SHoulder question.. Good one for JPM

[coltrane]

Standing (or seated) side laterals with a dumbbell   VS.  Seated side lateral machine.

I'm more comfortable with the machine...  aren't they basically the same movement?   Is there any real benefit in doing them with a dumbbell as opposed to the machine?  I can do slower reps with machine etc

[wes]

Just another variation!!

I`d alternate the two exercises periodically just to keep things fresh.

[wes]

Oh yeah,you can also do cable laterals as well as my favorite,behind the back laterals (superior stretch).

Try Super-Setting any of these variations with wide grip upright rows to about the lower pec line or so.

[CalvinH]

Standing (or seated) side laterals with a dumbbell   VS.  Seated side lateral machine.

I'm more comfortable with the machine...  aren't they basically the same movement?   Is there any real benefit in doing them with a dumbbell as opposed to the machine?  I can do slower reps with machine etc

Seated machine hurts my shoulders so I do standing.

[jpm101]

Best with the machine because more direct force will be on the delts.  With the elbows being on the pads, and doing the actually lifting, the leverage is felt on those delts strongly.

In a regular DB lateral raise much of the effort/focus is extended away from the body because of the distance of those DB's. Will also find that the delts become much stronger, and capable of using a heavier resistance, with a machine. Reason why using a Pec Deck, with the elbows placed on pads is much more effective  than when using a Pec Deck where the grip is out and away from the body. In most upper body exercises, you may find that the position of the elbows are very important as to how effective a movement might be. Or if your getting the full benefit of an exercise.  The greatest shoulder machine I ever used was the Nautilus. With the overhead pressing bar included, it was outstanding.

If into football or the martial arts (besides other sports) you will understand the power generated by the short motions of the elbows and how important they can be. For blocks or blows. Good Luck.

[jpm101]

Might also add that Gironda, Draper, Zain, Steve Davis (underrated BB'er back in the day..interesting ideas) ,etc  stressed the importance of positioning the elbows, the twist of the wrist/forearms and even the placing of the fingers when doing a exercise. Probably a bit extreme (in my view only) but that included some of their training methods. I would rather load up a PR and lift but BB'ing back then seemed to have risen to a mild art form. Some great results though, at that time. Good Luck.

[coltrane]

Thanks JPM and everyone.  I love using the machine on these cause you can drop set easily and go to failure nicely.  Puts the stress right were I want it too.

Awesome help.  This is why I love this board.  Great responses.

[local hero]

one things for sure with the machine, your def not going to cheat that weight up, its pure side delt....

[coltrane]

I have a hard time feeling side delt raises with dbs.  With the machine, i can really burn out/drop set/forced reps with a spotter behind etc. 

I can hit the front delts really good with presses and front raises.  They grow too.  But the sides don't grow.  The only guys I see with great side delts are on gear.  Damn nattys can't seem to get them to grow.  I grow my calves better!

[local hero]

1st things i notice when i go back on is my shoulder popping and forearms.... i dont think you can have those round kind of delts with the traps naturaly imo

[coltrane]

1st things i notice when i go back on is my shoulder popping and forearms.... i dont think you can have those round kind of delts with the traps naturaly imo

Totally agree, although stating that without having been on.  Round delts are near impossible for the natty to get imo.

[Yev33]

I dont know anything about this so I could just be talking out of my ass, but you guys think its because a lot of people inject into their delts?

[chaos]

It's funny I actually feel db laterals in my shoulders more than machine laterals.

Although when I was dealing with tendonitis I used the machine only as it takes a ton of strees off the elbows, actually shocking how much stress is put on the elbow when doing db laterals.

I like to mix them up but I'll often do db laterals first, then "burn out" with the machine.

[local hero]

I dont know anything about this so I could just be talking out of my ass, but you guys think its because a lot of people inject into their delts?

in a word,,,,nope!

[jpm101]

When watching any NBA game you might be impressed by the rounded delt's of a lot of the players.  Also gymnast included.

Rounds delts depend on muscle insertions, heretic factors dictate this. As some are born with  high/flat biceps, high/low calf's, high/low lats, etc. Can always improve any muscle, to it's best potential but not it's placement or shape.  Might have 20" guns, but a flat bicep without any noticeable peak at all. Can never re-shape a muscle, unless surgery is applied (maybe).

Seen a few top BB'ers & Pro's with lop sided delts, arms, pec's, etc which would suggest a oil spill inside and under the muscle. Or who ever applied the needle did a very bad job. Good luck.

[Yev33]

in a word,,,,nope!

Thanks for clearing that up, I knew that I could be totally off with that comment.

[local hero]

When watching any NBA game you might be impressed by the rounded delt's of a lot of the players.  Also gymnast included.

Rounds delts depend on muscle insertions, heretic factors dictate this. As some are born with  high/flat biceps, high/low calf's, high/low lats, etc. Can always improve any muscle, to it's best potential but not it's placement or shape.  Might have 20" guns, but a flat bicep without any noticeable peak at all. Can never re-shape a muscle, unless surgery is applied (maybe).

Seen a few top BB'ers & Pro's with lop sided delts, arms, pec's, etc which would suggest a oil spill inside and under the muscle. Or who ever applied the needle did a very bad job. Good luck.

this would only apply with site enhancement oil, normal gear is used very quikly by the body, wouldnt be there long enough to 'spill'

[tbombz]

It's funny I actually feel db laterals in my shoulders more than machine laterals.

ya me too. ill try the machine out a bit tho. will have to pin a 45 lb plate into the stack in order to get enough weight.... i swear they never make machines with enough weight on the stack.

[wes]

ya me too. ill try the machine out a bit tho. will have to pin a 45 lb plate into the stack in order to get enough weight.... i swear they never make machines with enough weight on the stack.

[tbombz]

the stack on my gym's detl machine only goes to 150...  did it two days ago ... 4 sets 10 reps each.. easy... need more weight!

[Painlayer69]

Seated machine hurts my shoulders so I do standing.

Same thing here

[tbombz]

jpm ive done the machine laterals for two workouts now. it feels like it work my traps more. tips on how to reduce this for more delt stimulation?

[chaos]

jpm ive done the machine laterals for two workouts now. it feels like it work my traps more. tips on how to reduce this for more delt stimulation?

Are you leaning forward with your chest on a pad? I find that sitting back away from the pad helps get the stress off my traps. Try sitting up straight or slightly lean back.

[coltrane]

Bombz:  you may be sitting too low on the machine.

[Montague]

jpm ive done the machine laterals for two workouts now. it feels like it work my traps more. tips on how to reduce this for more delt stimulation?

Using the kind of weight you are may be causing you to tense the traps, using them as a strong ancillary muscle in raising those pads.
From past posts, it sounds like you've got a good understanding of mind/muscle connection.
Try reducing the weight and really concentrate on "relaxing" your trapezius, using only the lateral delts throughout the movement.