Author Topic: S&P downgrades US to AA+  (Read 3319 times)

Soul Crusher

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Re: S&P downgrades US to AA+
« Reply #25 on: August 07, 2011, 06:45:35 AM »
eggactly  ;D just got done eating 8 egg whites,but your right, you won't find it  it on this site though because to many here just follow party lines while their own party fu#ks them over.what do you expect when most get their news from just one source foooox news :D


Hey dips hit. It took 225 years to get to 10 trillion in debt.   Obama has blown through almost half of that in 2 years.   

blacken700

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Re: S&P downgrades US to AA+
« Reply #26 on: August 07, 2011, 06:51:55 AM »

Hey dips hit. It took 225 years to get to 10 trillion in debt.   Obama has blown through almost half of that in 2 years.   

and the repubs are the best thing since slice bread  :D :D :D keep watching your fox news and lisening to beck and rush  :D

he also said      Until conservatives once again hold Republicans to the same standard they hold Democrats, they will have no credibility and deserve no respect. They can start building some by admitting to themselves that Bush caused many of the problems they are protesting 

Soul Crusher

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Re: S&P downgrades US to AA+
« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2011, 06:55:25 AM »
and the repubs are the best thing since slice bread  :D :D :D keep watching your fox news and lisening to beck and rush  :D

he also said      Until conservatives once again hold Republicans to the same standard they hold Democrats, they will have no credibility and deserve no respect. They can start building some by admitting to themselves that Bush caused many of the problems they are protesting 


And? 

Skip8282

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Re: S&P downgrades US to AA+
« Reply #28 on: August 07, 2011, 07:00:37 AM »
News is reporting that Israel has temp stopped trading on the news.  Any of you business savvy people think we should stop it Monday morning?  Give it some time maybe?

Soul Crusher

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Re: S&P downgrades US to AA+
« Reply #29 on: August 07, 2011, 07:04:54 AM »
News is reporting that Israel has temp stopped trading on the news.  Any of you business savvy people think we should stop it Monday morning?  Give it some time maybe?

This has been in the making since 2008. 

Skip8282

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Re: S&P downgrades US to AA+
« Reply #30 on: August 07, 2011, 07:10:39 AM »
This has been in the making since 2008. 

I'm kind of thinking they should just stop trading for the day and just take a breath to see what's going on around the world, maybe rethink things, I dunno know.

But I don't have the business acumen to really know what that would do, how it would help/harm things, etc., so maybe somebody else has some thoughts on it.

Soul Crusher

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Re: S&P downgrades US to AA+
« Reply #31 on: August 07, 2011, 07:13:37 AM »
I'm kind of thinking they should just stop trading for the day and just take a breath to see what's going on around the world, maybe rethink things, I dunno know.

But I don't have the business acumen to really know what that would do, how it would help/harm things, etc., so maybe somebody else has some thoughts on it.

Like I keep saying, until we get rid of the psychotic leftists running the admn, things will only get drastically worse. 

Fury

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Re: S&P downgrades US to AA+
« Reply #32 on: August 07, 2011, 07:15:51 AM »
I'm kind of thinking they should just stop trading for the day and just take a breath to see what's going on around the world, maybe rethink things, I dunno know.

But I don't have the business acumen to really know what that would do, how it would help/harm things, etc., so maybe somebody else has some thoughts on it.

Asian markets open at 5 PM. Saudi Arabia's Tadawul dropped 5% yesterday. This evening and tomorrow should be very interesting.

Soul Crusher

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Re: S&P downgrades US to AA+
« Reply #33 on: August 07, 2011, 09:00:34 AM »
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Dollar to Be 'Discarded' by World: China Rating Agency
CNBC ^ | 7 Aug 2011 | Ee Sing Wong
Posted on August 7, 2011 12:08:35 PM EDT by barmag25

The man who leads one of China’s top rating agencies says the greenback’s status as the world’s reserve currency is set to wane as the world’s most powerful policy makers convene to examine the implication of S&P’s decision to strip the United States of its triple “A” rating.

In comments emailed to CNBC, Guan Jianzhong, chairman of Dagong Global Credit Rating, said the currency is “gradually discarded by the world,” and the “process will be irreversible.”

Dagong made headlines last week when it became the first rating agency to cut its U.S. credit rating from “A+” to “A” after policymakers in Washington failed to act in a timely manner to lift its debt celing.

However, the announcement failed to register in the markets as investors have yet to decide whether to take the Beijing-based company seriously.

(Excerpt) Read more at cnbc.com ...

