Author Topic: Architects & Engineers - Solving the Mystery of WTC 7  (Read 66389 times)

240 is Back

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 102396
  • Complete website for only $300- www.300website.com
Re: Architects & Engineers - Solving the Mystery of WTC 7
« Reply #150 on: August 31, 2011, 09:27:18 PM »
Wrong, jones was given documented metals from towers from workers, employers and bustanders.  Really.

Disgusted

  • Expert
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 13610
Re: Architects & Engineers - Solving the Mystery of WTC 7
« Reply #151 on: August 31, 2011, 09:49:28 PM »
So basically the planes were a decoy to divert our attentions from the bombs that went off.

jwb

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5803
Re: Architects & Engineers - Solving the Mystery of WTC 7
« Reply #152 on: August 31, 2011, 10:41:05 PM »
Wrong, jones was given documented metals from towers from workers, employers and bustanders.  Really.
He was sent dust from a house nearby that contained dust from the collapse and also dust already in the loft (they didn't sterilize the place that morning after all). A loft,mind you, that a sculptor who uses welding equipment happens to live and work in also.

All he has to do is give some of that dust to other scientists to analyze which he refuses to do.

As for he two papers in peer reviewed journals, people upset about those papers were offered a chance to refute them so long as they paid the $700-$3000 publishing fee Jones paid to get published.

Jaime

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4933
  • North Pole, fucking elves left, right and centre.
Re: Architects & Engineers - Solving the Mystery of WTC 7
« Reply #153 on: September 01, 2011, 05:19:17 AM »
Both of America's entrys in to the world wars were false flag operations, they also had plans that have subsequently been released to do the same with Cuba. Countless coups, terrorist funding and drugs running are also their favorite past times, zero doubt that 911 was false flag, just look at history.
Trans Milkshake.

The Showstoppa

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 26879
  • Call the vet, cause these pythons are sick!
Re: Architects & Engineers - Solving the Mystery of WTC 7
« Reply #154 on: September 01, 2011, 05:21:14 AM »
 ::)

crownshep

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3256
  • Getbig!
Re: Architects & Engineers - Solving the Mystery of WTC 7
« Reply #155 on: September 01, 2011, 05:37:46 AM »
This was on the other night on the BBC over here in England.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0148yz5/The_Conspiracy_Files_9_11_Ten_Years_On/

crownshep

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 3256
  • Getbig!
Re: Architects & Engineers - Solving the Mystery of WTC 7
« Reply #156 on: September 01, 2011, 05:42:20 AM »
Interesting part at 31.47 with Professor Niels Harrit talking about the red and grey chips,which he says were thermite.Officials say it was chips of paint.

dr.chimps

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 28635
  • Chimpus ergo sum
Re: Architects & Engineers - Solving the Mystery of WTC 7
« Reply #157 on: September 01, 2011, 06:28:39 AM »
::)
C'mon, bro. Lose the attitude. Conspiracy theories are the constant solace of the uneducated, and the dispossessed. 

/hey. who's got a relative that knows all about area 51!?    ::)

Jaime

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4933
  • North Pole, fucking elves left, right and centre.
Re: Architects & Engineers - Solving the Mystery of WTC 7
« Reply #158 on: September 01, 2011, 08:31:40 AM »
C'mon, bro. Lose the attitude. Conspiracy theories are the constant solace of the uneducated, and the dispossessed. 

/hey. who's got a relative that knows all about area 51!?    ::)



For an intelligent guy that's a pretty ignorant perspective to have.

Declassified documents emerge everyday, that would go some way toward making even the most ridiculous viewpoint have some validity.
Trans Milkshake.

Jack T. Cross

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4098
  • Using Surveillance for Political Subversion(?)
Re: Architects & Engineers - Solving the Mystery of WTC 7
« Reply #159 on: September 01, 2011, 09:54:25 AM »
Z. P. Bazant and Y. Zhou,
"Why Did the World Trade Center Collapse?",
Society for Industrial and Applied Mathematics News, vol. 34, No. 8 (October, 2001).

Bazant, Z.P., & Zhou, Y.
"Addendum to 'Why Did the World Trade Center Collapse? - Simple Analysis"  (pdf)
Journal of Engineering Mechanics v. 128, no. 3, (2002): 369-370.

Brannigan, F.L.
"WTC: Lightweight Steel and High-Rise Buildings"
Fire Engineering v.155, no. 4, (2002): 145-150.

Clifton, Charles G.  
Elaboration on Aspects of the Postulated Collapse of the World Trade Centre Twin Towers
HERA: Innovation in Metals. 2001. 13 December 2001.

"Construction and Collapse Factors"
Fire Engineering v.155, no. 10, (2002): 106-108.

Corbett, G.P.
"Learning and Applying the Lessons of the WTC Disaster"
Fire Engineering v.155, no. 10, (2002.): 133-135.

