True definition of breaking through a plateau

[gh15]

Your theory contradicts what i've seen in real life thousands of times.

hsi theories are facts,,,he is on spot

gh15 approved

[Van_Bilderass]

You can get stronger as a natural for many many years, if for example you're a powerlifter. I've seen it. Setting PRs after training SERIOUSLY for 20 years already.
But it's always due to technique manipulation, finding new exercises which hit weak links in a way you didn't before and so.
But muscle size doesn't even take 2 years to reach approximate max limit if you have someone experienced holding your hand from thebeginning IMO.

[gh15]

Yes they might say it to you, but that's not what they're thinking.

I'll give a personal example. I was discussing with pro X what his goal was for an upcoming show regarding placing.
He goes, "Van, you know as well as I do that it's all about drugs at my level. It all depends on whether I can get/afford enough quality GH. And of course the rest of the anabolics but GH is the main issue. I know I can place well if I have the funds/availability".

Look at Steve Namat. He complains that he doesn't have any money and that's why he hasn't placed that well recently. He doesn't need to tell us what he needs the money for.

Maybe you can give Namat some advice on plateau busters which doesn't involve drugs.

the training and diet matters but if you see a pro break a plateau it always involves improved drug manipulation. Either increasing dosages in general, addition of new types of drugs, better combos and so on.

yes,, gh is very important ,,you should see the face of bodybuild that just found otu he been using bunk gh after few days of using,, that bodybuild i steaming ,,he is so mad that basicaly his all next few months of bodybuild is down the shit if he cant get more money to try to get more new gh that is legit,, it is chase afetr the gh game ,,everyone chase after the gh ,,even if they say they dont they lie! ,,they all chase the gh ,,

when you hear in the gym ,,hey bro youre getting huge ,,YOU ARE GETTING HUGE,, that fella talked about is on gh ,,usualy less than 2 weeks on gh lol it is funny how moment you increase testosterona doses if lean enough and increase anabolic eq and npp doses and add legit gh ,,its  amazing how fast you being desecibed as huge in gyms,,14 days on those products and fellas walk around calling you the next best thing ,,you are getting huge brother!!   ,,lol this show you that bodybuild is all drugs and the ability to put the water into the muscle and create   new size out of the fibers gh creates which by the way happen from the first second gh go in blood,,

gh15 approved

[Griffith]

yes,, gh is very important ,,you should see the face of bodybuild that just found otu he been using bunk gh after few days of using,, that bodybuild i steaming ,,he is so mad that basicaly his all next few months of bodybuild is down the shit if he cant get more money to try to get more new gh that is legit,, it is chase afetr the gh game ,,everyone chase after the gh ,,even if they say they dont they lie! ,,they all chase the gh ,,

when you hear in the gym ,,hey bro youre getting huge ,,YOU ARE GETTING HUGE,, that fella talked about is on gh ,,usualy less than 2 weeks on gh lol it is funny how moment you increase testosterona doses if lean enough and increase anabolic eq and npp doses and add legit gh ,,its  amazing how fast you being desecibed as huge in gyms,,14 days on those products and fellas walk around calling you the next best thing ,,you are getting huge brother!!   ,,lol this show you that bodybuild is all drugs and the ability to put the water into the muscle and create   new size out of the fibers gh creates which by the way happen from the first second gh go in blood,,

gh15 approved

gh15, what type of gains could one expect only using GH?

How much lean muscle could they expect to build without using any test or any other drugs?

[gh15]

using gh byitself will cause 2 things,,reduce bodyfat,, and increase muscle fibers,, you wont see new size of a bodybuild though with out hitting those new muscle fibers with aas inorder to create the new tissue blown from within ,,

so,, hgh by itself is good as a prime,,lets aay you take off 30 day from gym or 60 ,,you do what kevin did ,,you so what ron did you do what any 90s bodybuild do and everyone do since,,you prime on gh ,,only to later blitz it with aas and say to everyone lala lee lala la im huge in a matteer of 3 week,, you dont tell them you were 2 months on gh inorder to prime it all and only then boomed in the aas,,you keep it for yourself ,,to them you say oyu were blesses with gurilla genetic from suckmymuscle book of gurillas,,

hgh by itself is good for people who want to lose fat and keep their lean muscle at optimal levels,,its good for older 35+ individual that bodybuild is nto their main prioritues and they just want to keep looking somewhat in shape and to look young and lively ,,it is good for other health reasons at lower doses,,but yes usualy 40+ 35-40 for those,,

for bodybuild now day,,you better jump on gh from age 20 something if you want to get anywhere

gh15 appoved

[Swlabr]

When should one start using GH?

