Author Topic: Is this True - For the God botherers!  (Read 5307 times)

mitchyboy

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Re: Is this True - For the God botherers!
« Reply #25 on: June 18, 2011, 10:03:59 PM »
It means u cant see how the universe exists without a creator yet u easily surmise that god needs no creator...It's a common irrational way of thinking used by the indoctrinated to feebly justify there dogma...It falls quit flat on educated ears..

Very eloquently put, thank you cliff :)

I have given up that part of my life stella, and will no longer waste my time looking up deluded, inacurate and un sientific works of fiction. But for you I will make an exception lol. Let me see if I can find it. I was brought up useing the new world translation by the Jehovahs witnesses. So things may be a little different then what is in say King James.

mitchyboy

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Re: Is this True - For the God botherers!
« Reply #26 on: June 18, 2011, 10:25:07 PM »
 Isaiah 40: 25,26 But to whom can you people liken me, so thatI should be made his equal? says the Holy One. 26, Raise your eyes high up and see.Who has created these things? It is the One who is bringing forth the army of them even by number, all of whom He calls even by name. Due to the ubundance of dynamic energy,he also being vigorous in power, not one of them is missing.

I do see here its talking about gods power, and of the stars wink wink lol.But the abundance of energy would be in God or a part of him, call it his life force if you will.
Also when you look at the context of surronding scripture, it reafirms god is dynamic energy without saying it outright.
It goes on to say, He does not tire out, He does not grow weary. He can give to true belivers dynamic energy, so that they will mount up with wings like eagles.
 I just was using this as an example of how one could make the leap to if gad is energy, and everything we know in the universe is energy, then theoreticaly, the universe could have always existed, because God always existed. I would be interested to know what your translation says in this same scripture.

probound2

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Re: Is this True - For the God botherers!
« Reply #27 on: July 20, 2011, 04:43:25 PM »

only there so blinded by there "faith" they cant see it...my heart wishes these fairy tales of everlasting life were true...but fortunately I have a brain capable of reasonable thought that hasn't been indoctrinated into believing such fables...


Out of curiosity, how can you put so much "faith" in your brain, when it's been proven scientifically that we don't even come close to using it's full capacity? Do you think it's possible that you may have missed something?

Butterbean

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Re: Is this True - For the God botherers!
« Reply #28 on: July 31, 2011, 12:20:18 PM »
Isaiah 40: 25,26 But to whom can you people liken me, so thatI should be made his equal? says the Holy One. 26, Raise your eyes high up and see.Who has created these things? It is the One who is bringing forth the army of them even by number, all of whom He calls even by name. Due to the ubundance of dynamic energy,he also being vigorous in power, not one of them is missing.

I do see here its talking about gods power, and of the stars wink wink lol.But the abundance of energy would be in God or a part of him, call it his life force if you will.
Also when you look at the context of surronding scripture, it reafirms god is dynamic energy without saying it outright.
It goes on to say, He does not tire out, He does not grow weary. He can give to true belivers dynamic energy, so that they will mount up with wings like eagles.
 I just was using this as an example of how one could make the leap to if gad is energy, and everything we know in the universe is energy, then theoreticaly, the universe could have always existed, because God always existed. Butterbean you are stella right lol? I would be interested to know what your translation says in this same scripture.


Here are the verses in the NIV
25 “To whom will you compare me?
   Or who is my equal?” says the Holy One.
26 Lift up your eyes and look to the heavens:
   Who created all these?
He who brings out the starry host one by one
   and calls forth each of them by name.
Because of his great power and mighty strength,
   not one of them is missing.



Out of curiosity, how can you put so much "faith" in your brain, when it's been proven scientifically that we don't even come close to using it's full capacity? Do you think it's possible that you may have missed something?

This is a good point.  Plus, we deal w/misinformation, changing our opinions/what we accept as true etc.

R

mitchyboy

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Re: Is this True - For the God botherers!
« Reply #29 on: July 31, 2011, 09:23:59 PM »
Thanks babe. I never realy liked the interlinear. Seems like a dumbed down vers. to me. Seems to lose soom of the oomph, if u know what i mean. I do have great respect for the Bible, and its moral values that it can instill.
At the same time, its through study of scripture that ive actualy come the conclusions i have.

Butterbean

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Re: Is this True - For the God botherers!
« Reply #30 on: August 03, 2011, 08:30:38 AM »
At the same time, its through study of scripture that ive actualy come the conclusions i have.

Do you want to share/discuss some of the scriptures that lead you to these conclusions?



