So what is the best first cycle?

[aesthetics]

i don't like test, i get more side effects than benefits from it. for myself, if i were to start all over again with my first cycle? i would have gone straight to tren, i would have just blasted tren and d-bol from the very start.  

for someone else though? i don't know, i think tren is absolutely the best steroid for bodybuilding, period. but for some people the sides are unbearable and so it's hard to make a blanket statement, like is done on a lot of these boards, stating what someone "should" or "shouldn't" do for their cycles. most people know their own body's better than some random goofball on elitefitness named Ronniecoleman'sBicep1988, and with experience and experimenting people will eventually learn what works best for themselves.  

it's very hard to guess how someone will react to a steroid but i think since everyone who is serious about bodybuilding will eventually run tren there's really no point in putting it off for a later "cycle" since it's not as if the body will build a resistance and an immunity to steroid side effects after running them for a year, lol

safer, non-test route, would be running nandrolone either deca or NPP (npp is better, in my opinion). d-bol is always good, anadrol is great too but like tren it comes with the baggage of harder side effects (which is again, also subjective, because similar to how i get worse sides from test than tren, people get worse sides from d-bol than drol, so who knows).

i guess, since it sounds like you are trying to break into steroids with the milder compounds: EQ, deca, var would be in the list of the more mild steroids. primo could debatably be in that list too but, it's so subjective and some people actually get some real serious androgenic side effects from primo because primo is a pure-dht derivative and is actually pretty androgenic causing the typical androgenic sides like prostate hypertrophy and hairloss. d-bol is pretty mild overall, at least for an oral, but some people get pretty bad estrogen related sides and need to run an AI with it, i don't but again, huge variance with how people respond to steroids.

[Borracho]

Goal : Get big And aesthetic... walk around 220 at 10% body fat year round.
I would like to add 10-15 pounds of lbm and drop my body weight 2-4%. My only down side is I still like to run and be athletic and from research tren seems to be horrible for an athlete. Maybe a test var or test t-bol cycle would be better?  Getting big/aesthetic is the focus here so i'm not looking for a purely athletic cycle.  It's to decide what to do in this thread alone there is like 5 first cycle suggestions(test only, test deca, test eq, test orall, test tren.   faurk.  I am trying to do as much research but the more research I do the more confusing it gets.( By confusing I mean by 1000 different opinions. )

Maybe you should try to forget this whole "cycle" idea, start trying different hormones and stick with the ones you like.

[Borracho]

That does not seem like the best approach... Mainly for health reasons and outcome.

Well, you can see why you will always get all sorts of suggestions though right?

These guys with actual experience are all affected differently with the steroids that they themselves have tried. There's only one way to find out how your body will react.

[nosleep]

Goal : Get big And aesthetic... walk around 220 at 10% body fat year round.
I would like to add 10-15 pounds of lbm and drop my body weight 2-4%. My only down side is I still like to run and be athletic and from research tren seems to be horrible for an athlete. Maybe a test var or test t-bol cycle would be better?  Getting big/aesthetic is the focus here so i'm not looking for a purely athletic cycle.  It's to decide what to do in this thread alone there is like 5 first cycle suggestions(test only, test deca, test eq, test orall, test tren.   faurk.  I am trying to do as much research but the more research I do the more confusing it gets.( By confusing I mean by 1000 different opinions. )

600MG EQ, 300 TREN, 300 PROP. MOVE TREN UP BY 50, PROP DOWN BY 50 EVERY PLATEAU AND ADD MASTERON 50MG EOD UP TO 100MG EOD AFTER YOU PLATEAU FROM THAT.