[dj181]

You can get stronger as a natural for many many years, if for example you're a powerlifter. I've seen it. Setting PRs after training SERIOUSLY for 20 years already.
But it's always due to technique manipulation, finding new exercises which hit weak links in a way you didn't before and so.
But muscle size doesn't even take 2 years to reach approximate max limit if you have someone experienced holding your hand from thebeginning IMO.

Great post man.

[Griffith]

using gh byitself will cause 2 things,,reduce bodyfat,, and increase muscle fibers,, you wont see new size of a bodybuild though with out hitting those new muscle fibers with aas inorder to create the new tissue blown from within ,,

so,, hgh by itself is good as a prime,,lets aay you take off 30 day from gym or 60 ,,you do what kevin did ,,you so what ron did you do what any 90s bodybuild do and everyone do since,,you prime on gh ,,only to later blitz it with aas and say to everyone lala lee lala la im huge in a matteer of 3 week,, you dont tell them you were 2 months on gh inorder to prime it all and only then boomed in the aas,,you keep it for yourself ,,to them you say oyu were blesses with gurilla genetic from suckmymuscle book of gurillas,,

hgh by itself is good for people who want to lose fat and keep their lean muscle at optimal levels,,its good for older 35+ individual that bodybuild is nto their main prioritues and they just want to keep looking somewhat in shape and to look young and lively ,,it is good for other health reasons at lower doses,,but yes usualy 40+ 35-40 for those,,

for bodybuild now day,,you better jump on gh from age 20 something if you want to get anywhere

gh15 appoved

Thanks for the reply.

Would definitely like to try GH sometime when I have more cash.

[BILL ANVIL]

You can get stronger as a natural for many many years, if for example you're a powerlifter. I've seen it. Setting PRs after training SERIOUSLY for 20 years already.
But it's always due to technique manipulation, finding new exercises which hit weak links in a way you didn't before and so.
But muscle size doesn't even take 2 years to reach approximate max limit if you have someone experienced holding your hand from thebeginning IMO.

Truth right there. I havent used ass in over a year, but my compound lifts have gone up since I been off,  just from working on technique and grinding it out week after week. All by doing heavy deads religiously for the last year, even without drugs my total body density ie traps back and delts are bigger now than they ever were. At this point, im deadlifting 2.5X my bodyweight and I really dont expect to go too much further without hormones, although gains are coming very slowly.

Also training like a bodybuilder without drugs is completely pointless, so now I just do the basics and try to go pretty heavy most of the time if my body can dish it out depending on which injury I am nursing at the time (and theres ALWAYS at least 1 thats holding me back!)

Its either hit the gear hard now, or just coast through the rest of my life training 4X a week on an average diet with little pleasure.
Im questioning even doing aas again because I dont wanna speed up my receding hairline, so its all uphill from here.

[youngbb31]

you should see some of the true natural i worked with ,,from 185 they shrink so fast to 165 that not even 30 days past and they were alking around 170-175 and then boom down to 165 within 60 days of not intune with eveyrthign to the t ,,they lost 20lb momeent they were not intune with everything and had to work over time or had to go off creatine and had to resuce training some or couldnt eat as much ,, lol

naturals lose very very fast when it come to lean muscle  180 to under 170 in record time!

gh15 approved

x2..I can attest to this fact personally. Theres a thread somewhere around here with my pics in it I showed you the one I was 188 with everything to the t 3 months ago...and now less than 3 months later in the other pic I was 178, natural lose not only weight but consequently lean mass as well, I didn't get fat but rather I shrunk a little from partying and bullshit not eating say 6-7 times to only 3-4. Anyone who says otherwise is full of it and hasn't experienced it firsthand.

