Author Topic: Documents: ATF used "Fast and Furious" to make the case for gun regulations  (Read 3428 times)

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Documents: ATF used "Fast and Furious" to make the case for gun regulations
CBS ^ | December 7, 2011 1:44 PM | Sharyl Attkisson


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-57338546-10391695/documents-atf-used-fast-and-furious-to-make-the-case-for-gun-regulations




Documents obtained by CBS News show that the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) discussed using their covert operation "Fast and Furious" to argue for controversial new rules about gun sales. PICTURES: ATF "Gunwalking" scandal timeline

In Fast and Furious, ATF secretly encouraged gun dealers to sell to suspected traffickers for Mexican drug cartels to go after the "big fish." But ATF whistleblowers told CBS News and Congress it was a dangerous practice called "gunwalking," and it put thousands of weapons on the street. Many were used in violent crimes in Mexico. Two were found at the murder scene of a U.S. Border Patrol agent.

ATF officials didn't intend to publicly disclose their own role in letting Mexican cartels obtain the weapons, but emails show they discussed using the sales, including sales encouraged by ATF, to justify a new gun regulation called "Demand Letter 3". That would require some U.S. gun shops to report the sale of multiple rifles or "long guns." Demand Letter 3 was so named because it would be the third ATF program demanding gun dealers report tracing information.

On July 14, 2010 after ATF headquarters in Washington D.C. received an update on Fast and Furious, ATF Field Ops Assistant Director Mark Chait emailed Bill Newell, ATF's Phoenix Special Agent in Charge of Fast and Furious:

"Bill - can you see if these guns were all purchased from the same (licensed gun dealer) and at one time. We are looking at anecdotal cases to support a demand letter on long gun multiple sales. Thanks."

On Jan. 4, 2011, as ATF prepared a press conference to announce arrests in Fast and Furious, Newell saw it as "(A)nother time to address Multiple Sale on Long Guns issue." And a day after the press conference, Chait emailed Newell: "Bill--well done yesterday... (I)n light of our request for Demand letter 3, this case could be a strong supporting factor if we can determine how many multiple sales of long guns occurred during the course of this case."

This revelation angers gun rights advocates. Larry Keane, a spokesman for National Shooting Sports Foundation, a gun industry trade group, calls the discussion of Fast and Furious to argue for Demand Letter 3 "disappointing and ironic." Keane says it's "deeply troubling" if sales made by gun dealers "voluntarily cooperating with ATF's flawed 'Operation Fast & Furious' were going to be used by some individuals within ATF to justify imposing a multiple sales reporting requirement for rifles."

The Gun Dealers' Quandary

Several gun dealers who cooperated with ATF told CBS News and Congressional investigators they only went through with suspicious sales because ATF asked them to.

Sometimes it was against the gun dealer's own best judgment.

Read the email

In April, 2010 a licensed gun dealer cooperating with ATF was increasingly concerned about selling so many guns. "We just want to make sure we are cooperating with ATF and that we are not viewed as selling to the bad guys," writes the gun dealer to ATF Phoenix officials, "(W)e were hoping to put together something like a letter of understanding to alleviate concerns of some type of recourse against us down the road for selling these items."

Read the email

ATF's group supervisor on Fast and Furious David Voth assures the gun dealer there's nothing to worry about. "We (ATF) are continually monitoring these suspects using a variety of investigative techniques which I cannot go into detail."

Two months later, the same gun dealer grew more agitated.

"I wanted to make sure that none of the firearms that were sold per our conversation with you and various ATF agents could or would ever end up south of the border or in the hands of the bad guys. I guess I am looking for a bit of reassurance that the guns are not getting south or in the wrong hands...I want to help ATF with its investigation but not at the risk of agents (sic) safety because I have some very close friends that are US Border Patrol agents in southern AZ as well as my concern for all the agents (sic) safety that protect our country."

"It's like ATF created or added to the problem so they could be the solution to it and pat themselves on the back," says one law enforcement source familiar with the facts. "It's a circular way of thinking."

The Justice Department and ATF declined to comment. ATF officials mentioned in this report did not respond to requests from CBS News to speak with them.

The "Demand Letter 3" Debate

The two sides in the gun debate have long clashed over whether gun dealers should have to report multiple rifle sales. On one side, ATF officials argue that a large number of semi-automatic, high-caliber rifles from the U.S. are being used by violent cartels in Mexico. They believe more reporting requirements would help ATF crack down. On the other side, gun rights advocates say that's unconstitutional, and would not make a difference in Mexican cartel crimes.

