Author Topic: Ron Paul-Stop Obama's Unconstitutional Power Grab!  (Read 3063 times)

Skip8282

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Re: Ron Paul-Stop Obama's Unconstitutional Power Grab!
« Reply #25 on: May 30, 2011, 07:47:55 PM »
Is your name BeachBum?


Goddamn dude, what are you 12 fucking years old?  Explains the blind devotion to RP.  ::)

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Re: Ron Paul-Stop Obama's Unconstitutional Power Grab!
« Reply #26 on: May 30, 2011, 07:50:20 PM »

Goddamn dude, what are you 12 fucking years old?  Explains the blind devotion to RP.  ::)

 If I wanted your opinion, I would have asked for it. Can you comprehend that?


Dos Equis

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Re: Ron Paul-Stop Obama's Unconstitutional Power Grab!
« Reply #27 on: May 30, 2011, 07:50:56 PM »
Dude, don't have a frigging cerebral aneurysm, you're not on trial here.

I was getting to the exact point of what problem I have with it and it started in the form of a question to you, since you are so well versed with the Act having read it and all. I admit to not reading the whole thing and I was hoping you can help me out with these defintions, maybe Alex Jones might have given me the wrong ones.  ::)

I'm not asking you to cite chapter and verse.  I simply asked you what specific part you have a problem with.  There is no crime in not having read the act.  What's pretty silly is condemning something you haven't read, or worse, criticizing those who support something you haven't read.    

I tell you what, you tell me which part bothers you and I'll use my friend Google to try and find it for you.  

Skip8282

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Re: Ron Paul-Stop Obama's Unconstitutional Power Grab!
« Reply #28 on: May 30, 2011, 07:51:15 PM »
If I wanted your opinion, I would have asked for it. Can you comprehend that?




I didn't give you an opinion retard.  I asked you a question.  Can you comprehend that?

Dos Equis

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Re: Ron Paul-Stop Obama's Unconstitutional Power Grab!
« Reply #29 on: May 30, 2011, 07:51:33 PM »
You saying Im a racist BB?

What??  lol.  Dude I don't even know you.  

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Re: Ron Paul-Stop Obama's Unconstitutional Power Grab!
« Reply #30 on: May 30, 2011, 07:52:42 PM »

I didn't give you an opinion retard.  I asked you a question.  Can you comprehend that?

You gave both dickwad.

Dos Equis

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Re: Ron Paul-Stop Obama's Unconstitutional Power Grab!
« Reply #31 on: May 30, 2011, 07:54:09 PM »

Goddamn dude, what are you 12 fucking years old?  Explains the blind devotion to RP.  ::)

You know, his entire approach to this has been pretty juvenile.  All I did was ask him what part of the Patriot Act bothered him and he got all worked up.  Now, I freely admit to being a clown.  Not sure what his excuse is.   :D

Skip8282

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Re: Ron Paul-Stop Obama's Unconstitutional Power Grab!
« Reply #32 on: May 30, 2011, 07:59:12 PM »
You gave both dickwad.


No, I gave you a fact and then a question.  Real simple for most people.

Skip8282

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Re: Ron Paul-Stop Obama's Unconstitutional Power Grab!
« Reply #33 on: May 30, 2011, 08:00:22 PM »
You know, his entire approach to this has been pretty juvenile.  All I did was ask him what part of the Patriot Act bothered him and he got all worked up.  Now, I freely admit to being a clown.  Not sure what his excuse is.   :D




Yeah, apparently they can't handle joking around about RP.  Can't imagine why the term "fanatic" gets thrown around so much.  ::)

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Re: Ron Paul-Stop Obama's Unconstitutional Power Grab!
« Reply #34 on: May 30, 2011, 08:07:45 PM »

No, I gave you a fact and then a question.  Real simple for most people.


Sounds like you were really sure of that fact....

Dos Equis

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Re: Ron Paul-Stop Obama's Unconstitutional Power Grab!
« Reply #35 on: May 30, 2011, 08:08:55 PM »



Yeah, apparently they can't handle joking around about RP.  Can't imagine why the term "fanatic" gets thrown around so much.  ::)

Tell me about it. 

