Author Topic: The Afterlife  (Read 27853 times)

Kwon_2

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Re: The Afterlife
« Reply #125 on: September 30, 2011, 04:22:01 PM »


The Afterlife

Squadfather did what he had to do with the wingspan of limited effort.

The cesarian way and style of meddling and improving things surely seemed like the true and may be ONLY resort for such an advantage.

The first "rider" (or should we say proponent?) engaged, and then the second, in this vile concoction of wills.

Apocalyptic or not, the true manifest was made, and it was clear, black baggery was a real effort as a means of settling it in a non-provokative manner without a dispute nor a premonition of strife and struggle.

Thing is, does anyone really consider SquadFather an apocolyptic fighter or is his roman warrior mistique just raising his stock in the eyes of superior opponents and upper level management.

i'm not referring to whether you the Getbig-poster buys into it offcourse, it's more in terms of his opponents and by upper level management i don't refer to Dave Czech, Juruth or even any high level promoters, the sponsorships are what drive these competitors to sweat in those black bags they always wear in the sauna, no chance can Salvatore make someone do that, we as human beings are driven by the desire for wealth, social acceptance, and once we hit our mid 30s our legacy.

To me personally the latter would be meaningless as i do not buy into the afterlife aspect so who cares what people think after i'm gone but someone religious like Jean Francois Papillon would for sure think otherwise which is why he trains so hard and i can't imaging anyone arguing the success of his labor, although i don't think Wiggs is anywhere near in the same boat.

but lets stay on topic, what makes SquadFather the threat that he is even though his skill set may be lightyears behind him

just to give you guys a quick example of what he has accomplished via his mystique when compared to what he has done in the octagon at least on the average of his occasions. makes it almost sad to see what the ufc hype machine is able to do to some but not to others who are perhaps more deserving due to their determination and work ethic and most importantly SKILL SET

They both knew where everything was heading as soon as they stepped inside the cage, it was a hellbound ride to the sauna...

The "mistique" is here to stay, be it now or never...

It's the Afterlife alright.

And yes, we should always (vis-a-vis) stay in the same boat among those other sordid predicaments where it may or may not flutter.

The one that tries, will, of course gain what is needed in this time and age.

The religion is one thing though, make no mistake about that.

It gets thought of many many times, always trying to improve.


LittleJ

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Re: The Afterlife
« Reply #126 on: September 30, 2011, 04:27:43 PM »
What about ghost? I've seen the ghost of a relative of mine.

cephissus

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Re: The Afterlife
« Reply #127 on: September 30, 2011, 04:39:38 PM »
If no one has free will. That one is not free to make choices in life. That everything one does is merely a preconditioned programmed response

This is a common misconception.  "If I'm not free, I must be a slave (just a program)."  Look at your use of the word "response".  What are you responding against?  Is it not, whatever it is, also responding to you?  If I knock a pitch out of the park with my bat, most will say the ball "responded" to my bat by flying away.  But my bat also responded to the ball!  The ball knocked my bat off its course -- of course in much less dramatic fashion (which is why it's rarely talked about).

Now, humans, of course, aren't bats and balls but fundamentally there is no difference.  This is where people screw up.  Did the ball have a "choice" whether it flew out of the park or not?  No, it had to.  It did its best to knock the bat out of its way, but the bat was stronger.  Similarly, every time you "make a choice" you enter into an exchange with... everything around you.  Every decision, every action, everything you do or see around you is the result of a confluence of forces -- in your example, the glock, the bullets, my daughters brain, the gunman, his car etc. are all factors which are plugged into the equation of existence, and out pops the necessary result: my daughter's brain is splattered all over the sidewalk.  Which brings me to...


Quote from: pellius
Then no one can be held responsible for their actions. Do you hold responsible the Glock 22 that just pumped six 230 grain Hydro-Shoks into your daughter's brain? Maybe you do? Some do in fact?

Saying nothing is absolutely free from outside influence is quite different from saying no one has free will. Being influenced by outside forces or not still implies conscious choices. 

I can hold whoever I want "responsible" for whichever "action" I want.  I would go amiss if I said that the shooter here was SOLELY responsible for blowing my daughter's brains out.  He pulled the trigger, but what was behind that pull?  Well, of course a "decision" made by him.  But what was behind that decision?  If I said "nothing but his own free will" I would be dead wrong.  Behind his decision was a lifetime of interactions, and ultimately, the whole history of existence.  Countless forces battling it out over countless billions of years led up to that point, and led to that necessary result.  I could blame him, and him alone, but that would be to the discredit of an infinity of other factors which led to this situation.

