Offseason, Testosterone and other anabolic drugs - explained

[Omega]

i agree that some pros are using ridiculous dosages, and in the past i've heard the same rumors and myths about 20grams of gear or more a week. however, i don't think making assumptions based off hearsay and rumors of their dosages, you could accurately extrapolate that pros are all using high dosages of test and then from that coming to the conclusion that test is necessary to reach pro level size.

pros are using every single drug imaginable, not because it works but on the offchance that they may be missing out on a 0.1 pound increase in lean body mass, so they throw the entire kitchen sink of pharmaceuticals at their body in the hopes that one of those drugs will work. there's no way to extrapolate a single steroid's efficacy from this and then use pros as an example for what works because there are too many variables, not to mention no one knows the exact dosages the pros are running since i'm sure there's great variance in their steroid usage and preference (case in point, there is someone here who will turn pro, or should turn pro and uses under 2 grams a week).

secondly, neither scientific studies nor real life experience support this idea that using massive testosterone dosages is the key to creating a pro sized person, in terms of dry contest ready muscle mass. as everyone in this thread has already eluded to in a round about way, test starts to get diminishing returns around 750mg and barely produces increases in actual muscle fiber density after that point except when using GH and insulin - because it's actually the GH and insulin that is the key to getting pro-level size.

the type of steroid someone uses is entirely irrelevant for the purposes of protein accretion, once you hit a certain milligram a week dosage of hormones you will be saturating every growth pathway possible as well as stymieing catabolic effects in the body, so from the standpoint of anabolism it is entirely irrelevant if someone uses testosterone or not. it is the GH, and insulin that create pro sized physiques, to a lesser extent SEO but that's different subject. hell, gh15 has been saying it's all GH for months now, i don't know how much more it needs to get repeated because it's entirely true.  

plus, there are some people who simply respond poorly to test and can't make good gains off of it. i believe someone who already posted in this thread, flintstones i think it was or maybe lyquid, said their gains on test weren't that great and they added a lot more muscle using deca instead.

This is spot on

[no one]

you dont think that was a good post, Wes?

and no I'm not asthetics

not going to speak for wes- but im going to hazzard a guess why wes busts aesthetics balls, and its prolly the same reason i do.

wes and i have both been a round a long time, and after a while you can just tell whos full of shit and who isnt. you can tell someone who has walked the walk, and someone that just talks.

aesthetics is that guy- what he writes doesnt come from personal experience, its what he reads off other boards. take BFG for example- when he posts its like hes telling you either what he has done first hand, or has seen first hand- you can just tell hes been there, or seen it done. when aesthetics posts he sounds like hes just repeating what hes reads online. if i had to put money on it, hes a kid, prolly in his early to mid 20's with shitty genetics who isnt anywhere close to having the type of physique he wants you to believe he has from his posts.

'aesthetics' is GB's new fat panda/ pumpster.

[aesthetics]

not going to speak for wes- but im going to hazzard a guess why wes busts aesthetics balls, and its prolly the same reason i do.

wes and i have both been a round a long time, and after a while you can just tell whos full of shit and who isnt. you can tell someone who has walked the walk, and someone that just talks.

aesthetics is that guy- what he writes doesnt come from personal experience, its what he reads off other boards. take BFG for example- when he posts its like hes telling you either what he has done first hand, or has seen first hand- you can just tell hes been there, or seen it done. when aesthetics posts he sounds like hes just repeating what hes reads online. if i had to put money on it, hes a kid, prolly in his early to mid 20's with shitty genetics who isnt anywhere close to having the type of physique he wants you to believe he has from his posts.

'aesthetics' is GB's new fat panda/ pumpster.

haha, so you're telling me bfg uses 10 grams of gear a week and 4 grams of test? nothing he has ever written comes from his own experience, let alone there are absolutely 0 scientific studies to support most of his conclusions, in fact the opposite is true and most of the garbage he spews is dispoven by studies that have been done on androgens and their modes of action. that really begs the question where he even get's these idiotic ideas from if he's never tried it himself, nor is there any science backing up his theories.

[Wiggs]

haha, so you're telling me bfg uses 10 grams of gear a week and 4 grams of test? nothing he has ever written comes from his own experience, let alone there are absolutely 0 scientific studies to support most of his conclusions, in fact the opposite is true and most of the garbage he spews is dispoven by studies that have been done on androgens and their modes of action. that really begs the question where he even get's these idiotic ideas from if he's never tried it himself, nor is there any science backing up his theories.

Who are you where did you come from?
BFG's word is golden believe it or don't but dont come here talking shit about him.

[wes]

not going to speak for wes- but im going to hazzard a guess why wes busts aesthetics balls, and its prolly the same reason i do.

wes and i have both been a round a long time, and after a while you can just tell whos full of shit and who isnt. you can tell someone who has walked the walk, and someone that just talks.

aesthetics is that guy- what he writes doesnt come from personal experience, its what he reads off other boards. take BFG for example- when he posts its like hes telling you either what he has done first hand, or has seen first hand- you can just tell hes been there, or seen it done. when aesthetics posts he sounds like hes just repeating what hes reads online. if i had to put money on it, hes a kid, prolly in his early to mid 20's with shitty genetics who isnt anywhere close to having the type of physique he wants you to believe he has from his posts.

'aesthetics' is GB's new fat panda/ pumpster.

BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Another spot on post by my man no one!! 

[aesthetics]

maybe its golden in color because its a stream of piss he dribbles over the forums

[nosleep]

AESTHETICS DOES REPEAT STUFF FROM OTHER BOARDS, BUT BFG COMES OUT OF NOWHERE TOO.