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Re: Ron Paul-Stop Obama's Unconstitutional Power Grab!
« Reply #36 on: May 30, 2011, 08:52:09 PM »
I'm not asking you to cite chapter and verse.  I simply asked you what specific part you have a problem with.  There is no crime in not having read the act.  What's pretty silly is condemning something you haven't read, or worse, criticizing those who support something you haven't read.   

I tell you what, you tell me which part bothers you and I'll use my friend Google to try and find it for you. 

I was attempting to explain to you the parts that I have a problem with. In trying to establish wether you and I both understood certain defintions as they pretain to the Patriot Act,  I asked you simple question. woopty doo, whats the big deal?  Instead of an answer, you were the one that got all bent out of shape, as if I told you to lick some shit or something. You wanna "clown" around, go ahead, but the next time you wanna be a dinky let me know before hand so I don't waste any more time.


Dos Equis

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Re: Ron Paul-Stop Obama's Unconstitutional Power Grab!
« Reply #37 on: May 30, 2011, 09:21:13 PM »
I was attempting to explain to you the parts that I have a problem with. In trying to establish wether you and I both understood certain defintions as they pretain to the Patriot Act,  I asked you simple question. woopty doo, whats the big deal?  Instead of an answer, you were the one that got all bent out of shape, as if I told you to lick some shit or something. You wanna "clown" around, go ahead, but the next time you wanna be a dinky let me know before hand so I don't waste any more time.



Oh please.   ::)  You are the one who got all worked up when I asked you a very simple, and what should have been, nonthreatening question.  It started in this thread:  http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=378196.0 

You didn't ask a simple question.  I did.  You never answered it.  Still haven't.

As I said in the other thread, I've been asking people on this board for about four years what problems they have the Patriot Act.  What I suspect is many of those folks, including you, have taken their talking points from Ron Paul, without knowing what the heck they're actually opposed to, or why.     

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Re: Ron Paul-Stop Obama's Unconstitutional Power Grab!
« Reply #38 on: May 30, 2011, 10:07:50 PM »
Fuck man, you are so stubborn it's ridiculous. I cant believe Im caving into this.

SEC. 802. DEFINITION OF DOMESTIC TERRORISM.


(a) DOMESTIC TERRORISM DEFINED- Section 2331 of title 18, United States Code, is amended--

(1) in paragraph (1)(B)(iii), by striking `by assassination or kidnapping' and inserting `by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping';

(2) in paragraph (3), by striking `and';

(3) in paragraph (4), by striking the period at the end and inserting `; and'; and

(4) by adding at the end the following:

`(5) the term `domestic terrorism' means activities that--

`(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;

`(B) appear to be intended--

`(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;

`(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or

`(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and

`(C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.'.

(b) CONFORMING AMENDMENT- Section 3077(1) of title 18, United States Code, is amended to read as follows:

`(1) `act of terrorism' means an act of domestic or international terrorism as defined in section 2331;'.


The defintions of terrorist, terrorism and domestic terrorism are too broad.  They can ecompass just about any group. WTO protesters or Greenpeace could be considered terrorists/teorrorist organization. I could be participating in a lawfull manner during the WTO affair and still possibly be considered a terrorist through association. Maybe a guy asked me what time it was before he burns down a building and law enforcement saw me "engaging" with him earlier, I could be defined as a terrorist. This section  expands the type of conduct that the government can investigate when it is investigating ""terrorism."

I don't trust the government to make a rational decision as to what conduct falls under the umbrella of terrorism. Does protesting the legalization of  pot count as an act of terrorism? If a politician doesnt want to raise the debt cieling are they an economic terrorist?  If I have a "DON"T TREAD ON ME" bumper sticker, am I a terrorist?


The MIAC report specifically describes supporters of presidential candidates Ron Paul, Chuck Baldwin, and Bob Barr as “militia” influenced terrorists  and instructs the Missouri police to be on the lookout for supporters displaying bumper stickers and other paraphernalia associated with the Constitutional, Campaign for Liberty, and Libertarian parties.