Of course I'll be furious at this outcome, but what can I do?  Dismantle all of existence?  Of course not.  So I blame him.  But I am smart enough to realize that this blame is simply... my preference.  I have anger and I want to act on it... so I choose to take it out on the gunman, knowing full well things couldn't have been any different...

But this is a bit beside the point.  If you believe in wills (and how can you not) you must understand that they are not free.  Wills battle against wills, and the strongest prevails.  It might be my will that I bench press 500 lbs tomorrow, but the weight will crush me, and so my will yields.  It might be that the gunman wants to shoot my daughter, but I see him first and shoot him, so my will prevails, and his yields.

These examples, you will argue, deal with "outside influences" though and not "decision making".  Well, in the end, it just takes a more subtle eye to see how there is no difference between the two.  Why did I make the decision to attack the gunman?  Is it not because he was threatening my daughter?  Therefore I am responding to him.  I might have walked past him on the street every day prior and, without knowing he was a threat, done nothing.  And this goes back to the ball and bat example.  We always try to separate things... but there is no separating them!  We say "i chose" not "i reacted" but what is the difference between a choice and a reaction?  Every action has a reaction.  We call it a "choice" if the action originates with our will, and a "reaction" if it doesn't -- but there is no fundamental difference between the two.  Every meeting (every clashing) of two wills yields a result.  Who "chooses," who "reacts" etc. is all interpretation.

To say we have free will is to say our will is not a part of this world, is not something which struggles against (and therefore can be influenced by) the rest of the world.  People believe their thoughts pop out of nothing into their head, that their decisions are their work alone, but this is never the case.  Nothing that exists does so alone.

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Re: The Afterlife
« Reply #128 on: September 30, 2011, 05:41:44 PM »
This is a common misconception.  "If I'm not free, I must be a slave (just a program)."  Look at your use of the word "response".  What are you responding against?  Is it not, whatever it is, also responding to you?  If I knock a pitch out of the park with my bat, most will say the ball "responded" to my bat by flying away.  But my bat also responded to the ball!  The ball knocked my bat off its course -- of course in much less dramatic fashion (which is why it's rarely talked about).

Now, humans, of course, aren't bats and balls but fundamentally there is no difference.  This is where people screw up.  Did the ball have a "choice" whether it flew out of the park or not?  No, it had to.  It did its best to knock the bat out of its way, but the bat was stronger.  Similarly, every time you "make a choice" you enter into an exchange with... everything around you.  Every decision, every action, everything you do or see around you is the result of a confluence of forces -- in your example, the glock, the bullets, my daughters brain, the gunman, his car etc. are all factors which are plugged into the equation of existence, and out pops the necessary result: my daughter's brain is splattered all over the sidewalk.  Which brings me to...


I can hold whoever I want "responsible" for whichever "action" I want.  I would go amiss if I said that the shooter here was SOLELY responsible for blowing my daughter's brains out.  He pulled the trigger, but what was behind that pull?  Well, of course a "decision" made by him.  But what was behind that decision?  If I said "nothing but his own free will" I would be dead wrong.  Behind his decision was a lifetime of interactions, and ultimately, the whole history of existence.  Countless forces battling it out over countless billions of years led up to that point, and led to that necessary result.  I could blame him, and him alone, but that would be to the discredit of an infinity of other factors which led to this situation.

Of course I'll be furious at this outcome, but what can I do?  Dismantle all of existence?  Of course not.  So I blame him.  But I am smart enough to realize that this blame is simply... my preference.  I have anger and I want to act on it... so I choose to take it out on the gunman, knowing full well things couldn't have been any different...

But this is a bit beside the point.  If you believe in wills (and how can you not) you must understand that they are not free.  Wills battle against wills, and the strongest prevails.  It might be my will that I bench press 500 lbs tomorrow, but the weight will crush me, and so my will yields.  It might be that the gunman wants to shoot my daughter, but I see him first and shoot him, so my will prevails, and his yields.