Two earlier Demand Letters were initiated in 2000 and affected a relatively small number of gun shops. Demand Letter 3 was to be much more sweeping, affecting 8,500 firearms dealers in four southwest border states: Arizona, California, New Mexico and Texas. ATF chose those states because they "have a significant number of crime guns traced back to them from Mexico." The reporting requirements were to apply if a gun dealer sells two or more long guns to a single person within five business days, and only if the guns are semi-automatic, greater than .22 caliber and can be fitted with a detachable magazine.

On April 25, 2011, ATF announced plans to implement Demand Letter 3. The National Shooting Sports Foundation is suing the ATF to stop the new rules. It calls the regulation an illegal attempt to enforce a law Congress never passed. ATF counters that it has reasonably targeted guns used most often to "commit violent crimes in Mexico, especially by drug gangs."

Reaction

Sen. Charles Grassley (R-Iowa) is investigating Fast and Furious, as well as the alleged use of the case to advance gun regulations. "There's plenty of evidence showing that this administration planned to use the tragedies of Fast and Furious as rationale to further their goals of a long gun reporting requirement. But, we've learned from our investigation that reporting multiple long gun sales would do nothing to stop the flow of firearms to known straw purchasers because many Federal Firearms Dealers are already voluntarily reporting suspicious transactions. It's pretty clear that the problem isn't lack of burdensome reporting requirements."

On July 12, 2011, Sen. Grassley and Rep. Darrell Issa (R-CA) wrote Attorney General Eric Holder, whose Justice Department oversees ATF. They asked Holder whether officials in his agency discussed how "Fast and Furious could be used to justify additional regulatory authorities." So far, they have not received a response. CBS News asked the Justice Department for comment and context on ATF emails about Fast and Furious and Demand Letter 3, but officials declined to speak with us.

"In light of the evidence, the Justice Department's refusal to answer questions about the role Operation Fast and Furious was supposed to play in advancing new firearms regulations is simply unacceptable," Rep. Issa told CBS News.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------











Obama / Holder  = traitors.

Soul Crusher

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Sarah Palin: “Smoking Gun” in Fast & Furious?
Sarah Palin Facebook ^ | Wednesday December 7, 2011 | Sarah Palin




For anyone following the Obama administration's scandalous cluster-of-an-operation Fast & Furious, which resulted in the deaths of innocent people, please see the article excerpted below. (And in my humble opinion, I do believe the anti-2nd Amendment characters working in the Obama administration purposefully used their Fast & Furious gun walking operation to propose more gun control regulations.)   

Scour this ARTICLE and let me know if you too think this might be a “smoking gun” in the Fast & Furious case:

ATF officials didn't intend to publicly disclose their own role in letting Mexican cartels obtain the weapons, but emails show they discussed using the sales, including sales encouraged by ATF, to justify a new gun regulation called "Demand Letter 3". That would require some U.S. gun shops to report the sale of multiple rifles or "long guns." Demand Letter 3 was so named because it would be the third ATF program demanding gun dealers report tracing information.

  On July 14, 2010 after ATF headquarters in Washington D.C. received an update on Fast and Furious, ATF Field Ops Assistant Director Mark Chait emailed Bill Newell, ATF's Phoenix Special Agent in Charge of Fast and Furious:

  "Bill - can you see if these guns were all purchased from the same (licensed gun dealer) and at one time. We are looking at anecdotal cases to support a demand letter on long gun multiple sales. Thanks."   

On Jan. 4, 2011, as ATF prepared a press conference to announce arrests in Fast and Furious, Newell saw it as "(A)nother time to address Multiple Sale on Long Guns issue." And a day after the press conference, Chait emailed Newell: "Bill--well done yesterday... (I)n light of our request for Demand letter 3, this case could be a strong supporting factor if we can determine how many multiple sales of long guns occurred during the course of this case."   

This revelation angers gun rights advocates. Larry Keane, a spokesman for National Shooting Sports Foundation, a gun industry trade group, calls the discussion of Fast and Furious to argue for Demand Letter 3 "disappointing and ironic." Keane says it's "deeply troubling" if sales made by gun dealers "voluntarily cooperating with ATF's flawed 'Operation Fast & Furious' were going to be used by some individuals within ATF to justify imposing a multiple sales reporting requirement for rifles."   

The Gun Dealers' Quandary   

Several gun dealers who cooperated with ATF told CBS News and Congressional investigators they only went through with suspicious sales because ATF asked them to.   

