Example of a good natural, 7-8 years of training maybe more

[RC Money]

it is like this ,, ill tell you how the natural mind work lol

2 year natural ,, on some protien pwoder the infamous weight gainer lol and creatine diahreeas....

then another 6 months on diff creatinethat doesnt cause diarea lol and then bcaa and what other balonieisthere ? lol ummmm bcaa and GLUTAMIN lol yes glutamine...

 and then at the 3 year mark! the true natural go to .... pro hormones! ,, he go to  pro hormones or designer steroids ...now this.... is steroids my friends,, but we forgivehim for that lol so he uses halodrol or superdrol or whatever designer REAL steroids out there....and gain his 10lb and this dont go away anywhere...he keep them so sudenly the so call true natural isno more 178lb but he is 188!  lol and he is hormonized but he is forgiven and remain natural since he did it only ....for ....7 weeks or 5 weeks so it doesnt count,,so that 8-10 lb dont count ...he is forgiven lol

thennnn in the 4 year mark the peptides come in ... lol and the esterless compounds lol ,, the peptides ofcourse are for research so it is natural ,, everyone sell them ,, look online lol every boarding has them free for everyone to use lol 40 dolaros and you got peptides who put water into muscle lol  so it is used by naturals ,,

and ofcourse on top of that ANTI ESTROGENS AND AROMATZE INHIBITOR...FOR RESEARCH USED ALL OVER BY TRUE NTURALS..

so sadly this is true natural for you today ,, some fellasdo it with out all this ...and only use some halodrol at one time and creatine,, those are the only one who are close to true naturals....

this is the truth my friends,, this si the truth!

gh15 approved

That didnt really debunk what I said though GH, you just instead said how most naturals progress which I guess in a way refutes my point by saying most dont stay natural long enough to ever top out naturally.

I am a bit different though, after the 3 year mark of protein and creatine I found getbig and then decided to just eat food not worry about the anabolic window and got same results that I got with the snake oil lol with less stress and money pissed away. I swear its better now because I do not worry about that shit and just kind of keep the mind set of maintaining or slow gains when I am more gym focused and less wrestling and bjj focused.

[RC Money]

I agree with this, but all that work and all those years and those hours in the gym, cooking meals, making sure you do everything right, and spending money on all those pre-workouts and creatine and all that, for just minimal (barely noticeable) gains each year that if your lucky and have the genetics may compound to look decent after several years while some guy on juice for 6 months can blow your physique out of the water??  Doesn't sound worth it to me and I've been on both sides of the spectrum... 8 years natural training, 2 years sauced.

I feel you which is why I have mostly stopped trying to get much bigger and instead prefer to maintain what I have already built through hard work with minimal effort, execpt for those few inspired workouts here and there lol.

To be honest my new motivation for lifting weights and eating heavy is to simply keep my weight and size the same while I do all of my grappling training and mma conditioning. It is a new goal, instead of delusionaly building, or hoping to build pro level mass as a natural I am content to be 200lbs at 5'8" while I workout around 4hrs a day which is pretty hard so it is a fun realistic natural goal to have.

[Trev]

it is like this ,, ill tell you how the natural mind work lol

2 year natural ,, on some protien pwoder the infamous weight gainer lol and creatine diahreeas....

then another 6 months on diff creatinethat doesnt cause diarea lol and then bcaa and what other balonieisthere ? lol ummmm bcaa and GLUTAMIN lol yes glutamine...

 and then at the 3 year mark! the true natural go to .... pro hormones! ,, he go to  pro hormones or designer steroids ...now this.... is steroids my friends,, but we forgivehim for that lol so he uses halodrol or superdrol or whatever designer REAL steroids out there....and gain his 10lb and this dont go away anywhere...he keep them so sudenly the so call true natural isno more 178lb but he is 188!  lol and he is hormonized but he is forgiven and remain natural since he did it only ....for ....7 weeks or 5 weeks so it doesnt count,,so that 8-10 lb dont count ...he is forgiven lol

thennnn in the 4 year mark the peptides come in ... lol and the esterless compounds lol ,, the peptides ofcourse are for research so it is natural ,, everyone sell them ,, look online lol every boarding has them free for everyone to use lol 40 dolaros and you got peptides who put water into muscle lol  so it is used by naturals ,,

and ofcourse on top of that ANTI ESTROGENS AND AROMATZE INHIBITOR...FOR RESEARCH USED ALL OVER BY TRUE NTURALS..

so sadly this is true natural for you today ,, some fellasdo it with out all this ...and only use some halodrol at one time and creatine,, those are the only one who are close to true naturals....

this is the truth my friends,, this si the truth!

gh15 approved

That's the natural competitor maybe, earlier talk was of completely natural, non competitive.
I don't do any pills, not even aspirin for a headache. The only thing I have introduced in the last year is whey protein straight after a workout. Other than that its all normal high protein, low carb foods with a high carb day every 4-5 days.