These examples, you will argue, deal with "outside influences" though and not "decision making".  Well, in the end, it just takes a more subtle eye to see how there is no difference between the two.  Why did I make the decision to attack the gunman?  Is it not because he was threatening my daughter?  Therefore I am responding to him.  I might have walked past him on the street every day prior and, without knowing he was a threat, done nothing.  And this goes back to the ball and bat example.  We always try to separate things... but there is no separating them!  We say "i chose" not "i reacted" but what is the difference between a choice and a reaction?  Every action has a reaction.  We call it a "choice" if the action originates with our will, and a "reaction" if it doesn't -- but there is no fundamental difference between the two.  Every meeting (every clashing) of two wills yields a result.  Who "chooses," who "reacts" etc. is all interpretation.

To say we have free will is to say our will is not a part of this world, is not something which struggles against (and therefore can be influenced by) the rest of the world.  People believe their thoughts pop out of nothing into their head, that their decisions are their work alone, but this is never the case.  Nothing that exists does so alone.

You’ve been thoroughly indoctrinated in complete bullshit, congrats. 

pellius

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Re: The Afterlife
« Reply #129 on: September 30, 2011, 05:48:48 PM »
Did you choose to respond to my post and type those words?

Eliminating only my initial response and your answer, if we could recreate the EXACT same conditions as when I first posed my response would you have answered in the exact same way using the exact same words?

Something, a ball, reacting to an outside force, is subject to the laws of physics. It's an entirely different context deciding if one should swing or not swing a bat at a passing ball.

pellius

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Re: The Afterlife
« Reply #130 on: September 30, 2011, 05:50:44 PM »
You’ve been thoroughly indoctrinated in complete bullshit, congrats. 

It's not his fault.

He's a good guy, though. But he can't take credit for any of his goodness.

cephissus

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Re: The Afterlife
« Reply #131 on: September 30, 2011, 05:59:45 PM »
Did you choose to respond to my post and type those words?

Eliminating only my initial response and your answer, if we could recreate the EXACT same conditions as when I first posed my response would you have answered in the exact same way using the exact same words?

Something, a ball, reacting to an outside force, is subject to the laws of physics. It's an entirely different context deciding if one should swing or not swing a bat at a passing ball.

1.  Yes.
2.  Yes.
3.  It's not different.  You say you have a choice, but is that choice "free"?  Did it come from "you"?  And nowhere else?  Did it create itself, perhaps?  Are you saying the choice originated in you and you alone, and that it wasn't dependent on a single other thing in the universe?

You probably believe a thing like a rock doesn't have a will.  That it doesn't "choose" its path as it rolls down a hill?  Well what difference is there between a rock rolling down a hill and a human walking along a street?  The human is just a jumble of nerves and cells and atoms bumbling along and ramming into things, just like the rock is just a bunch of molecules and sediment clunking along, isn't it?  Just a bit more sophisticated in design?

cephissus

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Re: The Afterlife
« Reply #132 on: September 30, 2011, 06:15:00 PM »
Something, a ball, reacting to an outside force, is subject to the laws of physics. It's an entirely different context deciding if one should swing or not swing a bat at a passing ball.

Maybe I can be clearer.  You say that the ball is subject to the laws of physics, but then suggest that decisions are something beyond physics?  But what if you make a decision, and then something happens... something in the physical world?  What if you decide to swing, and then you actually swing?  It seems the physical world (your arms, the bat, etc) was touched by your will here, doesn't it?

This implies the physical world isn't free from your will.  But if that is the case, then how can your will be free from the physical world?  How can something affect something if it is free from it?  How can there be a one-way effect (will -> physical world)?  Have you ever seen anything else like that?

On the other hand, how many times has the physical world seemingly bent your will?  How many times has alcohol loosened you up, made you do something dumb?  How many times have you become enraged by someone's behavior and done something irrational?  How many times have you suddenly become panic stricken during one of your fights?  And these are just crude examples...

The physical world and the world of will are one and the same!

pellius

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Re: The Afterlife
« Reply #133 on: September 30, 2011, 06:20:59 PM »
1.  Yes.
2.  Yes.
3.  It's not different.  You say you have a choice, but is that choice "free"?  Did it come from "you"?  And nowhere else?  Did it create itself, perhaps?  Are you saying the choice originated in you and you alone, and that it wasn't dependent on a single other thing in the universe?