“Missouri Information Analysis Center (MIAC) provides a public safety partnership consisting of local, state and federal agencies, as well as the public sector and private entities that will collect, evaluate, analyze, and disseminate information and intelligence to the agencies tasked with Homeland Security responsibilities in a timely, effective, and secure manner,” explains the MIAC website. “MIAC is the mechanism to collect incident reports of suspicious activities to be evaluated and analyzed in an effort to identify potential trends or patterns of terrorist or criminal operations within the state of Missouri.

Report distributed by the Missouri Information Analysis Center (MIAC) entitled “The Modern Militia Movement”



Other sections make it too easy for your assets to be taken from you if you fall into the above section, even if you arent charged with anything and it could take months and months before you have you assets returned.

Im not a lawyer and I didnt read the whole Act but it's how I interpret the above.since you read the whole thing maybe you can fill me in.

Dos Equis

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Re: Ron Paul-Stop Obama's Unconstitutional Power Grab!
« Reply #39 on: May 31, 2011, 11:32:56 AM »
Fuck man, you are so stubborn it's ridiculous. I cant believe Im caving into this.

SEC. 802. DEFINITION OF DOMESTIC TERRORISM.


(a) DOMESTIC TERRORISM DEFINED- Section 2331 of title 18, United States Code, is amended--

(1) in paragraph (1)(B)(iii), by striking `by assassination or kidnapping' and inserting `by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping';

(2) in paragraph (3), by striking `and';

(3) in paragraph (4), by striking the period at the end and inserting `; and'; and

(4) by adding at the end the following:

`(5) the term `domestic terrorism' means activities that--

`(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;

`(B) appear to be intended--

`(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;

`(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or

`(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and

`(C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.'.

(b) CONFORMING AMENDMENT- Section 3077(1) of title 18, United States Code, is amended to read as follows:

`(1) `act of terrorism' means an act of domestic or international terrorism as defined in section 2331;'.


The defintions of terrorist, terrorism and domestic terrorism are too broad.  They can ecompass just about any group. WTO protesters or Greenpeace could be considered terrorists/teorrorist organization. I could be participating in a lawfull manner during the WTO affair and still possibly be considered a terrorist through association. Maybe a guy asked me what time it was before he burns down a building and law enforcement saw me "engaging" with him earlier, I could be defined as a terrorist. This section  expands the type of conduct that the government can investigate when it is investigating ""terrorism."

I don't trust the government to make a rational decision as to what conduct falls under the umbrella of terrorism. Does protesting the legalization of  pot count as an act of terrorism? If a politician doesnt want to raise the debt cieling are they an economic terrorist?  If I have a "DON"T TREAD ON ME" bumper sticker, am I a terrorist?


The MIAC report specifically describes supporters of presidential candidates Ron Paul, Chuck Baldwin, and Bob Barr as “militia” influenced terrorists  and instructs the Missouri police to be on the lookout for supporters displaying bumper stickers and other paraphernalia associated with the Constitutional, Campaign for Liberty, and Libertarian parties.

“Missouri Information Analysis Center (MIAC) provides a public safety partnership consisting of local, state and federal agencies, as well as the public sector and private entities that will collect, evaluate, analyze, and disseminate information and intelligence to the agencies tasked with Homeland Security responsibilities in a timely, effective, and secure manner,” explains the MIAC website. “MIAC is the mechanism to collect incident reports of suspicious activities to be evaluated and analyzed in an effort to identify potential trends or patterns of terrorist or criminal operations within the state of Missouri.

Report distributed by the Missouri Information Analysis Center (MIAC) entitled “The Modern Militia Movement”



Other sections make it too easy for your assets to be taken from you if you fall into the above section, even if you arent charged with anything and it could take months and months before you have you assets returned.

Im not a lawyer and I didnt read the whole Act but it's how I interpret the above.since you read the whole thing maybe you can fill me in.

Stubborn?  Do you even know what that word means?   ::)

Thanks for answering the question.  I don't think your concerns are reasonable.  The act has been in place for ten years and we have not seen simple political protesters, Ron Paul supporters, etc. declared terrorists.  We also have the courts to provide safeguards.  Haven't the courts invalidated portions of the Act? 

