I knew it - Seal Beach - D.A. expects an insanity defense

[stuntmovie]

Kind of related here ,,,,

Back in the 50's there were a good number of hospitals referred to as 'insane asylums' where people were locked up to avoid haming themselves or others (I recall a few in Napa, Ca where grapes are growing now).

But one month they were all released and the asylums were shut down forever.

True occurance! So where do all these insane, innocent  killers end up today?

[The Ugly]

Absolutely! But satisfaction at another's loss is a chimera. Totally human, tho.  

I'll get back to you after I look up chimera.

[Coach is Back!]

LOL...that's how I feel when Chimps gets all smart n shit. Hahaha!

[The Ugly]

I'm still not sure what it means, but I'm probably cool with it.

[The Ugly]

Crimes like this should always end with a suicide or police shootout. Saves everyone a lot of heartache and frustration.

Sorry for your loss, Coach.

[stuntmovie]

CHAOS, Yea, I agree with you. Stats can prove anything you want them to.

I think I learned that the very first day of of Stats 101.

[dr.chimps]

I'll get back to you after I look up chimera.

Just a fancy word for illusion. My bad. Got a few things on the go, and into a gifted box of Coors Lite.  

/and paths of glory is now on tcm!

[Straw Man]

Kind of related here ,,,,

Back in the 50's there were a good number of hospitals referred to as 'insane asylums' where people were locked up to avoid haming themselves or others (I recall a few in Napa, Ca where grapes are growing now).

But one month they were all released and the asylums were shut down forever.
True occurance! So where do all these insane, innocent  killers end up today?

I think those cuts came during the Reagan administration

[pellius]

1. Don't hijack this thread.

2. I can (as with any good Christian) can forgive but we will NEVER forget.

3. We believe if he TRULY repentant and accepts God as his Lord and savior then yes, he will. If that's what he chooses then it's between him and God. 

Coach, as you well know, there are religious extremist. Islamic fundamentalist are a good example.  They are obsessed with their beliefs and try to force others to become just like them and persecute others that don't share their beliefs. They are crazy people and cannot be reasoned with.

What you don't hear much of, because the main stream media agrees with them, is the Secular Extremist. The ones who won't allow the manger scene during Christmas or don't even want the term "Merry Christmas" said. They are the ones that had that little cross removed on the Los Angeles County Seal in 2004. They are the polar opposite of the religious extremist. They are crazy people that cannot be reasoned with. ND is one of these. Just ignore him. He is a secular extremist. It drives him nuts that there are people that don't share his beliefs. He is a crazy person. He is also a fraud and a phony. He tries to portray himself in a way that he is nowhere near to promote his agenda. He is beneath you. If he tries to high-jack your thread, as he is now, report him to the moderators and have his posts deleted. He's a crazy person and a phony and should take his rants to the religious board.

[dr.chimps]

Coach, as you well know, there are religious extremist. Islamic fundamentalist are a good example.  They are obsessed with their beliefs and try to force others to become just like them and persecute others that don't share their beliefs. They are crazy people and cannot be reasoned with.

What you don't hear much of, because the main stream media agrees with them, is the Secular Extremist. The ones who won't allow the manger scene during Christmas or don't even want the term "Merry Christmas" said. They are the ones that had that little cross removed on the Los Angeles County Seal in 2004. They are the polar opposite of the religious extremist. They are crazy people that cannot be reasoned with. ND is one of these. Just ignore him. He is a secular extremist. It drives him nuts that there are people that don't share his beliefs. He is a crazy person. He is also a fraud and a phony. He tries to portray himself in a way that he is nowhere near to promote his agenda. He is beneath you. If he tries to high-jack your thread, as he is now, report him to the moderators and have his posts deleted. He's a crazy person and a phony and should take his rants to the religious board.

Secular extremist!? Really? Atheists can be every bit as driven as their spiritual counter-parts, but wow. That's some good polemic. 4-5 pages to follow, minimum.   

