The GOP's Payroll Tax Fiasco

[Soul Crusher]

Wait a minute, are you now arguing that tax cuts are beneficial to an economy? Haha, you can't even keep your story straight.

By the way, Americans won't see a dime from a two-month extension as it has already been shown that it will take longer than that to implement it. Not that the left was really interested in helping anyone as much as they were interested in scoring political points.

dddduuhhhh!!!!!

[Straw Man]

Wait a minute, are you now arguing that tax cuts are beneficial to an economy? Haha, you can't even keep your story straight.

By the way, Americans won't see a dime from a two-month extension as it has already been shown that it will take longer than that to implement it. Not that the left was really interested in helping anyone as much as they were interested in scoring political points.

how many times have we been over this before

tax cuts on people who are poor and middle class will SPEND THE MONEY and it will benefit the economy

the same thing with unemployment benefit, food stamps etc..

tax cuts on millionaires doesn't help the economy because they don't go out and spend any more than they did before.   

When poor and middle class people have more money in their pocket they tend to SPEND it which has a stimulative effect on the economy

[Straw Man]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57346952-503544/karl-rove-piles-on-tells-republicans-to-cut-bait-in-tax-standoff/

Karl Rove piles on, tells Republicans to cut bait in tax standoff

You know it's bad for Republicans when Karl Rove says it's time to cave and move on.

The former political adviser to President George W. Bush said Wednesday that the famously conservative Wall Street Journal editorial page was right when it said House Republicans should cut their losses and agree with a bipartisan Senate plan to extend for just two months the payroll tax cut enacted last year.

Republicans "have lost the optics on it," Rove told Fox News, "the question now is how do the Republicans get out of it."
Speaker John Boehner and House Republicans on Tuesday blocked a Senate proposal to extend the popular tax cut for two months in an effort to allow lawmaker from both parties more time to hash out a larger compromise on a host of issues that were holding up the payroll tax extension.

Boehner had reportedly backed the plan at first, but many of the most conservative members of parties revolted on Saturday and said they would not accept the Senate plan, vowing to kill it when it came to the House of Representatives.

But that may have been easier said than done. So Boehner came up with a plan to block the Senate bill without actually voting on the extension. Using a procedural move, the House voted to "disagree" with the Senate plan and set up a committee of members from both parties from both the House and Senate to work out a new compromise on legislation.

But most senators had already left Washington for the holidays and the Senate proposal was itself a compromise between Democrats and Republicans, who overwhelmingly supported the short-term legislative option to avoid the most contentious issues and pass the popular tax cut for two months. The Senate bill, which also includes an extension of unemployment benefits and a measure to make sure doctors do not have their Medicare payments cut, passed 89-10. All but seven Republicans voted for it.

The mastermind of Mr. Bush's 2004 re-election effort said the only thing Republicans can do now is "use it for political theater and then vote the two month extension and get out of town."

"The only way to win it is to just stick there and ruin their own Christmases and wait until the president heads off to Hawaii for his, and then lambaste the Democrats for having abdicated their responsibilities to pass a year-long tax cut," Rove said.

The payroll tax affects about 160 million Americans and it was cut a year ago in an effort to stimulate the economy with a little extra cash in people's pockets. Many conservative Republicans are skeptical of the macroeconomic benefits of the payroll tax cut.

Mark Zandi, an influential economist who served as an adviser to the 2008 presidential campaign of Sen. John McCain, has said the economy could fall back into recession if the payroll tax cut is not extended.

Rove is smart enough to know that opposing this (and fighting amongst themselves while doing it) will ONLY make them look bad. There is no upside for them from the clusterfuck they have created for themselves in their own party

[Fury]

Nice meltdown devoid of fact.

If that's the case then why isn't Obama jumping all over the GOP offer to extend it for a year instead of two months?

[Soul Crusher]

how many times have we been over this before

tax cuts on people who are poor and middle class will SPEND THE MONEY and it will benefit the economy

the same thing with unemployment benefit, food stamps etc..

tax cuts on millionaires doesn't help the economy because they don't go out and spend any more than they did before.   

When poor and middle class people have more money in their pocket they tend to SPEND it which has a stimulative effect on the economy

LOL.  So why not write each of them a check for 100K 

[Fury]

LOL.  So why not write each of them a check for 100K 

Why not get rid of taxes entirely then?

[Straw Man]

Nice meltdown devoid of fact.

If that's the case then why isn't Obama jumping all over the GOP offer to extend it for a year instead of two months?

so now you don't even know what a meltdown is?

[Soul Crusher]

LOL.  So why not write each of them a check for 100K 

BUMP

[howardroark]

how many times have we been over this before

tax cuts on people who are poor and middle class will SPEND THE MONEY and it will benefit the economy

the same thing with unemployment benefit, food stamps etc..

tax cuts on millionaires doesn't help the economy because they don't go out and spend any more than they did before.   

When poor and middle class people have more money in their pocket they tend to SPEND it which has a stimulative effect on the economy

Consumption doesn't stimulate economic growth. Investment does. And if the government borrows money in order to fund greater consumption, it'll necessarily reduce investment.

[Soul Crusher]

Consumption doesn't stimulate economic growth. Investment does. And if the government borrows money in order to fund greater consumption, it'll necessarily reduce investment.

Straw is a big govt kenysian who though the biggest issue with the stim bill was that it was too small.   


BTW Straw - if $40 a week is good for the economy - why not write each person a check for 100k? 

[GigantorX]

Consumption doesn't stimulate economic growth. Investment does. And if the government borrows money in order to fund greater consumption, it'll necessarily reduce investment.