And it appears you took your opinion straight from prison planet/Alex Jones/info wars.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/ron-paul-bob-barr-chuck-baldwin-considering-legal-action-over-miac-document.html

http://www.infowars.com/secret-state-police-report-ron-paul-bob-barr-chuck-baldwin-libertarians-are-terrorists/

http://www.dailypaul.com/85970/police-handouts-classifications-for-terrorists-includes-ron-paul-supporters

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Re: Ron Paul-Stop Obama's Unconstitutional Power Grab!
« Reply #40 on: May 31, 2011, 01:46:29 PM »
I took the one line and graphic from a site linked to that site. Again, woopty doo. The rest is from my own observations collecting info. The links you posted dont make the point I was making any less relevant. As a lawyer you should be aware how the wording of the above could be open to abuse and by your own admission the courts arent perfect.

Dos Equis

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Re: Ron Paul-Stop Obama's Unconstitutional Power Grab!
« Reply #41 on: May 31, 2011, 03:39:14 PM »
I took the one line and graphic from a site linked to that site. Again, woopty doo. The rest is from my own observations collecting info. The links you posted dont make the point I was making any less relevant. As a lawyer you should be aware how the wording of the above could be open to abuse and by your own admission the courts arent perfect.

Oh brother.   ::)  Never said I was a lawyer.  You have no idea what I do for a living.  But let me give you a piece of advice:  don't get your information from people who live in Middletown, Ohio or are married to special education teachers.  Not the most reliable folks around.   :)

In any event, most of your post was taken word-for-word from the three links I posted.  Not a big deal, but pretty obvious that you have been relying on talking points.  The view that the Patriot Act will be used to target the average American who participates in the political process is alarmist nonsense. 

Jadeveon Clowney

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Re: Ron Paul-Stop Obama's Unconstitutional Power Grab!
« Reply #42 on: May 31, 2011, 03:45:42 PM »

Lol, why is it always the buffoons who are concerned about being targeted? Serious people are getting on with their lives while the buffoon dundats make mountains out of molehills.

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Re: Ron Paul-Stop Obama's Unconstitutional Power Grab!
« Reply #43 on: May 31, 2011, 03:57:30 PM »
Oh brother.   ::)  Never said I was a lawyer.  You have no idea what I do for a living.  But let me give you a piece of advice:  don't get your information from people who live in Middletown, Ohio or are married to special education teachers.  Not the most reliable folks around.   :)

In any event, most of your post was taken word-for-word from the three links I posted.  Not a big deal, but pretty obvious that you have been relying on talking points.  The view that the Patriot Act will be used to target the average American who participates in the political process is alarmist nonsense. 

I used to think the same way you do about the patriot act, but after further evaluation, it is an abomination and unconstitutional. I for one do not trust the federal government with that kind of power, the potential for abuse and silencing dissent is to great.

Those who would sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither - Benjamin Franklin
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Dos Equis

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Re: Ron Paul-Stop Obama's Unconstitutional Power Grab!
« Reply #44 on: May 31, 2011, 04:00:56 PM »
I used to think the same way you do about the patriot act, but after further evaluation, it is an abomination and unconstitutional. I for one do not trust the federal government with that kind of power, the potential for abuse and silencing dissent is to great.

Those who would sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither - Benjamin Franklin

I agree with the Ben Franklin quote. 

I've heard people complain about the Patriot Act, but never really hear anything specific about it.  Every law has the potential for abuse. 

I don't trust the federal government either. 

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Re: Ron Paul-Stop Obama's Unconstitutional Power Grab!
« Reply #45 on: May 31, 2011, 04:14:07 PM »
The blind and rabid devotion that leaves most Ron Paul fanboys frothing at the mouth anytime someone so much as asks a question about a viewpoint of his is really going to end up turning people off to him. No different than all the assholes who thought Obama was going to be paying for their gas.

