Author Topic: Ron Paul Says Accused Traitor is a Patriot  (Read 9580 times)

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63777
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: Ron Paul Says Accused Traitor is a Patriot
« Reply #50 on: December 21, 2011, 01:12:27 PM »
Sorry BB - you and I have a very different idea of what a "smart person" is if they could say something like that.   Like I said - maybe they are good at putting a veneer of intelligence forth to you - but no one could say that qualifies as smart in my book.   

Yeah, we have different definitions.  I don't think people are dumb because they disagree with me.  

I understand where you're coming from.  It's just crazy for people to support Obama after the horrendous job he has done.  But we're talking about more than 50 million people who will be voting or him next year.  I wouldn't consider all of those folks dumb, especially the ones I know.  

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63777
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: Ron Paul Says Accused Traitor is a Patriot
« Reply #51 on: December 21, 2011, 01:37:17 PM »
palin supported another 911 investigation dude.   she's a troofer too.

1.  I am certain, without even using my friend Google, that what you say is likely taken out of context, embellished, or just flat out false. 

2.  No, she is not a 911 Troofer.  She does not believe the government shot a missile into the Pentagon. 

howardroark

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2524
  • Resident Objectivist & Autodidact
Re: Ron Paul Says Accused Traitor is a Patriot
« Reply #52 on: December 21, 2011, 01:55:08 PM »
Um...they outed a string of confedential informants and people who were helping against the Taliban. If they helped launch the arab spring then then helped allow Egypt, an American ally, fall into the hands of the islamists...but that doesn't bother you does it, living in happy unicorn land with the other wingnuts. RP is siding with guy that is a traitor...TRAITOR...trai tor. He got people killed. And your guy says its OK.

Yup 240 was right..u RP idiots are nuts and would back him regardless. Oh and can you make your own points without the help of UTUBE. U said you were'nt familure with the info leaks.....so u go to a leftwing website to make your point. Manning was on suicide watch...his side said he wasn't. The Marines were'nt about to allow him to off himself. But hey...the Left and RP, awsome. "One of our troops"...he leaked this shit. He did leak TS level info plus all kinds of sensitive cables. This is bullshit but allow yourself to be folled because you have zero experience with things like this. I was in Iraq when all this shit was leaked and things were very difficult for us for several monstha s we figured out what he had done.

The info that Manning leaked helped overthrow dictatorships across the Muslim world and yes, at least one of those was our "ally." I guess we know where your loyalties are: with dictatorships in the Muslim world, but not with US interests.

Skip8282

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 7004
Re: Ron Paul Says Accused Traitor is a Patriot
« Reply #53 on: December 21, 2011, 02:17:46 PM »
The info that Manning leaked helped overthrow dictatorships across the Muslim world and yes, at least one of those was our "ally." I guess we know where your loyalties are: with dictatorships in the Muslim world, but not with US interests.



Bullshit...prove it.

I've yet to see any legit connection to Manning and Arab Spring other some bloggers claiming there "may" be something there.

Hell, his entire defense is that the info released was harmless.

howardroark

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2524
  • Resident Objectivist & Autodidact
Re: Ron Paul Says Accused Traitor is a Patriot
« Reply #54 on: December 21, 2011, 02:27:22 PM »


Bullshit...prove it.

I've yet to see any legit connection to Manning and Arab Spring other some bloggers claiming there "may" be something there.

Hell, his entire defense is that the info released was harmless.

From what I understand, the info released exposed some deep-seated corruption in the Tunisian government, which helped spark the protests in that country.

headhuntersix

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17271
  • Our forefathers would be shooting by now
Re: Ron Paul Says Accused Traitor is a Patriot
« Reply #55 on: December 21, 2011, 02:31:37 PM »
Didn't you say you didn't follow the info release. I lived with the shit for months. Manning should be hung until dead.
L

howardroark

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2524
  • Resident Objectivist & Autodidact
Re: Ron Paul Says Accused Traitor is a Patriot
« Reply #56 on: December 21, 2011, 02:38:53 PM »
Didn't you say you didn't follow the info release. I lived with the shit for months. Manning should be hung until dead.

