I knew it - Seal Beach - D.A. expects an insanity defense

[che]

I don't have particularly strong feelings about the death penalty one way or the other. In a way, I find it to be a remnant of an older time. I think that I'd favor a life term with no possibility of parole "and this time we mean it" type of deal.

You are right that the practically infinite delays are ridiculous and that a death sentence almost always means life in prison, in the sense that the appeals process can run well into the decades. Don't get me wrong, I want appeals, but the situation now -- appeal upon appeal upon appeal -- is out of control.

At the same time, it's ridiculous when he have Courts refuse to hear new evidence that exonerates someone and a Supreme Court Justice argues that although the evidence in question would exonerate an individual, that is irrelevant because all appeals have been exhausted.

It's hard to strike the right balance - perhaps impossible.

My biggest concern with the death penalty is the finality of it. So it should be reserved only for the most egregious cases, where guilt can be proven conclusively and not just beyond a reasonable doubt.

As to the argument that it brings some relief to victims: that reasoning carries little weight in my book. But reasonable people can differ.

That's my only problem with death penalty.
This man speaks the truth

[NarcissisticDeity]

Searching "polemic"

fixed 

[dr.chimps]

Searching "polmic"

Try 'polemic?'

Add: I note ND ahead of me.     

[Coach is Back!]

Fuck

[pellius]

You are welcome to your opinion, of course. Clearly it brought closure to you, and that's fine. But I would argue that you shouldn't assume that your particular feelings apply to everyone else, which is what you seem to suggest. There have been plenty of victims who actively advocated against the death penalty for the perpetrator of the crime. The reasons are diverse, but this only serves to prove the point that the death penalty doesn't bring the universal closure to victims that you claim it does.

But anyways, this is a sidenote in my post. My point wasn't that the death penalty is good or bad, or whether we should have or not have it. It is one of those topics where reasonable people will differ, and each will have his or her own good reasons for their opinion. Ultimately, it's a very personal thing, and support or opposition depends on one's convictions, outlook and moral code.

As I said, to me, there are crimes for which the death penalty "feels" like the only appropriate punishment, but one that would, if it were up to me, only be applicable in the most egregious cases with indisputable evidence. I understand that this might limit the applicability of the death penalty and might not agree with your particular viewpoints, but such is life.

I will point out again that if we, as a society, decide to have the death penalty as a punishment for certain crimes, beyond ensuring that it's applied carefully to avoid executing innocent people, we shouldn't transform it into a virtual "life in prison" sentence by a process of perpetual and never-ending appeals. I support appeals to higher Courts for legitimate reasons, but there comes a point when appeals are exhausted, and that point shouldn't be four decades after the original conviction.

No, it doesn't apply to everyone. Nothing applies to everyone. But in general, if someone loses a love one they want to see justice. They want that person to pay with their life. Just look at this thread. The majority here want the murderer dead. And they don't even know the victim. And I surprised to read that even in pussified Europe, the majority of the population support the death penalty.

If you lost a daughter, at son, or any love one to a murderer, a day won't go by thinking that while your little girl is dead and buried her murderer is still walking around living and breathing.

[pellius]

That's my only problem with death penalty.
This man speaks the truth

Of course. It should only be reserved for those where their guilt is beyond a shadow of a doubt. I believe that O.J. is a murderer, I would not want the death penalty for him. With this murderer there is not a shadow of a doubt.

[che]

It should only be reserved for those where their guilt is beyond a shadow of a doubt.

I agree

[pellius]

I agree

We seem to agree on a lot of things except your puzzling admiration for the cowardly, Communist, baby killer "Che."

[che]

We seem to agree on a lot of things except your puzzling admiration for the cowardly, Communist, baby killer "Che."

No comment.

[dr.chimps]

No, it doesn't apply to everyone. Nothing applies to everyone. But in general, if someone loses a love one they want to see justice. They want that person to pay with their life. Just look at this thread. The majority here want the murderer dead. And they don't even know the victim. And I surprised to read that even in pussified Europe, the majority of the population support the death penalty.

