Author Topic: Re: THE ISRAEL LOBBY & U.S. Foreign Policy  (Read 4096 times)

EL Mariachi

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Re: THE ISRAEL LOBBY & U.S. Foreign Policy
« on: May 21, 2011, 11:18:17 PM »
Dont the american jews own a lot of money in us?
Then the bond doesnt surprise me.

Brando ''the jews own hollywood''

freespirit

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Re: THE ISRAEL LOBBY & U.S. Foreign Policy
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2011, 11:43:57 PM »
 >:(

JOHN MATRIX

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Re: THE ISRAEL LOBBY & U.S. Foreign Policy
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2011, 11:47:28 PM »
you're...you're a NAZI!!!!! what are you HITLER!?!?!?! you're ANTI-SEMITIC!!!!! YOU ARE A GERMAN NAZI LOVING SKINHEAD BIGOT !!!!!!!


haha no you are completely correct just be prepared for the flames from the ignorant blind israel fanboys.

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Re: THE ISRAEL LOBBY & U.S. Foreign Policy
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2011, 11:48:34 PM »
israel sucks!!!!!

Naggash

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Re: THE ISRAEL LOBBY & U.S. Foreign Policy
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2011, 11:50:27 PM »
Israel has been caught numerous times trying to steal American technology via espionage.

They also deliberately killed American servicemen in the USS Liberty attack.

Yet The Coach thinks it is treasonous not to support Israel ::)

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Re: THE ISRAEL LOBBY & U.S. Foreign Policy
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2011, 11:57:59 PM »
Israel has been caught numerous times trying to steal American technology via espionage.

They also deliberately killed American servicemen in the USS Liberty attack.

Yet The Coach thinks it is treasonous not to support Israel ::)

yes the uss liberty AND the lavon affair...plus it was jewish spies (rosenbergs) who handed nuclear technology to the Soviets thus starting the Cold War...not to mention their wars of agression in the middle east  which have put an entire people behind Walls guarded with machine guns and infringed on the borders of every surrounding nation...and who stoledeveloped a sophisticated nuclear weapons program......but no, its iran who is 'destabilizing the region'  ::)

Captain Equipoise

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Re: THE ISRAEL LOBBY & U.S. Foreign Policy
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2011, 12:16:40 AM »
US should completely pull out of the middle east and iraq/afghanistan and focus/worry about itself, let these countries fend for themselves, middle east and iraq/afghanistan are nothing but sand anyway, the US already has control over the oil wells in iraq/kuwait, tired of seeing the US always taking Israel's side against the Palestinians, let the two countries duke it out, it's not like peace will ever be there.

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Re: THE ISRAEL LOBBY & U.S. Foreign Policy
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2011, 12:20:02 AM »
Hahahahaha, the Liberal band of short bussed idiots in this thread. Hahahahahahahahaha. Carry on, this is entertaining ;D

Firemuscle

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Re: THE ISRAEL LOBBY & U.S. Foreign Policy
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2011, 12:20:31 AM »
US should completely pull out of the middle east and iraq/afghanistan and focus/worry about itself, let these countries fend for themselves, middle east and iraq/afghanistan are nothing but sand anyway, the US already has control over the oil wells in iraq/kuwait, tired of seeing the US always taking Israel's side against the Palestinians, let the two countries duke it out, it's not like peace will ever be there.


 They just want t keep the war economy going.

 Destroy and rebuild = good money

 Pretty fucking disgusting. The worst part is that most Americans just shrug their shoulders and accept it.

Naggash

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Re: THE ISRAEL LOBBY & U.S. Foreign Policy
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2011, 12:21:26 AM »
Hahahahaha, the Liberal band of short bussed idiots in this thread. Hahahahahahahahaha. Carry on, this is entertaining ;D

Typical retarded answer. I don't even live in the US and am far from being a liberal.

Israel is objectively a terrible ally to have.

Laughing like a jackass isn't a convincing argument

Is that how you seriously portray everything? If someone has an opinion you don't like they must certainly be a liberal? Haha fucking retarded

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Re: THE ISRAEL LOBBY & U.S. Foreign Policy
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2011, 12:22:49 AM »
Typical retarded answer. I don't even live in the US and am far from being a liberal.