Yeah, I really didn't. And I agree with you that any information he released that was harmful to US soldiers should be a punishable crime. But there is a lot of info he released that showed the true side of the war and of US foreign policy. Some say he helped spark the Arab Spring. In these ways, what he did was patriotic and heroic.

The fact that you choose to side with dictators over allowing people the right to self-determination says a lot about where your true loyalties are: not with the United States, that's for sure.

headhuntersix

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17271
  • Our forefathers would be shooting by now
Re: Ron Paul Says Accused Traitor is a Patriot
« Reply #57 on: December 21, 2011, 02:46:47 PM »
Let me see if I can help you there..since your all about freedom around the world and such. The US does what it does because its in our stategic best interest....not help or hurt or do anything else. If the oil was in outer Mongolia..we'd have bases and I'd have had a ton of Yak barbecue by now. The Arab spring has done nothing but kill alot of people and destabilize the one place that we get our friggen oil from. Manning is a traitor in any way shape or form. His chain of command knew he was a risk but allowed him to continue to access classified data. He should be executed. They're gonna use the gay defense as well and then all the fags from GLAAD will be all over this..as we've seen from Dan Choi protesting st Ft Meade.
L

headhuntersix

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17271
  • Our forefathers would be shooting by now
Re: Ron Paul Says Accused Traitor is a Patriot
« Reply #58 on: December 21, 2011, 02:51:55 PM »
Not only should he get smoked..his chain of command needs to brought in and punished. I had soldiers that were problems, everybody does but I get paid to make sure they don't become everybody elses. I had some down range..they got shipped back home.  If Manning had done what they say he did prior to the leak he would have been handing towels out at the gym until we could ship him home or until the tour ended...without his weapon.


FORT MEADE, Md. (AP) -- Lawyers for the Army intelligence analyst blamed for the biggest national security leak in American history briskly presented the entirety of his defense Wednesday, a year-and-half after the young private allegedly handed a trove of classified data to WikiLeaks.
 
Pfc. Bradley Manning's defense rested its case after calling only two witnesses who testified about his behavioral problems and lax security controls on the computers in his Baghdad office.
 
The hearing was recessed until closing arguments Thursday, after which the case's presiding officer will have until Jan. 16 to recommend whether the 24-year-old Oklahoma native should be court-martialed for aiding the enemy and a score of other charges.
 
Called before the judge Wednesday were a sergeant who witnessed one of Manning's fits of rage in Baghdad and a captain who oversaw the private and his co-workers there in late 2009. The defense has painted Manning as a troubled man who shouldn't have had access to classified material, let alone served in Iraq, and that security at his workplace was weak.
 
Throughout the proceedings, Manning has remained outwardly composed as witness after witness talked about his emotional problems, his difficulties as a gay soldier during the military's "don't ask, don't tell" era, and his violent outbursts while still in the United States and then during his tour of duty in Iraq from late 2009 to mid-2010.
 
Manning was part of a three-soldier skeleton crew working the night shift in a restricted area with computers connected to the military's supposedly secure network for sharing classified information. But witnesses said soldiers routinely accessed music, movies and computer games over the network as well.
 
"I remember thinking that was something we shouldn't be so liberal about," said Capt. Barclay Keay, who was in charge of a night shift Manning worked for a few weeks in late 2009. He found it "kind of odd" that troops were using the secure network for recreational media during work hours, but learned that such activities were an accepted practice on the war front.
 
Manning allegedly downloaded hundreds of thousands of State Department diplomatic cables onto a rewritable CD labeled "Lady Gaga," while lip-synching to her song, "Telephone." He also is accused of sending hundreds of thousands of classified military reports and a video of a deadly American helicopter attack to the secrets-spilling website WikiLeaks, which shared the information with the world.
 