On another note to the topic at hand I had a discussion with a friend about this matter just the other day, now he is someone I respect in regards to bodybuilding since he is regional level npc competitor but at the same time I had a hard time not getting a little frustrated when he was trying to tell me that I am not maxed out at building lean muscle (being 5'10 and 180 fairly lean high singles.) Anyway I was trying to conclude that it was time to go for a swim in some hormones but the man kept insisting i had "untapped potential" . i was like ...

[Steve Namat]

Yes they might say it to you, but that's not what they're thinking.

I'll give a personal example. I was discussing with pro X what his goal was for an upcoming show regarding placing.
He goes, "Van, you know as well as I do that it's all about drugs at my level. It all depends on whether I can get/afford enough quality GH. And of course the rest of the anabolics but GH is the main issue. I know I can place well if I have the funds/availability".

Look at Steve Namat. He complains that he doesn't have any money and that's why he hasn't placed that well recently. He doesn't need to tell us what he needs the money for.

Maybe you can give Namat some advice on plateau busters which doesn't involve drugs.

the training and diet matters but if you see a pro break a plateau it always involves improved drug manipulation. Either increasing dosages in general, addition of new types of drugs, better combos and so on.

I think it's not even worth it to break that fuckin plateau... Sad but true.

[GroinkTropin]

I am really starting to wonder about getbig...

I get it, steroids cause all muscle gain, without them gains are impossible, if you will not post pictures it is because you are a liar, and if you have been training a long time, you MUST be huge, because no one in their right mind ever has changing goals in life.

Gotcha.

Winning forum Ron.

[Disgusted]

I'll give you one example of a totally natural fello I have known for over 20 years. He never had a desire to bodybuild ever. Thoughout the years he got stronger, in fact very strong. This guy hasn't put on an ounce of size in over 20 years and he is VERY freaking strong. I've seen him leg press 1200 pounds and this guy weighed about 170. Getting stronger DOES NOT equal getting bigger. Getting bigger and I mean very big is all drugs. Sorry to crush some egos here or confuse some of the younger guys, but you may as well hear the truth and save yourself all the misery. At least way you are on an even playing field and know the truth.

[Van_Bilderass]

I am really starting to wonder about getbig...

I get it, steroids cause all muscle gain, without them gains are impossible, if you will not post pictures it is because you are a liar, and if you have been training a long time, you MUST be huge, because no one in their right mind ever has changing goals in life.

Gotcha.

Winning forum Ron.

There are plenty of other forums where you'll find almost everyone agreeing with you. So why do you want getbig to be like all the rest? You are free to have your opinion but apparently you have a problem with others disagreeing? Like I said, there's tons of other forums that may fit you better.

Just remembered something that might interest you. Let me know what you think. 

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/891105-post4.html

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/892355-post111.html

[Van_Bilderass]

Getting stronger DOES NOT equal getting bigger. Getting bigger and I mean very big is all drugs.

Do you believe there should be progress in the workouts in other ways than absolute load? Meaning more total work done, same amount of work done in lesser time, more reps with a certain load? Or do you feel you can just keep repeating the same workout and still get optimal results?

[tbombz]

Or do you feel you can just keep repeating the same workout and still get optimal results?

of course not

[dustin]

I am really starting to wonder about getbig...

I get it, steroids cause all muscle gain, without them gains are impossible, if you will not post pictures it is because you are a liar, and if you have been training a long time, you MUST be huge, because no one in their right mind ever has changing goals in life.

Gotcha.

Winning forum Ron.

You're good people, but you'd be happier on bodybuilding.com, bro.

[Disgusted]

Do you believe there should be progress in the workouts in other ways than absolute load? Meaning more total work done, same amount of work done in lesser time, more reps with a certain load? Or do you feel you can just keep repeating the same workout and still get optimal results?

