Author Topic: Toughest people of the world - Mongolians  (Read 15981 times)

berblexer

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Toughest people of the world - Mongolians
« on: November 06, 2011, 02:32:04 PM »
The Mongolian Empire ruled half of the world for a while. Defeated and destroyed everything in their path.

Eventually they collapsed yes, but it was due to internal conflicts / civil war.

And what is most shocking is that mongolians were always small in number. Nowadays there are less than 10 million.

So just a few million ruled and conquered half the world.

They used to live in one of the most inhospitable places on earth, survived winters of -30 celsuis and summers of +40.

Could live months on only milk and blood from their horses.

Were expert riders and archers.

Really toughest people there were in my opinion.
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tommywishbone

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Re: Toughest people of the world - Mongolians
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2011, 02:33:01 PM »
All Kubla Khan.
a

basil

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Re: Toughest people of the world - Mongolians
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2011, 02:37:40 PM »
Must be that extra chromosome.

Hulkotron

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Re: Toughest people of the world - Mongolians
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2011, 02:38:39 PM »
All orange pork and cashew chicken.

apply85

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Re: Toughest people of the world - Mongolians
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2011, 02:39:38 PM »
what you think of today as mongolians are different people that were the mongolian tribe that took over what is now called mongolia then went west chasing the tatars, they most likely resembled what are now called tatars which is a mix of tatar and old school mongolian genes. The mongolia of today looks that way because when the mongols went west so did the chinese to fill the space the mongols left behind, that's why they look the way they look

ironneck

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Re: Toughest people of the world - Mongolians
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2011, 02:40:10 PM »
where are they now? they are very tough but uncivilized

apply85

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Re: Toughest people of the world - Mongolians
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2011, 02:41:09 PM »
my point is that most likely most "mongolians" really live in the central asia region in and around uzbekistan

devilsmile

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Re: Toughest people of the world - Mongolians
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2011, 02:41:54 PM »
.

They used to live in one of the most inhospitable places on earth, survived winters of -30 celsuis and summers of +40.

I'm living in that kind of place right now.

this was an ok movie



At their best, they still failed against russia and poland. Asians are too small to beat big white men  8)

greeneyes

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Re: Toughest people of the world - Mongolians
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2011, 02:43:13 PM »

apply85

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Re: Toughest people of the world - Mongolians
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2011, 02:49:40 PM »
I'm living in that kind of place right now.

this was an ok movie



At their best, they still failed against russia and poland. Asians are too small to beat big white men  8)

uuh failed, no, they did not take over the culture because really they had no motive to do this and neither did they have the channels of communication to be organized enouhg but what they did was demand tariffs from local "russian" lords (there was no russia back then) until they got a little bit lazy and eventually the guy who ruled moscow got together with his friends and pushed the mongols out (the mongols were actually called tatars, both tatars and mongols were called tatars because the tatars showed up first since they were running away west from the mongols who were genociding them for poisoning their khans father)

little history lesson for ya

devilsmile

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Re: Toughest people of the world - Mongolians
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2011, 02:56:03 PM »
uuh failed, no, they did not take over the culture because really they had no motive to do this and neither did they have the channels of communication to be organized enouhg but what they did was demand tariffs from local "russian" lords (there was no russia back then) until they got a little bit lazy and eventually the guy who ruled moscow got together with his friends and pushed the mongols out (the mongols were actually called tatars, both tatars and mongols were called tatars because the tatars showed up first since they were running away west from the mongols who were genociding them for poisoning their khans father)

little history lesson for ya

well I kind of knew it.. I know that the mongolian empire was historys biggest and greatest one kingdom ever witnessed, I wasn't even trying to be too serious. All glory and respect to the warrior spirit of the ancient mongolians  8)

apply85

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Re: Toughest people of the world - Mongolians
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2011, 03:12:14 PM »
well I kind of knew it.. I know that the mongolian empire was historys biggest and greatest one kingdom ever witnessed, I wasn't even trying to be too serious. All glory and respect to the warrior spirit of the ancient mongolians  8)

it was pretty big yeah, also it was just a strangely put together bunch of people. I mean temujin (genghis' name) went from son of tribal chief to homeless tribal chief and then he not so much concquered as seduced people to follow him. The guy just had power oozing out of him, and his love for people convinced them to do what he wanted them to, and until his death it was just his love and his vibe that kept it all together. He didn't inherit anything, he wasn't given anything, he was just the essence of power and his vibe was so strong, hard to believe a person like this existed