Keay's impression of Manning was that he was a good soldier who "did good analytical work."
 
But Sgt. Daniel Padgett, one of Manning's supervisors, said otherwise, recalling an incident when he sat down with Manning for a "counseling session" after the soldier was late for work.
 
When Padgett tried to impress on Manning the importance of being on time, "his demeanor changed," the former supervisor testified. He said Manning then stood up and overturned a table, spilling a radio and computer onto the floor. Padgett said he moved Manning away from a gun rack while someone else restrained him until he calmed down. Padgett said he didn't remember reporting the incident to his supervisors.
 
The government says Manning's leak of classified data and WikiLeak's revelations rattled U.S. foreign relations and imperiled valuable military and diplomatic sources. It rested its case against Manning on Tuesday after calling 21 witnesses over five days of proceedings at a military base outside Washington.
 
The government wants Manning court-martialed on charges including aiding the enemy. If convicted, he could face life in prison.
 
Prosecution witnesses said Manning was well trained in rules prohibiting release of classified information.
 
Forensic computer experts testified that they'd retraced his keyboard strokes as he downloaded diplomatic cables and raw battlefield reports from Iraq and Afghanistan.
 
And Adrian Lamo, a convicted hacker, said Manning confided to him in May 2010 that he was the leaker. Lamo then informed authorities.
 
After closing arguments, presiding officer Lt. Col. Paul Almanza will weigh his recommendation of whether Manning should be court-martialed. Then, a senior military officer will make the final decision. The process could take several weeks
L

headhuntersix

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 17271
  • Our forefathers would be shooting by now
Re: Ron Paul Says Accused Traitor is a Patriot
« Reply #59 on: December 21, 2011, 06:06:15 PM »
A hero for leaking TS documents....your an idiot. Our education system has failed when our citizens think douchbags like this are hero's.
L

Skip8282

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 7004
Re: Ron Paul Says Accused Traitor is a Patriot
« Reply #60 on: December 21, 2011, 06:32:54 PM »
This shitbag is no hero and didn't do shit to usher in Arab Spring.  If found guilty, he needs to be shot.

Roger Bacon

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 20957
  • Roger Bacon tries to be witty and fails
Re: Ron Paul Says Accused Traitor is a Patriot
« Reply #61 on: December 21, 2011, 09:54:32 PM »
He discovered proof of illegal doings by our military, and he was brave enough to put his neck on the line and leak the stuff.

He his an hero.

Manning was one of 241 candidates listed for the 2011 Nobel Peace Prize.

Roger Bacon

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 20957
  • Roger Bacon tries to be witty and fails
Re: Ron Paul Says Accused Traitor is a Patriot
« Reply #62 on: December 21, 2011, 09:57:32 PM »
"In addition to this "Collateral Murder" video, Pfc. Manning is suspected of leaking the "Afghan War Diaries" – tens of thousands of battlefield reports that explicitly describe civilian deaths and cover-ups, corrupt officials, collusion with warlords, and a failing US/NATO war effort."

He's a real traitor for leaking stuff like that....

We need more brave heros like PFC Manning today.

Roger Bacon

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 20957
  • Roger Bacon tries to be witty and fails
Re: Ron Paul Says Accused Traitor is a Patriot
« Reply #63 on: December 21, 2011, 09:59:53 PM »
Did Bradley Manning's leaks actually aid the enemy? A different view than that terribly slanted article hh6 posted:

Absolutely not, they aided the American people in their battle against the treasonous Bush and Obama administrations.