I have always tried to find ways to make my workout harder in terms of intensity and that means either shorter rests or more sets or same amount of work in shorter period of time. I love to workout and love to try and find ways to make it harder and more enjoyable. I have also been in the gym long enough to realize two things. One is that there is a limit to how strong I was going to get no matter what I did and that the stronger I got the more prone to injury I became. Two, I also realize that no matter how I approach my workouts I am not going to get any bigger unless I added drugs and  then more drugs to get even bigger. In the end I tend to stick to the same workout since after all these years I have found what I like to do, but I do change up occasionally not so much to keep the progress going, but for variety. Hope that answered your question bro.

[youngbb31]

of course not

This is not an issue to those who understand bodybuilding, what becomes an issue is when people discount the drugs involved and say yea yea just keep switching things up to blast through plateaus as if theres no natural limit

[Van_Bilderass]

of course not

I'm asking Disgusted.  

Because if he believes in progressively more "intense" workouts then he believes in getting stronger in a way. Otherwise you'll end up doing 100 rep sets with 20 second rest between sets unless you increase load i.e. get stronger.

I basically think Disgusted just doesn't like sloppy lifting since that's an image that easily crops up when people talk about "heavy training". Sloppy with tons of momentum, lifting your ass off the bench and bouncing the weight when pressing, heaving the weight when curling and so on. But you can get stronger even while using perfect form and doing  reps on the higher side.

I have always tried to find ways to make my workout harder in terms of intensity and that means either shorter rests or more sets or same amount of work in shorter period of time. I love to workout and love to try and find ways to make it harder and more enjoyable. I have also been in the gym long enough to realize two things. One is that there is a limit to how strong I was going to get no matter what I did and that the stronger I got the more prone to injury I became. Two, I also realize that no matter how I approach my workouts I am not going to get any bigger unless I added drugs and  then more drugs to get even bigger. In the end I tend to stick to the same workout since after all these years I have found what I like to do, but I do change up occasionally not so much to keep the progress going, but for variety. Hope that answered your question bro.

Wrote the above while you posted. But I think I get you.

[tbombz]

imo the one reason why people dont succeed is sloppy training and over/under training. they annihilate support muscle, instead of stimulating target muscles.

[dyslexic]

I'm very tempted to post some pics that will defy and blow in the face of everything being said here...

I have posted them before, but not the most current.


I will start with one. There was one guy here that nailed exactly what I was (or wasn't) "on" -  he called it long-time hard and solid training.


This, at 43 years old:

[dyslexic]

Me now at 48. I haven't touched a weight in 1 year. No cardio. No dope. Clean eating? BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!

[GroinkTropin]

You're good people, but you'd be happier on bodybuilding.com, bro.

I do not tuck tail and run, especially when I know I am fucking right.

If you haters really need to see an example, I will fucking give you one.

I just had the best workout in the last 5 years, fueled by hatred of the ignorance and stupidity I have been seeing on this forum.

I only have myself to blame that I cannot show you all a better clean physique, and admit that I am a disgrace with respect to what I have been given.

I aim to take some pictures tomorrow at the gym, I haven't really figured out how to take good pictures but I am sure I can get the hang of it. I always look great in the mirror but shitty in pictures, and cannot figure out why. Have to check around for respectable lighting...

I am going to log off for the night by saying this- I will crush all of your pessimistic expectations. All of the crap I keep reading just motivates me to no end, and if that is what it takes to get my ass in the gym then so be it! Whatever it takes!

[cross-of-iron]

It depends what you mean by "without training".

 If you sit on your ass playing video games all day for a year you might lose all your muscle.

 But if you stop lifting weights, but still play sports, bicycle, do yoga, work a physical labor job, etc. You'll keep most of it.

 I've seen it a million times. Naturals will quit lifting, and they'll lose the sharpness and hardness, but the size doesn't drop all that much if they keep on eating well and stay active.

 Weight lifting is not the only way to be active.

First you said you've seen it "thousands" of times now it's "millions." You have virtually no muscle...all skin and bones. You are a angry little closet homo.