"Dissecting the Collapses"
Civil Engineering ASCE v. 72, no. 5, (2002): 36-46.

Eagar, T.W., & Musso, C.
"Why Did the World Trade Center Collapse? Science, Engineering, and Speculation"
JOM v. 53, no. 12, (2001): 8-12.

Federal Emergency Management Agency, Therese McAllister, report editor.
World Trade Center Building Performance Study: Data Collection, Preliminary Observations, and Recommendations

Gabrielson, T.B., Poese, M.E., & Atchley, A.A.
"Acoustic and Vibration Background Noise in the Collapsed Structure of the World Trade Center"
The Journal of Acoustical Society of America v. 113, no. 1, (2003): 45-48.

"Collapse Lessons"
Fire Engineering v. 155, no. 10, (2002): 97-103

Marechaux, T.G.
"TMS Hot Topic Symposium Examines WTC Collapse and Building Engineering"
JOM, v. 54, no. 4, (2002): 13-17.

Monahan, B.
"World Trade Center Collapse-Civil Engineering Considerations"
Practice Periodical on Structural Design and Construction v. 7, no. 3, (2002): 134-135.

Newland, D.E., & Cebon, D.
"Could the World Trade Center Have Been Modified to Prevent Its Collapse?"
Journal of Engineering Mechanics v. 128, no. 7, (2002):795-800.

National Instititue of Stamdards and Technology: Congressional and Legislative Affairs
 “Learning from 9/11: Understanding the Collapse of the World Trade Center”
Statement of  Dr. Arden L. Bement, Jr., before Committee of Science House of Representatives, United States Congress on March 6, 2002.

Pinsker, Lisa, M.
"Applying Geology at the World Trade Center Site"
Geotimes v. 46, no. 11, (2001).

Post, N.M.
"No Code Changes Recommended in World Trade Center Report"
ENR v. 248, no. 14, (2002): 14.

Post, N.M.
"Study Absolves Twin Tower Trusses, Fireproofing"
ENR v. 249, no. 19, (2002): 12-14.

The University of Sydney, Department of Civil Engineering
World Trade Center - Some Engineering Aspects
A resource site.

"WTC Engineers Credit Design in Saving Thousands of Lives"
ENR v. 247, no. 16, (2001): 12.

C'mon, bro. It took me 15 seconds to find several websites using this list.

When did I ever say the I wouldn't be surprised if the CIA didn't know what was about to happen? That would not shock me at all.

Now we're getting somewhere!  What makes you say that?  IF some figures in the CIA knew beforehand, why do you think they chose to allow the death and destruction?  I'd be very interested to know what you think about this.

Jack T. Cross

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4098
  • Using Surveillance for Political Subversion(?)
Re: Architects & Engineers - Solving the Mystery of WTC 7
« Reply #160 on: September 01, 2011, 09:57:06 AM »
C'mon, bro. Lose the attitude. Conspiracy theories are the constant solace of the uneducated, and the dispossessed.  

/hey. who's got a relative that knows all about area 51!?    ::)

Honestly, Chimps, comparing area 51 with this particular subject just shows you haven't thought about it at all.  And you're a lot better than that. 

Sorry, bro.

StanZoLOL

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 1682
Re: Architects & Engineers - Solving the Mystery of WTC 7
« Reply #161 on: September 01, 2011, 10:11:43 AM »
Honestly, Chimps, comparing area 51 with this particular subject just shows you haven't thought about it

x2

jwb

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5803
Re: Architects & Engineers - Solving the Mystery of WTC 7
« Reply #162 on: September 01, 2011, 11:21:23 AM »
Jack,

Simply because the track record of the CIA is terrible, including the treatment of US citizens.

In regards to the dust samples Jones found many types of Spherules but only mentioned 3. If there was thermite he would have found mainly the same type in high volume since the amount of thermite to bring down three buildings would have been enormous. Also, spherules can come from many many sources including plastics, fly ash, welding flume, grinding residue.

The ONLY way he can use this dust is to compare it to control samples from several high rise construction sites.

quadzilla456

  • Time Out
  • Getbig IV
  • *
  • Posts: 3497
  • Getbig!
Re: Architects & Engineers - Solving the Mystery of WTC 7
« Reply #163 on: September 01, 2011, 03:27:35 PM »
Jack,

Simply because the track record of the CIA is terrible, including the treatment of US citizens.

In regards to the dust samples Jones found many types of Spherules but only mentioned 3. If there was thermite he would have found mainly the same type in high volume since the amount of thermite to bring down three buildings would have been enormous. Also, spherules can come from many many sources including plastics, fly ash, welding flume, grinding residue.