Israel is objectively a terrible ally to have.

Laughing like a jackass isn't a convincing argument.

Riiight..lol

Captain Equipoise

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Re: THE ISRAEL LOBBY & U.S. Foreign Policy
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2011, 12:24:02 AM »
Hahahahaha, the Liberal band of short bussed idiots in this thread. Hahahahahahahahaha. Carry on, this is entertaining ;D

Very intelligent couch, do you have any other words in your vocabulary other then liberal and republican?! because it seems every single post you make always includes one of the two.

Naggash

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Re: THE ISRAEL LOBBY & U.S. Foreign Policy
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2011, 12:24:28 AM »
Riiight..lol

What the fuck? At least try to refute something.

Two word posts are boring

Please don't say you support Israel for religious reasons.....

Firemuscle

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Re: THE ISRAEL LOBBY & U.S. Foreign Policy
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2011, 12:25:18 AM »
Hahahahaha, the Liberal band of short bussed idiots in this thread. Hahahahahahahahaha. Carry on, this is entertaining ;D

 You have gotta be the most uneducated and bone-headed guy on this forum.

 Do you realize that you are stupid? Or do you just think you are normal?

Firemuscle

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Re: THE ISRAEL LOBBY & U.S. Foreign Policy
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2011, 12:29:44 AM »
Very intelligent couch, do you have any other words in your vocabulary other then liberal and republican?! because it seems every single post you make always includes one of the two.


 He is a simple minded and brain dead idiot.

 And anytime someone calls him out on it his stupid mind just thinks they are a "liberal".

 I can't believe some people are walking around as stupid as him. If he grew up in a cabin in the woods i'd understand, but he's in SoCal and on the internet all the time. How can he be so unworldy and dumb?

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Re: THE ISRAEL LOBBY & U.S. Foreign Policy
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2011, 12:32:51 AM »
He is a simple minded and brain dead idiot.

 And anytime someone calls him out on it his stupid mind just thinks they are a "liberal".

 I can't believe some people are walking around as stupid as him. If he grew up in a cabin in the woods i'd understand, but he's in SoCal and on the internet all the time. How can he be so unworldy and dumb?

Anything's possible I guess, but that seems to be his standard reply to everything, 'you're a  liberal' LOL

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Re: THE ISRAEL LOBBY & U.S. Foreign Policy
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2011, 12:38:18 AM »
#1 He is.
#2 Sadly, he does not.
#3 Yes, he does.

Meet "The Coach", getbig's Village Idiot.
He doesn't even know why he blindly supports Israel's occupation and Zionist policies. He doesn't understand much of anything. Whatever FOX NEWS and the right-wing political establishment says is right, then that is what "The Coach" is for. Dumber than a box of rocks, poor fellow.

I don't think you're allowed to have any other channel then FOX on at couch's house, between fox news and divorce court he's got all he needs!

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Re: THE ISRAEL LOBBY & U.S. Foreign Policy
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2011, 12:40:53 AM »
You have gotta be the most uneducated and bone-headed guy on this forum.

 Do you realize that you are stupid? Or do you just think you are normal?

LOL...no I'm just right and no matter what proof I post, what accurate history I post, you will still say exactly what you've been saying. I post fact and libs (oh..I'm sorry. I meant "progressives") rhetoric, opinion, lies and spin (BTW this is fact). You clowns fail at damn near everything and you think you're actually and factually correct on this?????? Hahahaha.

JOHN MATRIX

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Re: THE ISRAEL LOBBY & U.S. Foreign Policy
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2011, 12:42:53 AM »
coach, what exactly is your reason for supporting israel?

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Re: THE ISRAEL LOBBY & U.S. Foreign Policy
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2011, 12:43:45 AM »
#1 He is.
#2 Sadly, he does not.
#3 Yes, he does.