[Stavios]

and your concept of what can be achieved applies to 5+ billion people??
 

pretty much 

[Stavios]

its been a misconception that natural guys hate on juicers.. its actually the other way around....
it seems that in a juicers mind ... whatever level he started taking drugs at is the benchmark for all natural..
and no natural can look good or better than them WRONG..... !
what does a peron who has trained let for argument sake say 2 yrs natural then took drugs.. know about every natural on Earth... guys who have been training10 20 yrs natural....  
these bards have become totally ridiculous..
anyway.... my 2 cents
...
mes out

I have no hate at all, I think the guy looks great

(of course delusional people say he looks like shit because they can't identify with picture.if they saw that guy in person they would notice he looks like he has some years in the gym)

[Stavios]

its been a misconception that natural guys hate on juicers.. its actually the other way around....
it seems that in a juicers mind ... whatever level he started taking drugs at is the benchmark for all natural..
and no natural can look good or better than them WRONG..... !
what does a peron who has trained let for argument sake say 2 yrs natural then took drugs.. know about every natural on Earth... guys who have been training10 20 yrs natural....    
these bards have become totally ridiculous..
anyway.... my 2 cents
...
mes out

like I said, those SAME person that have been 10 years naturaly come to ME for advice.
they come to ME to ask me why the fuck they have seen me go from a skinny tiny tits at 135 lbs when I first join the gym to a lean 240 pounder when they stayed 180 lbs the whole time (and they were in the gym before myself)

[jaejonna]

Layne Norton says he is natural so it must be true  

Great natural physique right there...

[RC Money]

Great natural physique right there...

Does that douche seriously claim natty??

[Stavios]

Does that douche seriously claim natty??

Yes but he is Layne approved so.. 

[Palpatine Q]

Thats not a good natural after 7 years of training sorry.

X2  i looked better than that when i was 16 years old

[Stavios]

X2  i looked better than that when i was 16 years old

picutres are deceiving you would say he looks good in person

[Palpatine Q]

picutres are deceiving you would say he looks good in person

Probably...I'm just going by what i see.

[BiGHer]

I feel you which is why I have mostly stopped trying to get much bigger and instead prefer to maintain what I have already built through hard work with minimal effort, execpt for those few inspired workouts here and there lol.

To be honest my new motivation for lifting weights and eating heavy is to simply keep my weight and size the same while I do all of my grappling training and mma conditioning. It is a new goal, instead of delusionaly building, or hoping to build pro level mass as a natural I am content to be 200lbs at 5'8" while I workout around 4hrs a day which is pretty hard so it is a fun realistic natural goal to have.

See, this is what I respect ^^^^^^^^

I don't understand the constant arguments over natural or not natural... whos better, whos worse... whos lying about it, who isn't...

I'll break it down simply:  Set goals and act accordingly.

RC Money has set a goal of pursuing MMA and maintaining what he has in terms of muscle mass.  Great goal and if he is happy with that and it motivates him in the gym than that is awesome.

I can't stand those who claim their goal is the IFBB and then try to claim natural.  If your goal is to be the best natural you can be, then pursue that goal, display your best true natural physique and be proud of it.  If you aren't satisfied with that then guess what???  You need a new goal!!

If your goal is to have the best physique you can possible obtain than go for it, juice and all!

If you want to be the strongest lifter then go for it and do whatever that will take.

My point is, why set a goal and then lie to others about what you did to achieve that?  Why not just set a goal that you are really proud of and be proud of whatever you did to get there?  I just don't get the lying... whatever it may be about...

[Stavios]

See, this is what I respect ^^^^^^^^

I don't understand the constant arguments over natural or not natural... whos better, whos worse... whos lying about it, who isn't...

I'll break it down simply:  Set goals and act accordingly.

RC Money has set a goal of pursuing MMA and maintaining what he has in terms of muscle mass.  Great goal and if he is happy with that and it motivates him in the gym than that is awesome.

I can't stand those who claim their goal is the IFBB and then try to claim natural.  If your goal is to be the best natural you can be, then pursue that goal, display your best true natural physique and be proud of it.  If you aren't satisfied with that then guess what???  You need a new goal!!

If your goal is to have the best physique you can possible obtain than go for it, juice and all!

If you want to be the strongest lifter then go for it and do whatever that will take.

My point is, why set a goal and then lie to others about what you did to achieve that?  Why not just set a goal that you are really proud of and be proud of whatever you did to get there?  I just don't get the lying... whatever it may be about...

great post

[RC Money]

See, this is what I respect ^^^^^^^^

I don't understand the constant arguments over natural or not natural... whos better, whos worse... whos lying about it, who isn't...

I'll break it down simply:  Set goals and act accordingly.

RC Money has set a goal of pursuing MMA and maintaining what he has in terms of muscle mass.  Great goal and if he is happy with that and it motivates him in the gym than that is awesome.

I can't stand those who claim their goal is the IFBB and then try to claim natural.  If your goal is to be the best natural you can be, then pursue that goal, display your best true natural physique and be proud of it.  If you aren't satisfied with that then guess what???  You need a new goal!!

If your goal is to have the best physique you can possible obtain than go for it, juice and all!

If you want to be the strongest lifter then go for it and do whatever that will take.

