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Author Topic: Westboro Baptist Church family disowns daughter 20/20  (Read 5250 times)
garebear
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« Reply #50 on: September 10, 2011, 10:12:55 AM »

Agnostic007,  where did you get those quotes from?  I never pegged you for someone to spread slander and misinformation.

You are either mistaken or pompously lying.  I've told you many times that according to the Bible, people don't go to hell for rejecting Jesus Christ's gift of forgiveness and eternal life.  People go to hell to pay for their own many sins.  It doesn't matter how good a person is, they still have many sins.  Jesus Christ, by his own words, is the only way to forgiveness of sins and the only way to Heaven.  

Still need the training wheels, huh? I feel for ya.
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« Reply #51 on: September 10, 2011, 10:29:17 AM »

Your last sentence could be restated as believe in Christ as Savior or spend eternity separated from Him.  Isn't that your choice?   To not spend eternity with Him?  Would you rather not have the choice?


Why does that seem sad to you Huh

How many Great human beings do you know?  And if you do believe you know some, what makes them Great in your opinion?  If they are secretly stealing, beating their spouse or into child porn, would you still consider them Great?  Do you know what other people are doing/thinking/etc 24/7?

tu, can you give your view of what you would find acceptable for an omnipotent deity?
Mother Theresa or anyone who was similar to her in actions and deeds would be a great person.

However, forget that... Why would you use an extreme of beating their spouse or be into child porn? Those are very small percentages of ANY society... Christian or otherwise.

So, if you treat your fellow man well on a day to day basis, yet you don't believe that Jesus of Nazareth is the Messiah and died for your sins, you get to go to Hell.

Yes... That makes a lot of sense.

If there is a God, I don't believe he follows that philosophy at all.

I am quite certain that an omnipotent deity wouldn't get "jealous" or be "vengeful". There is absolutely no need.
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Agnostic007
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« Reply #52 on: September 10, 2011, 10:30:29 AM »

Agnostic007,  where did you get those quotes from?  I never pegged you for someone to spread slander and misinformation.

You are either mistaken or pompously lying.  I've told you many times that according to the Bible, people don't go to hell for rejecting Jesus Christ's gift of forgiveness and eternal life.  People go to hell to pay for their own many sins.  It doesn't matter how good a person is, they still have many sins.  Jesus Christ, by his own words, is the only way to forgiveness of sins and the only way to Heaven.  


Loco, thank you for pegging me that way. I'd like to think it's true. I try to call a duck a duck.

So you are saying that I am wrong. People DON'T go to hell for failing to believe or worship in Jesus or the biblical God, they go to hell to pay for their many sins..

I could argue that premise with bible qoutes but I'll address another angle, an angle of fairness.

Let's say I'm born to Buddhist parents in China. I've had little interaction with Christians though I've heard about the bible and Jesus. I'm a good person who raises a family, donates my time for local charities and am known for my honesty, integrity, character and generosity.

At 38 yrs old I get hit by a taxi driver and killed. According to MOST interpretations of the new testament I would spend eternity in hell. So for a life that lasted 38 yrs, arguably a drop in the ocean compared to eternity, I am punished for an eternity with no chance of redemption.

You can use that same scenario for babies born to Muslims, Jews, Sikhs etc etc.

How is that fair?


Ag
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tu_holmes
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« Reply #53 on: September 10, 2011, 10:35:38 AM »

Loco, thank you for pegging me that way. I'd like to think it's true. I try to call a duck a duck.

So you are saying that I am wrong. People DON'T go to hell for failing to believe or worship in Jesus or the biblical God, they go to hell to pay for their many sins..

I could argue that premise with bible qoutes but I'll address another angle, an angle of fairness.

Let's say I'm born to Buddhist parents in China. I've had little interaction with Christians though I've heard about the bible and Jesus. I'm a good person who raises a family, donates my time for local charities and am known for my honesty, integrity, character and generosity.

At 38 yrs old I get hit by a taxi driver and killed. According to MOST interpretations of the new testament I would spend eternity in hell. So for a life that lasted 38 yrs, arguably a drop in the ocean compared to eternity, I am punished for an eternity with no chance of redemption.

You can use that same scenario for babies born to Muslims, Jews, Sikhs etc etc.

How is that fair?


Ag

Don't worry... Loco believes the bible to be some infallible source of information.

Let's look at Sodom and Gomorrah... Lot and his 2 daughters were saved by God from destruction, just so his daughters can get him drunk and commit incest and have children??!?!?!

Sounds like God was owned.
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« Reply #54 on: September 10, 2011, 10:54:18 AM »

Loco, thank you for pegging me that way. I'd like to think it's true. I try to call a duck a duck.

So you are saying that I am wrong. People DON'T go to hell for failing to believe or worship in Jesus or the biblical God, they go to hell to pay for their many sins..

I could argue that premise with bible qoutes but I'll address another angle, an angle of fairness.