TOPICS: Business/Economy; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; Click to Add Topic
KEYWORDS: Click to Add Keyword

Soul Crusher

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Re: S&P downgrades US to AA+
« Reply #34 on: August 07, 2011, 09:03:00 AM »
S&P Explains Why The "$2 Trillion Error" Is Irrelevant
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 08/07/2011 11:14 -0400

Baseline Scenario Congressional Budget Office Gross Domestic Product Nominal GDP None ratings


Yesterday we showed that when it comes to projections, the CBO's own track record makes S&P shine in comparison. Apparently this fact was not lost on S&P itself which sent out a note explaining which "clarified assumption used on discretionary spending growth." Basically, as S&P says, "Our ratings are determined primarily using a 3-5 year time horizon. In the near term horizon, by 2015, the U.S. net general government debt with the new assumptions were projected to be $14.5 trillion (79% of 2015 GDP) versus $14.7 trillion (81% of 2015 GDP) with the initial assumption – a difference of $345 billion." So yes, while by 2021 the difference could be $2.1 trillion based on the CBO's current baseline model, the truth is that the CBO's own estimate on revenue and spending projections in a decade will likely have a +/- $10 trillion margin of error. So does anyone really care? In essence all S&P did was point out what Zero Hedge and others have been saying: that a "deficit cutting" plan which is massively back end loaded and has about $20 billion in cuts over the next year is absolutely without credit or merit. And the disingenuity on the side of Treasury to believe that someone would think otherwise is simply appalling. That said, while the markets look set to crash very shortly, the overabundance of catalysts means that it will be more than just the downgrade that throws risk into a tailspin. Although prepare for an all out onslaught by the Treasury on S&P as a scapegoat. After all in USSAA(negative outlook) it is never our fault: it is always someone else's.

Full S&P note:

Standard & Poor’s Clarifies Assumption Used On Discretionary Spending Growth
 
New York, Aug. 6, 2011. In response to questions, Standard & Poor’s today said that the ratings decision to lower the long-term rating to AA+ from AAA was not affected by the change of assumptions regarding the pace of discretionary spending growth. In the near term horizon to 2015, the U.S. net general government debt is projected to be $14.5 trillion (79% of 2015 GDP) versus $14.7 trillion (81% of 2015 GDP) with the initial assumption.
 
We used the Alternative Fiscal Scenario of the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO), which includes an assumption that government discretionary appropriations will grow at the same rate as nominal GDP. In further discussions between Standard & Poor’s and Treasury, we determined that the CBO’s Baseline Scenario, which assumes discretionary appropriations grow at a lower rate, would be more consistent with CBO assessment of the savings set out by the Budget Control Act of 2011.
 
Our ratings are determined primarily using a 3-5 year time horizon.
 
In the near term horizon, by 2015, the U.S. net general government debt with the new assumptions were projected to be $14.5 trillion (79% of 2015 GDP) versus $14.7 trillion (81% of 2015 GDP) with the initial assumption – a difference of $345 billion.
 
In taking a longer term horizon of 10 years, the U.S. net general government debt level with the current assumptions would be $20.1 trillion (85% of 2021 GDP). With the original assumptions, the debt level was projected to be $22.1 trillion (93% of 2021 GDP).
 
The primary focus remained on the current level of debt, the trajectory of debt as a share of the economy, and the lack of apparent willingness of elected officials as a group to deal with the U.S. medium term fiscal outlook. None of these key factors was meaningfully affected by the assumption revisions to the assumed growth of discretionary outlays and thus had no impact on the rating decision.



Www.zero hedge.com


Soul Crusher

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Re: S&P downgrades US to AA+
« Reply #35 on: August 07, 2011, 09:04:57 AM »
S&P executive: 1 in 3 chance of future downgrade

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WASHINGTON (AP) -- A Standard & Poor's official says there is a 1 in 3 chance that the U.S. credit rating could be downgraded another notch if conditions erode over the next six to 24 months.

The credit rating agency's managing director, John Chambers, tells ABC's "This Week" that if the fiscal position of the U.S. deteriorates further, or if political gridlock tightens even more, a further downgrade is possible.

Chambers also said Sunday that it would take "stabilization and eventual decline" of the federal debt as a share of the economy as well as more consensus in Washington for the U.S. to win back a top rating.

S&P downgraded the U.S. rating Friday, from AAA to AA+, for the first time.

