate in some to have this 'faith'. I will never have it.

And that's cool, I don't expect you to understand it at my level....that situation was very personal to me alone.  Certainly you grasp my words and that's good enough.  Just know that the impossible is made possible with God and that he loves you with a love that can't be measured.  My wife and daughter are the most precious things in the world to me and I love them with everything in me, but God's love for them is so much greater than anything I can imagine...that blows my mind!

[Deicide]

And that's cool, I don't expect you to understand it at my level....that situation was very personal to me alone.  Certainly you grasp my words and that's good enough.  Just know that the impossible is made possible with God and that he loves you with a love that can't be measured.  My wife and daughter are the most precious things in the world to me and I love them with everything in me, but God's love for them is so much greater than anything I can imagine...that blows my mind!

Clearly religion is an immense psychological aid.

[Man of Steel]

Clearly religion is an immense psychological aid.

Perhaps, but I was talkin about Jesus Christ and salvation therein.  Now, do I lean on Christ for help and guidance.....you bet!

[Deicide]

Perhaps, but I was talkin about Jesus Christ and salvation therein.  Now, do I lean on Christ for help and guidance.....you bet!

So, you're a really big guy. What kind of weight do you push? I am sure they are very impressive numbers (no sarcasm, just honest curiosity).

[Cliff Clavin]

I have to admit that I envy believers their belief sometimes; it makes life more bearable. I simply (for genetic or some other reason) cannot believe in that sort of stuff. Some people are made such that they cannot believe.

I'm the same way only i don't envy them just feel sorry for them...Could you imagine dedicating your whole being to something that doesn't exist...Yea it would be great if there was this invisible fairy in the sky that if you worshiped you could spend eternity with your loved ones in paradise...however...tha t's something man created in there heads to make themselves feel better about there mortality...the weak use it as a crutch...only there so blinded by there "faith" they cant see it...my heart wishes these fairy tales of everlasting life were true...but fortunately I have a brain capable of reasonable thought that hasn't been indoctrinated into believing such fables...

[Deicide]

I'm the same way only i don't envy them just feel sorry for them...Could you imagine dedicating your whole being to something that doesn't exist...Yea it would be great if there was this invisible fairy in the sky that if you worshiped you could spend eternity with your loved ones in paradise...however...tha t's something man created in there heads to make themselves feel better about there mortality...the weak use it as a crutch...only there so blinded by there "faith" they cant see it...my heart wishes these fairy tales of everlasting life were true...but fortunately I have a brain capable of reasonable thought that hasn't been indoctrinated into believing such fables...

They believe it is real and thus it is fulfilling to them.

[Man of Steel]

I'm the same way only i don't envy them just feel sorry for them...Could you imagine dedicating your whole being to something that doesn't exist...Yea it would be great if there was this invisible fairy in the sky that if you worshiped you could spend eternity with your loved ones in paradise...however...tha t's something man created in there heads to make themselves feel better about there mortality...the weak use it as a crutch...only there so blinded by there "faith" they cant see it...my heart wishes these fairy tales of everlasting life were true...but fortunately I have a brain capable of reasonable thought that hasn't been indoctrinated into believing such fables...

How bout you consider leaving the insults out of the equation?  It's fine if you disagree.  Would I love for you to come to know Christ?  Absolutely.  Will I put you down if you don't?  Absolutely not. 

[Man of Steel]

So, you're a really big guy. What kind of weight do you push? I am sure they are very impressive numbers (no sarcasm, just honest curiosity).

Best numbers are benched 485lbs x 3; 800lb hack squats for a few reps; lying tricep extensions with 260lbs for a few reps; hammer curls with 100+ lb dbs for a few reps; bent over rows with 405lbs for a few reps; 300+ lb shoulder presses....these are some of my best numbers.  Today I can still bench 400lbs.  Arms are still crazy strong, but I don't get as crazy LOL....occassionally curl with 90lb dbs and tricep extensions with 225lbs....still real heavy for me.  Calves I can lift a ton of weight.  Hams I'd always use the stack on machines, but never did a lot of stiff-legged deads (never went over 315lbs).  Lateral raises I'll go up to 85lb dbs and front raises I'll go up to 90lb dbs still.....real strong with my arms.  Now I'm just trying to get healthy again and rehab my leg....I'll get there in time. 