devilsmile

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Re: Toughest people of the world - Mongolians
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2011, 03:15:29 PM »
it was pretty big yeah, also it was just a strangely put together bunch of people. I mean temujin (genghis' name) went from son of tribal chief to homeless tribal chief and then he not so much concquered as seduced people to follow him. The guy just had power oozing out of him, and his love for people convinced them to do what he wanted them to, and until his death it was just his love and his vibe that kept it all together. He didn't inherit anything, he wasn't given anything, he was just the essence of power and his vibe was so strong, hard to believe a person like this existed

truly...

he connected people with his spirit. The loyalty which he received was pure and one of a kind.

Tapeworm

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Re: Toughest people of the world - Mongolians
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2011, 04:03:55 PM »
Spirit-schmirit.  He knocked over the right people early on and formed alliances with opportunists, same as any other warlord.  Had himself a winning general too, which never hurts.  I think Subotai was only defeated once while laying siege somewhere in China.

The empire was geographically big but because much of it was so inhospitable, its population was sparse, mostly nomadic, and ununified.  Not exactly the stiffest resistance.  Areas of urban development, like in China, slowed down expansion and took a lot more effort to topple.

Their military machine was efficient enough to make it all the way to Vienna, but their bureaucracy and succession planning was hopeless.  The army withdrew from Vienna on the eve of attack and marched thousands of miles back because Temujin Ogedei died and no one knew who was in charge or what was going on next.  Basically, Temujin Temujin and kid established authority over a lot of thinly populated land through military conquest and diplomacy, then the whole thing fractured and disappeared in a puff of smoke along with them.
It was an 'empire' like Alexander's was an empire - shortlived, built on conquest only, and relegated to infighting as soon as Big Chief died.  It had none of the continuity, political development, contemporary cultural influence, or historical significance that you'd get with something like the Roman Republic/Empire.

devilsmile

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Re: Toughest people of the world - Mongolians
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2011, 04:09:28 PM »
Spirit-schmirit.  He knocked over the right people early on and formed alliances with opportunists, same as any other warlord.  Had himself a winning general too, which never hurts.  I think Subotai was only defeated once while laying siege somewhere in China.

The empire was geographically big but because much of it was so inhospitable, its population was sparse, mostly nomadic, and ununified.  Not exactly the stiffest resistance.  Areas of urban development, like in China, slowed down expansion and took a lot more effort to topple.

Their military machine was efficient enough to make it all the way to Vienna, but their bureaucracy and succession planning was hopeless.  The army withdrew from Vienna on the eve of attack and marched thousands of miles back because Temujin Ogedei died and no one knew who was in charge or what was going on next.  Basically, Temujin Temujin and kid established authority over a lot of thinly populated land through military conquest and diplomacy, then the whole thing fractured and disappeared in a puff of smoke along with them.
It was an 'empire' like Alexander's was an empire - shortlived, built on conquest only, and relegated to infighting as soon as Big Chief died.  It had none of the continuity, political development, contemporary cultural influence, or historical significance that you'd get with something like the Roman Republic/Empire.

I rest my case

Tapeworm

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Re: Toughest people of the world - Mongolians
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2011, 04:17:15 PM »
I rest my case

Temujin was a warlord with a savvy general, meek resistance, and an inability to cement his legacy.  Hardly on of history's great spirits.

G_Thang

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Re: Toughest people of the world - Mongolians
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2011, 04:17:53 PM »

Really toughest people there were in my opinion.

could have fooled me since i thought it was pickeys


apply85

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Re: Toughest people of the world - Mongolians
« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2011, 04:20:40 PM »
Spirit-schmirit.  He knocked over the right people early on and formed alliances with opportunists, same as any other warlord.  Had himself a winning general too, which never hurts.  I think Subotai was only defeated once while laying siege somewhere in China.

The empire was geographically big but because much of it was so inhospitable, its population was sparse, mostly nomadic, and ununified.  Not exactly the stiffest resistance.  Areas of urban development, like in China, slowed down expansion and took a lot more effort to topple.