[Your Average GymRat]

Fuck the coach. He sounds like a chick. Man up and take it all in stride. Worry about your own household and learn to mind your business. Chump. 

[avxo]

INTERESTING and mostly intelligent discussion.

It's interesting to see the remarks when emotions are involved such as COACH's initial input followed by an intelligent apology.

But I still have no clue on HOW I SHOULD INTELLIGENTLY FEEL about capital punishment, but my emotional feeling is a ten-cent bullet through the cranium with no paper work except for an IT IS DONE notice once there is no doubt that he is guilty.

DOC, a friend of mine steals and eats apples when he goes shopping realizing that nothing will happen if he gets caught .... but if a big guy with a hand-chopper walked the aisles, he'd be the most honest shopper it the world. (My attempt at simplifying a complicated situation.)

I don't have particularly strong feelings about the death penalty one way or the other. In a way, I find it to be a remnant of an older time. I think that I'd favor a life term with no possibility of parole "and this time we mean it" type of deal.

You are right that the practically infinite delays are ridiculous and that a death sentence almost always means life in prison, in the sense that the appeals process can run well into the decades. Don't get me wrong, I want appeals, but the situation now -- appeal upon appeal upon appeal -- is out of control.

At the same time, it's ridiculous when he have Courts refuse to hear new evidence that exonerates someone and a Supreme Court Justice argues that although the evidence in question would exonerate an individual, that is irrelevant because all appeals have been exhausted.

It's hard to strike the right balance - perhaps impossible.

My biggest concern with the death penalty is the finality of it. So it should be reserved only for the most egregious cases, where guilt can be proven conclusively and not just beyond a reasonable doubt.

As to the argument that it brings some relief to victims: that reasoning carries little weight in my book. But reasonable people can differ.

[The Ugly]

Fuck the coach. He sounds like a chick. Man up and take it all in stride. Worry about your own household and learn to mind your business. Chump. 

Excellent contribution to the discourse.

[Your Average GymRat]

So you deal in ten dollar words. Good for you. I deal in fists and hundred dollar bills, little man.

[pellius]

I think a good argument can be made that capital punishment is not a deterrent to crime. But that is because of the way it is enforced. When someone is sentence to death he knows, and everybody knows, that's just the beginning. He's not going to be put to death anytime soon. He's got a good 15-20 years before it MIGHT become a real possibility. But to say that death is not a deterrent is to ignore the obvious. If you live in Syria, North Korea, Saudi Arabia... people view the death penalty a little bit differently. If you open a business and someone from the Mexican drug cartel said that you need to pay them a small protection fee you are either going to close shop and move far, far away or you pay the fee. You don't want to die any time soon. But if they told you that if you refuse to cooperate then you're in big trouble .... in the year 2031 -- there might not be a great sense of urgency.

Punishment is a deterrent. That's why we behave. The harsher the punishment the more it will be obeyed. Other than tortured to death, death is the harshest punishment we can give.  The problem is often not the laws on the books but how it is enforce.
 

[NarcissisticDeity]

Coach, as you well know, there are religious extremist. Islamic fundamentalist are a good example.  They are obsessed with their beliefs and try to force others to become just like them and persecute others that don't share their beliefs. They are crazy people and cannot be reasoned with.

What you don't hear much of, because the main stream media agrees with them, is the Secular Extremist. The ones who won't allow the manger scene during Christmas or don't even want the term "Merry Christmas" said. They are the ones that had that little cross removed on the Los Angeles County Seal in 2004. They are the polar opposite of the religious extremist. They are crazy people that cannot be reasoned with. ND is one of these. Just ignore him. He is a secular extremist. It drives him nuts that there are people that don't share his beliefs. He is a crazy person. He is also a fraud and a phony. He tries to portray himself in a way that he is nowhere near to promote his agenda. He is beneath you. If he tries to high-jack your thread, as he is now, report him to the moderators and have his posts deleted. He's a crazy person and a phony and should take his rants to the religious board.