[Deicide]

Best numbers are benched 485lbs x 3; 800lb hack squats for a few reps; lying tricep extensions with 260lbs for a few reps; hammer curls with 100+ lb dbs for a few reps; bent over rows with 405lbs for a few reps; 300+ lb shoulder presses....these are some of my best numbers.  Today I can still bench 400lbs.  Arms are still crazy strong, but I don't get as crazy LOL....occassionally curl with 90lb dbs and tricep extensions with 225lbs....still real heavy for me.  Calves I can lift a ton of weight.  Hams I'd always use the stack on machines, but never did a lot of stiff-legged deads (never went over 315lbs).  Lateral raises I'll go up to 85lb dbs and front raises I'll go up to 90lb dbs still.....real strong with my arms.  Now I'm just trying to get healthy again and rehab my leg....I'll get there in time. 

Those weights would crush my puny body. Very impressive!

[mitchyboy]

Was just talking about this with my friend. God, in the Judah christian sense is infinite power. It even says in the bible he is dinamic energy.
The universe and all matter therein is dinamic energy and infinite. In other words matter cannot be destroyed only converted to energy.
It is always there and always will be. Even when the sun burns out ''God'' will refuel it correct? So whos to say that all energy and therefore the universe, hasnt always existed in one form or another. That sounds weird even to me an athiest, but when u say god has always existed it sounds less weird. Thats just my christian upbringing talking though lol.
 I still think the nail in the coffin to this argument is complexity needs a designer. God is x1000000 times more complex then anything we know.
 So by your own logic, god needs a designer also. If he doesnt then he is less complex then what we already know, and therefore not worthy of worship.

[Man of Steel]

Was just talking about this with my friend. God, in the Judah christian sense is infinite power. It even says in the bible he is dinamic energy.
The universe and all matter therein is dinamic energy and infinite. In other words matter cannot be destroyed only converted to energy.
It is always there and always will be. Even when the sun burns out ''God'' will refuel it correct? So whos to say that all energy and therefore the universe, hasnt always existed in one form or another. That sounds weird even to me an athiest, but when u say god has always existed it sounds less weird. Thats just my christian upbringing talking though lol.
 I still think the nail in the coffin to this argument is complexity needs a designer. God is x1000000 times more complex then anything we know.
 So by your own logic, god needs a designer also. If he doesnt then he is less complex then what we already know, and therefore not worthy of worship.

When you humanize God then he becomes irrelevant and/or unworthy of worship.  If the all-powerful, timeless, divine qualities of God are humanized and/or removed you no longer have a god.  Putting God in a box and/or removing varying qualities of who God is will always change the equation.  Take one hydrogen away from a H2O and you no longer have water.    

[Butterbean]

It even says in the bible he is dinamic energy.

Mitchy, can you please post the scripture you're referring to here?

 I still think the nail in the coffin to this argument is complexity needs a designer. God is x1000000 times more complex then anything we know.
 So by your own logic, god needs a designer also. If he doesnt then he is less complex then what we already know, and therefore not worthy of worship.

I think I missed who you are quoting when you say "by your own logic, God needs a designer [because he is more complex than anything we know]."

Can you please steer me to that quote or idea because I don't see the connection that He needs a designer.

[Cliff Clavin]

I think I missed who you are quoting when you say "by your own logic, God needs a designer [because he is more complex than anything we know]."

Can you please steer me to that quote or idea because I don't see the connection that He needs a designer.

It means u cant see how the universe exists without a creator yet u easily surmise that god needs no creator...It's a common irrational way of thinking used by the indoctrinated to feebly justify there dogma...It falls quit flat on educated ears..