Author Topic: Depressing! Mike and Ray Mentzer. Look at Mike drag on that cig...  (Read 69187 times)

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Re: Depressing! Mike and Ray Mentzer. Look at Mike drag on that cig...
« Reply #75 on: October 16, 2011, 07:31:17 PM »
When muscle heroes fall they fall hard.    :(
And, yes, Mike did G4P.
I love these guys who get mouthy about someone who's not around to defend. This Bay degenerate needs to watch what he says. 

dyslexic

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Re: Depressing! Mike and Ray Mentzer. Look at Mike drag on that cig...
« Reply #76 on: October 16, 2011, 07:53:29 PM »
Here we go again.


(On another note) Mike liked to correlate science with bodybuilding. In order to do that, he felt the need to demonstrate the objectivity of science, therefore rationalizing that there must also be a *science* to bodybuilding. This is where his "dogma" set in. Objectivism does not allow for any subjectivity.

Ayn Rand and books like "the Fountainhead" helped support his writings. Why? Because she was totally immersed in Objectivism.


Reading what he wrote  with that objective point of view was quite compelling and convincing, the problem is "there are many ways to skin a cat"


You can get from California to New York more than one way, as is the case in bodybuilding. Not one person, successful or un-successful has achieved their goals in the *exact* same way.


Mike utilized analogies that were very convincing, and based on science. That did not make them *right* per se, but they did provide an interesting read. He also used verbology that nearly always required a dictionary on hand, possibly even more than a Standard Version.


Mike found his "niche" and he went with it. It is unfortunate that he had to become so delusional in his latter years. He definitely had motivation and a busy mind.


Many, many bodybuilders have taken pieces of his "philosophy" and added them to their own programs as they saw fit. Lee Labrada and Dorian Yates are two of them.

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Re: Depressing! Mike and Ray Mentzer. Look at Mike drag on that cig...
« Reply #77 on: October 16, 2011, 11:01:25 PM »
I love these guys who get mouthy about someone who's not around to defend. This Bay degenerate needs to watch what he says. 

Your exact location???

dyslexic

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Re: Depressing! Mike and Ray Mentzer. Look at Mike drag on that cig...
« Reply #78 on: October 16, 2011, 11:16:09 PM »
Your exact location???


Venice Beach.. North of Orange County... look for the cigarette smoke

Primemuscle

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Re: Depressing! Mike and Ray Mentzer. Look at Mike drag on that cig...
« Reply #79 on: October 16, 2011, 11:27:47 PM »

Venice Beach.. North of Orange County... look for the cigarette smoke

LOL! Are you the only dude in Venice Beach who is smoking? I highly doubt that. There's a whole lot of folks in Venice Beach. Nice place though if you like canals. :)

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Re: Depressing! Mike and Ray Mentzer. Look at Mike drag on that cig...
« Reply #80 on: October 17, 2011, 01:20:15 AM »
Gay4pay might mean different things to different people. It is an easy step to believe those who do that kind of stuff are gay themselves.

We have heard stories about musclemen in LA doing all sorts of things they wouldn't ordinarily do so that they could live the lifestyle and not have to work.

I suppose those muscleheads knew who was offering what and I suppose posing for gay men was something that started some guys out in that direction.

Apparently some guy used to let bodybuilders stay at his place for free. He never touched them but the muscleheads had to walk around the place in underwear

and that sort of thing. When a Dr Michael W visited English Bay Beach in Vancouver in July of 1970 he told me that Arnold and Franco and Joe and heaps of the

top guys were involved in the gay community. I honestly didn't know what to think. This was a doctor who prescribed anabolics to the bodybuilders. I suppose

a few guys who lacked funds might have had to pay for their gear in other ways. The good doctor lost interest in helping me be Mr Universe when I invited him

home to my place for dinner....to meet my wife.