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Soul Crusher

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Re: S&P downgrades US to AA+
« Reply #36 on: August 07, 2011, 09:08:55 AM »
ABC Financial Expert Slapping S&P As 'Suspect' Is Undisclosed Obama Fundraiser
NewsBusters ^ | August 07, 2011 | Mark Finkelstein
Posted on August 7, 2011 10:43:52 AM EDT by SanFranDan

The predictable MSM reaction to Standard & Poor's downgrading of the US government's credit rating? Kill the messenger, of course. Yesterday, we noted how Jeff Glor at CBS' Early Show parroted the Obama line about the downgrade being "political."

Today it was ABC's turn. Good Morning America had on Mellody Hobson, a regular ABC "financial contributor" and former host of her own ABC financial-advice show. Hobson hit S&P hard, expressing the view that "everything that they do is suspect."

There's just one little factoid ABC didn't share with viewers. While presented as a presumably objective financial expert, Chicagoan Hobson in fact is an Obama partisan.

Hobson served as a big-time fundraiser during Obama's 2008 presidential campaign and is involved with his 2012 campaign.

(Excerpt) Read more at newsbusters.org ...

Fury

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Re: S&P downgrades US to AA+
« Reply #37 on: August 07, 2011, 09:18:16 AM »
Obama can add another to his mantle: The man who got the US downgraded to AA.

Congrats, God-King! Keep up the good work destroying saving America!

Soul Crusher

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Re: S&P downgrades US to AA+
« Reply #38 on: August 07, 2011, 09:22:05 AM »
According to team kneepad I am the one fear mongering.   

Soul Crusher

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Re: S&P downgrades US to AA+
« Reply #39 on: August 07, 2011, 09:26:06 AM »
After S&P Downgrade, ‘Sunday Night, Pray’ and Other Thoughts From Traders
Yahoo/Finance ^ | 8/7/11 | Chris Nichols
Posted on August 7, 2011 10:50:11 AM EDT by EBH

Monday and Tuesday, he says, will be "very critical," because if the market can absorb the first downgrade in U.S. history, that would create confidence -- but that still has to be seen...

...So what's next? Three options, he notes: Liquidate positions, hold your ground or wait for a larger decline that will open up entry points for long positions.

"This will be no different than any other day for us, but we suspect that several hedge funds will be reporting problems, along with margin problems at many of the CME's firms," he says. "Just because the stock market/S&P has sold off 160 handles in the last 10 days does not mean that the markets won't be down sharply. They will be..."

...Simon Baker, the chief executive of Baker Avenue Asset Management, says he's been completely in cash since the middle of June, when his firm's market sentiment indicators went negative and volatility began to rise sharply.

For Baker Avenue, it won't be a quiet weekend, he explains via email. "We have a special investment committee meeting Sunday afternoon to review all strategies and possible scenarios on Monday," he says, followed by, "Sunday night, pray."

(Excerpt) Read more at finance.yahoo.com ...

garebear

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Re: S&P downgrades US to AA+
« Reply #40 on: August 07, 2011, 09:28:46 AM »
Take that, dips hit!
G

quadzilla456

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Re: S&P downgrades US to AA+
« Reply #41 on: August 07, 2011, 09:42:22 AM »
The deficit in 2008 was 3%. Not great but very managable. Before the Dems took control of Congress it was 2% or under, which is acceptable and below the past 40 year average. It is now 11% of GDP. There is no comparison. Lets talk about the pink elephant here. Obama is the most incompetent and pathetic leader of my lifetime and one of the worst presidents ever. He is one of the least qualified men to be president ever. This guy is a whole new ball game my friend. We will have much better presidents in the future and aalso medicore  presidents, and even some more bad presideints,  but it is unlikely we will have another one THIS bad again in my lifetime, Democrat or Republican. Thank God.
Obama is a turd no doubt. He is actually very dangerous because he'll say all the right things to whichever audience is listening and then shamelessly backtrack on ALL his promises. That's why the powers that be love him.

That being said Bush was just as much a douche. They are all whores.

tonymctones

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Re: S&P downgrades US to AA+
« Reply #42 on: August 07, 2011, 10:40:40 AM »
Obama is a turd no doubt. He is actually very dangerous because he'll say all the right things to whichever audience is listening and then shamelessly backtrack on ALL his promises. That's why the powers that be love him.

That being said Bush was just as much a douche. They are all whores.
indeed sir, I do believe one that at least feins interest in doing whats right for the country would be better than what we have now...

not until ppl start actually caring about what happens in this country will it start to change. Sadly the way the govt has set up the entitlements this will likely never happen.