[Wiggs]

AESTHETICS DOES REPEAT STUFF FROM OTHER BOARDS, BUT BFG COMES OUT OF NOWHERE TOO.

Yes BFG did, and everything he said has been accurate.

[ChevChelios]

You are all full of shit. 
 

gh15 approved

[farrellzach]

haha, so you're telling me bfg uses 10 grams of gear a week and 4 grams of test? nothing he has ever written comes from his own experience, let alone there are absolutely 0 scientific studies to support most of his conclusions, in fact the opposite is true and most of the garbage he spews is dispoven by studies that have been done on androgens and their modes of action. that really begs the question where he even get's these idiotic ideas from if he's never tried it himself, nor is there any science backing up his theories.

Are you fucking kidding me? What scientific studies have been done on IFBB pros and how much gear they use? Seriously, didn't you say just a few days ago you weigh like 150lbs? How about when you've tried any of what's talked about here, you post your experience.

Also, please find me some scientific studies involving the amount of drugs we're discussing.

[aesthetics]

Yes BFG did, and everything he said has been accurate.

accurate that pros use a lot of steroids? yes. accurate that pros use a lot of testosterone? yes. accurate that 4grams of  testosterone is necessary to become a pro? no, not even close to reality.

[aesthetics]

Are you fucking kidding me? What scientific studies have been done on IFBB pros and how much gear they use? Seriously, didn't you say just a few days ago you weigh like 150lbs? How about when you've tried any of what's talked about here, you post your experience.

Also, please find me some scientific studies involving the amount of drugs we're discussing.

what are you talking about you retard? get some reading comprehension and some intellect before you start flailing about, dude.

[flinstones1]

You are all full of shit. 
 

gh15 approved

lol    that was good!

[Wiggs]

On scale, but isn't bodybuilding is all about illusion?

not anymore.  They are as big as they look.

[Stavios]

that swiper dude is a huge guy

[ChevChelios]

And he is using only test and GH as i benchpress like ron coleman.He will never ever ever ever ever


.
.
.
for i=1 to n
print "ever"
until he "removes the cock out of his mouth"
endif

Job done.

[Moen]

I'm curious about those studies as well. I know of only one on supraphysiological testosterone doses by Bhasin and others. Their conclusion was that there is a clear correlation between testosterone dose and muscle gain. Meaning more testosterone, more muscle gain. Of course they only went up to 750 or 1g (can't remember) so there might be a ceiling effect but still.

[bigbobs]

Maybe bfg's cycle is what current pros are taking nowdays, its definitely more than what Nasser took during his heyday

[notsureifsrs]

I'm going for 2 g of test and 20ius of gh next offseason MYSELF...I dont like to mix too many coumpounds and keep it as simple as i can...speaking of test and gh cycles only...here is my boy Swiper who blast around 3g of test and gh and adds an oral for about 5 weeks at times...those who get extremlly bloated on test is because whether there isnt enough gh in their blood or their diet is shit. Hey , what can i say , I like it the Americana way , i fucking love test and double cheeseburgers
SWIPER

It doesn't make sense...

and how much gh he's running with 3grams of test?

[Borracho]

[flinstones1]

I'm curious about those studies as well. I know of only one on supraphysiological testosterone doses by Bhasin and others. Their conclusion was that there is a clear correlation between testosterone dose and muscle gain. Meaning more testosterone, more muscle gain. Of course they only went up to 750 or 1g (can't remember) so there might be a ceiling effect but still.

it was 300mg vs 600mg enanthate for 10 weeks in new england journal of medicine. I do not know of any studies that have used higher than 600mg testosterone.

[L.L]

It doesn't make sense...

and how much gh he's running with 3grams of test?

no less than 10 ius daily up to 15-20 ius....and every 4-5 weeks  he adds  dbol or drol to the mix for 5 weeks or so then goes off the oral for another 4-5 weeks and so on..he is also on clen and t3 year around,....what doesnt make sense to you?

[no one]

what are you talking about you retard? get some reading comprehension and some intellect before you start flailing about, dude.

face it, kid, everyone here who knows what they are talking about, and has been there, knows your full of shit. you are so transparent its ridiculous to think you dont think you are. you just repeat what you read. so, stop giving advice and running around here trying to sound experienced cause you CLEARLY have no first hand experience about the things you talk about. just stick to being the 170 kid at your gym who wishes he was 250, cause thats exactly who you are.

bro, i've bulked solely on bread before, eating 500 grams of bread a day and i didn't get "fat" as i still had abs and striations but i did get the hgh gut.

 

[no one]

no less than 10 ius daily up to 15-20 ius....and every 4-5 weeks  he adds  dbol or drol to the mix for 5 weeks or so then goes off the oral for another 4-5 weeks and so on..he is also on clen and t3 year around,....what doesnt make sense to you?

dude, that guy is a fucking monster.

his chest gives it away for me- thats a fucking thick full dude under there. i'd be willing to put my house on the fact he was on a good bit of anadrol when he sent you this pic.

def the kind of guy that would be best described as 'mutant'. good for him. not many guy can achieve that 'look' and hold it well.

and i think his calves arent small- the angle of the pic is making them look that way. guys in great shape. much props.

[makaveli25]

dude, that guy is a fucking monster.

his chest gives it away for me- thats a fucking thick full dude under there. i'd be willing to put my house on the fact he was on a good bit of anadrol when he sent you this pic.

def the kind of guy that would be best described as 'mutant'. good for him. not many guy can achieve that 'look' and hold it well.

and i think his calves arent small- the angle of the pic is making them look that way. guys in great shape. much props.

Agreed that guy is a freaken monster. The veins wrapping his arms really give the mutant freak look.