Sometimes it was against the gun dealer's own best judgment.













KKKKAAAABBBBBOOOOOOMMMMM!!!!!!!    Now we have the fucking truth about this evil communist junta.   F&F is going to send obama/holder - et al to prison.   

240 is Back

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oh look, palin chimed in.

she used to be on the cutting edge of criticizing obama.  now she waits til things are old news and it's "safe" to trash him.

i guess we have to wait another month before 'kingmaker' chooses Newt to be the nominee.   after all, he embodies the washington outsider, small govt ideals that she loves.

seriously, palin?  seriously?

Hugo Chavez

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333, Looks like we both called that part right.  I suspected this shit and thought I remembered you saying something too.  fucking disgusting.

Soul Crusher

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On July 14, 2010 after ATF headquarters in Washington D.C. received an update on Fast and Furious, ATF Field Ops Assistant Director Mark Chait emailed Bill Newell, ATF's Phoenix Special Agent in Charge of Fast and Furious:

"Bill - can you see if these guns were all purchased from the same (licensed gun dealer) and at one time. We are looking at anecdotal cases to support a demand letter on long gun multiple sales. Thanks."

On Jan. 4, 2011, as ATF prepared a press conference to announce arrests in Fast and Furious, Newell saw it as "(A)nother time to address Multiple Sale on Long Guns issue." And a day after the press conference, Chait emailed Newell: "Bill--well done yesterday... (I)n light of our request for Demand letter 3, this case could be a strong supporting factor if we can determine how many multiple sales of long guns occurred during the course of this case."







Case closed.   And what happened to Agent Newell?  He was promoted! 

240 is Back

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as 240 predicted.  everyone gets raises and promotions, everything gets sealed.  you know this, mannnnnnnnnnnn.

Soul Crusher

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http://articles.nydailynews.com/2009-03-26/news/1791781...

WASHINGTON - Secretary of State Clinton called for a new assault weapon ban in the U.S. on Thursday in hopes of cutting off arms flowing to Mexican drug gangs

The ATF is funelling arms to Mexico through a boneheaded operation called "Fast & Furious." Border Patrol agent gets killed by walked ATF guns by a "rip team" where the FBI and DEA have a CI who is a double agent. Who do all these clowns work for? An Attorney General who claims to know less than this guy?


But is certain all the cartels would be peacefully negotiating their differences if only the US renewed the expired Assault Weapons Ban?

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=6960824&page=1

Holder said that putting the ban back in place would not only be a positive move by the United States, it would help cut down on the flow of guns going across the border into Mexico, which is struggling with heavy violence among drug cartels along the border.

The Justice Department and the State Department are responsible for funneling the most dangerous military grade hardware to the cartels, but you hold them blameless? Damn those lying wikileaks State Department memos...

Three South Korean K400 grenades were recovered in an abandoned armored car believed to have been used by traffickers as a getaway vehicle. The cable requests that U.S. Embassy officials in Seoul, “discreetly query the Korean government regarding the whereabouts, disposition, and the possibility of any missing stocks,” of South Korean-made grenades. Another Korean-made K75 grenade was thrown into a nightclub in Pharr, Texas on the U.S. side of the border, where the targets were three off-duty police officers. The grenade did not detonate.


tonymctones

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heads ought to roll for this bs

lol at 240 trying to deflect

240 is Back

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lol at 240 trying to deflect


i said earlier today that obama belongs in a jail cell for this bullshit.

outside of that, palin is a complete idiot, everyone involved in a conspiracy gets rich/promoted, and bad guys always get away with everything. 

that's not deflection, that's the truth boss.

tonymctones

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i said earlier today that obama belongs in a jail cell for this bullshit.

outside of that, palin is a complete idiot, everyone involved in a conspiracy gets rich/promoted, and bad guys always get away with everything. 

that's not deflection, that's the truth boss.
LOL you did what you always do make one comment to try to gain credibility and then 100 contradicting the 1.

nobody buys your idiocy not even hugo

the truth is palins words were spot on, and you deflected them by insulting her...

thats the truth boss ;)

headhuntersix

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Re: Documents: ATF used "Fast and Furious" to make the case for gun regulations
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2011, 05:46:50 PM »
There's a huge gun show in Louisville this weekend. I think I'll pick up something. Everytime Barry pisses me off...my gun collection grows. He's been good for something..now even my wife shoots.
L

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Re: Documents: ATF used "Fast and Furious" to make the case for gun regulations
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2011, 05:47:47 PM »

i said earlier today that obama belongs in a jail cell for this bullshit.

outside of that, palin is a complete idiot, everyone involved in a conspiracy gets rich/promoted, and bad guys always get away with everything. 

that's not deflection, that's the truth boss.