Meet "The Coach", getbig's Village Idiot.
He doesn't even know why he blindly supports Israel's occupation and Zionist policies. He doesn't understand much of anything. Whatever FOX NEWS and the right-wing political establishment says is right, then that is what "The Coach" is for. Dumber than a box of rocks, poor fellow.

Benny, not only me, but 333 and everyone else has pwned your ass in every thread you've ever created and the best you can come up with is this. LOL

Firemuscle

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Re: THE ISRAEL LOBBY & U.S. Foreign Policy
« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2011, 12:44:31 AM »
LOL...no I'm just right and no matter what proof I post, what accurate history I post, you will still say exactly what you've been saying. I post fact and libs (oh..I'm sorry. I meant "progressives") rhetoric, opinion, lies and spin (BTW this is fact). You clowns fail at damn near everything and you think you're actually and factually correct on this?????? Hahahaha.

 Please post some kind of proof or something that shows where you are coming from.

 Seriously. Post something and I will read it with an open mind.

 The problem is that you never post anything. You just make retarded little posts that make you sound stupid and you don't even make any good points in your posts.

 Post up whatever you got, and i'll read it and consider it seriously.

Kulutues

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Re: THE ISRAEL LOBBY & U.S. Foreign Policy
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2011, 12:45:02 AM »
Typical retarded answer. I don't even live in the US and am far from being a liberal.

Israel is objectively a terrible ally to have.

Laughing like a jackass isn't a convincing argument

Is that how you seriously portray everything? If someone has an opinion you don't like they must certainly be a liberal? Haha fucking retarded

Look at Israel's enemies.  Their the only ally to have.

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Re: THE ISRAEL LOBBY & U.S. Foreign Policy
« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2011, 12:52:23 AM »
Please post some kind of proof or something that shows where you are coming from.

 Seriously. Post something and I will read it with an open mind.

 The problem is that you never post anything. You just make retarded little posts that make you sound stupid and you don't even make any good points in your posts.

 Post up whatever you got, and i'll read it and consider it seriously.

We'll start with this and pick it up tomorrow. It's almost 1am here and 3 hours past my bed time. Good night!


Today, the United States and Israel are the closest of friends and allies. During more than four decades of state-building, Israelis have looked to the United States for inspiration, financial and military assistance, and diplomatic support. Americans, in turn, have viewed Israel with a special appreciation for its successful effort to follow the Western democratic tradition, its remarkable economic development, and its determined struggle against its uncompromising enemies.

This mutual admiration is hardly a recent phenomenon. The profound influence of Jewish tradition on the Founding Fathers can be seen in the American Constitution. Such influence should come as no surprise given John Adams' view expressed in a letter to Thomas Jefferson: "I will insist that the Hebrews have done more to civilize man than any other nation."

According to Woodrow Wilson, the ancient Jewish nation provided a model for the American colonists:

    Recalling the previous experiences of the colonists in applying the Mosaic Code to the order of their internal life, it is not to be wondered at that the various passages in the Bible that serve to undermine royal authority, stripping the Crown of its cloak of divinity, held up before the pioneer Americans the Hebrew Commonwealth as a model government. In the spirit and essence of our Constitution, the influence of the Hebrew Commonwealth was paramount in that it was not only the highest authority for the principle, "that rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God," but also because it was in itself a divine precedent for a pure democracy, as distinguished from monarchy, aristocracy or any other form of government.

Jews also contributed directly to the revolution. President Calvin Coolidge paid tribute to their role in the War of Independence:

    The Jews themselves, of whom a considerable number were already scattered throughout the colonies, were true to the teachings of their prophets. The Jewish faith is predominantly the faith of liberty.

One original design for the official Seal for the United States submitted by Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, and John Adams depicted the Israelites crossing the Red Sea with Pharaoh in pursuit and Moses standing on the other side. The motto was to have been: "Rebellion to Tyrants is Obedience to God." Another seal was chosen, but the Liberty Bell does bear an inscription from the Old Testament: "And Proclaim Freedom Throughout The Land Unto All the Inhabitants Thereof" (Leviticus 25:10).