Skip8282

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Re: S&P downgrades US to AA+
« Reply #43 on: August 07, 2011, 10:50:16 AM »
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Dollar to Be 'Discarded' by World: China Rating Agency
CNBC ^ | 7 Aug 2011 | Ee Sing Wong
Posted on August 7, 2011 12:08:35 PM EDT by barmag25

The man who leads one of China’s top rating agencies says the greenback’s status as the world’s reserve currency is set to wane as the world’s most powerful policy makers convene to examine the implication of S&P’s decision to strip the United States of its triple “A” rating.

In comments emailed to CNBC, Guan Jianzhong, chairman of Dagong Global Credit Rating, said the currency is “gradually discarded by the world,” and the “process will be irreversible.”

Dagong made headlines last week when it became the first rating agency to cut its U.S. credit rating from “A+” to “A” after policymakers in Washington failed to act in a timely manner to lift its debt celing.

However, the announcement failed to register in the markets as investors have yet to decide whether to take the Beijing-based company seriously.

(Excerpt) Read more at cnbc.com ...

TOPICS: Business/Economy; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; Click to Add Topic
KEYWORDS: Click to Add Keyword



Maybe he needs to go on another world apology tour...that'll help.  ::)

GigantorX

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Re: S&P downgrades US to AA+
« Reply #44 on: August 07, 2011, 02:29:24 PM »

Soul Crusher

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Re: S&P downgrades US to AA+
« Reply #45 on: August 07, 2011, 02:38:32 PM »
America “Makes The Cut” – So What Happens Next?


Around the world, starting Monday, all eyes are on the markets. The tension is palpable. The uncertainty is ample. And anger is heavy in the air. As predicted, the debt ceiling deal was not only NOT enough to assuage economic fears, it actually exacerbated them, triggering a flight from the Dow, and creating a decisive opportunity for ratings agency S&P to cut the once perfect U.S. credit rating from AAA to AA+.

At Alt-Market, we often talk about points of balance, and how certain moments in history become highly visible indicators of balance lost. If we pay close attention, and know what we are looking for, these moments can be recognized, allowing us time to shield ourselves from the explosion and the resulting financial shrapnel. The past two weeks have culminated into one of these defining events that tell us the tide has fully turned, and something new and dangerous is just over the horizon. The question now is; what should we expect?

The nature of the credit downgrade situation is not necessarily “unprecedented” in history, but it is surely unprecedented on the scale we see currently in the U.S. It is difficult to predict how exactly the investment world will react. Some consequences, though, are probable, if not inevitable. Let’s examine the events we are likely to see in the coming weeks as well as the coming months, as nations attempt to adjust to America’s final plunge…

1) Ratings Agencies Under Attack

This has already begun. Italian authorities have raided the offices of S&P and Moody’s, apparently perturbed that their credit rating is not under their control. The U.S. is accusing S&P of making “accounting mistakes” and jumping the gun on the American downgrade. The battle between insolvent governments and the ratings agencies from here on will escalate quickly. More offices will be investigated and raided. The mainstream media will try to assert that the downgrades are “not that important”, and that the U.S. will recover quite nicely without a perfect score. Eventually, as the collapse becomes more evident, ratings agencies will fill the role as the go to scapegoat / economic hitman at which all governments will point accusing fingers.

“S&P is gonna’ cut you man! S&P’s a blade-man, man!”

In my view, it’s all theater. First, let’s set aside the recent ratings cuts altogether and look at the facts. The U.S. should have been downgraded years ago, especially after the Federal Reserve decided to begin purchasing U.S. Treasury Bonds in place of dwindling foreign interest and turned to monetizing our debt to the point of rampant inflation. Italy and numerous other EU members should have been downgraded to junk status a long time ago as well. If anything, the ratings agencies over the past few years have been PROTECTING the credit reputations of many countries which in no way deserve it. The recent downgrades are long overdue…

Second, suddenly governments and MSM pundits feel it necessary to point out the large part ratings agencies played in the derivatives bubble and subsequent credit crisis? Please! They were perfectly content with S&P or Moody’s giving fraudulent top ratings for toxic garbage securities, and even defended agency actions after the bubble burst! Now, after they finally start doing their jobs by downgrading bad debt, governments want an investigation?

Third, ratings agencies were not alone in the creation of the derivatives bubble. The private Federal Reserve artificially lowered interest rates and flooded the markets with cheap fiat. International banks used this fast money to create the easy mortgage groundswell and the derivatives poison that was fed it into the system. Ratings agencies went along with the scam and graded the worthless securities as AAA. The federal government and the SEC allowed all of this to take place by purposely ignoring the crime and refusing to apply existing regulations in investigating the fraud.