If you lost a daughter, at son, or any love one to a murderer, a day won't go by thinking that while your little girl is dead and buried her murderer is still walking around living and breathing.

Wow! Really? What does that say about us?

[Mr. Magoo]

Mangoo....I'll have to respond to you later..but it sounds like you're making an argument to back up existing laws and that people should just accept that its a criminals inalienable right to commit crimes, regardless of the victims rights?

The one paragraph from your nobel guy there gave me a good idea though....surprise executions, just walk to the cell and open fire on the intended subject while he sleeps. I like that.

I was actually only trying to show how the issue is complicated. I gave arguments in my long post against the deterrent argument, against the retribution argument, and against the claim that the system is fucked up because the sentenced criminal has too many rights (I showed how there are so many points of exit before a person is even sentenced where the accused can get off with a lighter sentence (or no sentence at all). I am going off of memory here but I think 33 states in the U.S. implement CP and out of the modern countries in the world, only the U.S. and Japan implement CP. There is a trend throughout history for countries to move away from the death penalty and U.S. is one of the last modern countries to do away with it.

Oh and it's NOT a criminals inalienable right to commit crimes. The victims has right not to be harmed unjustly and criminals should be punished. The tricky part is deciding what punishment and why.

[gh15]

No, it doesn't apply to everyone. Nothing applies to everyone. But in general, if someone loses a love one they want to see justice. They want that person to pay with their life. Just look at this thread. The majority here want the murderer dead. And they don't even know the victim. And I surprised to read that even in pussified Europe, the majority of the population support the death penalty.

If you lost a daughter, at son, or any love one to a murderer, a day won't go by thinking that while your little girl is dead and buried her murderer is still walking around living and breathing.

actuly MUCH better punishment is work camp in north korea or mother russia....it is much much bettre punishement since you dont take the life but insted you drain it out and make fella think of what they did and know the only way out is the next life when they face true justice,,

this is the best punishment,, life in prison with no possibility of parol or work camp etc WITH NO POSSIBILITY OF PAROL and that mean that even at 70 ....no going out,, this is your new life this is what you do this is how you will ened your life,, you will breath but will be isolated from society with fellas that did what you did ,,

the only time death is justified is when SOMEOEN SUCH AS SERIOUS SERIOUS WAR CRIMINAL LIKE HITLER OR LIKE USAMA DID CONTINUOUS DAMAGE TO A COUNTRY OR TO A PEOPLE ,, OR WHEN SOMEONE CAUSED THE DEATH OF POPULTION VIA BETRAYED IN HIS COUNTRY ,, THAT KIND OF SEVERE SERVEE VERY RARE CRIMES AGAINT HUMANITY

this was very bad,, yes but it wasnt crime against humanity as a all ,, people lost loved ones,, but casey antony took her baby girl and slaped her right and left putting tape on her mouth while giving her poisiton threw her in the woods to be eaten by the rats and what is she doing now? you got that right she is getting her 2 inch french manicure nails done and getting ready for big black joe to come by and knock the day light out of her pussy hole

you cant do death penalty when it is not applied equaly ,, and it is not!,, death penaty should be only executed in THE RAREST MOST UTMOST SEVERE CRIMES WHERE A NATION SUFFERED TREMENDESLY,,and the ones who shoudl decide on the death penalty should nto be jury ...it should be a panel of 3 to 6 judges with high expeience as in 20-30 year at the least in judsging the highest cases of a nation

YOU DONT TAKE LIFE THAT GOD GAVE ,, WHEN YOU DO IT YOU SPIT IN GODS FACE,, WHEN YOU SPIT IN JEHOVAS FACE YOU PAY FOR IT LATER ON ,, THIS IS GOD YOU TALKING ABOUT HERE NOT HIS SON JESUS ,, YOU NEVER EXECUTE GODS ACTIONS FOR GOD ,, GOD IS SOLEY RESONSIBLE FOR THAT..NOT JESUS HIS SON AND NOT THE HOLY SPIRIT,, IT IS GOD! WHO DECIDE WHEN YOU PASS ON! AND ONLY GOD!

gh15 approved

[dr.chimps]

Of course. It should only be reserved for those where their guilt is beyond a shadow of a doubt. I believe that O.J. is a murderer, I would not want the death penalty for him. With this murderer there is not a shadow of a doubt.