Although it took 2,000 years to resurrect Hebrew as a spoken language in the early twentieth century in Palestine, Hebrew was a prerequisite for early American scholars. Many universities required it in their curriculum. Hebrew was compulsory at Harvard until 1787. To this day, Yale's insignia has the words Urim V'Thummim (oracle learning).
America's Support for Zionism

American support for the age-old aspirations of the Jewish people to return to their homeland dates from the Colonial period when John Adams wrote: "I really wish the Jews again in Judea an independent nation for, as I believe, the most enlightened men of it have participated in the amelioration of the philosophy of the age." John Quincy Adams wrote to Major Mordecai Manuel Noah that he believed in the "rebuilding of Judea as an independent nation."

Not long after the Emancipation Proclamation, President Abraham Lincoln met a Canadian Christian Zionist, Henry Wentworth Monk, who expressed hope that Jews who were suffering oppression in Russia and Turkey be emancipated "by restoring them to their national home in Palestine." Lincoln said this was "a noble dream and one shared by many Americans." The President said his chiropodist was a Jew who "has so many times ‘put me upon my feet’ that I would have no objection to giving his countrymen ‘a leg up.’"

In 1883, Emma Lazarus, the poet whose words are inscribed on the Statue of Liberty, wrote that Palestine should be as "a Home for the Homeless, a Goal for the Wanderer and an Asylum for the persecuted and a nation of the denationalized."

In 1891, pogroms incited by Czar Alexander III provoked an outcry by many prominent Americans, including the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court and Speaker of the House. Rev. William E. Blackstone and Cardinal Gibbons presented a petition signed by those who were concerned about the fate of the Jews in Russia to President Benjamin Harrison and Secretary of State James Blaine. They called for the first international conference "to consider the Israelite claim to Palestine as their ancient home, and to promote in any other just and proper way the alleviation of their suffering condition."

Why not give Palestine back to the Jews again? According to God's distribution of nations, it is their home—an inalienable possession from which they were expelled by force. Under their cultivation was a remarkable fruitful land, sustaining millions of Israelites, who industrially tilled its hillsides and valleys. They were agriculturists and producers...the center of civilization and religion.

We believe this is an appropriate time for all nations, and especially the Christian nations of Europe, to show kindness to Israel...let us now restore to them the land of which they were so cruelly despoiled by our Roman ancestors.

The signatories' idea preceded the first World Zionist Congress that adopted the program to establish a Jewish homeland in Palestine by six years.
Endorsing The Balfour Declaration

In 1917, Lord Balfour sent a letter to Lord Rothschild, president of the British Zionist Federation, stating that the British Government would facilitate the establishment of a national home for the Jewish people in Palestine. President Wilson expressed his support for the Balfour Declaration when he stated on March 3, 1919:

    The allied nations with the fullest concurrence of our government and people are agreed that in Palestine shall be laid the foundations of a Jewish Commonwealth.

After Wilson left office, his successors expressed similar support for the Zionist enterprise. "It is impossible for one who has studied at all the services of the Hebrew people to avoid the faith that they will one day be restored to their historic national home and there enter on a new and yet greater phase of their contribution to the advance of humanity," said President Warren Harding.

Calvin Coolidge expressed his "sympathy with the deep and intense longing which finds such fine expression in the Jewish National Homeland in Palestine."

"Palestine which, desolate for centuries, is now renewing its youth and vitality through enthusiasm, hard work, and self-sacrifice of the Jewish pioneers who toil there in a spirit of peace and social justice," observed Herbert Hoover.

Congress was no less sympathetic to the Zionist objective. One can look back to the joint Congressional resolutions of 1922 and 1944 that unanimously passed an endorsement of the Balfour Declaration. The House Foreign Affairs Committee stated in 1922:

    The Jews of America are profoundly interested in establishing a National Home in the ancient land for their race. Indeed, this is the ideal of the Jewish people, everywhere, for, despite their dispersion, Palestine has been the object of their veneration since they were expelled by the Romans. For generations they have prayed for the return to Zion. During the past century this prayer has assumed practical form.