The Bottom line? You CANNOT create an economic crisis like the one we face today without collusion between big business, government, regulatory bodies, and ratings agencies. The Obama Administration is well aware of this, and the attacks on S&P are nothing more than a show. S&P is not to blame for the downgrade this past weekend. They are ALL to blame.

2) Increased Borrowing Costs

While the mainstream will attempt to downplay the effects of a U.S. downgrade, they cannot deny that our country’s borrowing costs have just gone up. This causes several unfortunate circumstances to develop. Our ability to continue funding our liabilities is now greatly diminished, unless we turn to the Federal Reserve even more in the purchasing of treasury bonds. If investors and central banks can’t get AAA protection for their money in America, they will simply turn to other countries that still retain a top credit rating. The safety of dollars and treasuries already held by other countries will come under question. In response to the S&P downgrade, China, our largest creditor, has openly stated that U.S. securities can no longer be trusted, and that the dollar must be replaced as the world reserve currency. If the dollar does not take an immediate dive starting this week, it certainly will over the course of the Fall season. There are, indeed, many direct consequences in light of a U.S. downgrade. Anyone who says otherwise is living in dreamland.

3) European Union Feeling The Pain

The EU is on a direct interception course with disaster, just as we are, however, being that the U.S. dollar is a widespread world reserve currency, all nations will be affected by our particular downgrade, as opposed to the Greek downgrade, for example, whose effects were minor in comparison.

The European Central Bank has initiated its own TARP measures, and due to the quickening implosion of Spain and Italy, is fully prepared to print fiat Euros in a desperate attempt to control the damage. European reliance on the American consumer has proved fatal. The result is an ever expanding avalanche of fiat on both sides of the Atlantic in an insane race to the bottom between our respective currencies. This development fits perfectly with the IMF plan to introduce Special Drawing Rights (the SDR) as the new global reserve currency, though I’m sure it’s all just a coincidence…

The ECB is also facing serious resistance from Germany, which has been shelling out the largest portion of bailout funds for countries like Greece, Ireland, and Portugal. Germany is tired of playing sugar daddy to the EU, which could conceivably lead to a breakup of the union itself, even with the implementation of fiat injections.

4) Blame Game Overdrive

The blame game is about to get ugly. When economic catastrophe is on the line, civility goes out the window. Who will be the primary target besides ratings agencies? Why fiscal conservatives, of course! Obviously, the Tea Party is full of “terrorists”, and real conservatives are the true culprit behind the collapse because we have this annoying tendency of pointing out that our spending addicted government is dragging us hogtied on a speedboat to Hades.

Please, America, don’t blame the Federal Reserve for feeding the derivatives bubble and destroying our currency. Don’t fret over global banks like Goldman Sachs that deliberately conjured the credit crisis. Don’t attack the government for lending a helping hand to these entities in their quest for complete financial centralization. Instead, shoot the messenger. We love that…

5) Drastic Measures

An announcement by the Fed of yet a third QE stimulus package is a certainty. If the market reaction is especially negative this week, an announcement could even be made before this month is out. I have no doubt, QE3 will be the undoing of this country. Any further devaluation of the dollar will NOT be tolerated by creditor nations who have much to lose if the process of U.S. inflation continues. Treasuries will be dumped. The dollar will be dumped. And, America will have little choice but to hyperinflate to keep up with rising debt burdens.

Those who believe that the U.S. is not expendable in terms of the world economy, and believe that foreign nations will continue pouring money into our coffers because they “have to”, are kidding themselves. We are dealing with an engineered global shift. For central bankers, the U.S. economy is no less expendable than an aging sports car. It can easily be replaced with something newer, shinier, and more compact. Something that will get more girls. The call for “international regulation” of U.S. finances will become the rallying cry of elites across the planet, as well as the largest holders of our exponential debt. The current system will be sacrificed to make way for an IMF controlled body of unaccountable economic overseers.

This is not theory. This is not conjecture. This is reality. The credit downgrade of the U.S. is a concrete trigger point that sets all of the above proceedings in motion.