Psst: this thread isn't about Palin. Try to keep up.



This was called from day one. I'm SHOCKED that these scumbags would try to do this. Saddest part is people like 240 who seem to be relishing in the fact that Holder and co. haven't been forced to atone for this yet.

LOL GUYS, MURDERING BORDER AGENTS IS COOL!

240 is Back

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Re: Documents: ATF used "Fast and Furious" to make the case for gun regulations
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2011, 06:14:36 PM »
i said the sitting us prez belongs in a jail cell.

is that really kneepadding?  lmao

240 is Back

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Re: Documents: ATF used "Fast and Furious" to make the case for gun regulations
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2011, 06:15:44 PM »
I'm not 'relishing' the fact, tony.

i'm saddened by it, but i was screaming louder than anyone when bush was doing it.  and i said 'yall wont think it's so funny when president hilary does it!"

granted, obama won the election, but you get the idea.  repubs who mocked crybaby libs are now doing the yelling.

Obama's just using his bush power to cheat and get away with it.  yall didn't want to take away the sealing & redacting powers until 2009, weird.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Documents: ATF used "Fast and Furious" to make the case for gun regulations
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2011, 06:18:30 PM »
I'm not 'relishing' the fact, tony.

i'm saddened by it, but i was screaming louder than anyone when bush was doing it.  and i said 'yall wont think it's so funny when president hilary does it!"

granted, obama won the election, but you get the idea.  repubs who mocked crybaby libs are now doing the yelling.

Obama's just using his bush power to cheat and get away with it.  yall didn't want to take away the sealing & redacting powers until 2009, weird.


Bush doing this ?

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Documents: ATF used "Fast and Furious" to make the case for gun regulations
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2011, 06:19:27 PM »
LOL you did what you always do make one comment to try to gain credibility and then 100 contradicting the 1.

nobody buys your idiocy not even hugo

the truth is palins words were spot on, and you deflected them by insulting her...

thats the truth boss ;)
I don't have any problems with what 240 posts.  I disagree with him on some issues and he knows that.  He seems like he's gone a little too anti 2nd for my taste but I'm not going to join forces against him over it lol.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Documents: ATF used "Fast and Furious" to make the case for gun regulations
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2011, 06:24:30 PM »
New e-mails: ATF officials discussed using Fast & Furious to … push gun control
POSTED AT 4:15 PM ON DECEMBER 7, 2011 BY ALLAHPUNDIT

   
The logical extension of Rahm’s famous remark about never letting a serious crisis go to waste. If a grave problem is an opportunity to push your agenda, imagine how much farther you can push it by making the problem graver.

Another F&F bombshell from CBS’s Sharyl Attkisson:

ATF officials didn’t intend to publicly disclose their own role in letting Mexican cartels obtain the weapons, but emails show they discussed using the sales, including sales encouraged by ATF, to justify a new gun regulation called “Demand Letter 3″. That would require some U.S. gun shops to report the sale of multiple rifles or “long guns.” Demand Letter 3 was so named because it would be the third ATF program demanding gun dealers report tracing information.

On July 14, 2010 after ATF headquarters in Washington D.C. received an update on Fast and Furious, ATF Field Ops Assistant Director Mark Chait emailed Bill Newell, ATF’s Phoenix Special Agent in Charge of Fast and Furious:

“Bill – can you see if these guns were all purchased from the same (licensed gun dealer) and at one time. We are looking at anecdotal cases to support a demand letter on long gun multiple sales. Thanks.”

On Jan. 4, 2011, as ATF prepared a press conference to announce arrests in Fast and Furious, Newell saw it as “(A)nother time to address Multiple Sale on Long Guns issue.” And a day after the press conference, Chait emailed Newell: “Bill–well done yesterday… (I)n light of our request for Demand letter 3, this case could be a strong supporting factor if we can determine how many multiple sales of long guns occurred during the course of this case.”