Legislatures in 33 states, representing 85 percent of the population, also adopted resolutions favoring the creation of a Jewish state in Palestine. Governors of 37 states, 54 United States senators, and 250 congressmen signed petitions to the President.
The Campaign for Partition

In early 1947, the British, who then administered a League of Nations mandate for Palestine, decided to bring the question of how to resolve the dispute between Arabs and Jews to the United Nations. The General Assembly decided to set up the United Nations Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP) to investigate the cause of the conflict in Palestine, and, if possible, devise a solution.

The UNSCOP, composed of representatives from 11 nations, visited Palestine and found the Jewish community very responsive to its inquiries. The Arabs in Palestine greeted the UNSCOP with hostility and refused to cooperate. The Arab Higher Committee boycotted the Commission but demanded that the UN immediately grant Palestine its independence. As one author observed, the contrasting attitudes of Jews and Arabs toward the UNSCOP "could not fail to give the impression that the Jews were imbued with the sense of right and were prepared to plead their case before any unbiased tribunal, while the Arabs felt unsure of the justice of their cause, or were afraid to bow to the judgement of the nations."

One UNSCOP aide was particularly influential, an American named Ralph Bunche. Later Bunche would play a key role in negotiating armistice agreements between Israel and its neighbors following the War of Independence. In 1947, Bunche set up a meeting between two members of the UNSCOP and Menachem Begin, the leader of the Irgun Jewish underground. As he was leaving Begin's hideout, Bunche told the future Israeli Prime Minister: "I can understand you. I am also a member of a persecuted minority." Richard Crossman of Britain asked Bunche if his exposure to the Jews had made him anti-Semitic "yet." Bunche answered: "That would be impossible....I know the flavor of racial prejudice and racial persecution. A wise Negro can never be an anti-Semite."

The majority of the UNSCOP concluded after its investigation that the question of ownership or right to Palestine was an insoluble antinomy. Rather than try to solve it, they chose the logical alternative of partition, in which both Jews and Arabs would be given sovereignty in their own separate state.

The United States endorsed the majority report and called on the General Assembly to approve partition. Some dispute exists among scholars as to how vigorously the Truman Administration lobbied for the resolution. Nevertheless, ample evidence exists to indicate that U.S. influence played a critical role in securing the adoption of the partition resolution.
President Truman with David Ben-Gurion and Abba Eban

Less than six months later, Israel declared its independence and the United States was the first nation to grant de facto recognition to the new Jewish State—11 minutes after the proclamation. "I had faith in Israel before it was established, I have faith in it now," Truman said May 26, 1952. "I believe it has a glorious future before it—not just another sovereign nation, but as an embodiment of the great ideals of our civilization."
A Historical Commitment to Israel

The recognition of shared values has been a consistent theme in statements by American Presidents ever since Truman. John Kennedy, for example, declared: "This nation, from the time of President Woodrow Wilson, has established and continued a tradition of friendship with Israel because we are committed to all free societies that seek a path to peace and honor individual right. In the prophetic spirit of Zionism all free men today look to a better world and in the experience of Zionism we know that it takes courage and perseverance and dedication to achieve it."

"The United States and Israel share many common objectives...chief of which is the building of a better world in which every nation can develop its resources and develop them in freedom and peace," said Lyndon Johnson.

The roots of Johnson's feelings, like those of many other Americans came from the Bible. As he explained in a speech before B'nai B'rith: "Most if not all of you have very deep ties with the land and with the people of Israel, as I do, for my Christian faith sprang from yours." The President explained that "the Bible stories are woven into my childhood memories as the gallant struggle of modern Jews to be free of persecution is also woven into our souls."

Richard Nixon asserted that the United States stands by its friends and that "Israel is one of its friends." His successor, Gerald Ford, reaffirmed his "commitment to the security and future of Israel is based upon basic morality as well as enlightened self-interest. Our role in supporting Israel honors our own heritage."

"The United States," Jimmy Carter said, "has a warm and a unique relationship of friendship with Israel that is morally right. It is compatible with our deepest religious convictions, and it is right in terms of America's own strategic interests. We are committed to Israel's security, prosperity, and future as a land that has so much to offer the world."

