Author Topic: Is a calorie................  (Read 8471 times)

no one

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 11917
  • have i hurt your feelings?
Re: Is a calorie................
« Reply #75 on: June 28, 2011, 01:51:07 PM »

heres a sure fire way to end this debate.

all of those who say a calorie is a calorie post your pics.

all those who say a calorie isnt a calorie, post your pics.

whatever group that has the best physiques wins.

simple enough. btw- heres a heads up- it wont be the 'a calorie is just a calorie' group. ;)
b

tlc

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 309
Re: Is a calorie................
« Reply #76 on: June 28, 2011, 02:16:18 PM »
A calorie is a unit of energy.

1 gram of protein has about 4 calories, 1 gram of fat about 9 calories, 1 gram of carbs about 4 calories. This is how much energy is released from these substances if you literally burn them in a test tube.

You body processes these three substances in three different ways, none of which include setting fire to them.

Your goal as a bodybuilder is to increase lean mass and reduce fat. To do this you need to eat enough protein not only to maintain your current lean mass, but to enable you to increase it. About a gram of complete (all essential amino acids in useful ratios, eg. meat,fish,eggs,whey etc.) protein per lb of existing lean body mass will do. Exact numbers will vary slightly from individual to individual.

Maintaining lean mass and increasing it requires energy, which your body gets most efficiently from carbs, and less efficiently from fats, even though fats are more calorie-dense. In extremes it will use existing lean mass for energy, though this is less efficient still.

You therefore need supply your body with carbs and fats. If you don't, your body will start using existing muscle tissue for energy to maintain itself/move about/log on to the internet and jerk off to the cuties thread in the porn section here etc.

You DO NOT need to eat so many carbs/fats that you increase in blubber, while gaining lean mass. Gaining lean mass while maintaining existing amounts of blubber will in itself decrease your bodyfat percentage.

To lose fat you need to deplete your body of carbs and ingest small enough amounts of fat that it is forced to use existing fat stores for energy. Reduce breakdown of existing lean mass by maintaining high enough protein intake and preferably using suitable anabolic compounds. Without the latter you ARE going to lose muscle as well as fat when dieting. Muscle is metabolically expensive to maintain and your body will try to get rid of it in times of stress to reduce your resource requirements. It is greatly hindered in its endeavours in this regard by a hormonal environment aggressively encouraging protein synthesis.

Expend more energy than you take in and you will lose fat. Take in enough energy to maintain and grow muscle and you will do just that.

THESE TWO PROCESSES ARE NOT MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE.

Thus:
Count grams of protein. It's calorific value should be of no interest to you.
Count carb/fat calories. Experience (and the mirror) will tell you if you are eating enough, too little, or too many.

Hope all that was clear.
Captain Fucking Obvious, over and out.

Disgusted

  • Expert
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 13610
Re: Is a calorie................
« Reply #77 on: June 28, 2011, 04:48:50 PM »
just a calorie?  :D :D There was a nutritional expert on the radio who said that a calorie in a doughnut is different than a calorie found in  chicken. He stated that the body processes a calorie from a doughnut different than a calorie from a piece of chicken.

Truth?

Like I have said before, a calorie is a calorie and can't be anything else purely by definition. Now, he is also correct that a calorie from one food will have a different reaction by the body than from another type of food, very simple to understand.

asbrus

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1186
Re: Is a calorie................
« Reply #78 on: June 28, 2011, 04:51:00 PM »
Like I have said before, a calorie is a calorie and can't be anything else purely by definition. Now, he is also correct that a calorie from one food will have a different reaction by the body than from another type of food, very simple to understand.

THIS END THREAD HERE.

asbrus

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1186
Re: Is a calorie................
« Reply #79 on: June 28, 2011, 04:52:27 PM »
A calorie is a unit of energy.

1 gram of protein has about 4 calories, 1 gram of fat about 9 calories, 1 gram of carbs about 4 calories. This is how much energy is released from these substances if you literally burn them in a test tube.

You body processes these three substances in three different ways, none of which include setting fire to them.

Your goal as a bodybuilder is to increase lean mass and reduce fat. To do this you need to eat enough protein not only to maintain your current lean mass, but to enable you to increase it. About a gram of complete (all essential amino acids in useful ratios, eg. meat,fish,eggs,whey etc.) protein per lb of existing lean body mass will do. Exact numbers will vary slightly from individual to individual.

Maintaining lean mass and increasing it requires energy, which your body gets most efficiently from carbs, and less efficiently from fats, even though fats are more calorie-dense. In extremes it will use existing lean mass for energy, though this is less efficient still.

You therefore need supply your body with carbs and fats. If you don't, your body will start using existing muscle tissue for energy to maintain itself/move about/log on to the internet and jerk off to the cuties thread in the porn section here etc.

