Author Topic: Herman Cain Says U.S. Communities 'Have the Right' to Ban Mosques  (Read 1973 times)

Mr. Magoo

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Re: Herman Cain Says U.S. Communities 'Have the Right' to Ban Mosques
« Reply #50 on: July 19, 2011, 08:26:21 PM »
no again you misunderstand...he feels they try to pass sharia law for everyone...not just them so they will try to pass it so that you have to abide by it...

the issue of who has political authority is a separate issue from should any community have a right to ban mosques.

Any enforcement of sharia law (a beating, a killing, etc) is already covered under existing laws. The U.S. government (in theory) has a monopoly on force, so the political organizations that promote sharia law would not be able to enforce sharia law given the already existing political structure and existing laws. I guess I should admit that the only way they would be able to enforce sharia law is by social methods (shunning those who don't follow, etc) as Mill discusses in On Liberty. But this would not be an issue because that would not be applicable to the entire society, only those members who specifically endorse sharia law.

I don't think the sharia law issue has any merit.

Mr. Magoo

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Re: Herman Cain Says U.S. Communities 'Have the Right' to Ban Mosques
« Reply #51 on: July 19, 2011, 08:30:25 PM »
cain doesnt advocate the outright ban of mosques, he went on to explain that it should be taken with caution and that if they feel they are promoting sharia law then they should have the right to refuse their establishing a church in their community...

DID YOU EVEN READ THE ARTICLE?

To put in simple terms, if communities have a right to come together for a majority vote to ban mosques in said community, then I highly doubt there would be hardly any "caution" and I have a hunch that most people who vote to ban the mosque will claim that they feel the mosque is promoting sharia law.

Which I think the issue I've already discussed in this thread is the real underlying issue.

tonymctones

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Re: Herman Cain Says U.S. Communities 'Have the Right' to Ban Mosques
« Reply #52 on: July 19, 2011, 08:49:26 PM »
the issue of who has political authority is a separate issue from should any community have a right to ban mosques.

Any enforcement of sharia law (a beating, a killing, etc) is already covered under existing laws. The U.S. government (in theory) has a monopoly on force, so the political organizations that promote sharia law would not be able to enforce sharia law given the already existing political structure and existing laws. I guess I should admit that the only way they would be able to enforce sharia law is by social methods (shunning those who don't follow, etc) as Mill discusses in On Liberty. But this would not be an issue because that would not be applicable to the entire society, only those members who specifically endorse sharia law.

I don't think the sharia law issue has any merit.
FACE PALM!!!

I agree its already addressed what he is saying is that they will try to OVERRIDE US law with SHARIA LAW...

Mr. Magoo

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Re: Herman Cain Says U.S. Communities 'Have the Right' to Ban Mosques
« Reply #53 on: July 19, 2011, 08:50:37 PM »
FACE PALM!!!

I agree its already addressed what he is saying is that they will try to OVERRIDE US law with SHARIA LAW...

I'm saying it wont happen, can't happen, and is therefore not an issue.

tonymctones

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Re: Herman Cain Says U.S. Communities 'Have the Right' to Ban Mosques
« Reply #54 on: July 19, 2011, 08:58:20 PM »
I'm saying it wont happen, can't happen, and is therefore not an issue.
And im saying that he is saying that the FACT they will try...makes them a political organization...

Mr. Magoo

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Re: Herman Cain Says U.S. Communities 'Have the Right' to Ban Mosques
« Reply #55 on: July 19, 2011, 09:06:12 PM »
And im saying that he is saying that the FACT they will try...makes them a political organization...

Could you define "political organization"?

Do you mean a political party that tries to get laws passed that fit their own agenda, or do you mean a political authority that imposes force to implement their rules that might contradict U.S. law, or do you have a different meaning in mind?

I'm having trouble seeing how either option merits a ban.

tonymctones

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Re: Herman Cain Says U.S. Communities 'Have the Right' to Ban Mosques
« Reply #56 on: July 19, 2011, 09:10:09 PM »
Could you define "political organization"?

Do you mean a political party that tries to get laws passed that fit their own agenda, or do you mean a political authority that imposes force to implement their rules that might contradict U.S. law, or do you have a different meaning in mind?

I'm having trouble seeing how either option merits a ban.
first of all he doesnt advocate the right ban mosques he says that if they feel A, as in singular promotes sharia law and is therefor a political organization they should have the right to not allow them in their community...

show me you have actually read the article before we continue...

