Rick Perry is right - SS is a ponzi scheme

[Deicide]

I'd be glad to make that and the insurance legislation voluntary provided but if you opt out then you never get any govt assistance later when you change your mind and wish you had made a different decision

if you opt out of insurance and then get a very curable ailment but have no insurance and no money to pay for it we have to, as a country, say TOUGH SHIT.   You made your choice and now live (or die) with it

do you think that's possible

Sure, the idea behind opting out is to take care of yourself, of course with extremely low taxes (or none, even better) this becomes a lot more plausible and with the right investments you can provide for the future. Beyond that there is the argument against government force; the government should not force people to pay into something that they do not want to or even worse, is not solvent.

[Skip8282]

I haven't heard the clip but if the comment is that there are similarities in the way it is financed then that would be the same as any other insurance program (which is what SS is) as well as almost all pensions.   With al of these programs the $'s paid out to you are not the same $'s you put in.   

This is the only similarity to a Ponzi scheme but that doesn't make it the equivalent of a Ponzi scheme

It's just splitting hairs.  At one time, I think your analogy would be apt - back when SS had a surplus which would essentially be an equivalent to insurance or pension reserves.  Now that every Tom, Dick, and Harry is dipping their hands into SS combined with the fact that it's paying out more than it's taking in makes it essentially a Ponzi scheme.

If they don't change course, I don't see how any money will possibly be there for our age group (guessing your with us 25-40 or so).

[GigantorX]

It is. It's a Pyramid scheme at this point and has been since LBJ made the SS trust a general fund. There isn't a SS Trust Fund anymore, the money isn't locked away to be used for SS payouts only. It's been borrowed from for 50 years and now, as lunatic Tom Friedman even admitted on CNBC, it is a "pay as you go". Not good.

A large segment of the population is now paying into it to support a smaller segment of the population, with demographics leveled out eventually (by 202X AD) it will go cash negative and the people receiving benefits will far outnumber those paying in and at that point the base collapses and the pyramid is done.

The collapse is being hastened by high U.E., low GDP and silly payroll tax cuts. So it will fall apart faster than the CBO predicts.

Serious SS reform starts with making it a trust fund again. Period.

[Soul Crusher]

It is. It's a Pyramid scheme at this point and has been since LBJ made the SS trust a general fund. There isn't a SS Trust Fund anymore, the money isn't locked away to be used for SS payouts only. It's been borrowed from for 50 years and now, as lunatic Tom Friedman even admitted on CNBC, it is a "pay as you go". Not good.

A large segment of the population is now paying into it to support a smaller segment of the population, with demographics leveled out eventually (by 202X AD) it will go cash negative and the people receiving benefits will far outnumber those paying in and at that point the base collapses and the pyramid is done.

Serious SS reform starts with making it a trust fund again. Period.

The Trustee admits the trust fund is a fiction.  Say what you want, but Schiff got a lot out of these two guests.   

[Skip8282]

Sure, the idea behind opting out is to take care of yourself, of course with extremely low taxes (or none, even better) this becomes a lot more plausible and with the right investments you can provide for the future. Beyond that there is the argument against government force; the government should not force people to pay into something that they do not want to or even worse, is not solvent.

It's never going to realistically happen.  Endless news stories depicting people living on the street, eating shit from a trashcan, people with children, etc.

The moment it happens, both sides will saying they'll pass a new fund to cover these people.

[Dr Loomis]

SS fails because of the billions it pays out to illegals, nothing more than that. Alot have 3-4 ss numbers that they collect benefits on monthly.

[Agnostic007]

SS fails because of the billions it pays out to illegals, nothing more than that. Alot have 3-4 ss numbers that they collect benefits on monthly.

I read that illegals who have fake SSN's are paying IN to SS that they will never see..

[Soul Crusher]

I read that illegals who have fake SSN's are paying IN to SS that they will never see..

wonder about Uncle Omar!

[Dr Loomis]

I read that illegals who have fake SSN's are paying IN to SS that they will never see..

Huh? 

They see the checks each month they are collecting NOW. How do you pay in when you work for cash?

[Agnostic007]

Huh? 

They see the checks each month they are collecting NOW. How do you pay in when you work for cash?

Many illegals get fake or "borrowed" SSN to meet the employers criteria. Not all illegals get paid in cash. So they pay money in, never expecting to get any out..

I doubt very much it off sets the drain, but it does happen

[Deicide]

It's never going to realistically happen.  Endless news stories depicting people living on the street, eating shit from a trashcan, people with children, etc.