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Re: Depressing! Mike and Ray Mentzer. Look at Mike drag on that cig...
« Reply #81 on: October 17, 2011, 02:27:38 AM »
What Mike tried to get across is that though in one sense we are all unique and different; in another sense: biologically, physiologically, we are all identical. We all function with the exact same principles: carbon base life form, cardiovascular and respiratory operate the same way for everybody. How we need the same macronutrients for energy, micronutrients for various bodily functions. If this wasn't the case then such a thing as medical science could not exist.

There does exist a general OPITIMAL method for muscle hypertrophy that exists and applies to everyone. The only difference is the specifics and the response. For example, if you have a bacterial infection an antibiotic treatment is the optimal way to treat that infection . This treatment will vary with the individual as well as the response. For instance, I happen to be allergic to penicillin  so an alternative antibiotic was use, tetracycline. So though the specific varied the general principle still applied to me as it does to everybody. Of course there are cases where a person, due to a myriad of reasons, are still not able to recover from the infection and even die. But the general principle remains that it is antibiotics that is use to combat bacterial infections.

Everyone needs calories to survive and function. How many calories varies among individuals. So again, when it comes to how things effect the human body the sane general principles apply to EVERYBODY and only the specifics vary. In the famous Miami shoot out, a bullet that blew out the heart of the criminal was still not enough to prevent him from killing three more officers with his Ruger Mini-14. Blood was still circulating just long enough for him to get off a few more shots. A bullet to the thigh of the criminal during the infamous LA shootout was enough to end it right there. Same general principle applied it was specifics that varied. 

With bodybuilding the three basic principles are frequency (how often you train), duration (how long you train) and intensity (how hard you train). Those are the necessary ingredients that apply to everybody. Nobody is going to get big muscles without progressive over load (and by progressive I don't mean just more resistance but rather progressive stimuli), for a certain number of times and for a certain amount of time. It's finding the optimal protocol as it applies to each individual. Therein lies the rub.

But trenbolona and HGH makes this all pretty much moot.

WillGrant

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Re: Depressing! Mike and Ray Mentzer. Look at Mike drag on that cig...
« Reply #82 on: October 17, 2011, 03:23:25 AM »
A lot of it has to do with ego and insecurity.  Many guys believe they can tell when someone is gay.  When they learn that someone they looked up to does/did G4P it yokes them out of their complacency.  Maybe their powers of perception are not as keen as they thought. Similarly, their image of what a man hetero or gay man looks like or behaves like is also shattered.  If the big muscle guy is doing g4p and you didn’t know about it, who else don’t you know about?  If other people know about it (and you didn’t) what assumptions might people make about you?  Does every big guy do g4p?  If you have big muscles and show off your body to other men are you suspect for doing g4p?  It's a slippery slope.  :-\

Mike definitely did g4p.  I heard Ray did as well, but my source for that was not as ironclad.
Most of the guys that do it - do it to fund there drug habits and BB lifestyles, how many are actualy gay though? I know female hookers that do bi doubles but arnt into girls in there real lifes , its all for money.. does that bother the gay fellows that pay money to these guys knowing they are not gay and its just for $ or does it make it even more enjoyable making a straight guy do things out of desperation for drug money, sure some would be gay but alot arnt and the gay $ seems to be endless with it comes to paying for muscular bodies to pose whack off and take a length up the clacker .


are gays that pay for g4p known as johns like female hookers clients or nancys ?  :D

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Re: Depressing! Mike and Ray Mentzer. Look at Mike drag on that cig...
« Reply #83 on: October 17, 2011, 05:59:44 AM »





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Re: Depressing! Mike and Ray Mentzer. Look at Mike drag on that cig...
« Reply #84 on: October 17, 2011, 07:05:38 AM »
I know female hookers that do bi doubles but arnt into girls in there real lifes , its all for money..

I think most female hookers/porn actresses that do bi stuff aren't into MEN in their real lives, it's all for money.