People will ask for hypotheses on time frames for the events above. I don’t have any, though this week’s market attitudes will be revealing as to the speed that events will take shape. So many interacting factors are present that any specific time predictions on the progress of collapse would be unrealistic. For the short term, watch Federal Reserve activity carefully. Introduction of new QE will be extraordinarily volatile. For the long term, watch wholesale and retail prices of goods, along with treasury auctions and foreign flights from U.S. bonds. One thing is certain, the final half of 2011 will be remembered as a historical turning point for us all.  That said, the trials ahead were never the issue. That which is most important is how we RESPOND in these moments. How we adapt. How we function. How we fight back. Disasters do not make history. We make history. As overwhelming as the currents of such events may feel, in the end, they are subservient to the actions of resolved men. Nothing is fated. The conclusion depends upon us.



http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2011/08/07/warning-us-loses-aaa-credit-rating-consequences-will-be-dire



Necrosis

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Re: S&P downgrades US to AA+
« Reply #46 on: August 07, 2011, 03:40:21 PM »
United States of America Long-Term Rating Lowered To 'AA+' On Political Risks And Rising Debt Burden; Outlook Negative

We have lowered our long-term sovereign credit rating on the United States of America to 'AA+' from 'AAA' and affirmed the 'A-1+' short-term rating.

We have also removed both the short- and long-term ratings from CreditWatch negative.

The downgrade reflects our opinion that the fiscal consolidation plan that Congress and the Administration recently agreed to falls short of what, in our view, would be necessary to stabilize the government's medium-term debt dynamics.

More broadly, the downgrade reflects our view that the effectiveness, stability, and predictability of American policymaking and political institutions have weakened at a time of ongoing fiscal and economic challenges to a degree more than we envisioned when we assigned a negative outlook to the rating on April 18, 2011.

Since then, we have changed our view of the difficulties in bridging the gulf between the political parties over fiscal policy, which makes us pessimistic about the capacity of Congress and the Administration to be able to leverage their agreement this week into a broader fiscal consolidation plan that stabilizes the government's debt dynamics any time soon.

The outlook on the long-term rating is negative. We could lower the long-term rating to 'AA' within the next two years if we see that less reduction in spending than agreed to, higher interest rates, or new fiscal pressures during the period result in a higher general government debt trajectory than we currently assume in our base case.

Rating Action

On Aug. 5, 2011, Standard & Poor's Ratings Services lowered its long-term sovereign credit rating on the United States of America to 'AA+' from 'AAA'. The outlook on the long-term rating is negative. At the same time, Standard & Poor's affirmed its 'A-1+' short-term rating on the U.S. In addition, Standard & Poor's removed both ratings from CreditWatch, where they were placed on July 14, 2011, with negative implications.

The transfer and convertibility (T&C) assessment of the U.S.--our assessment of the likelihood of official interference in the ability of U.S.-based public- and private-sector issuers to secure foreign exchange for debt service--remains 'AAA'.

Rationale

We lowered our long-term rating on the U.S. because we believe that the prolonged controversy over raising the statutory debt ceiling and the related  fiscal policy debate indicate that further near-term progress containing the growth in public spending, especially on entitlements, or on reaching an agreement on raising revenues is less likely than we previously assumed and will remain a contentious and fitful process. We also believe that the fiscal consolidation plan that Congress and the Administration agreed to this week falls short of the amount that we believe is necessary to stabilize the general government debt burden by the middle of the decade.

Our lowering of the rating was prompted by our view on the rising public debt burden and our perception of greater policymaking uncertainty, consistent with our criteria (see "Sovereign Government Rating Methodology and Assumptions," June 30, 2011, especially Paragraphs 36-41). Nevertheless, we view the U.S. federal government's other economic, external, and monetary credit attributes, which form the basis for the sovereign rating, as broadly unchanged.

We have taken the ratings off CreditWatch because the Aug. 2 passage of the Budget Control Act Amendment of 2011 has removed any perceived immediate threat of payment default posed by delays to raising the government's debt ceiling. In addition, we believe that the act provides sufficient clarity to allow us to evaluate the likely course of U.S. fiscal policy for the next few years.

The political brinksmanship of recent months highlights what we see as America's governance and policymaking becoming less stable, less effective,  and less predictable than what we previously believed. The statutory debt ceiling and the threat of default have become political bargaining chips in the debate over fiscal policy. Despite this year's wide-ranging debate, in our view, the differences between political parties have proven to be extraordinarily difficult to bridge, and, as we see it, the resulting agreement fell well short of the comprehensive fiscal consolidation program that some proponents had envisaged until quite recently. Republicans and Democrats have only been able to agree to relatively modest savings on discretionary spending while delegating to the Select Committee decisions on more comprehensive measures. It appears that for now, new revenues have dropped down on the menu of policy options. In addition, the plan envisions only minor policy changes on Medicare and little change in other entitlements, the containment of which we and most other independent observers regard as key to long-term fiscal sustainability.