The ONLY way he can use this dust is to compare it to control samples from several high rise construction sites.
The CIA did not receive a bad track record by accident. They achieved this via the very criminal type of behavior they and the government are accused of regarding 911. You cannot divorce the two. A bad track record does not happen because they were good guys. Then they would have a good track record - lol!

quadzilla456

  • Time Out
  • Getbig IV
  • *
  • Posts: 3497
  • Getbig!
Re: Architects & Engineers - Solving the Mystery of WTC 7
« Reply #164 on: September 01, 2011, 03:28:53 PM »
And the concrete in the towers was not reinforced but simply 100mm thick slabs poured for each floor.
The slabs have nothing to do with resisting the urge of the building to collapse under gravity. That is the job of the steel columns, concrete columns, concrete footings, and concrete shafts. Every skyscraper on the planet have massive amounts of concrete in them, even all steel structures. The footings are always concrete.

But the 100mm thick slabs most likely still had steel bars in them. And so do the buildings that burned in the examples I gave you. Most likely they had metal deck flooring with concrete pours. Sometimes the floors have prefabbed concrete floor planks. And of course they are supported by either steel beams or steel trusses.

No modern skyscraper consists exclusively of concrete columns, beams and flooring throughout or steel for that matter. Not even the Empire State Building. And certainly not the burning examples I gave. There is almost always a lot of steel and concrete combined.

Don't for a second think these buildings that burned and did not collapse were much different structurally from WTC 7.

tbombz

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19350
  • Psalms 150
Re: Architects & Engineers - Solving the Mystery of WTC 7
« Reply #165 on: September 01, 2011, 03:40:44 PM »
anyone who believes it was an inside job should read spying blind by amy zegart and richard clarkes against all enemies.

Nails

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 36504
  • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsi5VTzJpPw
Re: Architects & Engineers - Solving the Mystery of WTC 7
« Reply #166 on: September 01, 2011, 03:47:35 PM »
anyone who believes it was an inside job should read spying blind by amy zegart and richard clarkes against all enemies.


jwb

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5803
Re: Architects & Engineers - Solving the Mystery of WTC 7
« Reply #167 on: September 01, 2011, 04:02:14 PM »
Quad,

The thing can never be known is how badly the debris from wtc1 actually damaged wtc7.

The black guy interviewed who was stuck in the building said he got down to around floor six and the fire escape was missing beneath his feet so he had to go back up and across to the undamaged side of the building and use the fire escape there.

 Wtc6 between wtc7 and wtc1 was smashed like a pancake by wtc1.

Don't forget wtc7 had a foundation smaller than it's footprint because of the subway station and power substation underneath it so it was supported by cross trusses on around floor 5. That is very different than a normal building.

We also know from pictures taken throughout the day that there were chunks of wtc7 collapsing off the sides and NYFD guys have said the building was losing its shape.

The big thing is, as someone mentioned, they would of had to cd wtc7 anyway after the fires went out. They still would have gotten the insurance money. The building in Madrid wasn't fixed it was destroyed because of the damage. The columns in wtc7 would have been warped from the fire alone.

The building didn't need to come down that day.

 

quadzilla456

  • Time Out
  • Getbig IV
  • *
  • Posts: 3497
  • Getbig!
Re: Architects & Engineers - Solving the Mystery of WTC 7
« Reply #168 on: September 01, 2011, 04:22:48 PM »
Quad,

The thing can never be known is how badly the debris from wtc1 actually damaged wtc7.

The black guy interviewed who was stuck in the building said he got down to around floor six and the fire escape was missing beneath his feet so he had to go back up and across to the undamaged side of the building and use the fire escape there.

 Wtc6 between wtc7 and wtc1 was smashed like a pancake by wtc1.

Don't forget wtc7 had a foundation smaller than it's footprint because of the subway station and power substation underneath it so it was supported by cross trusses on around floor 5. That is very different than a normal building.

We also know from pictures taken throughout the day that there were chunks of wtc7 collapsing off the sides and NYFD guys have said the building was losing its shape.

The big thing is, as someone mentioned, they would of had to cd wtc7 anyway after the fires went out. They still would have gotten the insurance money. The building in Madrid wasn't fixed it was destroyed because of the damage. The columns in wtc7 would have been warped from the fire alone.

The building didn't need to come down that day.

 

The only problem is that no matter how badly it was damaged the building would not have collapsed free fall like it did with all the columns giving away simultaneously. That is impossible.

Now if a mountain the size of Everest fell on WTC 7 it would collapse at the speed at which the mountain is falling - gravity. But this collapse would happen immediately as the mountain came down on it. This would happen because the massive weight of the mountain would instantly overwhelm all the columns at the base. They were never designed to withstand such a massive load. And thus you would expect all the columns to fail simultaneously. But under it's own weight there is no chance in hell of this happening to all the columns. One or two yes, but not all of them. The columns were designed to support loads many times the dead weight of the building and live loads added on to it.