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Re: Depressing! Mike and Ray Mentzer. Look at Mike drag on that cig...
« Reply #85 on: October 17, 2011, 07:32:22 AM »

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Re: Depressing! Mike and Ray Mentzer. Look at Mike drag on that cig...
« Reply #86 on: October 17, 2011, 08:39:16 AM »
When you have spent your whole life in a thong, posing on stage and taking drugs for a plastic trophy it might wear on a man when he realizes how much of his life was bullshit and he really accomplished nothing to show for it

this is true, but they shouldnt have given up on life

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Re: Depressing! Mike and Ray Mentzer. Look at Mike drag on that cig...
« Reply #87 on: October 17, 2011, 11:24:51 AM »
The problem for these two bozos is that they had each other to bitch and complain to every day. They never grew up essentially.

Parker

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Re: Depressing! Mike and Ray Mentzer. Look at Mike drag on that cig...
« Reply #88 on: October 17, 2011, 11:58:06 AM »
I like how the cameraman focused on that chick that went in (in the beginning)
Mike sounds and looks like a depressed, chain smoking Ned Flanders.

Both seemed to be depressing to be around, what with their Porno mustaches, and 70s glass frames.

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Re: Depressing! Mike and Ray Mentzer. Look at Mike drag on that cig...
« Reply #89 on: October 17, 2011, 12:05:06 PM »
Great post. Explained it very well.  Up to the last sentence. Then you went and ruined it ;(
What Mike tried to get across is that though in one sense we are all unique and different; in another sense: biologically, physiologically, we are all identical. We all function with the exact same principles: carbon base life form, cardiovascular and respiratory operate the same way for everybody. How we need the same macronutrients for energy, micronutrients for various bodily functions. If this wasn't the case then such a thing as medical science could not exist.

There does exist a general OPITIMAL method for muscle hypertrophy that exists and applies to everyone. The only difference is the specifics and the response. For example, if you have a bacterial infection an antibiotic treatment is the optimal way to treat that infection . This treatment will vary with the individual as well as the response. For instance, I happen to be allergic to penicillin  so an alternative antibiotic was use, tetracycline. So though the specific varied the general principle still applied to me as it does to everybody. Of course there are cases where a person, due to a myriad of reasons, are still not able to recover from the infection and even die. But the general principle remains that it is antibiotics that is use to combat bacterial infections.

Everyone needs calories to survive and function. How many calories varies among individuals. So again, when it comes to how things effect the human body the sane general principles apply to EVERYBODY and only the specifics vary. In the famous Miami shoot out, a bullet that blew out the heart of the criminal was still not enough to prevent him from killing three more officers with his Ruger Mini-14. Blood was still circulating just long enough for him to get off a few more shots. A bullet to the thigh of the criminal during the infamous LA shootout was enough to end it right there. Same general principle applied it was specifics that varied. 

With bodybuilding the three basic principles are frequency (how often you train), duration (how long you train) and intensity (how hard you train). Those are the necessary ingredients that apply to everybody. Nobody is going to get big muscles without progressive over load (and by progressive I don't mean just more resistance but rather progressive stimuli), for a certain number of times and for a certain amount of time. It's finding the optimal protocol as it applies to each individual. Therein lies the rub.

But trenbolona and HGH makes this all pretty much moot.


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Re: Depressing! Mike and Ray Mentzer. Look at Mike drag on that cig...
« Reply #90 on: October 17, 2011, 12:21:27 PM »
...Pretty pathetic.  When you have spent your whole life in a thong, posing on stage and taking drugs for a plastic trophy it might wear on a man when he realizes how much of his life was bullshit and he really accomplished nothing to show for it.  Yes give the guys a break.  But let's keep it real. 

The problem for these two bozos is that they had each other to bitch and complain to every day. They never grew up essentially.

x2  :'(

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Re: Depressing! Mike and Ray Mentzer. Look at Mike drag on that cig...
« Reply #91 on: October 17, 2011, 01:00:20 PM »
How many bozo bodybuilders are still relevant and so hotly debated as Mike Mentzer? I don't think any other bodybuilder had such an impact on training methodology than Mentzer. Some to praise him and some to criticize him. Even Arnold came out of retire just to get back at Mentzer (stated in the biography "Fantastic."