Their military machine was efficient enough to make it all the way to Vienna, but their bureaucracy and succession planning was hopeless.  The army withdrew from Vienna on the eve of attack and marched thousands of miles back because Temujin Ogedei died and no one knew who was in charge or what was going on next.  Basically, Temujin Temujin and kid established authority over a lot of thinly populated land through military conquest and diplomacy, then the whole thing fractured and disappeared in a puff of smoke along with them.
It was an 'empire' like Alexander's was an empire - shortlived, built on conquest only, and relegated to infighting as soon as Big Chief died.  It had none of the continuity, political development, contemporary cultural influence, or historical significance that you'd get with something like the Roman Republic/Empire.

you don't really understand the motivation of the mongols, they did not give a shit about spreading the mongol culture, they did not want the hearts and minds of other people's so to speak, and it isn't that temujin conquered so much, it is that he convinced others to conquer on his behalf. What he wanted to do was take revenge on the tatars, and so he conquered on his way to eliminating them, then he wanted to take his revenge on the chinese who offended him so he conquered on his way to there, he was not an expansionist emperor, he expanded his empire by coincidence on the way to achieving his personal agendas

wes

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Re: Toughest people of the world - Mongolians
« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2011, 04:22:25 PM »
All hail Taras Bulba !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

devilsmile

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Re: Toughest people of the world - Mongolians
« Reply #19 on: November 06, 2011, 04:24:04 PM »
you don't really understand the motivation of the mongols, they did not give a shit about spreading the mongol culture, they did not want the hearts and minds of other people's so to speak, and it isn't that temujin conquered so much, it is that he convinced others to conquer on his behalf. What he wanted to do was take revenge on the tatars, and so he conquered on his way to eliminating them, then he wanted to take his revenge on the chinese who offended him so he conquered on his way to there, he was not an expansionist emperor, he expanded his empire by coincidence on the way to achieving his personal agendas

you said it best...

Have you guys seen the animation serie Ginga Nagareboshi Gin, where a dog gathers every wild dog pack in japan together to fight against giant bears? Well in this case temudging was a similar character except he was real.

apply85

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Re: Toughest people of the world - Mongolians
« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2011, 04:27:51 PM »
I was too hyped about the movie, obviously the real side of the story is what you just said... with a bad breath and terrible hyegine.

inability to cement his legacy, hmm yeah he really had no children of note lol, and he didn't change the racial make up of that part of the earth, he didn't topple european kingdoms at his whim, you know uzbekistan was named after his great great great grandson right

and there's a trailer for a movie which is the first of a trilogy about his life, hmm yeah no legacy lol

Tapeworm

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Re: Toughest people of the world - Mongolians
« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2011, 04:33:54 PM »
you don't really understand the motivation of the mongols, they did not give a shit about spreading the mongol culture, they did not want the hearts and minds of other people's so to speak, and it isn't that temujin conquered so much, it is that he convinced others to conquer on his behalf. What he wanted to do was take revenge on the tatars, and so he conquered on his way to eliminating them, then he wanted to take his revenge on the chinese who offended him so he conquered on his way to there, he was not an expansionist emperor, he expanded his empire by coincidence on the way to achieving his personal agendas


Ok, that could be, but expanding empires seem to be a bit like sharks after awhile.  If they don't keep moving and eating, they're done for.  I reckon a lot of warlords recognize that their economy is dependent on continual conquest.

devilsmile

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Re: Toughest people of the world - Mongolians
« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2011, 04:36:40 PM »
tapeworm delete the post where you quoted me :P, i deleted the post  ;D

Tapeworm

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Re: Toughest people of the world - Mongolians
« Reply #23 on: November 06, 2011, 04:37:26 PM »
inability to cement his legacy, hmm yeah he really had no children of note lol, and he didn't change the racial make up of that part of the earth, he didn't topple european kingdoms at his whim, you know uzbekistan was named after his great great great grandson right

and there's a trailer for a movie which is the first of a trilogy about his life, hmm yeah no legacy lol

I thought the whole thing devolved into civil war within a generation or two.  That's not exactly a sign of good planning.  You seem like quite a fanboy.  You wouldn't seriously put the Mongols on par with Rome?! OMG!  Say it ain't so!  :o

Tapeworm

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Re: Toughest people of the world - Mongolians
« Reply #24 on: November 06, 2011, 04:38:14 PM »
tapeworm delete the post where you quoted me :P, i deleted the post  ;D

That's the other guy.  8)