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Re: Ron Paul-Stop Obama's Unconstitutional Power Grab!
« Reply #46 on: May 31, 2011, 04:17:16 PM »
Oh brother.   ::)  Never said I was a lawyer.  You have no idea what I do for a living.  But let me give you a piece of advice:  don't get your information from people who live in Middletown, Ohio or are married to special education teachers.  Not the most reliable folks around.   :)

I have no idea what you're taking about. You obviously can't seem to understand when someone is being sarcastic with you, I've only been riding your nuts about reading a 300 page legal document for the last 10 posts or so.


In any event, most of your post was taken word-for-word from the three links I posted.  Not a big deal, but pretty obvious that you have been relying on talking points.  The view that the Patriot Act will be used to target the average American who participates in the political process is alarmist nonsense.  


::) Most of my post was my own expression, minus a paragraph with a graphic. How you could claim any differently is retarded.




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Re: Ron Paul-Stop Obama's Unconstitutional Power Grab!
« Reply #47 on: May 31, 2011, 04:18:29 PM »
The blind and rabid devotion that leaves most Ron Paul fanboys frothing at the mouth anytime someone so much as asks a question about a viewpoint of his is really going to end up turning people off to him. No different than all the assholes who thought Obama was going to be paying for their gas.

Truth. 

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Re: Ron Paul-Stop Obama's Unconstitutional Power Grab!
« Reply #48 on: May 31, 2011, 04:27:36 PM »
I have no idea what you're taking about. You obviously can't seem to understand when someone is being sarcastic with you, I've only been riding your nuts about reading a 300 page legal document for the last 10 posts or so.


::) Most of post was my own expression, minus a paragraph with a graphic. How you could claim any differently is retarded.



Here is what you said:

Quote

The defintions of terrorist, terrorism and domestic terrorism are too broad.  They can ecompass just about any group. WTO protesters or Greenpeace could be considered terrorists/teorrorist organization. I could be participating in a lawfull manner during the WTO affair and still possibly be considered a terrorist through association. Maybe a guy asked me what time it was before he burns down a building and law enforcement saw me "engaging" with him earlier, I could be defined as a terrorist. This section  expands the type of conduct that the government can investigate when it is investigating ""terrorism."

I don't trust the government to make a rational decision as to what conduct falls under the umbrella of terrorism. Does protesting the legalization of  pot count as an act of terrorism? If a politician doesnt want to raise the debt cieling are they an economic terrorist?  If I have a "DON"T TREAD ON ME" bumper sticker, am I a terrorist?

The MIAC report specifically describes supporters of presidential candidates Ron Paul, Chuck Baldwin, and Bob Barr as “militia” influenced terrorists  and instructs the Missouri police to be on the lookout for supporters displaying bumper stickers and other paraphernalia associated with the Constitutional, Campaign for Liberty, and Libertarian parties.

“Missouri Information Analysis Center (MIAC) provides a public safety partnership consisting of local, state and federal agencies, as well as the public sector and private entities that will collect, evaluate, analyze, and disseminate information and intelligence to the agencies tasked with Homeland Security responsibilities in a timely, effective, and secure manner,” explains the MIAC website. “MIAC is the mechanism to collect incident reports of suspicious activities to be evaluated and analyzed in an effort to identify potential trends or patterns of terrorist or criminal operations within the state of Missouri.

Report distributed by the Missouri Information Analysis Center (MIAC) entitled “The Modern Militia Movement”



Other sections make it too easy for your assets to be taken from you if you fall into the above section, even if you arent charged with anything and it could take months and months before you have you assets returned.

Im not a lawyer and I didnt read the whole Act but it's how I interpret the above.since you read the whole thing maybe you can fill me in.

Here is an excerpt from one of the links:

Ron Paul, Bob Barr, Chuck Baldwin Considering Legal Action Over MIAC Document
Kurt Nimmo
Prison Planet.com
Thursday, March 19, 2009

Appearing on the Alex Jones Show today, founder-pastor of Crossroad Baptist Church and presidential nominee of the Constitution Party for the 2008 U.S. Presidential election, Chuck Baldwin, talked about the Missouri Information Analysis Center (MIAC) report designating Baldwin, Ron Paul, Bob Barr supporters and Libertarians as terrorists.