Our opinion is that elected officials remain wary of tackling the structural issues required to effectively address the rising U.S. public debt burden in a manner consistent with a 'AAA' rating and with 'AAA' rated sovereign peers (see Sovereign Government Rating Methodology and Assumptions," June 30, 2011, especially Paragraphs 36-41). In our view, the difficulty in framing a consensus on fiscal policy weakens the government's ability to manage public finances and diverts attention from the debate over how to achieve more balanced and dynamic economic growth in an era of fiscal stringency and private-sector deleveraging (ibid). A new political consensus might (or might not) emerge after the 2012 elections, but we believe that by then, the government debt burden will likely be higher, the needed medium-term fiscal adjustment potentially greater, and the inflection point on the U.S. population's demographics and other age-related spending drivers closer at hand (see "Global Aging 2011: In The U.S., Going Gray Will Likely Cost Even More Green, Now," June 21, 2011).

Standard & Poor's takes no position on the mix of spending and revenue measures that Congress and the Administration might conclude is appropriate for putting the U.S.'s finances on a sustainable footing.

The act calls for as much as $2.4 trillion of reductions in expenditure growth over the 10 years through 2021. These cuts will be implemented in two steps: the $917 billion agreed to initially, followed by an additional $1.5 trillion that the newly formed Congressional Joint Select Committee on Deficit Reduction is supposed to recommend by November 2011. The act contains no measures to raise taxes or otherwise enhance revenues, though the committee could recommend them.

The act further provides that if Congress does not enact the committee's recommendations, cuts of $1.2 trillion will be implemented over the same time period. The reductions would mainly affect outlays for civilian discretionary spending, defense, and Medicare. We understand that this fall-back mechanism is designed to encourage Congress to embrace a more balanced mix of expenditure savings, as the committee might recommend.

We note that in a letter to Congress on Aug. 1, 2011, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimated total budgetary savings under the act to be at least $2.1 trillion over the next 10 years relative to its baseline assumptions. In updating our own fiscal projections, with certain modifications outlined below, we have relied on the CBO's latest "Alternate Fiscal Scenario" of June 2011, updated to include the CBO assumptions contained in its Aug. 1 letter to Congress. In general, the CBO's "Alternate Fiscal Scenario" assumes a continuation of recent Congressional action overriding existing law.

We view the act's measures as a step toward fiscal consolidation. However, this is within the framework of a legislative mechanism that leaves open the details of what is finally agreed to until the end of 2011, and Congress and the Administration could modify any agreement in the future. Even assuming that at least $2.1 trillion of the spending reductions the act envisages are implemented, we maintain our view that the U.S. net general government debt burden (all levels of government combined, excluding liquid financial assets) will likely continue to grow. Under our revised base case fiscal scenario--which we consider to be consistent with a 'AA+' long-term rating and a negative outlook--we now project that net general government debt would rise from an estimated 74% of GDP by the end of 2011 to 79% in 2015 and 85% by 2021. Even the projected 2015 ratio of sovereign indebtedness is high in relation to those of peer credits and, as noted, would continue to rise under the act's revised policy settings.

Compared with previous projections, our revised base case scenario now assumes that the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts, due to expire by the end of 2012, remain in place. We have changed our assumption on this because the majority of Republicans in Congress continue to resist any measure that would raise revenues, a position we believe Congress reinforced by passing the act. Key macroeconomic assumptions in the base case scenario include trend real GDP growth of 3% and consumer price inflation near 2% annually over the decade.   

Our revised upside scenario--which, other things being equal, we view as consistent with the outlook on the 'AA+' long-term rating being revised to stable--retains these same macroeconomic assumptions. In addition, it incorporates $950 billion of new revenues on the assumption that the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts for high earners lapse from 2013 onwards, as the Administration is advocating. In this scenario, we project that the net general government debt would rise from an estimated 74% of GDP by the end of 2011 to 77% in 2015 and to 78% by 2021.

Our revised downside scenario--which, other things being equal, we view as being consistent with a possible further downgrade to a 'AA' long-term  rating--features less-favorable macroeconomic assumptions, as outlined below and also assumes that the second round of spending cuts (at least $1.2 trillion) that the act calls for does not occur. This scenario also assumes somewhat higher nominal interest rates for U.S. Treasuries. We still believe that the role of the U.S. dollar as the key reserve currency confers a government funding advantage, one that could change only slowly over time, and that Fed policy might lean toward continued loose monetary policy at a time of fiscal tightening. Nonetheless, it is possible that interest rates could rise if investors re-price relative risks. As a result, our alternate scenario factors in a 50 basis point (bp)-75 bp rise in 10-year bond yields relative to the base and upside cases from 2013 onwards. In this scenario, we project the net public debt burden would rise from 74% of GDP in 2011 to 90% in 2015 and to 101% by 2021.