The moment it happens, both sides will saying they'll pass a new fund to cover these people.

I don't think so; it will be possible but a lot change is requried.

[Soul Crusher]

The other thing collapsing the scam is SSDI.   

Turned in to another welfare scam for the bums.

[kcballer]

LMFAO!   


This is the trustee of the fucking program itself!   What do you think he is going to say!  Admit its a ponzi scam, which he basically did.   He also admitted the trust fund is a complete fiction.     

bascially did or outright did?

Once again the proof you provide is not sufficient for the claim you make. 

[Soul Crusher]

bascially did or outright did?

Once again the proof you provide is not sufficient for the claim you make. 

He agreed with everything Peter said other than the original intent. 

[Soul Crusher]

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Krugman 1997: Social Security "A PONZI game"
ZeroHedge ^ | Sept. 13, 2011 | Tyler Durden
Posted on September 14, 2011 12:11:10 AM EDT by Squeeky

It is one thing (what thing that is we are not sure, but we have heard others say it, so like all good lemmings we will say it too) for Rick Perry to call Social Security a ponzi scheme. After all he is some crazy, foaming in the mouth conservative, as uber-Keynesian liberal Paul Krugman may call him. And that's fine. What confuses us, however, is why Social Security would be called a ponzi by the same liberal noted previously: none other than Paul Krugman himself.

Exhibit A, from a distant 1997, which perhaps one would have expected to remain buried (source):

Social Security is structured from the point of view of the recipients as if it were an ordinary retirement plan: what you get out depends on what you put in. So it does not look like a redistributionist scheme. In practice it has turned out to be strongly redistributionist, but only because of its Ponzi game aspect, in which each generation takes more out than it put in. Well, the Ponzi game will soon be over, thanks to changing demographics, so that the typical recipient henceforth will get only about as much as he or she put in (and today's young may well get less than they put in).

(Excerpt) Read more at zerohedge.com ...





Come on straw - defend this. 

[kcballer]

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Krugman 1997: Social Security "A PONZI game"
ZeroHedge ^ | Sept. 13, 2011 | Tyler Durden
Posted on September 14, 2011 12:11:10 AM EDT by Squeeky

It is one thing (what thing that is we are not sure, but we have heard others say it, so like all good lemmings we will say it too) for Rick Perry to call Social Security a ponzi scheme. After all he is some crazy, foaming in the mouth conservative, as uber-Keynesian liberal Paul Krugman may call him. And that's fine. What confuses us, however, is why Social Security would be called a ponzi by the same liberal noted previously: none other than Paul Krugman himself.

Exhibit A, from a distant 1997, which perhaps one would have expected to remain buried (source):

Social Security is structured from the point of view of the recipients as if it were an ordinary retirement plan: what you get out depends on what you put in. So it does not look like a redistributionist scheme. In practice it has turned out to be strongly redistributionist, but only because of its Ponzi game aspect, in which each generation takes more out than it put in. Well, the Ponzi game will soon be over, thanks to changing demographics, so that the typical recipient henceforth will get only about as much as he or she put in (and today's young may well get less than they put in).

(Excerpt) Read more at zerohedge.com ...





Come on straw - defend this. 

Ponzi game aspect

[Soul Crusher]

  

Yeah - because a real ponzi scheme is voluntary - this is mandatory - which is worse! 

[Agnostic007]

Funny how in Florida, with a large blue hair population, Perry and Romney were arguing over who LIKES SSN more..... Would respect Perry more if he stuck to his guns...

[tu_holmes]

Funny how in Florida, with a large blue hair population, Perry and Romney were arguing over who LIKES SSN more..... Would respect Perry more if he stuck to his guns...

Exactly... Everyone hates all social programs until they realize that social programs are putting votes into their pockets.

All full of shit.

[240 is Back]

Funny how in Florida, with a large blue hair population, Perry and Romney were arguing over who LIKES SSN more..... Would respect Perry more if he stuck to his guns...

perry was a dem when it was politically useful for him to make a name with Gore and get his foothold in TX legislature.

When TX went repub with Dubya, so did Perry.  Semed like the thing to do!

Now that the party is flavored tea party - suddenly mr. spendhappy, forced vaccinations, and pro-amnesty is 100% TEA PARTy, baby!




Smart people see thru it.  It's really only the most ignorant morons out there saying "ya know, Perry has always really represented the tea party ideals of freedom and low spending".   Facts are facts - perry has 20+ year of liberal policies.