There's not a bodybuilding board in the world that doesn't have some Mentzer debate going on at some time

io856

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Re: Depressing! Mike and Ray Mentzer. Look at Mike drag on that cig...
« Reply #92 on: October 17, 2011, 01:03:21 PM »
30years of discussion  :o :o

dyslexic

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Re: Depressing! Mike and Ray Mentzer. Look at Mike drag on that cig...
« Reply #93 on: October 17, 2011, 04:11:11 PM »
LOL! Are you the only dude in Venice Beach who is smoking? I highly doubt that. There's a whole lot of folks in Venice Beach. Nice place though if you like canals. :)

Different kinda *smoke*  ;D

WillGrant

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Re: Depressing! Mike and Ray Mentzer. Look at Mike drag on that cig...
« Reply #94 on: October 17, 2011, 04:11:33 PM »
Most of the guys that do it - do it to fund there drug habits and BB lifestyles, how many are actualy gay though? I know female hookers that do bi doubles but arnt into girls in there real lifes , its all for money.. does that bother the gay fellows that pay money to these guys knowing they are not gay and its just for $ or does it make it even more enjoyable making a straight guy do things out of desperation for drug money, sure some would be gay but alot arnt and the gay $ seems to be endless with it comes to paying for muscular bodies to pose whack off and take a length up the clacker .


are gays that pay for g4p known as johns like female hookers clients or nancys ?  :D
Bay no likey ?  :'(

dyslexic

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Re: Depressing! Mike and Ray Mentzer. Look at Mike drag on that cig...
« Reply #95 on: October 17, 2011, 04:17:18 PM »
Great post. Explained it very well.  Up to the last sentence. Then you went and ruined it ;(

He should have added "supposedly" ~ but then that wouldn't be very *objective*


Mike made many very convincing arguments for his "theories" ~ of this there is no doubt.

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Re: Depressing! Mike and Ray Mentzer. Look at Mike drag on that cig...
« Reply #96 on: October 17, 2011, 04:20:40 PM »
For fuck sake, give it a rest.

dyslexic

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Re: Depressing! Mike and Ray Mentzer. Look at Mike drag on that cig...
« Reply #97 on: October 17, 2011, 04:22:23 PM »
For fuck sake, give it a rest.


I thought the argument has been going on for over 30 years. Isn't it a tradition by now?


Wait... what are we giving a rest to? Blue colored font?

Parker

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Re: Depressing! Mike and Ray Mentzer. Look at Mike drag on that cig...
« Reply #98 on: October 17, 2011, 04:27:10 PM »
The problem for these two bozos is that they had each other to bitch and complain to every day. They never grew up essentially.
Exactly, they fed off of each others misery---misery loves company. And that's why Ray couldn't get a girl. Both seem miserable wrecks to be around-----Ayn Rand does that to people.
One becomes "objectively miserable".

Vince B

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Re: Depressing! Mike and Ray Mentzer. Look at Mike drag on that cig...
« Reply #99 on: October 17, 2011, 04:55:15 PM »
Ray and Mike were both realists and cynical because of this. Both were intense guys. Yes, it was sad to hear Ray say he couldn't get a gal. This was the guy who dated Rachel McLish for a while. I introduced Ray to Pam who he married. They eventually divorced so I guess Ray wasn't too good with the ladies. You have to wonder why those two intelligent guys messed around with drugs the way they did. They seemed to live and train with the same intensity. Both took risks and paid the price for what they did. At least they looked after each other near the end. I spent some time with Ray in 1991 and he had a good business going with his MedX clinics using those special machines. He was driving a new BMW 535. He opened another gym after that then tried to win another contest but got sick while huge. It seems that just about everything they did as adult men revolved around bodybuilding.