Our revised scenarios also take into account the significant negative revisions to historical GDP data that the Bureau of Economic Analysis announced on July 29. From our perspective, the effect of these revisions underscores two related points when evaluating the likely debt trajectory of the U.S. government. First, the revisions show that the recent recession was deeper than previously assumed, so the GDP this year is lower than previously thought in both nominal and real terms. Consequently, the debt burden is slightly higher. Second, the revised data highlight the sub-par path of the current economic recovery when compared with rebounds following previous post-war recessions. We believe the sluggish pace of the current economic recovery could be consistent with the experiences of countries that have had financial crises in which the slow process of debt deleveraging in the private sector leads to a persistent drag on demand. As a result, our downside case scenario assumes relatively modest real trend GDP growth of 2.5% and inflation of near 1.5% annually going forward.

When comparing the U.S. to sovereigns with 'AAA' long-term ratings that we view as relevant peers--Canada, France, Germany, and the U.K.--we also observe, based on our base case scenarios for each, that the trajectory of the U.S.'s net public debt is diverging from the others. Including the U.S., we estimate that these five sovereigns will have net general government debt to GDP ratios this year ranging from 34% (Canada) to 80% (the U.K.), with the U.S. debt burden at 74%. By 2015, we project that their net public debt to GDP ratios will range between 30% (lowest, Canada) and 83% (highest, France), with the U.S. debt burden at 79%. However, in contrast with the U.S., we project that the net public debt burdens of these other sovereigns will begin to decline, either before or by 2015.

Standard & Poor's transfer T&C assessment of the U.S. remains 'AAA'. Our T&C assessment reflects our view of the likelihood of the sovereign restricting other public and private issuers' access to foreign exchange needed to meet debt service. Although in our view the credit standing of the U.S. government has deteriorated modestly, we see little indication that official interference of this kind is entering onto the policy agenda of either Congress or the Administration. Consequently, we continue to view this risk as being highly remote.

Outlook

The outlook on the long-term rating is negative. As our downside alternate fiscal scenario illustrates, a higher public debt trajectory than we currently
assume could lead us to lower the long-term rating again. On the other hand, as our upside scenario highlights, if the recommendations of the Congressional Joint Select Committee on Deficit Reduction--independently or coupled with other initiatives, such as the lapsing of the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts for high earners--lead to fiscal consolidation measures beyond the minimum mandated, and we believe they are likely to slow the deterioration of the government's debt dynamics, the long-term rating could stabilize at 'AA+'.

On Monday, we will issue separate releases concerning affected ratings in the funds, government-related entities, financial institutions, insurance, public finance, and structured finance sectors.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/sp-downgrades-us-aa-outlook-negative-full-text



Thanks, Obama. I'm actually shocked S&P had the balls to do this. Where were these ratings agencies in 2008 when they were labeling all that mortgage-based trash AAA? Well, better late than never as the US hasn't been AAA for years.

Perhaps this will convey to liberals the severity of our debt problems. However, I doubt it.

You fucktard, the document produced blames repubs for the downgrade right in the text. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOOL OL

jesus ignorance is bliss.

Soul Crusher

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Re: S&P downgrades US to AA+
« Reply #47 on: August 07, 2011, 03:42:49 PM »
Wrong moron - they said the spending cuts are not nearly enough and not likely to get enacted. 


We need to cut spending - how hard is that for you to grasp moron? 

Necrosis

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Re: S&P downgrades US to AA+
« Reply #48 on: August 07, 2011, 03:46:26 PM »
Wrong moron - they said the spending cuts are not nearly enough and not likely to get enacted. 


We need to cut spending - how hard is that for you to grasp moron? 


oh did they? mind pointing out were in the 9 page document they highlighted that as the reason?

do we have to do this? its going to be embarassing for you.

Skip8282

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Re: S&P downgrades US to AA+
« Reply #49 on: August 07, 2011, 03:57:05 PM »
You fucktard, the document produced blames repubs for the downgrade right in the text. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOOL OL

jesus ignorance is bliss.



::)




i would leave out the ad-hominems because its an obvious sign of someone loosing an argument.