R

Man of Steel

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Re: Is this True - For the God botherers!
« Reply #31 on: August 03, 2011, 09:40:01 AM »
Do you want to share/discuss some of the scriptures that lead you to these conclusions?





It always impresses me how you respond to folks.....cool, calm, respectful.   It's always the same:

Random Poster:  "I believe God doesn't exist because of my vast research in [insert topic of study here]."

Butterbean:  "Would you mind sharing some of your findings with us?"

Random Poster: ****chirping crickets****


Butterbean

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Re: Is this True - For the God botherers!
« Reply #32 on: August 03, 2011, 10:05:15 AM »
It always impresses me how you respond to folks.....cool, calm, respectful.   It's always the same:

Random Poster:  "I believe God doesn't exist because of my vast research in [insert topic of study here]."

Butterbean:  "Would you mind sharing some of your findings with us?"

Random Poster: ****chirping crickets****



lol..wish I was as calm and respectful irl!   

I hope mitch will share if he has time.  I know that some scriptures have had me scratching my head but when you delve into them, questions/doubt can disappear.

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Man of Steel

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Re: Is this True - For the God botherers!
« Reply #33 on: August 03, 2011, 12:44:33 PM »
lol..wish I was as calm and respectful irl!   

I hope mitch will share if he has time.  I know that some scriptures have had me scratching my head but when you delve into them, questions/doubt can disappear.



I believe most debates come down to that all important context.   Scripture is sometimes very clear and other times it takes some study.  I've purchased some great study bibles (both study and apologetic versions).....I love them.  I often have to rely on the scholarship of much more knowledgeble folks to help me along cause I don't know it all.

Butterbean

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Re: Is this True - For the God botherers!
« Reply #34 on: August 04, 2011, 07:10:47 AM »
I believe most debates come down to that all important context.   Scripture is sometimes very clear and other times it takes some study.  I've purchased some great study bibles (both study and apologetic versions).....I love them.  I often have to rely on the scholarship of much more knowledgeble folks to help me along cause I don't know it all.

Agree.  I have a Ryrie Study bible that I like.  Also, have been learning quite a bit in some Beth Moore bible studies.  One thing was about women being silent in the church.  Maybe I'll make a thread on that later.
R

mitchyboy

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Re: Is this True - For the God botherers!
« Reply #35 on: August 05, 2011, 10:19:12 PM »
It isnt one or 2 specific scriptures that i look at but the bible as a whole. So many un answered ??s. It realy is the little things,
inbetween, that no one can answer, except for the same ole gods will blah blah, mystirious ways blah blah, you just have to have faith blah blah blah. It doesnt matter what religion you look at it always boils down to faith.
 So heres a ? Very condensed cause i suck at typing lol.
Adam and eve sin.  They are kicked from the garden. What is placed at the entrance to prevent them from entering in again?

Deicide

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Re: Is this True - For the God botherers!
« Reply #36 on: August 06, 2011, 10:22:54 AM »
It always impresses me how you respond to folks.....cool, calm, respectful.   It's always the same:

Random Poster:  "I believe God doesn't exist because of my vast research in [insert topic of study here]."

Butterbean:  "Would you mind sharing some of your findings with us?"

Random Poster: ****chirping crickets****



You don't need vast research to conclude there is no divine being. You must merely look at and examine the world. Sure, it helps to learn history, about other religions (and their claims) as well as science, but it really comes down to putting two and two together.
I hate the State.

mitchyboy

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Re: Is this True - For the God botherers!
« Reply #37 on: August 07, 2011, 11:40:53 AM »
well since no bothered to answer i will.
God placed 2 cherubs and a spinning sword between them to prevent enetering back into the garden.
My main questian is were did the idea or thought of a sword come from if not God?

Adam and Eve would not even grasp what a sword was. It is a human invention of war. Made for hacking off heaDS  and limbs.
So we can presume God invented the concepts of war, dismemberment, and killing.

Either that or it is a fictisious story.

Either way, you got some splaining to do. lol

Butterbean

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Re: Is this True - For the God botherers!
« Reply #38 on: August 08, 2011, 07:45:59 AM »
You don't need vast research to conclude there is no divine being. You must merely look at and examine the world. Sure, it helps to learn history, about other religions (and their claims) as well as science, but it really comes down to putting two and two together.

See I think some people look at and examine the world and nature and think there HAS to be a divine being/creator.  It just fits together too nicely and is too complex to exist in the way it does w/o one.