Ronald Reagan was the first President to state explicitly that Israel was a strategic asset to the United States, a belief he expressed even before he was elected: "Only by full appreciation of the critical role the State of Israel plays in our strategic calculus can we build the foundation for thwarting Moscow's designs on territories and resources vital to our security and our national well-being." But Reagan also understood this alliance sprang from shared values: "Since the rebirth of the State of Israel, there has been an ironclad bond between that democracy and this one."

Shortly after taking office, George Bush said: "The friendship, the alliance between the United States and Israel is strong and solid, built upon a foundation of shared democratic values, of shared history and heritage, that sustains the life of our two countries. The emotional bond of our people transcends politics. Our strategic cooperation—and I renew today our determination that that go forward—is a source of mutual security. And the United States’ commitment to the security of Israel remains unshakeable. We may differ over some policies from time to time, individual policies, but never over the principle."

President Bill Clinton has taken the relationship to another level during his administration. "Our relationship would never vary from its allegiance to the shared values, the shared religious heritage, the shared democratic politics which have made the relationship between the United States and Israel a special—even on occasion a wonderful—relationship."

The Jewish population in the United States is less than six million; therefore, the political activity of Jews who view strengthening U.S.-Israel relations to be in the national interest alone cannot explain the depth of the friendship that exists. Fewer than 3 percent of the population could hardly have such a dramatic influence on American foreign policy. The U.S.-Israel alliance is rooted in shared values.

If one were forced to reduce the explanation for the unique relationship between the United States and Israel to one sentence, it was probably best expressed by Lyndon Johnson. When Soviet Premier Aleksei Kosygin asked Johnson why the United States supports Israel when there are 80 million Arabs and only three million Israelis, the President replied simply: "Because it is right."
   





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Re: THE ISRAEL LOBBY & U.S. Foreign Policy
« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2011, 01:06:42 AM »
The real question I would like to know is how much of the countries wealth does that three percent hold, I have always found American foreign policy to be more of an issue of accumalating wealth with democracy the vehicle of the crusade, meaning I believe the USA foreign policy is built purely on wealth accumalation rather than what the democratic voters back home want.
From the embarssing ass kicking Obama got from Netanyahu i believe they muist hold a lot more clout than 3 percent of the wealth in the USA and in Israel.

Firemuscle

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Re: THE ISRAEL LOBBY & U.S. Foreign Policy
« Reply #24 on: May 22, 2011, 01:09:57 AM »
 What a terrible article. Mostly just a bunch of abstract stuff about "shared values" and lots of religious nonsense, lots of BS about "democracy" which has certainly been corrupted in the US and turned into a plutocracy, so that point is mute. And most of the article goes over stuff from the distant past. Only the last few paragraphs discuss issues that are relevant at the present time. Most of it is talking about stuff that happened in the 1700s and 1800s and early 1900s, the world situation was completely different. back then That stuff just isn't relevant anymore.

 Very fluffy article without a lot of concrete facts and definitive reasoning, lots of bravado about abstract "values" and "deomocracy" and stuff meant to appeal to Christians from a religiously biased perspective. Where did this article come from?

 Basically that article is saying is that the allegiance is because of economic cooperation, Democratic ideals and strategic cooperation. I would counter by saying that right now, in the past 20 years, things have changed and the US is now getting a shitty deal with it's Israel allegiance.

 The USA already has it's bases in Iraq and Afghanistan now. So we don't relaly need Israel anymore for a military foothold.

 Seems like the only real reason is $$$$$$. That's the only legit reason I see from this article.

 Coach, could you please explain in your own words why you suppport the alliance with Israel? Copying and pasting a big article like this is good, but can you just break it down more concisely please?

 Also i'd like to hear more information that is relevant to the present time. You know, the situation has changed A LOT in the past few decades. This article is definitely stepping around all these modern issues like terrorism, the US ocupation in Iraq and Afghanistan, the money we pour in there, etc. An article that focuses on 21st century issues would be better instead of a big historical article.