Let's say I'm born to Buddhist parents in China. I've had little interaction with Christians though I've heard about the bible and Jesus. I'm a good person who raises a family, donates my time for local charities and am known for my honesty, integrity, character and generosity.

At 38 yrs old I get hit by a taxi driver and killed. According to MOST interpretations of the new testament I would spend eternity in hell. So for a life that lasted 38 yrs, arguably a drop in the ocean compared to eternity, I am punished for an eternity with no chance of redemption.

You can use that same scenario for babies born to Muslims, Jews, Sikhs etc etc.

How is that fair?


Ag

Life isn't fair.
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garebear
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« Reply #55 on: September 10, 2011, 10:57:30 AM »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QH2-TGUlwu4" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QH2-TGUlwu4</a>
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Agnostic007
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« Reply #56 on: September 10, 2011, 12:14:18 PM »

Life isn't fair.

The biblical God is alleged to be "just"..
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« Reply #57 on: September 10, 2011, 12:16:52 PM »

The biblical God is alleged to be "just"..

Why would anyone accept God to be "unfair" or "unjust"?

But they do, don't they.

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garebear
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« Reply #58 on: September 10, 2011, 12:43:18 PM »

Any time a theist is defeated in logic, which happens with incredible frequency, they claim "God works in mysterious ways".

There's no point in debating a person who has no intellectual integrity and will always reach for the failsafe, but it's still fun.
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« Reply #59 on: September 10, 2011, 01:04:59 PM »

The biblical God is alleged to be "just"..

The Biblical god likely does not exist and is a piece of literary fiction, it does not matter whether he is just or not.
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Agnostic007
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« Reply #60 on: September 10, 2011, 03:06:32 PM »

The Biblical god likely does not exist and is a piece of literary fiction, it does not matter whether he is just or not.

yes, but for the sake of argument...
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« Reply #61 on: September 10, 2011, 04:05:42 PM »

yes, but for the sake of argument...

Sure, but I gave up (for the most part) arguing with theists about this stuff, you can't win and people will believe what they want to believe, look at your brother.
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« Reply #62 on: September 10, 2011, 06:12:28 PM »

Sure, but I gave up (for the most part) arguing with theists about this stuff, you can't win and people will believe what they want to believe, look at your brother.

yeah, I'm really not in the "change their minds" group. I'm more in the "Leave me alone about what I believe and don't make me endure your religious ceremonies when I'm attending govt sponsored events.
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« Reply #63 on: September 10, 2011, 06:17:11 PM »

yeah, I'm really not in the "change their minds" group. I'm more in the "Leave me alone about what I believe and don't make me endure your religious ceremonies when I'm attending govt sponsored events.

I want to be left alone and even put a nice sign on my front porch that says No Soliciting, No Religious visits.  Well, every once in a while I find my sign ripped of the chain and on the ground.  Roll Eyes

I had to do something because they were getting out of hand and I work nights and was sick of them waking me up.  They were coming like 2 times a week because my wife used to be a Jehovah's witness and she told them that.  Now it's their mission to save her.
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« Reply #64 on: September 10, 2011, 11:41:17 PM »

me and my sister were totally against this doctor, but it wasn't legally our call.  My father believed in her psycho crap.  The exorcism pretty much killed her so there wasn't much point in it after that.  I do remember she didn't want to do anything like that so they tricked her letting her think it was for something else and they wouldn't let her leave when she wanted to leave, we know that from phone calls made to my father while this was going on.  They did this to her for about half a day while we were trying to figure out where the hell she was.  Before she got sick, my father wasn't really a christian.  didn't go to church and didn't read the bible or any of that.  He was desperate for something when this happened and the good doctor was right there to exploit that.

Me and my sister were also told by the doctor that part of why my mother was dying was because we were not christian and that the only full way to save her was for us to believe.  She even gave us bible assignments Roll Eyes  It got so strange at one point, we had to hide things, recover from the garbage, that the doctor had deemed evil and needed destroyed.  She toured the house and started picking out things that were evil and had to go... WTF...  One of the things actually being a christian book about marytrs from the 1600s lol...  I guess it looked evil...  She's not alone either.  There are others like her, she learned the crap from a church here, I think born again type of stuff.  We're still occationally reminded today that if we don't become Christian, we'll never get to see loved ones we've lost again...  sick way of converting people...  I don't think this kind of stuff is rare.  I think more christians are like this and some like to admit.

Hugo, my deepest regrets to you for having to go through something like that.  I can't even imagine or pretend to know how you feel after having dealt with something so horrible.
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« Reply #65 on: September 12, 2011, 10:54:09 AM »

Mother Theresa or anyone who was similar to her in actions and deeds would be a great person.

However, forget that... Why would you use an extreme of beating their spouse or be into child porn? Those are very small percentages of ANY society... Christian or otherwise.

So, if you treat your fellow man well on a day to day basis, yet you don't believe that Jesus of Nazareth is the Messiah and died for your sins, you get to go to Hell.

