Is it GOD or just luck?

[DroppingPlates]

finish what ?

either there is no answer or-> .... <- THIS MR. SMARTASS   

[tbombz]

thats not for me to finish its to guide you towards wisdom..

[DroppingPlates]

thats not for me to finish its to guide you towards wisdom..

 

Translation: "I'm just a dumb fucker without a mind of my own, but the bible storybook says blady blady blah..., so go figure"

[tbombz]

Translation: "I'm just a dumb fucker without a mind of my own, but the bible storybook says blady blady blah..., so go figure"

i dont believe in the bible !


this is basic science

and indisputable

there is either no answer

or god created it


(definition of god can be debated however)

[DroppingPlates]

i dont believe in the bible !


this is basic science

and indisputable

there is either no answer

or god created it


(definition of god can be debated however)

Thank Mr/Mrs Whatever, that you don't believe in fairy tales  

The funny thing with you and so many other religious people (or place yourself in another category, that's fine with me), is that they are pretty confident about their believes, but refuse to respond directly to questions like those from Freespirit or me. Stop being vague with unfinished statement or referring to to "basic science", but simply say something like "I DON'T KNOW". That would be a honest answer.

BTW, "basic science" explains us much more about evolution theory than "Mr/Mrs Creator of the universe"  

[tbombz]

Thank Mr/Mrs Whatever, that you don't believe in fairy tales 

The funny thing with you and so many other religious people (or place yourself in another category, that's fine with me), is that they are pretty confident about their believes, but refuse to respond directly to questions like those from Freespirit or me. Stop being vague with unfinished statement or referring to to "basic science", but simply something like "I DON'T KNOW". That would be a honest answer.

BTW, "basic science" explains us much more about evolution theory than "Mr/Mrs Creator of the universe" 

basic science= if something exists it has mass, if something has mass that mass can be divided ad infinitum. what holds it together? what causes it to take shape? either there is no answer, it just does so randomly and without reason, or it is CAUSED.   

[DroppingPlates]

basic science= if something exists it has mass, if something has mass that mass can be divided ad infinitum. what holds it together? what causes it to take shape? either there is no answer, it just does so randomly and without reason, or it is CAUSED.   

OK, anything happens (and: has happened) for a reason, I can agree on this "basic science", or call it "physics".
The crux of the discussion is, what/who caused this?, right?

[lovemonkey]

basic science= if something exists it has mass, if something has mass that mass can be divided ad infinitum. what holds it together? what causes it to take shape? either there is no answer, it just does so randomly and without reason, or it is CAUSED.   

Your entire argument fails due to the fact that there are particles without masses. I'll give you a hint: there's one certain kind that passes through your body by the millions every day.

There probably is no reason for anything to exist at all, at least in the human sense of the word. It's not that we might not ever comprehend what the universe really is, it's just seems that currently we don't possess the philosophy or the science to have a complete 'answer', whatever that means.

Until we do, we simply don't know and again neither do you. Asking pseudo-scientific questions of existence doesn't prove anything. The only reason you believe in your god is simply because you choose to... you have no evidence whatsoever for your position.

YOU DO NOT KNOW. BE HUMBLE AND ADMIT IT.

[tbombz]

OK, anything happens (and: has happened) for a reason, I can agree on this "basic science", or call it "physics".
The crux of the discussion is, what/who caused this?, right?

well if you agree that everything happens for a reason, which isnt something i asserted but something i could agree with, then your basically throwing yourself into a trap where you have to admit there is a god due to laws of causality.

yes, what caused everything to happen. either there is no cause, or it was god.

Your entire argument fails due to the fact that there are particles without masses. I'll give you a hint: there's one certain kind that passes through your body by the millions every day.

There probably is no reason for anything to exist at all, at least in the human sense of the word. It's not that we might not ever comprehend what the universe really is, it's just seems that currently we don't possess the philosophy or the science to have a complete 'answer', whatever that means.

Until we do, we simply don't know and again neither do you. Asking pseudo-scientific questions of existence doesn't prove anything. The only reason you believe in your god is simply because you choose to... you have no evidence whatsoever for your position.