You probably believe a thing like a rock doesn't have a will.  That it doesn't "choose" its path as it rolls down a hill?  Well what difference is there between a rock rolling down a hill and a human walking along a street?  The human is just a jumble of nerves and cells and atoms bumbling along and ramming into things, just like the rock is just a bunch of molecules and sediment clunking along, isn't it?  Just a bit more sophisticated in design?

 

No.

If I see a car coming down the street I stop. Sure I am reacting to an outside stimuli but, unlike a rolling rock, I have a choice.

Awesome Spinoza reference. Introductory Philosophy can come in handy when you least expect it.

cephissus

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Re: The Afterlife
« Reply #134 on: September 30, 2011, 06:25:24 PM »
haha, never read spinoza unfortunately.

yes you have a choice, but choice is an illusion.  a convenient term for describing appearances.  you couldn't really have kept walking.  the past couldn't really have been any other way than it is.

pellius

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Re: The Afterlife
« Reply #135 on: September 30, 2011, 06:32:54 PM »
haha, never read spinoza unfortunately.

yes you have a choice, but choice is an illusion.  a convenient term for describing appearances.  you couldn't really have kept walking.  the past couldn't really have been any other way than it is.

Same can't be said for a rock. Not same = different


BTW, people do jump in front of oncoming cars. But of course, they couldn't really have stopped walking.

cephissus

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Re: The Afterlife
« Reply #136 on: September 30, 2011, 06:37:37 PM »
Same can't be said for a rock. Not same = different


BTW, people do jump in front of oncoming cars. But of course, they couldn't really have stopped walking.

Yep! :D

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Re: The Afterlife
« Reply #137 on: September 30, 2011, 06:46:40 PM »
You probably believe a thing like a rock doesn't have a will.  That it doesn't "choose" its path as it rolls down a hill?  Well what difference is there between a rock rolling down a hill and a human walking along a street?  The human is just a jumble of nerves and cells and atoms bumbling along and ramming into things, just like the rock is just a bunch of molecules and sediment clunking along, isn't it?  Just a bit more sophisticated in design?

Scary.

I fear this kid believes in the drivel that he’s spewing.

Kwon_2

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Re: The Afterlife
« Reply #138 on: September 30, 2011, 06:51:58 PM »
Scary.

I fear this kid believes in the drivel that he’s spewing.

Well, he should. It's the truth.

The Ugly

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Re: The Afterlife
« Reply #139 on: September 30, 2011, 06:58:43 PM »
Forget all your bullshit philosophy, free will and whatnot, what does your GUT tell you? Consciousness after death, yes or no?

cephissus

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Re: The Afterlife
« Reply #140 on: September 30, 2011, 07:06:22 PM »
Forget all your bullshit philosophy, free will and whatnot, what does your GUT tell you? Consciousness after death, yes or no?

Why should we listen to our gut?

If you knew anything about philosophy, you would know that "gut instincts" and sophisticated or "philosophical" thinking aren't fundamentally different things.  In other words, "thoughts" and "feelings" are the same thing -- they just exist on different ends of the spectrum.

Anyway my gut says "hell no."  Although it used to say "yes of course!" when I was younger.  This changed because I started thinking differently.  Think differently for long enough, and you begin to feel differently too.  Thoughts become instincts.

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Re: The Afterlife
« Reply #141 on: September 30, 2011, 08:46:01 PM »
Anyone believe in this horse shit?

  We all "eternally" exist in a specific location of the time-space continuum. Time is an illusion and we are all eternal. Right now you are already dead in a specific location of the time-space continuum and in other parts you "never" existed.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

tbombz

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Re: The Afterlife
« Reply #142 on: September 30, 2011, 09:34:43 PM »
Your will doesn't exist as some transcendent entity which beams thoughts down to your earthly body... the whole will / body duality is a myth.  They are both bound together and are one and the same, ultimately.

no.

for example, happy people are healthier.


heres the thing. our knowledge is limited to our experience, and the only verifiable experience is sensory; thus it must come through physical  interactions.  this leads you to assume that we are bound to act in accordance with what our experiences have taught us. but we are not. we can step back from our data set, look at our knowledge base, and decide anything we wish. its when you fail to think before you act that you allow experience to dictate behavior.  your also discounting non-sensory experience... aka the experience of being human. the most important experience at all. not verifiable, and thus not able to prove anything except to the experiencer's self. sometimes not even that much as the thought of vain delusions brings doubt.