You DO NOT need to eat so many carbs/fats that you increase in blubber, while gaining lean mass. Gaining lean mass while maintaining existing amounts of blubber will in itself decrease your bodyfat percentage.

To lose fat you need to deplete your body of carbs and ingest small enough amounts of fat that it is forced to use existing fat stores for energy. Reduce breakdown of existing lean mass by maintaining high enough protein intake and preferably using suitable anabolic compounds. Without the latter you ARE going to lose muscle as well as fat when dieting. Muscle is metabolically expensive to maintain and your body will try to get rid of it in times of stress to reduce your resource requirements. It is greatly hindered in its endeavours in this regard by a hormonal environment aggressively encouraging protein synthesis.

Expend more energy than you take in and you will lose fat. Take in enough energy to maintain and grow muscle and you will do just that.

THESE TWO PROCESSES ARE NOT MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE.

Thus:
Count grams of protein. It's calorific value should be of no interest to you.
Count carb/fat calories. Experience (and the mirror) will tell you if you are eating enough, too little, or too many.

Hope all that was clear.
Captain Fucking Obvious, over and out.

MUSCLE WILL BE L0ST IF Y0U G0 0N A L0W FAT DIET UNLESS Y0U'RE 0N DRUGS. FAT WILL SPARE THE MUSCLE.

OneMoreRep

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 14068
Re: Is a calorie................
« Reply #80 on: June 28, 2011, 04:56:13 PM »
Like I have said before, a calorie is a calorie and can't be anything else purely by definition. Now, he is also correct that a calorie from one food will have a different reaction by the body than from another type of food, very simple to understand.

I thought I made this clear early in the thread when I posted this:

A calorie IS a calorie if you are looking to simply lose weight.  In other words, if you want to lose 30 pounds in 2-3 months, make sure to only eat 1000 calories or less per day, regardless of what you eat.  Doing this, you will lose a lot of weight, but your body composition will look shitty.

A calorie IS not a calorie if you want to actually look slim and muscular.  If you consume a decent amount of protein, fats & carbs, all the while maintaining a caloric deficit under 1000 calories, you will also lose a lot of weight, but your end result will be slightly better by way of retaining more muscle mass.

The major difference between the first scenario and the second is that during the first scenario, you don't have to worry about doing any form of exercise.  In the second scenario, exercise will make a huge difference.

What is the problem here?
"1"

Disgusted

  • Expert
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 13610
Re: Is a calorie................
« Reply #81 on: June 28, 2011, 05:03:18 PM »
I thought I made this clear early in the thread when I posted this:

A calorie IS a calorie if you are looking to simply lose weight.  In other words, if you want to lose 30 pounds in 2-3 months, make sure to only eat 1000 calories or less per day, regardless of what you eat.  Doing this, you will lose a lot of weight, but your body composition will look shitty.

A calorie IS not a calorie if you want to actually look slim and muscular.  If you consume a decent amount of protein, fats & carbs, all the while maintaining a caloric deficit under 1000 calories, you will also lose a lot of weight, but your end result will be slightly better by way of retaining more muscle mass.

The major difference between the first scenario and the second is that during the first scenario, you don't have to worry about doing any form of exercise.  In the second scenario, exercise will make a huge difference.

What is the problem here?
"1"

First of all I didn't read your post, Secondly you're wrong. A calorie is a calorie. Can a calorie be a tree? or a car? Of course not, but as you say macros can and will have different effects on the body.. So the problem here is that you do not understand what you are talking about.

OneMoreRep

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 14068
Re: Is a calorie................
« Reply #82 on: June 28, 2011, 05:06:08 PM »
First of all I didn't read your post, Secondly you're wrong. A calorie is a calorie. Can a calorie be a tree? or a car? Of course not, but as you say macros can and will have different effects on the body.. So the problem here is that you do not uinderstand what you are talking about.

I'm not wrong.  

I stated that when you don't care about body composition, a calorie becomes just that, a calorie AND losing weight just becomes an issue of maintaining a caloric deficit.

Yet, when you care about body composition (as in maintaining some type of muscle), a calorie is no longer JUST a calorie, but a unit of energy that should come from a well balanced approach that includes the consumption of proteins, carbs and fats.

...and with regards to this:
Quote
Can a calorie be a tree? or a car? Of course not"

Sure, a calorie also can't be an Indian or an Astronaut, but you're not that stupid either Disgusted.  You know very well that a calorie can come in the form of protein, fat or even that of a carb.

Are we not on the same page Disgusted?