YOU DO NOT KNOW. BE HUMBLE AND ADMIT IT.

there is no particle without mass , dont be stupid

[DroppingPlates]

well if you agree that everything happens for a reason, which isnt something i asserted but something i could agree with, then your basically throwing yourself into a trap where you have to admit there is a god due to laws of causality.

yes, what caused everything to happen. either there is no cause, or it was god.

So you translate "cause" by "god"?, how naive...

there is no particle without mass , dont be stupid

Gluons

[lovemonkey]

well if you agree that everything happens for a reason, which isnt something i asserted but something i could agree with, then your basically throwing yourself into a trap where you have to admit there is a god due to laws of causality.
yes, what caused everything to happen. either there is no cause, or it was god.

That is perfectly reasonable, BUT, I think you have to completely redefine what you mean by 'god'. It is extremely unlikely to be any sort of cognitive entity or anything that might 'love us' lmfao. Your god that you devote your faith is nothing but a construct of your mind. Your real 'god' might very well be nothing but a quantum fluctuation... No purpose, no intent, no reason... just is. But again, who knows? I sure don't and neither do you.

there is no particle without mass , dont be stupid

Do you have ANY basic understanding of particle physics whatsoever?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massless_particle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon
http://van.physics.illinois.edu/qa/listing.php?id=1354

How can you speak with such conviction when you're so poorly educated?

[Naggash]

God, at least in the biblical sense, does not exist

Hope this helps

[tbombz]

So you translate "cause" by "god"?, how naive...

either there is no cause or it was caused by god. fact. cant debate it.

That is perfectly reasonable, BUT, I think you have to completely redefine what you mean by 'god'. It is extremely unlikely to be any sort of cognitive entity or anything that might 'love us' lmfao. Your god that you devote your faith is nothing but a construct of your mind. Your real 'god' might very well be nothing but a quantum fluctuation... No purpose, no intent, no reason... just is. But again, who knows? I sure don't and neither do you.

Do you have ANY basic understanding of particle physics whatsoever?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massless_particle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon
http://van.physics.illinois.edu/qa/listing.php?id=1354

How can you speak with such conviction when you're so poorly educated?

It is not that a photon has no mass. A photon has no “rest-mass” but it does have a unified entity called “mass-energy”, which has the same properties as rest mass does, as far as gravitation is concerned.

Consider a pair of electron and positron. They have rest mass, which other masses surrounding them can feel and react to. If this pair of electron and positron were to collide each other and turn themselves into photons, their previous rest mass did not just simply vanish but became mass-energy of the photons. The surrounding masses would still feel the gravitational effect of “mass-energy” of the photons as if it still were rest mass of a pair of electron and positron.

What is meant by the sentence “A photon has no rest-mass” is that there is no frame in which a photon appears at rest. So, it’s impossible to talk about rest-mass of a photon. A photon can only travel at a speed of light and what is measurable is only its mass-energy quantity.



i copied that from a different forum because i am not able to put it into words as well as this guy did.

it amazes me that someone could think a massless particle exists. if there is no mass(no "mass-energy"), there is no particle, basic physics.

God, at least in the biblical sense, does not exist

Hope this helps

hell fire and an egotistical, imperfect god? right, doesnt exist. a personal god that follows every humans thoughts and helps guide them towards spiritual growth ? very possible

[lovemonkey]

either there is no cause or it was caused by god. fact. cant debate it.

There you go. At least you're honest about being closed-minded.

It is not that a photon has no mass. A photon has no “rest-mass” but it does have a unified entity called “mass-energy”, which has the same properties as rest mass does, as far as gravitation is concerned.

Consider a pair of electron and positron. They have rest mass, which other masses surrounding them can feel and react to. If this pair of electron and positron were to collide each other and turn themselves into photons, their previous rest mass did not just simply vanish but became mass-energy of the photons. The surrounding masses would still feel the gravitational effect of “mass-energy” of the photons as if it still were rest mass of a pair of electron and positron.