Roger Bacon

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 20957
  • Roger Bacon tries to be witty and fails
Re: Ron Paul Says Accused Traitor is a Patriot
« Reply #64 on: December 21, 2011, 10:03:54 PM »
if you guys are arguing that this guy is a traitor for exposing a corrupt government then you are morons lol. He exposed the traitors, he exposed the people that take advantage and commit terrible acts because they have the power to do so. How is it un american to expose corrupt law breaking government officials, if you condone the government being corrupt and abusing power then you are the sheep that have put the country in the state it is. Ron Paul is 100% right, expose these fucking scumbags, these traitors and money takers.




loco

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 19094
  • loco like a fox
Re: Ron Paul Says Accused Traitor is a Patriot
« Reply #65 on: December 22, 2011, 05:27:32 AM »
"In addition to this "Collateral Murder" video, Pfc. Manning is suspected of leaking the "Afghan War Diaries" – tens of thousands of battlefield reports that explicitly describe civilian deaths and cover-ups, corrupt officials, collusion with warlords, and a failing US/NATO war effort."

Fixed.  Never print a dark font on a dark background.  It's hard to read.    >:(

Necrosis

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 9899
Re: Ron Paul Says Accused Traitor is a Patriot
« Reply #66 on: December 22, 2011, 08:28:07 AM »
The president is the Commander in Chief.  He cannot condone when a Soldier breaks the law and disobeys orders and directives like Manning. 

And saying he "technically" broke the law??  Calling him a hero?  He will get crucified over this.  There is no way members of the military would support this.   

exposing corruption and tyranny should never be punished, its like you guys are saying he is bad for exposing people who have killed others against the law, are corrupt, have violated basic human rights etc. Why is he a traitor? because the people he exposed are considered americans? i would consider them terrorists.

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63777
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: Ron Paul Says Accused Traitor is a Patriot
« Reply #67 on: December 22, 2011, 09:44:06 AM »
exposing corruption and tyranny should never be punished, its like you guys are saying he is bad for exposing people who have killed others against the law, are corrupt, have violated basic human rights etc. Why is he a traitor? because the people he exposed are considered americans? i would consider them terrorists.

He's traitor for betraying his oath to his country.  And for breaking the law.  And for putting the lives of his fellow Soldiers in danger.  He should be shot, resurrected, and hanged. 

Skip8282

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 7004
Re: Ron Paul Says Accused Traitor is a Patriot
« Reply #68 on: December 22, 2011, 06:46:10 PM »
He's traitor for betraying his oath to his country.  And for breaking the law.  And for putting the lives of his fellow Soldiers in danger.  He should be shot, resurrected, and hanged. 



X 100000000000000000000000 00000

Necrosis

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 9899
Re: Ron Paul Says Accused Traitor is a Patriot
« Reply #69 on: December 24, 2011, 01:45:18 PM »
He's traitor for betraying his oath to his country.  And for breaking the law.  And for putting the lives of his fellow Soldiers in danger.  He should be shot, resurrected, and hanged. 

an oath that when examined is/was based on lies. What law? laws that prevent people from exposing frauds and criminals, what is a law if its moral underpinning is missing. Also, you are a hypocrite law breaker, what value do you place in law? have you worked on the sabbath? have you ever talked back to your parents? biblical law requires you stoned, not so found of following this law well because its too hard and clearly ridiculous.

so you seem to be in favor of my approach also then, you pick and choose which laws to follow based on some algorithm or perhaps a roll of hte dice, but you do differentiate them, much like any sane person would do in this case. Again what solution does he have, put the soldiers at risk or expose government lies putting those troops lives on the line based on lies. His only options were expose it or hide it you clearly are of the moral standard that you would hide the documents i however would expose corruption and see it as the etiology per se of the wars in the first place, your solution is piecemeal.

240 is Back

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 102396
  • Complete website for only $300- www.300website.com
Re: Ron Paul Says Accused Traitor is a Patriot
« Reply #70 on: December 24, 2011, 01:54:46 PM »
if you think the law sucks, you never sign up to join the military.

if youre in the military and see war crimes and disagree, you resign and take the dishonorable dischrge (or just shoot off your trigger finger and get medical banana'd out).

You don't go leaking shitload of state secrets, unaware of the full consequences.  Prosecute him.