Mr. Magoo

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Re: Herman Cain Says U.S. Communities 'Have the Right' to Ban Mosques
« Reply #57 on: July 19, 2011, 09:16:23 PM »
first of all he doesnt advocate the right ban mosques he says that if they feel A, as in singular promotes sharia law and is therefor a political organization they should have the right to not allow them in their community...

show me you have actually read the article before we continue...

just reread it for a refresher. To sum up my feelings: I don't think any community has a right to ban a mosque for it being solely a mosque (that includes what is taught in that mosque, despite whether members of the community agree with that teaching). I don't think any mosque deserves to be banned even if they promote sharia law. I don't think sharia law is a relevant issue that poses any danger in our political climate and I don't think its possible to pose any danger in our political climate. I find the fears of the community unwarranted and I believe they are acting unconstitutional but trying to cleverly cover it up. To put simply, I find the issue appalling.

I'm going to assume they advocate a "political organization", I still don't see how that merits a ban, which lead me to ask you how do you define "political organization"?

OzmO

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Re: Herman Cain Says U.S. Communities 'Have the Right' to Ban Mosques
« Reply #58 on: July 19, 2011, 11:06:49 PM »
This might be a stupid question because I do not know too much about sharia law, but does any of it violate basic human rights, our constitutional rights or state laws?  :D

If so, then it should be not allowed. Period, no exceptions. 

Dos Equis

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Re: Herman Cain Says U.S. Communities 'Have the Right' to Ban Mosques
« Reply #59 on: July 21, 2011, 12:09:57 PM »
just reread it for a refresher. To sum up my feelings: I don't think any community has a right to ban a mosque for it being solely a mosque (that includes what is taught in that mosque, despite whether members of the community agree with that teaching). I don't think any mosque deserves to be banned even if they promote sharia law. I don't think sharia law is a relevant issue that poses any danger in our political climate and I don't think its possible to pose any danger in our political climate. I find the fears of the community unwarranted and I believe they are acting unconstitutional but trying to cleverly cover it up. To put simply, I find the issue appalling.

I'm going to assume they advocate a "political organization", I still don't see how that merits a ban, which lead me to ask you how do you define "political organization"?

You should do some reading about sharia law and what radical Islamists want to do. 

Mr. Magoo

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Re: Herman Cain Says U.S. Communities 'Have the Right' to Ban Mosques
« Reply #60 on: July 21, 2011, 12:57:48 PM »
You should do some reading about sharia law and what radical Islamists want to do. 

I think I understand the point, but I still don't see how that merits banning mosques. Let's say that there is a mosque down the street advocating the killing of all women who take off the whatever they call it. There is no recognition of the authority of that political force (for example, I would say "they have no authority to pass and enforce laws"). So, for instance, let's say some woman who attends that mosque decides to take hers off, and she is killed. Whoever it was that did the killing (assuming the justice system works) will be put in jail, just like if a guy killed a woman in a non-mosque setting. The sharia law or the promotion of sharia law is not the issue, it's the enforcement of sharia law that I think people are worried about (i.e. the killing) . The justice system already set up by a recognized political authority (our government) would rectify any harsh punishments (murder for example) that would result from the teaching at that mosque.

Our basic human rights are already established and cannot be removed by a majority vote in constitutional democracy. We do not live in a majoritarian democracy (My city cant vote in slavery). Anyone who violates such laws (by killing, making people slaves, etc) are already banned by our laws. I don't see how that gives communities a "right" to ban any mosque if they fear (even falsely) that the mosque in the neighborhood is promoting sharia law. I still say that Cain is wrong in saying any community has a right to ban mosques (ignoring such practical issues as already stated like not following building codes, etc etc). To allow the banning of some mosques (which does include the possibility of banning all mosques) is a violation of recognized human rights and I don't think the sharia law aspect changes that (as discussed in the first paragraph)

chadstallion

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Re: Herman Cain Says U.S. Communities 'Have the Right' to Ban Mosques
« Reply #61 on: July 21, 2011, 12:57:56 PM »
This might be a stupid question because I do not know too much about sharia law, but does any of it violate basic human rights, our constitutional rights or state laws?  :D

If so, then it should be not allowed. Period, no exceptions. 
bingo.
"they'' would have to take over local, city, state governments and try to repeal all sorts of laws.
finally, when 'they' take over the supreme court, they could declare 'their' laws legal.
simple, huh?
 ;D
w