What is meant by the sentence “A photon has no rest-mass” is that there is no frame in which a photon appears at rest. So, it’s impossible to talk about rest-mass of a photon. A photon can only travel at a speed of light and what is measurable is only its mass-energy quantity.



i copied that from a different forum because i am not able to put it into words as well as this guy did.

it amazes me that someone could think a massless particle exists. if there is no mass(no "mass-energy"), there is no particle, basic physics.

Copy and paste, eh? Were you aware of this concept before googling it? I'm 99,9 % sure you did not know what rest mass was until just now. Basically anything with mass that can be weighed does not travel at the speed of light since it takes an infinite amount energy to reach that speed. So hence, massless particles. At least in the traditional sense that you referred to at first.
Physicists are still not even sure what gives particles mass.. they're suspecting it might be the Higg's Boson but it is yet to be found. So in that sense where mass comes from is still unexplained.

If you don't mind, I'd like to give you a quick test of your physics knowledge(very, very basic physics):

Imagine a wagon traveling down a slope that is 20m long and it's a got a 25 degree angle to it(from bottom up). It starts at the top at a standstill. The wagon has a resulting friction force of say 25 N. The wagons mass is 200 kg. What speed in meters/second does the wagon have at the bottom of the slope?



If you know any basic physics this will take you about 2 minutes(if even that) to figure out. If you don't have a calculator there's always online ones. You like to speak of basic physics as if you know it... then prove it. I honestly think you're clueless. Prove me wrong and I'll be impressed for whatever it's worth.

You're still dodging 75% of all arguments coming towards you. You do that a lot... why?

What about this?

That is perfectly reasonable, BUT, I think you have to completely redefine what you mean by 'god'. It is extremely unlikely to be any sort of cognitive entity or anything that might 'love us' lmfao. Your god that you devote your faith is nothing but a construct of your mind. Your real 'god' might very well be nothing but a quantum fluctuation... No purpose, no intent, no reason... just is. But again, who knows? I sure don't and neither do you.

Any thoughts, ideas?

[tbombz]

you just got owned and now your upset about it, i understand.

there is no such thing as a massless particle.  the term itself is an oxymoron. if something exists by definition it has mass. yes, this is basic physics.

another thing... there is no cause. or it was caused by God. there are no other options. i challenge you, come up with another. something that explains how everything came to be, what everything is made of, and why the universe evolves as it does. 



thoughts about your assanine idea of a possible non-god god ?  either its god, or its not. either there is no cause, or there is a creator. in order for something to create, it must be a "thinking" being.


i do admit, i dont know anything for certain. but i know whats possible, and whats not possible. i know the basic stucture of the universe, i am able to think about what would be contained in a metaphysics if one was possible. there are two options. meaningless shit floating around waiting to be shit that we just happened to emerge from (even though "we" dont even actually exist at all, we are a figment of our imagination, nothing but a fleeting awareness of biochemical signals without free will or anything that makes us human)... OR a transcendant thinking being created everything to give birth to other thinking beings.


outside of that.. dont know anything.  my idea of what god is... if your interested.. is something very different from the biblical god but at the same time very similar. its not a person, though it is one entity, it is everywhere and anywhere, it is in all of us, it knows everything everyone is thinking, and everything everyone has ever thought, it knows exactly what we need to become better people and it is always present in our lives helping move each and everyone of us towards perfection. it is the cause and the sustainer of all existence, it is existence itself, it is everything. we will never get to meet god, though we are always in his presence. we can learn about him, we can become more like him, we can rest in his warmth. we will never have a conversation with him, but he is always talking to us.


i could go on..   

[lovemonkey]

you just got owned and now your upset about it, i understand.

there is no such thing as a massless particle.  the term itself is an oxymoron. if something exists by definition it has mass. yes, this is basic physics.

Certain particles have mass-energy, remember? But no mass in the traditional sense. Big difference. At first you made no distinction between the two. There are massless particles. When you first said that particles without mass could never exist, you obviously didn't know what the hell you were talking about. You went to google for help when you got called out on it. You referred to mass in the traditional sense and that's where the discussion took off.

another thing... there is no cause. or it was caused by God. there are no other options. i challenge you, come up with another. something that explains how everything came to be, what everything is made of, and why the universe evolves as it does. 



thoughts about your assanine idea of a possible non-god god ?  either its god, or its not. either there is no cause, or there is a creator. in order for something to create, it must be a "thinking" being.