Infowars broke the story on March 11 after Alex Jones received the MIAC document from an anonymous source in the Missouri police.

“The MIAC report specifically describes supporters of presidential candidates Ron Paul, Chuck Baldwin, and Bob Barr as ‘militia’ influenced terrorists and instructs the Missouri police to be on the lookout for supporters displaying bumper stickers and other paraphernalia associated with the Constitutional, Campaign for Liberty, and Libertarian parties,” Kurt Nimmo wrote for Infowars.

On March 13, Paul Joseph Watson, Kurt Nimmo and Alex Jones expanded coverage of the MIAC report.

Mr. Baldwin asserted his strong opposition to the document and Missouri police efforts to characterize mainstream political parties and their supporters as domestic terrorists. The MIAC report specifically links these supporters to “militia” influenced terrorists. “Police are educated in the document that people are are anti-abortion, own gold, display an assortment of U.S. flags, or even those that talk about the film Zeitgeist, view the police as their ‘enemy’ and conflates them with domestic terrorists like Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh, Olympic bomber Eric Rudolph and other domestic militia groups who have been charged with plotting terrorist attacks,” Infowars and Prison Planet reported.

In addition, Baldwin said he collaborated with Ron Paul and Bob Barr on a letter that will be sent to Missouri officials protesting the MIAC report. Mr. Baldwin indicated that if the letter does not result in a repudiation of the MIAC report and its absurd allegations, he and fellow letter signatories will consider legal action.

Chuck Baldwin will send a copy of the letter to Alex Jones. Infowars will post the letter.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/ron-paul-bob-barr-chuck-baldwin-considering-legal-action-over-miac-document.html

And another:

Secret State Police Report: Ron Paul, Bob Barr, Chuck Baldwin, Libertarians are Terrorists

Kurt Nimmo
Infowars
March 11, 2009

Alex Jones has received a secret report distributed by the Missouri Information Analysis Center (MIAC) entitled “The Modern Militia Movement” and dated February 20, 2009. A footer on the document indicates it is “unclassified” but “law enforcement sensitive,” in other words not for public consumption. A copy of the report was sent to Jones by an anonymous Missouri police officer.

The MIAC report specifically describes supporters of presidential candidates Ron Paul, Chuck Baldwin, and Bob Barr as “militia” influenced terrorists and instructs the Missouri police to be on the lookout for supporters displaying bumper stickers and other paraphernalia associated with the Constitutional, Campaign for Liberty, and Libertarian parties.

. . . .

http://www.infowars.com/secret-state-police-report-ron-paul-bob-barr-chuck-baldwin-libertarians-are-terrorists/

Same article is posted on the "Daily Paul" website:  http://www.dailypaul.com/85970/police-handouts-classifications-for-terrorists-includes-ron-paul-supporters 

What a coincidence. 

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Re: Ron Paul-Stop Obama's Unconstitutional Power Grab!
« Reply #49 on: May 31, 2011, 04:32:43 PM »
 I already attested to using that paragraph from another site. Was that really all I posted or are you blind? I dont see any of the following in any link you provided.



The defintions of terrorist, terrorism and domestic terrorism are too broad.  They can ecompass just about any group. WTO protesters or Greenpeace could be considered terrorists/teorrorist organization. I could be participating in a lawfull manner during the WTO affair and still possibly be considered a terrorist through association. Maybe a guy asked me what time it was before he burns down a building and law enforcement saw me "engaging" with him earlier, I could be defined as a terrorist. This section  expands the type of conduct that the government can investigate when it is investigating ""terrorism."

I don't trust the government to make a rational decision as to what conduct falls under the umbrella of terrorism. Does protesting the legalization of  pot count as an act of terrorism? If a politician doesnt want to raise the debt cieling are they an economic terrorist?  If I have a "DON"T TREAD ON ME" bumper sticker, am I a terrorist?


Other sections make it too easy for your assets to be taken from you if you fall into the above section, even if you arent charged with anything and it could take months and months before you have you assets returned.

Im not a lawyer and I didnt read the whole Act but it's how I interpret the above.since you read the whole thing maybe you can fill me in.