How do you try and force an unbelief on someone? Who is forcing you to not believe in God? ever hear of the separation of church and state? were the founding fathers ' secular extremists ' as well? and that's what you consider extreme? keeping God out of the public form?  I thought extremism is when zealots fly planes into buildings and Christians shoot abortion doctors , I guess my view on extremism is much different than yours and to claim I'm the same as them tsk tsk you'll need to do a better job of backing up your claims because you haven't offered any proof just an ad hominem attacks 

[pellius]

I don't have particularly strong feelings about the death penalty one way or the other. In a way, I find it to be a remnant of an older time. I think that I'd favor a life term with no possibility of parole "and this time we mean it" type of deal.

You are right that the practically infinite delays are ridiculous and that a death sentence almost always means life in prison, in the sense that the appeals process can run well into the decades. Don't get me wrong, I want appeals, but the situation now -- appeal upon appeal upon appeal -- is out of control.

At the same time, it's ridiculous when he have Courts refuse to hear new evidence that exonerates someone and a Supreme Court Justice argues that although the evidence in question would exonerate an individual, that is irrelevant because all appeals have been exhausted.

It's hard to strike the right balance - perhaps impossible.

My biggest concern with the death penalty is the finality of it. So it should be reserved only for the most egregious cases, where guilt can be proven conclusively and not just beyond a reasonable doubt.

As to the argument that it brings some relief to victims: that reasoning carries little weight in my book. But reasonable people can differ.

Earlier I made a post that because of it's length many will pass over but included in it was the reasons for the death penalty. This was one of them.

Executing a murderer finally brings closure to the living who knew and loved the victim. You may not think it matters but unless you've been there, and I have, it matters. It matters a lot. As long as the person is alive: Living, breathing, eating, interacting and befriending other, writing letters and emails, in some case getting married and having relationships, watching TV and movies, reading, playing basketball; in cases like Timothy McVeigh and Manson getting interviewed and still being in the public eye.... Once they're dead, it's over. You don't think about the murderer anymore because there's nothing to think about. Nobody cares about McVeigh now but I just read another article on Manson about a month ago. And you will keep hearing about him when his review board comes up because he's still alive. You will still get the occasional "What is Manson Up to Now?" And that's because he is still alive. He should be dead. And of course by closure I don't mean you forget about the person you lost. You still think about the victim but in a different way. You think more in a way that you would when a loved one has passed on. You think more about their life and the impact they had on you. Not so much that they were murdered. Their murderer is gone now. There's no longer that nagging sense of unfinished business.

 

[dr.chimps]

I think a good argument can be made that capital punishment is not a deterrent to crime. But that is because of the way it is enforced. When someone is sentence to death he knows, and everybody knows, that's just the beginning. He's not going to be put to death anytime soon. He's got a good 15-20 years before it MIGHT become a real possibility. But to say that death is not a deterrent is to ignore the obvious. If you live in Syria, North Korea, Saudi Arabia... people view the death penalty a little bit differently. If you open a business and someone from the Mexican drug cartel said that you need to pay them a small protection fee you are either going to close shop and move far, far away or you pay the fee. You don't want to die any time soon. But if they told you that if you refuse to cooperate then you're in big trouble .... in the year 2031 -- there might not be a great sense of urgency.

Punishment is a deterrent. That's why we behave. The harsher the punishment the more it will be obeyed. Other than tortured to death, death is the harshest punishment we can give.  The problem is often not the laws on the books but how it is enforce.

Actually, the best 'deterrent' to violent crime is getting older. Most violence is perpetrated by young males, say 18-40. That'd be fine, except for we keep reproducing.    

[NarcissisticDeity]

Secular extremist!? Really? Atheists can be every bit as driven as their spiritual counter-parts, but wow. That's some good polemic. 4-5 pages to follow, minimum.   