The concept of a creator or a creation is not far fetched, but if you're going down that path of reasoning you have to totally reconsider what you mean by god. Just because the universe inflated 13.7 billion years ago doesn't mean there was cognitive being that caused it. In fact, it's EXTREMELY unlikely. Again, you have absolutely no proof whatsoever for your position. Your idea of a god is completely unfounded and only exists in your mind. Admit this. Even if your logic made sense.. what created your 'god'? Oh wait, your 'god' is eternal, how convenient 

Follow your own logic where it takes you and you'll see why it doesn't provide an answer. It's totally fine to say that you don't know.. that is the only thing you CAN know.

Particles are created out of nothing all the time. The universe is teeming with an almost infinite amount of quantum particles jumping in and out of existence. So there goes your "creator" argument.

i do admit, i dont know anything for certain.

Good. That goes for anything, including your 'god'.

i know whats possible, and whats not possible.

No one knows what's possible and neither do you. How convenient that your god happens to fit in your 'possible' category.

[lovemonkey]

Btw, how's that physics problem coming along? What's holding you back? It's only 'basic physics' as you like to say all the time.... 

[freespirit]

Btw, how's that physics problem coming along? What's holding you back? It's only 'basic physics' as you like to say all the time.... 

Maybe teebombs need some more time for this.... 

[tbombz]

massless particle = oxymoron

no such thing as particle without mass


either universe is uncaused or caused

no other options



if you have anything else youd like to discuss let me know

[DroppingPlates]

massless particle = oxymoron

no such thing as particle without mass


either universe is uncaused or caused

no other options



if you have anything else youd like to discuss let me know

You speak in terms of "truth" and "facts". With a narrow mind like that you're not really open for any discussion.
I'm not an expert in physics, but reading lovemonkey, he knows his shit and you think you know shit, but in fact you don't, esp when you copy-paste stuff.

[andreisdaman]

I think whats going on here is that people don't realize that luck is random.....it happens constantly throughout a day, week, month, year, decade, etc....people think that luck is assigned to people...its not..its totally random.......but what happens Is that some people get some good luck, some bad luck...some get a little of one and more of the other.....then you have some guys who get all bad luck and this is then balanced off by guys who get all good luck...

your friend is getting all the good luck right now but there is some poor slob somewhere who is getting all the bad luck.....fate balances out

[tbombz]

You speak in terms of "truth" and "facts". With a narrow mind like that you're not really open for any discussion.
I'm not an expert in physics, but reading lovemonkey, he knows his shit and you think you know shit, but in fact you don't, esp when you copy-paste stuff.

either universe is uncaused or caused

no other options

[DroppingPlates]

either universe is uncaused or caused

no other options

Thanks for the confirmation, sir

[lovemonkey]

either universe is uncaused or caused

no other options

Big fonts!! Bold letters!!! My goodness!!

Two things:

Even though no one knows for sure, the beginning of the universe might be explained by quantum mechanics. Our definition of 'cause' doesn't really apply in that case since quantum mechanics rely on probabilities... The world of particle physics is NOTHING like the physical world we are familiar with. But it'll be a long time before we find out if QM can explain the origin of the universe, since the energies required to do such research is way beyond anything we got today.


Secondly, I was totally playing along with your cause and effect argument since it's not totally unreasonable. But my point was that you know absolutely nothing about whatever might have started the universe and to assume it's a cognitive being is simply making shit up.



Either way, you lose this debate due to your ignorance. I don't know why I keep doing this. You're such a dumbass I don't even know where to begin. Why are you even wasting your time on a debate when you can't be bothered to think and address arguments properly?

[tbombz]

no, either there is no cause... and everything just happened.

or there was/is a cause.. which means everything happened for a reason.. which means it was created.. which requires a thinking being.


two options, only two= "just happened", or "creator".


indisputable.