Good post.

Poor people spending change on milk from the corner store doesn't stimulate the economy. This whole thing is a terrible idea and will never, ever be a good one.

Typical D.C. bullshit at its best.

[GigantorX]

The Payroll-Tax Cut, the Stimulus plans (all of them) and every other broken and discredited idea that has been spoken about or used in the last few years has proven that the the politicians have no clue about anything vaguely related to a solution or even a workable positive idea.

They don't. They are lawyers, narcissists and power hungry simpletons. There is no understanding of the problem, no understanding of long term implications of anything and zero intellectual ability to form a workable solution. Either they are ill-informed, moronic phonies (yes), or anti-American power hungry brainless robots who only care about getting theirs and getting re-elected...unfortunately I think it's all of the above.

The politics of the issue are meaningless, they really are. The Payroll Tax Cut is a terrible, awful and idiotic idea. Just fucking terrible. The very fact that both sides are playing a game with an awful idea that will cripple an already comatose S.S. system should tell you all you need to know. The idea of the Payroll Tax Cut doesn't even make sense, it doesn't even touch the employers side of the equation.....and guess what, I DIDN'T FUCKING WORK AND WON'T WORK.

All of this tit for tat garbage over an idea that is a proven failure and harmful to the nation. 160 billion dollars? Out of a 16 trillion dollar economy? Jesus, my fellow students in my H.S. basic econ. class could have told us this wouldn't work.

Guess what hasn't been argued or discusses or even mentioned by anyone except a few people.................. .an actual solution.

Congress needs to kill themselves.

[Straw Man]

The Payroll-Tax Cut, the Stimulus plans (all of them) and every other broken and discredited idea that has been spoken about or used in the last few years has proven that the the politicians have no clue about anything vaguely related to a solution or even a workable positive idea.

They don't. They are lawyers, narcissists and power hungry simpletons. There is no understanding of the problem, no understanding of long term implications of anything and zero intellectual ability to form a workable solution. Either they are ill-informed, moronic phonies (yes), or anti-American power hungry brainless robots who only care about getting theirs and getting re-elected...unfortunately I think it's all of the above.

The politics of the issue are meaningless, they really are. The Payroll Tax Cut is a terrible, awful and idiotic idea. Just fucking terrible. The very fact that both sides are playing a game with an awful idea that will cripple an already comatose S.S. system should tell you all you need to know. The idea of the Payroll Tax Cut doesn't even make sense, it doesn't even touch the employers side of the equation.....and guess what, I DIDN'T FUCKING WORK AND WON'T WORK.

All of this tit for tat garbage over an idea that is a proven failure and harmful to the nation. 160 billion dollars? Out of a 16 trillion dollar economy? Jesus, my fellow students in my H.S. basic econ. class could have told us this wouldn't work.

Guess what hasn't been argued or discusses or even mentioned by anyone except a few people.................. .an actual solution.

Congress needs to kill themselves.

didn't "work" how?

didnt' put spendable cash in peoples pockets?

[Soul Crusher]

didn't "work" how?

didnt' put spendable cash in peoples pockets?

Straw - get this through your thick head - between energy, health, food, and monetary inflation in the last few years, 40 dollars is nothing and will not do a damn thing.   The problem is the cost of govt and contingent obligations we have no way to pay for as well as raging inflation in areas people have no control over.

[Straw Man]

Straw - get this through your thick head - between energy, health, food, and monetary inflation in the last few years, 40 dollars is nothing and will not do a damn thing.   The problem is the cost of govt and contingent obligations we have no way to pay for as well as raging inflation in areas people have no control over.

$40 per week makes not difference to me

$40 per week to a family of four with a household income of 35k will make a difference that they will feel

$40 a week to a family of four with a household income of 100k won't make any difference

[Soul Crusher]

$40 per week makes not difference to me

$40 per week to a family of four with a household income of 35k will make a difference that they will feel

$40 a week to a family of four with a household income of 100k won't make any difference

You just don't get it.  The 40 dollars is not the issue.    It's WHY they need it, and where it is coming from, and what is the impact on SS considering contingent liabilities.    e should have cut the income tax and offset it w spending cuts in the govt, not raid SS. 

[Straw Man]

You just don't get it.  The 40 dollars is not the issue.    It's WHY they need it, and where it is coming from, and what is the impact on SS considering contingent liabilities.    e should have cut the income tax and offset it w spending cuts in the govt, not raid SS. 

if it's not the issue then why do you keep bringing it up

[Soul Crusher]

if it's not the issue then why do you keep bringing it up

Because the pofs potus you support is out there. Lying about it daily.  The issue is where is the money coming from and what is the impact on SS considering millions are going on the system.   

[Straw Man]

Because the pofs potus you support is out there. Lying about it daily.  The issue is where is the money coming from and what is the impact on SS considering millions are going on the system.   

dude, Obama is going to collapse the nation and turn us into Communist China as soon as he wins re-election

or

he's going not even going to be running


remember?

[Soul Crusher]

Gas Prices Hit Record High Averages in 2011 (Costs average family $4,155 more! Way to go Hussein!)
kcrg.com ^ | 12/21/11 | Addison Speck



...this years average cost of fuel sets a new record. For 2011, the national average price for fuel is about $3.50 a gallon. That accounts for about 8.4% of the average American family’s income, the highest percentage in 30 years.

The average American household will have spent, a record, $4,155 filling up this year. Though it’s not what some Eastern Iowans wanted to hear, for many it wasn’t a surprise.

(Excerpt) Read more at kcrg.com ...