No 4-5 pages to follow because he's scared to ' debate ' me which is why he posted to me indirectly with nothing but pleas to emotion and ad hominem attacks , the funny thing is I never once attacked his character or person , another typical day on GetBig , however he likes to fancy himself a man of integrity and honor and just proved himself to the contrary.


lol@ secular extremist

[pellius]

Actually, the best 'deterrent' to violent crime is getting older. Most violence is perpetrated by young males, say 18-40. That'd be fine, except for we keep reproducing.    

lol! It's not a deterrent. Nobody doesn't kill because they are afraid of getting old. Old people don't kill for the same reason they don't do anything. They're just too tired and really don't give a crap about anything anymore. There's just nothing worth while to kill for.

[Grape Ape]

I think those cuts came during the Reagan administration

You'd think after getting no responses from your first two posts that nobody here cares enough about anything you think to actually engage you in discussion.

I disagree with a lot of your posts, but I always thought you actually had somewhat of a brain behind them.  What you're doing in this thread is just being a trolling bag of shit.  Shut the fuck up already.

[dr.chimps]

lol! It's not a deterrent. Nobody doesn't kill because they are afraid of getting old. Old people don't kill for the same reason they don't do anything. They're just too tired and really don't give a crap about anything anymore. There's just nothing worth while to kill for.

Missed my quotes, I see. You really need to read what I write, and not what you think I write.

Most violent crime is committed by young males, and stupidly. Not in movie serial killer storylines, or in your far-fetched posts. Just simply young males who hit someone too hard, kill the girlfriend because of some stupid perceived fault, or just too much alcohol combined with too little brain cells. It's not rocket surgery, nor any big lesson on morals.

When males get older, and test drops, and interests stop being so personal, is when you see real behaviour changes.

[apply85]

mcmanus, there's no knowing how you're going to react when shit like that goes down. Thoughts like "if I'm going down I'm gonna take hm with me" go through your head when ur reading about it on the a computer but when you're in the situation the #1 thing is figuring out what is going on, trust me it's not easy I was on a corner when a shoot out happened, u don't know wtf is happening and you look to how people are behaving around you to find out. people who've been in the situation react first and you follow. #2 is not getting shot, when you hear shots ringing out and ricocheting off shit, you realize how much it's gonna hurt when you get hit and you avoid that. That shit is startling man, as calm as demeanor as I have, it shook me enough so that when I heard cars backfiring from a block away, "oh shit not again" went through my mind for weeks after

[avxo]

Earlier I made a post that because of it's length many will pass over but included in it was the reasons for the death penalty. This was one of them.

You are welcome to your opinion, of course. Clearly it brought closure to you, and that's fine. But I would argue that you shouldn't assume that your particular feelings apply to everyone else, which is what you seem to suggest. There have been plenty of victims who actively advocated against the death penalty for the perpetrator of the crime. The reasons are diverse, but this only serves to prove the point that the death penalty doesn't bring the universal closure to victims that you claim it does.

But anyways, this is a sidenote in my post. My point wasn't that the death penalty is good or bad, or whether we should have or not have it. It is one of those topics where reasonable people will differ, and each will have his or her own good reasons for their opinion. Ultimately, it's a very personal thing, and support or opposition depends on one's convictions, outlook and moral code.

As I said, to me, there are crimes for which the death penalty "feels" like the only appropriate punishment, but one that would, if it were up to me, only be applicable in the most egregious cases with indisputable evidence. I understand that this might limit the applicability of the death penalty and might not agree with your particular viewpoints, but such is life.

I will point out again that if we, as a society, decide to have the death penalty as a punishment for certain crimes, beyond ensuring that it's applied carefully to avoid executing innocent people, we shouldn't transform it into a virtual "life in prison" sentence by a process of perpetual and never-ending appeals. I support appeals to higher Courts for legitimate reasons, but there comes a point when appeals are exhausted, and that point shouldn't be four decades after the original conviction.

[Coach is Back!]

Searching "polmic"