Me, too. As well as do most of the people of the world. Unfortunately, these sorts of 'errors' occur in the running of a judicial system.  

[pellius]

Wow! Really? What does that say about us?

What it says is that people want justice. They want the good rewarded and the bad punished. I consider that a good thing, a very good thing. If you allow the bad to suffer no or very little consequences for their actions what does that say about you?

I'm curious, you say the death penalty is no deterrent, prisons are just big business; tell me: what would you do to those who commit crimes (assuming to believe in laws) and murder people?

[NarcissisticDeity]

What it says is that people want justice. They want the good rewarded and the bad punished. I consider that a good thing, a very good thing. If you allow the bad to suffer no or very little consequences for their actions what does that say about you?

I'm curious, you say the death penalty is no deterrent, prisons are just big business; tell me: what would you do to those who commit crimes (assuming to believe in laws) and murder people?

The bad will NOT be punished if they accept the lord as their savior and truly mean it , the irony is the will in fact be rewarded into the kingdom of heaven.

[che]

What it says is that people want justice. They want the good rewarded and the bad punished. I consider that a good thing, a very good thing. If you allow the bad to suffer no or very little consequences for their actions what does that say about you?

I'm curious, you say the death penalty is no deterrent, prisons are just big business; tell me: what would you do to those who commit crimes (assuming to believe in laws) and murder people?

If you tremble indignation at every injustice then you are a comrade of mine .

[dr.chimps]

What it says is that people want justice. They want the good rewarded and the bad punished. I consider that a good thing, a very good thing. If you allow the bad to suffer no or very little consequences for their actions what does that say about you?

I'm curious, you say the death penalty is no deterrent, prisons are just big business; tell me: what would you do to those who commit crimes (assuming to believe in laws) and murder people?

Well, who doesn't? Straw-man stuff. Clumsy.

As to your second: prosecute them to the full extent of the law. Lock'em up. The fact that prisons and incarceration, and prison sentences have now become fully capitalized is now a sad, but moot point. The fact you want to exact some metaphysical morality aforethought on a website is commendable, but is, ultimately, an exercise in ego.    

[NarcissisticDeity]

If you tremble indignation at every injustice including the 1980 Mr Olympia then you are a comrade of mine .

bodybuilding related

[che]

bodybuilding related

I agree 

[pellius]

actuly MUCH better punishment is work camp in north korea or mother russia....it is much much bettre punishement since you dont take the life but insted you drain it out and make fella think of what they did and know the only way out is the next life when they face true justice,,

this is the best punishment,, life in prison with no possibility of parol or work camp etc WITH NO POSSIBILITY OF PAROL and that mean that even at 70 ....no going out,, this is your new life this is what you do this is how you will ened your life,, you will breath but will be isolated from society with fellas that did what you did ,,

the only time death is justified is when SOMEOEN SUCH AS SERIOUS SERIOUS WAR CRIMINAL LIKE HITLER OR LIKE USAMA DID CONTINUOUS DAMAGE TO A COUNTRY OR TO A PEOPLE ,, OR WHEN SOMEONE CAUSED THE DEATH OF POPULTION VIA BETRAYED IN HIS COUNTRY ,, THAT KIND OF SEVERE SERVEE VERY RARE CRIMES AGAINT HUMANITY

this was very bad,, yes but it wasnt crime against humanity as a all ,, people lost loved ones,, but casey antony took her baby girl and slaped her right and left putting tape on her mouth while giving her poisiton threw her in the woods to be eaten by the rats and what is she doing now? you got that right she is getting her 2 inch french manicure nails done and getting ready for big black joe to come by and knock the day light out of her pussy hole

you cant do death penalty when it is not applied equaly ,, and it is not!,, death penaty should be only executed in THE RAREST MOST UTMOST SEVERE CRIMES WHERE A NATION SUFFERED TREMENDESLY,,and the ones who shoudl decide on the death penalty should nto be jury ...it should be a panel of 3 to 6 judges with high expeience as in 20-30 year at the least in judsging the highest cases of a nation