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Re: The Afterlife
« Reply #143 on: September 30, 2011, 09:41:58 PM »
my father said it best.. i asked him about GOD.. if he believed ect.. he said "yes.. i believe in a higher power.. i dont believe that this is just by happenstance.. but, it does not mean that we go to a heaven when we die.. we exist.. then we dont.. "... so my father did not believe in the "big bang" ect.. but also did not believe we went to a paradise either.. it is sad though to think we will just cease to exist.. we are no more.. :-[

cephissus

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Re: The Afterlife
« Reply #144 on: September 30, 2011, 11:01:52 PM »
heres the thing. our knowledge is limited to our experience, and the only verifiable experience is sensory; thus it must come through physical  interactions.

What do you mean "verifiable"?  Where did I assume this?

Quote from: tbombz
  this leads you to assume that we are bound to act in accordance with what our experiences have taught us. but we are not. we can step back from our data set, look at our knowledge base, and decide anything we wish. its when you fail to think before you act that you allow experience to dictate behavior.  your also discounting non-sensory experience... aka the experience of being human. the most important experience at all. not verifiable, and thus not able to prove anything except to the experiencer's self. sometimes not even that much as the thought of vain delusions brings doubt.

where do i discount non-sensory experience?


pellius

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Re: The Afterlife
« Reply #145 on: September 30, 2011, 11:55:37 PM »
  We all "eternally" exist in a specific location of the time-space continuum. Time is an illusion and we are all eternal. Right now you are already dead in a specific location of the time-space continuum and in other parts you "never" existed.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

Can you tell where this specific location is where I can find the dead suckymuscle?

Your post sounds kind of interesting at first but then you realize it's just stupid. Stupid like you. Stupid like the dead suckymuscle.

CigaretteMan

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Re: The Afterlife
« Reply #146 on: October 01, 2011, 12:01:32 AM »
  We all "eternally" exist in a specific location of the time-space continuum. Time is an illusion and we are all eternal. Right now you are already dead in a specific location of the time-space continuum and in other parts you "never" existed.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

  This is brilliant stuff...you have been reading your quantum physics...

gh15

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Re: The Afterlife
« Reply #147 on: October 01, 2011, 12:36:21 AM »
  We all "eternally" exist in a specific location of the time-space continuum. Time is an illusion and we are all eternal. Right now you are already dead in a specific location of the time-space continuum and in other parts you "never" existed.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

maybe the lutenent greatst posting in getbig history!,,good !

gh15 approved
fallen angel

pellius

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Re: The Afterlife
« Reply #148 on: October 01, 2011, 01:34:06 AM »
my father said it best.. i asked him about GOD.. if he believed ect.. he said "yes.. i believe in a higher power.. i dont believe that this is just by happenstance.. but, it does not mean that we go to a heaven when we die.. we exist.. then we dont.. "... so my father did not believe in the "big bang" ect.. but also did not believe we went to a paradise either.. it is sad though to think we will just cease to exist.. we are no more.. :-[

This seems very odd. I can understand why someone doesn't believe in God and an after life but to actually believe in God but not an after life seems very strange to me. Why would God create something in his own image, want you to be good in a world where so much works against goodness. And then end it. If that were the case, why be good? If a Mother Teresa and an Adolph Hitler share the same cosmic fate why not not just live for yourself? Do whatever you can get away with?

"If you were to destroy in mankind the belief in immortality, not only love but every living force maintaining the life of the world would at once be dried up. Moreover, nothing then would be immoral; everything would be lawful."

"Quite so," said Father Paissy, "there is no virtue if there is no immortality."

-- Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov  Book II - An Unfortunate Gathering

pellius

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Re: The Afterlife
« Reply #149 on: October 01, 2011, 04:24:25 AM »
Yes, that's where it ultimately leads. No God = you are god, there is no true "right" and "wrong" no true North, that's why the famous satanist aleister crowley said "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law".
Atheists scare me.


"Excuse me," Dmitri cried suddenly; "if I've heard right, crime must not only be permitted but even recognized as the inevitable and the most rational outcome of his position for every infidel!"

"Hold your tongue; you won't understand anything. If there is no God, then I am God."
 
Alexei Nilych Kirilov, The Demons and The Devils, Part III, ch. VI, "A busy night"