My point is, why set a goal and then lie to others about what you did to achieve that?  Why not just set a goal that you are really proud of and be proud of whatever you did to get there?  I just don't get the lying... whatever it may be about...

This, lying about achievements on a message board must come with some serious mental issues.

[kiwiol]

I'm with Adonis and Jaime here. That guy is hardly a good natural. Guys like Stavios and Flintstones who have average genetics and have started juicing at a young age are simply not qualified to say what is possible naturally, sorry. There are guys who post in Getbig who blow that guy in the first pic out of the water, Adonis included.

[Grape Ape]

There are guys who post in Getbig who blow that guy in the first pic out of the water, Adonis included.

And there are guys who post in Getbig who would just blow him.

[kiwiol]

And there are guys who post in Getbig who would just blow him.

Leave Khofo out of this!!!

[Stavios]

I'm with Adonis and Jaime here. That guy is hardly a good natural. Guys like Stavios and Flintstones who have average genetics and have started juicing at a young age are simply not qualified to say what is possible naturally, sorry. There are guys who post in Getbig who blow that guy in the first pic out of the water, Adonis included.

why not ?

It's funny because I see a lot of natural in real life who are just as I described. All of them.

and on the Interwebz, the naturals are 50 lbs bigger, a million dollar richer and prettier too 

[kiwiol]

why not ?

It's funny because I see a lot of natural in real life who are just as I described. All of them.

and on the Interwebz, the naturals are 50 lbs bigger, a million dollar richer and prettier too 

Because you obviously have no idea what can be accomplished with 10-15+ years of consistent, systematic training and good genetics. You may have seen a few naturals, but you haven't seen all of them and the world/reality is bigger and more diverse than what you think it is.

There are naturals out there who are better. None of them may look like a pro bodybuilder, but to say the guy in those pics is among the best is just plain wrong. What if I told you that I've seen guys who are far better? There's not a lot of truly impressive naturals out there, but there are a few. Not every single guy who lifts is into reading the "bible" and sticking pins in their ass cheeks, lol.

Johnny Falcon is another example of someone far superior. And he's not the only one, trust me.

[Overload]

Because you obviously have no idea what can be accomplished with 10-15+ years of consistent, systematic training and good genetics. You may have seen a few naturals, but you haven't seen all of them and the world/reality is bigger and more diverse than what you think it is.

There are naturals out there who are better. None of them may look like a pro bodybuilder, but to say the guy in those pics is among the best is just plain wrong. What if I told you that I've seen guys who are far better? There's not a lot of truly impressive naturals out there, but there are a few. Not every single guy who lifts is into reading the "bible" and sticking pins in their ass cheeks, lol.

Johnny Falcon is another example of someone far superior. And he's not the only one, trust me.

The problem is, you don't know for a fact that Adonis or any of these others guys you mention, are natural.

If you want to take their word for it, go ahead.

Some of us know better.

This entire arguement is not valid, because non of us know which person is truely 100% natural. We can only take them on their word and what we know after being in this game for many years. I can spot a juicer a mile away, but you don't have to take my word for it.

[Stavios]

Because you obviously have no idea what can be accomplished with 10-15+ years of consistent, systematic training and good genetics. You may have seen a few naturals, but you haven't seen all of them and the world/reality is bigger and more diverse than what you think it is.
Johnny Falcon is another example of someone far superior. And he's not the only one, trust me.

yes because I have NEVER seen someone who has train for 15 years, ever

Falcon was on the sauce btw

[madg]

Great natural physique right there...

^^^ trenbolone

[BiGHer]

Again though, why does it matter???

Natural or Not...

I agree with you Kiwiol that not everyone who lifts wants to stick needles in their ass and compete in bodybuilding.  Why does it matter though either way??

It's 2011, we are all educated enough to understand the real effects of steroid use on the body so who cares who does them and who doesn't, when they do them or don't do them.  The obvious lying just doesn't make sense to me.  However Overload is right though, we are just going on everyones word.

I do have to disagree with you on somethings Kiwiol... If see enough naturals, you'll learn what natural looks like whether you were natural for 1 year or your whole life.  Just like bodybuilding contests... if you look at enough photos, after a while you know who is holding water, who didn't diet hard enough, who looks flat, etc... I'm not a huge believer in experience or age or whatever giving you a better edge than someone without.  If that were the case, Phil Heath would not be Mr. O.  Respect in anything in life is earned, not just given because of a length of time.  

I love how people will argue with someone about whether they are natural when they claim to be but even if someone looks like trash, if they say they are on juice, you don't often hear an argument... just something to think about...

[lovemonkey]

In terms of sheer muscle mass a natural won't get very far. You may look built, athletic or whatever but never huge.

What can make a natural look impressive though is of you build a decent amount of muscle mass(say +20lbs on top of your average adult muscle mass) and then get shredded while keeping most of that muscle. So in my book, most naturals don't have problem with getting the muscle mass, it's just a matter of controlling bodyfat and water retention. For example the guy Stavios posted pics of is probably close to what's achievable muscle wise naturally, but he can certainly get rid of some blubber and look more impressive.

Height and the shape of your muscle bellies also matter a lot.