Follow the link and read the e-mails from a participating gun dealer to the ATF asking for a letter affirming that he was only selling these weapons at the agency’s behest. He was worried that the sales were shady and wanted legal cover in case the bureau later turned around and decided that the dealers were “irresponsible” or whatever in making the sales — which was awfully prescient given the ATF’s subsequent political opportunism. But then, none of this is surprising: Congressional Democrats and even Eric Holder himself have already used F&F as a pretext to call for more gun control. I thought the sleaziest bit of White House scandal spin we’d see this year was the Energy Department asking Solyndra to hold off on layoffs until after election day in 2010. Nope: Per the new F&F e-mails, they’re actually using their own scandals now as a pretext for greater regulation. Says Dan McLaughlin, “Obama Administration once again lives down to every paranoid caricature of itself.”

Darrell Issa said today he’s going to press Holder at tomorrow’s hearing to “clean house” at the DOJ. Chuck Grassley, for one, knows just where to start.


   

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Re: Documents: ATF used "Fast and Furious" to make the case for gun regulations
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2011, 06:35:37 PM »

Bush doing this ?

yes.  Bush's white house redacted half the 911 investigation.  they got to testify together without recordings or notes.

wait til obama redacts or seals the F&F case.  Wait til obama and holder will only testify - to a handpicked 10 members of a 'commission'.
Wait til the commission sees how guilty obama is.  One of them QUITS.  Others call it a "whitewash".

The 2 people obama chooses to LEAD the investigation announce we need another one.  Obama limits its spending, and any info for this commission must come thru the white house FIRST>


Tony, that is what happened with the 911 commission.  and it's why bitch ass libs like me were crying about it for 5 years.  But we said "Wait til the next dem prez pulls this bullshit, see how much you like it then".  And here we are.  CodeStink proven correct, but america losing once again.

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Re: Documents: ATF used "Fast and Furious" to make the case for gun regulations
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2011, 06:50:32 PM »
Fuck. My disdain for these scumbags grows everyday.


Soul Crusher

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Re: Documents: ATF used "Fast and Furious" to make the case for gun regulations
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2011, 06:52:46 PM »
Fuck. My disdain for these scumbags grows everyday.




Wait till we learn about the details of holders money laundering scheme. 

tonymctones

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Re: Documents: ATF used "Fast and Furious" to make the case for gun regulations
« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2011, 06:54:12 PM »
yes.  Bush's white house redacted half the 911 investigation.  they got to testify together without recordings or notes.

wait til obama redacts or seals the F&F case.  Wait til obama and holder will only testify - to a handpicked 10 members of a 'commission'.
Wait til the commission sees how guilty obama is.  One of them QUITS.  Others call it a "whitewash".

The 2 people obama chooses to LEAD the investigation announce we need another one.  Obama limits its spending, and any info for this commission must come thru the white house FIRST>


Tony, that is what happened with the 911 commission.  and it's why bitch ass libs like me were crying about it for 5 years.  But we said "Wait til the next dem prez pulls this bullshit, see how much you like it then".  And here we are.  CodeStink proven correct, but america losing once again.
there is a difference you have no evidence other than speculation that bush was involved in 9/11

that isnt the case here and even if it was it doesnt excuse your deflecting.

Soul Crusher

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Re: Documents: ATF used "Fast and Furious" to make the case for gun regulations
« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2011, 06:55:52 PM »
there is a difference you have no evidence other than speculation that bush was involved in 9/11

that isnt the case here and even if it was it doesnt excuse your deflecting.

In Fast n Furious we have many whistleblowers and a chain of direct evidence and witnesses.   The 911 CTs have conjecture and speculation. 

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Re: Documents: ATF used "Fast and Furious" to make the case for gun regulations
« Reply #22 on: December 07, 2011, 06:58:33 PM »
Psst: this thread isn't about Palin. Try to keep up.



This was called from day one. I'm SHOCKED that these scumbags would try to do this. Saddest part is people like 240 who seem to be relishing in the fact that Holder and co. haven't been forced to atone for this yet.

LOL GUYS, MURDERING BORDER AGENTS IS COOL!

You ain't lying... All to "show" that guns are dangerous... Fuck these assclowns.


Hugo Chavez

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Re: Documents: ATF used "Fast and Furious" to make the case for gun regulations
« Reply #23 on: December 07, 2011, 07:00:08 PM »
The 911 CTs have conjecture and speculation. 
because 98% of the evidence was destroyed and or held from the public for absolutely no fucking reason lol.

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Re: Documents: ATF used "Fast and Furious" to make the case for gun regulations
« Reply #24 on: December 07, 2011, 07:04:25 PM »
because 98% of the evidence was destroyed and or held from the public for absolutely no fucking reason lol.

surely if someone had evidence that they thought would be helpful in uncovering an internal plot for 911 they would have come forward no?