"1"


Disgusted

  • Expert
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 13610
Re: Is a calorie................
« Reply #83 on: June 28, 2011, 05:13:53 PM »
The definition of a calorie which is consistant can not change just because you chose to think of it differently or use it in a certain cenario of your chosing.

 A calorie is a unit of heat measurement nothing more nothing less. Foods "contain" calories, but no one as far as I know is disputing that.

OneMoreRep

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 14068
Re: Is a calorie................
« Reply #84 on: June 28, 2011, 05:15:08 PM »
.

Right Jim, but you know that this phrase regarding a calorie being just a calorie surfaced from Mentzer and them thinking that no matter what you eat, the end result will be the same so as long as the total number of calories consumed are kept low.

In this perspective, the unit of heat definition plays no role, because you have to place it in the perspective of what is being discussed.

Again, agree to disagree on this one.

"1"

Disgusted

  • Expert
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 13610
Re: Is a calorie................
« Reply #85 on: June 28, 2011, 05:19:43 PM »
It can get very complicated when discussing this type of thing and although it should not I can see why. I DO NOT and I think we may be on the same page here, believe that you can eat an abundance of sugar carbs and live as long and as healthy of a life as someone who restricts their carbs. I am not talking zero carbs by any means, but insulin is an aging hormone and these guys who are using slin and or eating and abusing lots of carbs will have health problems later in life.

OneMoreRep

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 14068
Re: Is a calorie................
« Reply #86 on: June 28, 2011, 05:21:15 PM »
It can get very complicated when discussing this type of thing and although it should not I can see why. I DO NOT and I think we may be on the same page here, believe that you can eat an abundance of sugar carbs and live as long and as healthy of a life as someone who restricts their carbs. I am not talking zero carbs by any means, but insulin is an aging hormone and these guys who are using slin and or eating and abusing lots of carbs will have health problems later in life.

That's completely true.

"1"

asbrus

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1186
Re: Is a calorie................
« Reply #87 on: June 28, 2011, 06:25:20 PM »
W0W F0R THE FIRST TIME IN GET BIG HIST0RY I AGREE WITH S0ME 0F THE P0STERS 0N HERE.

tlc

  • Getbig III
  • ***
  • Posts: 309
Re: Is a calorie................
« Reply #88 on: June 29, 2011, 02:48:53 AM »
MUSCLE WILL BE L0ST IF Y0U G0 0N A L0W FAT DIET UNLESS Y0U'RE 0N DRUGS. FAT WILL SPARE THE MUSCLE.

Utter bullshit. Where do you get this voodoo nonsense?

I'm always willing to learn though, perhaps you could point to a peer reviewed scientific study verifying your claim?

Dr Dutch

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19936
  • The Incredible Dr Dutch
Re: Is a calorie................
« Reply #89 on: June 29, 2011, 06:27:14 AM »
W0W F0R THE FIRST TIME IN GET BIG HIST0RY I AGREE WITH S0ME 0F THE P0STERS 0N HERE.
DO YOU AGREE THE CAPSLOCK THING HAS BEEN GOING ON LONG ENOUGH ??

Man of Steel

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19388
  • Isaiah40:28-31 ✝ Romans10:9 ✝ 1Peter3:15
Re: Is a calorie................
« Reply #90 on: June 29, 2011, 06:51:26 AM »
C'mon folks, success in diet is relative to the individual.  I've trained 100% and eaten 100% clean....good results.  I've trained 100% and eaten 100% unclean......not very good results.  I've trained 100% and eaten a mix of clean/unclean.....best results...I don't know?  In the simplist terms I suppose this tells me that a more well-rounded approach is best in terms of diet.  I've trained next to guys that can eat junk food all day, rarely hit cardio and lean out easily.  Me personally, if I get a good mix of clean/unclean and train hard I'll be fine.  If I stop the training and eat purely clean or purely unclean or a mix......I get fat.   The key for me is the exercise.  Still, in general, if you eat 12 cheeseburgers day for a year (all other activity equal) and then suddenly you eat only 10 cheeseburgers a day (all other activity equal) chances are you'll lose weight.  There just isn't a magic formula for all.  Find what works for you and do that.

asbrus

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1186
Re: Is a calorie................
« Reply #91 on: June 29, 2011, 06:53:21 AM »
Utter bullshit. Where do you get this voodoo nonsense?

I'm always willing to learn though, perhaps you could point to a peer reviewed scientific study verifying your claim?