Shockwave

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 20807
  • Decepticons! Scramble!
Re: Ron Paul Says Accused Traitor is a Patriot
« Reply #71 on: December 24, 2011, 03:25:53 PM »
if you think the law sucks, you never sign up to join the military.

if youre in the military and see war crimes and disagree, you resign and take the dishonorable dischrge (or just shoot off your trigger finger and get medical banana'd out).

You don't go leaking shitload of state secrets, unaware of the full consequences.  Prosecute him.
No such thing as resigning unless youve completed your mandatory enlistment term. You cant get out early because you disagree with something.
But yeah I agree with you on most of it.
You dont go looking secrets because you disagree with what goes on... War.. is war.
You either deal with it or you bail after your enlistment is up. You dont sell out your country.

Dos Equis

  • Moderator
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 63777
  • I am. The most interesting man in the world. (Not)
Re: Ron Paul Says Accused Traitor is a Patriot
« Reply #72 on: December 24, 2011, 04:42:01 PM »
an oath that when examined is/was based on lies. What law? laws that prevent people from exposing frauds and criminals, what is a law if its moral underpinning is missing. Also, you are a hypocrite law breaker, what value do you place in law? have you worked on the sabbath? have you ever talked back to your parents? biblical law requires you stoned, not so found of following this law well because its too hard and clearly ridiculous.

so you seem to be in favor of my approach also then, you pick and choose which laws to follow based on some algorithm or perhaps a roll of hte dice, but you do differentiate them, much like any sane person would do in this case. Again what solution does he have, put the soldiers at risk or expose government lies putting those troops lives on the line based on lies. His only options were expose it or hide it you clearly are of the moral standard that you would hide the documents i however would expose corruption and see it as the etiology per se of the wars in the first place, your solution is piecemeal.

First of all, this isn't about me.  And you can take that asinine religious garbage to the religion board.  

Second, here is the oath he took:

"I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

I don't have a cite to the specific order, regulation, or federal law that says don't share classified information, but it's likely contained in all three (order, regulation, and federal law).  Anyone with an ounce of common sense knows this.

If he believed he observed wrongdoing, the way to handle it is not to trample on his oath or violate the law.  You use your chain of command.  You inform your superiors.  If you're uncomfortable doing that, or unhappy with their response, you go to the inspector general, who will ALWAYS listen.  If that doesn't work, you write your Congressman.  What you don't do is share secrets with the enemy, or the press, etc.  This is a friggin no brainer.   ::)  

Mr. Magoo

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 9808
  • THE most mistaken identity on getbig
Re: Ron Paul Says Accused Traitor is a Patriot
« Reply #73 on: December 24, 2011, 04:47:15 PM »
I haven't read this thread, but he (That Manning (?) fellow) should be let go.

I'll happily argue.

Mr. Magoo

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 9808
  • THE most mistaken identity on getbig
Re: Ron Paul Says Accused Traitor is a Patriot
« Reply #74 on: December 24, 2011, 04:55:25 PM »
He's traitor for betraying his oath to his country.  And for breaking the law.  And for putting the lives of his fellow Soldiers in danger.  He should be shot, resurrected, and hanged. 

You gave 3 reasons, let's examine these:

1. Is it ever justified to break ones oath to ones country? if so, when?

2. Is it ever justified to break the law, if so, when?

3. How did he put the lives of his fellow soldiers in danger? I know he leaked a lot of files and that helicopter video that became famous. Let's say he put 5 soldiers lives in danger (assuming, for some weird reason, that the lives of those 5 soldiers were not already in danger). Would it be justified to expose war crimes? What if these were extreme war crimes (Say for instance, the torture of 1,000 Iraqi citizens, and 500 of those died from the torture). Would it be justified to put 5 U.S. soldier lives in danger to save 1,000 Iraqi citizens from being tortured (and 500 of that 1000 from dying)? You need to either say A) It is never justified to put any U.S. soldier's life in more danger than the life already is in time of war no matter what the consequences may be or B) It is sometimes justified considering the consequences to put lives of U.S. soldiers in danger. If you choose B, you have to define what situations.