Yes... That makes a lot of sense.

If there is a God, I don't believe he follows that philosophy at all.

I am quite certain that an omnipotent deity wouldn't get "jealous" or be "vengeful". There is absolutely no need.

I don't want to put words in your mouth so I may be wrong but are you saying that if there were a heaven that the mainly "Great human beings" should be allowed entry in your opinion or everyone who has ever lived or..? 

And to not go to extremes how about someone that shoplifted once or cheated on a test or told lies as per your def. are they considered "Great human beings?"  Or is it that if they were more good than bad or ? 

I'm trying to get a take on what you would consider acceptable for what type of "God" you would accept.
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« Reply #66 on: September 12, 2011, 11:09:05 AM »

I'm more in the "Leave me alone about what I believe

I find it interesting that you chose the username you did and that you post a lot on the Relig. Board but in any case I'm glad you do! Smiley

I want to be left alone and even put a nice sign on my front porch that says No Soliciting, No Religious visits.  Well, every once in a while I find my sign ripped of the chain and on the ground.  Roll Eyes

I had to do something because they were getting out of hand and I work nights and was sick of them waking me up.  They were coming like 2 times a week because my wife used to be a Jehovah's witness and she told them that.  Now it's their mission to save her.

Our Jehovah's witnesses come too early on Saturdays or I would like to talk to them.

Does your wife ever talk to them?  There were some in my brothers neighborhood one time and I tried to get the younger one to email me but I think the older one must have put the kibash on it.
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« Reply #67 on: September 12, 2011, 11:19:31 AM »

I find it interesting that you chose the username you did and that you post a lot on the Relig. Board but in any case I'm glad you do! Smiley

Our Jehovah's witnesses come too early on Saturdays or I would like to talk to them.

Does your wife ever talk to them?  There were some in my brothers neighborhood one time and I tried to get the younger one to email me but I think the older one must have put the kibash on it.


I was on Getbig for awhile before I ever ventured to the religious part of the board. I choose the name in silent protest of living in Texas where it's assumed you believe in Jesus and the biblical God and agree with all the ceremony and trappings of the belief.  
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« Reply #68 on: September 12, 2011, 11:26:33 AM »

I find it interesting that you chose the username you did and that you post a lot on the Relig. Board but in any case I'm glad you do! Smiley

Our Jehovah's witnesses come too early on Saturdays or I would like to talk to them.

Does your wife ever talk to them?  There were some in my brothers neighborhood one time and I tried to get the younger one to email me but I think the older one must have put the kibash on it.


I talked to a JW that is pretty high up the chain.  He said they have a map that identifies every home in the community.  They know who is interested and who doesn't want to be bothered.  If you accept the material they will come back.  If you say "no" they leave you alone for a period of time, then come back in case there is a new resident.  

If you are a cowering chicken like my daughter, you take the material and then hide when they repeatedly come back to the house, until your mommy finally tells them you're not interested.   Roll Eyes
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« Reply #69 on: September 12, 2011, 11:36:29 AM »

I don't want to put words in your mouth so I may be wrong but are you saying that if there were a heaven that the mainly "Great human beings" should be allowed entry in your opinion or everyone who has ever lived or..? 

And to not go to extremes how about someone that shoplifted once or cheated on a test or told lies as per your def. are they considered "Great human beings?"  Or is it that if they were more good than bad or ? 

I'm trying to get a take on what you would consider acceptable for what type of "God" you would accept.

I feel that you are going to extremes... If you're a good person and you treat your man well on a day to day basis, then I think you should be allowed "into the kingdom of heaven", but of course, that's not how it works.

To be honest, the Sihk God is probably the one I can understand the most.
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« Reply #70 on: September 13, 2011, 08:12:51 AM »


To be honest, the Sihk God is probably the one I can understand the most.

Thanks.  I found a few links.  Is there one you would suggest that you like I could look at?
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« Reply #71 on: September 13, 2011, 08:20:16 AM »

To be honest, the Sihk God is probably the one I can understand the most.

Sihk warriors are cool!   Smiley





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« Reply #72 on: September 13, 2011, 06:05:28 PM »

Does the middle pic guy w/the large turbin have a special title?
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« Reply #73 on: September 14, 2011, 10:38:01 AM »

Does the middle pic guy w/the large turbin have a special title?

"Weapons Master."  All of his many weapons are in his turban.    Grin
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« Reply #74 on: September 15, 2011, 05:43:17 AM »

ok, seriously....  Let's say there is in reality only one god and one path as butterbean undersands there to be and thus as is said, only one way to enternal life.

Now lets say we have this silly stupid dude who has gone about his merry way in life doing the best he can and treating others along the way in a fair and reasonable way all along... actually there are people like that!  He's done his best to live his life in a fashion that doesn't take advantage of others, but he has never been the religious type.  according to most christian doctrine, this man is going to hell despite what life he has led if he does not accept Jesus as his freaking savior Roll Eyes  Sounds like bollocks to me...
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