IT'S ALL 0VER THE MEDICAL J0URNALS. FAT SPARES THE MUSCLE. THERE ARE T0NS 0F STUDIES 0UT THERE AND I DID THE RESEARCH MYSELF T00. CARBS ARE A N0N ESSENTIAL FUEL S0URCE. THE B0DY WILL 0NLY BURN AND USE CARbS IF Y0U FEED IT. TRUE FAT ADAPTATI0N INV0LVES N0 CARB L0ADING AND TAKES 2-6 M0NTHS. IN 0RDER F0R THAT T0 HAPPEN TH0UGH FATS NEED T0 BE MAJ0RITY 0F THE DIET PARTICULARY SATURATED FATS. IF GIVEN THE CHANCE THE B0DY WILL RATHER BURN KET0NES 0VER GLUC0SE AND THE BRAIN L0VES THEM T00.

Meso_z

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17954
Re: Is a calorie................
« Reply #92 on: June 29, 2011, 06:57:49 AM »
C'mon folks, success in diet is relative to the individual.  I've trained 100% and eaten 100% clean....good results.  I've trained 100% and eaten 100% unclean......not very good results.  I've trained 100% and eaten a mix of clean/unclean.....best results...I don't know?  In the simplist terms I suppose this tells me that a more well-rounded approach is best in terms of diet.  I've trained next to guys that can eat junk food all day, rarely hit cardio and lean out easily.  Me personally, if I get a good mix of clean/unclean and train hard I'll be fine.  If I stop the training and eat purely clean or purely unclean or a mix......I get fat.   The key for me is the exercise.  Still, in general, if you eat 12 cheeseburgers day for a year (all other activity equal) and then suddenly you eat only 10 cheeseburgers a day (all other activity equal) chances are you'll lose weight.  There just isn't a magic formula for all.  Find what works for you and do that.
What I was going to post exactly..

SF1900

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 48806
  • Team Hairy Chest Henda
Re: Is a calorie................
« Reply #93 on: June 29, 2011, 07:00:58 AM »
If a calorie is just a calorie, can I get big from eating ice cream all day?  :D :D
X

Hulkotron

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 28209
  • I ate an entire box of popsicles the day prior
Re: Is a calorie................
« Reply #94 on: June 29, 2011, 07:08:07 AM »
Got any pics of these nutrition professors?

He is a beast of a man.



He also didn't eat just snack shit entirely, and exercised for 60-80 minutes a week (see video).

funk51

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 39912
  • Getbig!
Re: Is a calorie................
« Reply #95 on: June 29, 2011, 07:28:48 AM »
I've read he sort of advocated calorie is a calorie, am I right?
correct, i guess that's how he rationlized going to macdonalds on his lunchbreak from the er
F

BIG ACH

  • Competitors II
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 8526
Re: Is a calorie................
« Reply #96 on: June 29, 2011, 07:43:56 AM »

A Calorie is a Calorie
Not to be confused with a mallory
but a gram is not a gram
pay attention here sam
protein is protein
and carbs are carbs
and that leaves you with fat
stuffed so far in your hat
on top of the cat
are you blind as a bat?
lift some weights for god's sake
And maybe then some muscles you'll make!
And be so proud, you'll jump naked in a lake.
Surround yourself by more men, and stop acting so fake!

 ???


EKnight

  • Getbig II
  • **
  • Posts: 33
Re: Is a calorie................
« Reply #97 on: July 02, 2011, 04:06:19 PM »
The notion of "post your pics, and we'll end the debate" is pointless. To presume that knowledge about a bodybuilding topic is relative to and dependent upon physique is laughable. I've benched pressed three times my body weight, drug free, in a sanctioned event- does that mean everyone else who hasn't done that (which I'm guessing is the entire freaking board) has less knowledge about powerlifting than I do? Doubtful. -EK

YoungBlood

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 6777
  • Weee!
Re: Is a calorie................
« Reply #98 on: July 02, 2011, 04:31:13 PM »

A calorie is a calorie. A calorie is not a forest, a race car, a track runner nor is a calorie a tanker floating through the Pacific Ocean (unless you're speaking of Jay Cutlers back).

A calorie will be burned differently, depending on if it's a calorie from carbohydrate, protein or fat. This is where the confusion comes in.

OneMoreRep was correct when he said "in terms of weight loss a calorie is a calorie." You will lose weight as long as your body is in a deficit and you're burning more than you eat. If you're not losing yet still in a deficit, congratulations you're the first person in the history of earth to defy the laws of thermodynamics. Your body composition may not be ideal, you may not look like Rich Gaspari with striated glutes, but you will have lost weight.

How the body reacts to each macronutrient and how each of those nutrients are processed is very different.

People confuse how the body reacts to each calorie source, and this is where the whole debate of a calorie being a calorie or not comes from. Like a pound of fat does not equal a pound of muscle. How can one pound of two different things weight any different, as long as each of them is a pound?!

tbombz

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19350
  • Psalms 150
Re: Is a calorie................
« Reply #99 on: July 02, 2011, 04:41:40 PM »