YOU DONT TAKE LIFE THAT GOD GAVE ,, WHEN YOU DO IT YOU SPIT IN GODS FACE,, WHEN YOU SPIT IN JEHOVAS FACE YOU PAY FOR IT LATER ON ,, THIS IS GOD YOU TALKING ABOUT HERE NOT HIS SON JESUS ,, YOU NEVER EXECUTE GODS ACTIONS FOR GOD ,, GOD IS SOLEY RESONSIBLE FOR THAT..NOT JESUS HIS SON AND NOT THE HOLY SPIRIT,, IT IS GOD! WHO DECIDE WHEN YOU PASS ON! AND ONLY GOD!

gh15 approved

I would not be oppose to the work camp idea.

And if the death penalty is reserve only for the mass murderer, the war criminal, then this begs the question: How many people does someone have to kill before it merits the death penalty. What is the cut off number? Israel does not believe in the death penalty but made one, and only one, exception in it's history by executing Adolf Eichman. It's not sure how many he killed with his own hands but he is certainly responsible for the death camps in Poland and the 400,000+ Hungarians. So what is the magic number? Maybe five hundred? If you kill five hundred people you pay with your life but if you are the unfortunate first 499 victims it's still bad, but just not as bad.

No laws, absolutely no laws, are enforced equally. I read a study that if you drive a red Corvette you are several times more likely to get a speeding ticket than any other sports car and even Vettes of a different color. If you are poor you are more likely to get convicted of any crime. Any crime. Does that mean that because no laws are equally enforced we should get rid of all laws? Is it better to spare ALL the lives of murderers because we don't execute SOME of them. It's just like when people make the argument that there are disproportionately more Blacks in prison than Whites. Does that mean we should let some Black criminals go free to even up the score or try to convict more White criminals?
 
The death penalty is the only law mentioned and condoned in the first five books in the Bible, The Torah. The only law.

[pellius]

Well, who doesn't? Straw-man stuff. Clumsy.

As to your second: prosecute them to the full extent of the law. Lock'em up. The fact that prisons and incarceration, and prison sentences have now become fully capitalized is now a sad, but moot point. The fact you want to exact some metaphysical morality aforethought on a website is commendable, but is, ultimately, an exercise in ego.    

The want for justice is "Straw-man stuff. Clumsy."?

You still want criminals punished. Is that just an exercise in ego?

I really don't understand the point you are trying to make and would really like to understand as even though we disagree on a lot of issues I respect you and consider you a good person.

[dr.chimps]

The death penalty is the only law mentioned and condoned in the first five books in the Bible, The Torah. The only law.

You're probably better off if you don't cite the Bible for your case law, Counselor.      

[pellius]

You're probably better off if you don't cite the Bible for your case law, Counselor.      

I did because gh15 made reference to Biblical law.

[dr.chimps]

The want for justice is "Straw-man stuff. Clumsy."?

You still want criminals punished. Is that just an exercise in ego?

I really don't understand the point you are trying to make and would really like to understand as even though we disagree on a lot of issues I respect you and consider you a good person.

Nope. Just your posts. I totally know you're way more intelligent than the droppings you're leaving here, so I'm playing Devil's Advocate. Pay's not so good, but it can be fun of an occasion.  

Thanks for the sentiment, and back at you, but I'm just as corrupt as the rest of the rabble. Just trying, trying, to keep some kind of perspective.  

[dr.chimps]

I did because gh15 made reference to Biblical law.

I missed that. Sorry! However, I think my thoughts re: GH are well known.