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Butterbean

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Re: Is this True - For the God botherers!
« Reply #39 on: August 08, 2011, 07:59:49 AM »
It isnt one or 2 specific scriptures that i look at but the bible as a whole. So many un answered ??s. It realy is the little things,
inbetween, that no one can answer, except for the same ole gods will blah blah, mystirious ways blah blah, you just have to have faith blah blah blah. It doesnt matter what religion you look at it always boils down to faith.
 So heres a ? Very condensed cause i suck at typing lol.
Adam and eve sin.  They are kicked from the garden. What is placed at the entrance to prevent them from entering in again?


mitchy I think you have mentioned the flaming sword before.   

Is suffering and war the main thrust of your "so many unanswered questions?"


well since no bothered to answer i will.
God placed 2 cherubs and a spinning sword between them to prevent enetering back into the garden.
My main questian is were did the idea or thought of a sword come from if not God?

Adam and Eve would not even grasp what a sword was. It is a human invention of war. Made for hacking off heaDS  and limbs.
So we can presume God invented the concepts of war, dismemberment, and killing.

Either that or it is a fictisious story.

Either way, you got some splaining to do. lol


I would say the flaming sword idea came from God since He created and put it there. 




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Re: Is this True - For the God botherers!
« Reply #40 on: August 08, 2011, 08:53:19 AM »

God placed 2 cherubs and a spinning sword between them to prevent enetering back into the garden.
My main questian is were did the idea or thought of a sword come from if not God?



According to the Zodiac it's the sword of Perseus :  
When God sent Adam and Eve from the Garden of Eden, he placed a flaming sword to guard the entrance. Astronomically, when Adam (Bootes) and Eve (Virgo) fall below the horizon, Perseus rises from the east with his sword as if to be chasing them away. The description of his flaming sword can be explained by the fact that when Perseus rises from the horizon, there is a meteor shower, known as the Perseids, which appears to stream from his constellation.

Eastern Orthodox tradition says that from the time Jesus was born, the flaming sword was removed from the Garden of Eden, making it possible for humanity to re-enter Paradise

Cherubim :
The Cherubim is a very large creature that covers the entire Garden. So look in four directions. Ezekiel says it has four faces, the face of a man, a lion, an ox and an eagle. At [2] is the ox. At [5] is the lion. At [11] is the eagle. And in the south garden at [2] is the man. Combined, they protect the four cardinal points.

Each had the face of a man in front; the four had the face of a lion on the right side, the four had the face of an ox on the left side, and the four had the face of an eagle at the back. (Ezekiel 1:10)





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Re: Is this True - For the God botherers!
« Reply #41 on: August 08, 2011, 10:46:29 AM »
See I think some people look at and examine the world and nature and think there HAS to be a divine being/creator.  It just fits together too nicely and is too complex to exist in the way it does w/o one.



Given the constant natural disasters, mass extinctions and general danger in the world, I think you can hardly say it fits together nicely.
I hate the State.

mitchyboy

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Re: Is this True - For the God botherers!
« Reply #42 on: August 08, 2011, 04:56:45 PM »
Thanks for the answers guys, and gal lol.
No, war and surferring are not my main concerns or unanswered questions.
I know where war comes from. And suffering always follows war.
And I do agree that the world is so vast and complex that we " can not understand at this time", lol, how it all works, and were it came from. I'm not fully convinced we ever will either.
I simply don't agree in shutting off our thinking, hanging our heads, and proclaiming with utter certainty that some Divine being had to have created it all, just for the reason we don't know how or why it works. I don't know how a transmission works, but I'm not convinced God created mine.
I'm not saying i have all the answers, and I don't need them. I am perfectly happy just not knowing,much happier then when I believed
in a Creator god.

Emmortal

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Re: Is this True - For the God botherers!
« Reply #43 on: August 12, 2011, 01:35:32 AM »
I'm the same way only i don't envy them just feel sorry for them...Could you imagine dedicating your whole being to something that doesn't exist...Yea it would be great if there was this invisible fairy in the sky that if you worshiped you could spend eternity with your loved ones in paradise...however...tha t's something man created in there heads to make themselves feel better about there mortality...the weak use it as a crutch...only there so blinded by there "faith" they cant see it...my heart wishes these fairy tales of everlasting life were true...but fortunately I have a brain capable of reasonable thought that hasn't been indoctrinated into believing such fables...

Do you subscribe to the new Athiest way of belief or that of the old school guys like Jean Paul Sartre and Albert Camus?