So you are saying WTC 1 & 2 fell on WTC 7 and damaged it. Fine, but then WTC 7 stood for hours. And suddenly it collapses demolition style as if a mountain came down on it?? It would not have stood for hours and then suddenly collapsed uniformly like it did. Many columns at the base would have remained and provided resistance. This building would have collapsed partially if the damage was that bad.

tbombz

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19350
  • Psalms 150
Re: Architects & Engineers - Solving the Mystery of WTC 7
« Reply #169 on: September 01, 2011, 05:05:41 PM »



anyone who believes it was an inside job should read spying blind by amy zegart and richard clarkes against all enemies.

Jack T. Cross

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4098
  • Using Surveillance for Political Subversion(?)
Re: Architects & Engineers - Solving the Mystery of WTC 7
« Reply #170 on: September 01, 2011, 05:06:41 PM »
Simply because the track record of the CIA is terrible, including the treatment of US citizens.

So would you then put it past rogue members of the CIA to help cultivate such a plot as the hijackings?  After all, if in fact they allowed it to happen with foreknowledge, it would suggest they wanted it to happen.

jwb

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 5803
Re: Architects & Engineers - Solving the Mystery of WTC 7
« Reply #171 on: September 01, 2011, 05:12:24 PM »
So would you then put it past rogue members of the CIA to help cultivate such a plot as the hijackings?  After all, if in fact they allowed it to happen with foreknowledge, it would suggest they wanted it to happen.

Serious question.
Info may not have been acted upon properly in a self serving manner is all I wouldn't be surprised happened.

tbombz

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19350
  • Psalms 150
Re: Architects & Engineers - Solving the Mystery of WTC 7
« Reply #172 on: September 01, 2011, 05:20:50 PM »
the cia and fbi had information that if shared with eachother could have prevented at least one of the planes.

but the two organizations have a very thick atmosphere of competitiveness between them and do not like each other nor cooperate with each other even though there were several attempts made throughout the 90's to get them to work together.

if you read those two books i listed you will know about the reason for intelligence failures and all about al qaeda and how they had been planning these attacks for a decade.  the amy zegart book goes into detail about the problems that existed at the cia and fbi.. mainly a culture which didnt promote cooperation, incentives which promoted real time data instead of long term analysis, and a lack of focus on key issues..   the richard clarke book goe sinto detail about al qaeda's planning and lead up to 9/11..

if this were an inside job the people in charge of it must have mind control powers and started planning t decades in advance because the people who carried out the attacks planned them on their own, for their own reasons.. and even a few of them got caught in the process.   for example a lap top was discovered in the phillipenes after two high level al qaeda operatives were arrested which contained plannes for hi-jacking airplanes and flying them ito buildings.. this was mid 90's..     

theres countless other facts and details which strongly support the notion that the story we heard from the government is the true story..


i will admit the way the buildings fell sure does look like a demolition though.

Jack T. Cross

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4098
  • Using Surveillance for Political Subversion(?)
Re: Architects & Engineers - Solving the Mystery of WTC 7
« Reply #173 on: September 01, 2011, 06:11:13 PM »
Info may not have been acted upon properly in a self serving manner is all I wouldn't be surprised happened.

Meaning that individual figures in the CIA may have allowed simple laziness to stop them from acting properly upon intelligence, or...?

Trying to get at what you're saying here.

Jack T. Cross

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4098
  • Using Surveillance for Political Subversion(?)
Re: Architects & Engineers - Solving the Mystery of WTC 7
« Reply #174 on: September 01, 2011, 06:15:59 PM »
the cia and fbi had information that if shared with eachother could have prevented at least one of the planes.

but the two organizations have a very thick atmosphere of competitiveness between them and do not like each other nor cooperate with each other even though there were several attempts made throughout the 90's to get them to work together.

if you read those two books i listed you will know about the reason for intelligence failures and all about al qaeda and how they had been planning these attacks for a decade.  the amy zegart book goes into detail about the problems that existed at the cia and fbi.. mainly a culture which didnt promote cooperation, incentives which promoted real time data instead of long term analysis, and a lack of focus on key issues..   the richard clarke book goe sinto detail about al qaeda's planning and lead up to 9/11..

if this were an inside job the people in charge of it must have mind control powers and started planning t decades in advance because the people who carried out the attacks planned them on their own, for their own reasons.. and even a few of them got caught in the process.   for example a lap top was discovered in the phillipenes after two high level al qaeda operatives were arrested which contained plannes for hi-jacking airplanes and flying them ito buildings.. this was mid 90's..     

theres countless other facts and details which strongly support the notion that the story we heard from the government is the true story..


i will admit the way the buildings fell sure does look like a demolition though.

I've read Clarke's book.  I'll check out the other probably toward the end of this month.