[whitewidow]

my first cycle i gained 30 lbs on locally cooked test and deca. clean too. albeit watery.

i went off for too long hunting for another local source.

when i finally went back on i had lost most of my gains and that time i did test at 750, deca at 600, and five weeks of dbol tapering up to 50 mg a day. i gained 34lbs in 12 weeks this time, but judging by the mirror i know that that extra four lbs was just water. so what was really the point in adding an oral and upping the dosages? none that i can see. you can only gain so fast and only so much on aas before you have to explore other mechanisms like gh and insulin anyway.

so in my experience orals are just not necessary imo ever. you can accomplish the exact same thing with injectables without unnecessary liver toxicity. (remember: "all aas drugs activate the same cellular receptor, and as such share similar protein anabolizing properties.") and always remember more does not necessary equate more gains; although it does always equate more side effects!

let me share with you all something that i feel is very important especially in light of the information bfg is sharing and the out of this world dosages he's condoning
this is a paragraph from william lleyllen's anabolics 10th edition:

you can use Tbol instead of dbol and you want get that water retention. so I would go Test E 250-500mg 400-600EQ and 4 weeks of Tbol start at 20mg and bump up 10mg a week for 4 weeks I bet a first timer would gain 20 fairly lean pounds off of Test E 250mg-500mg, 400-600mg EQ, 20mg tbol raising up to 50mg by the end of week for and continuing out 6 more weeks of just Test E and EQ

[aesthetics]

you can use Tbol instead of dbol and you want get that water retention. so I would go Test E 250-500mg 400-600EQ and 4 weeks of Tbol start at 20mg and bump up 10mg a week for 4 weeks I bet a first timer would gain 20 fairly lean pounds off of Test E 250mg-500mg, 400-600mg EQ, 20mg tbol raising up to 50mg by the end of week for and continuing out 6 more weeks of just Test E and EQ

oh yeah, i completely forgot about t-bol. t-bol is probably the best oral option for this guy. only issue with t-bol is it's hard to find properly dosed legit t-bol since it is pretty expensive.

[DorianGrey]

since i have fallen for the ' first cycle ' trap...* im in week 6 of dbol n test e...* i have a question..

can i by week 10 or 8 if i feel z gainz have slowed down , can i lower the test dose to 300mg and add a second compound and run them both? or should i keep it the same? what compounds would be recommended?

[madg]

600MG EQ, 300 TREN, 300 PROP. MOVE TREN UP BY 50, PROP DOWN BY 50 EVERY PLATEAU AND ADD MASTERON 50MG EOD UP TO 100MG EOD AFTER YOU PLATEAU FROM THAT.

^^ this..stop overanalyze

[abijahmaniaco]

i don't know why people keep making an emphasis on "first" and "second cycle"

his "cycle" = your blast. he doesn't have plans to stay on. he's testing the waters.

just add more steroids. i mean, that's really all there is too it, bodybuilding is all drugs anyways. keep adding more until you get to the size you want.

in this thread alone there is like 5 first cycle suggestions(test only, test deca, test eq, test orall, test tren.   faurk.  I am trying to do as much research but the more research I do the more confusing it gets.( By confusing I mean by 1000 different opinions. )

research these compounds. read articles that site scientific studies. weigh the science with our opinions. make a decision.

the reason i suggested test and deca is because they make a nice synergistic combination since test is more androgenic--deca more anabolic (both are also naturally occurring hormones--neither have been altered so i believe this is why they sit well with the body) and it really is among the safest (if not the safest) stack you can run.

although, given your goals, i suggest tren 300 mg/week + test 250 mg/week + drostanolone 150 mg/week + 4 iu gh daily.

you pick the ester depending on how frequently you want to stick yourself. there's no science behind claims that different esters = different results. it's the same exact fucking thing just with varying half-lives.

Maybe you should try to forget this whole "cycle" idea, start trying different hormones and stick with the ones you like.

this. but for pity's sake, read about it before you stick it in your body.

Oral at the start of the cycle not in the middle when.you hit a plateau?

the gains will be negligible. it's not worth the dramatic negative effect orals have on your cholesterol + hepatoxicity. how many ways can i say DIMINISHING RETURNS??

when you truly plateau gh higher dose is your answer. not more steroids and more orals. they all activate the same fucking androgen receptors. once they're all saturated there is no point in dumping more steroid on them.

[aesthetics]

Would Geneza Pharmaceuticals t-bol be properly dosed good quality tbol if of course it was legit?

Also I read something that the oral should be used in the middle to the end of a cycle when you hit a plateau instead of at the start what do you think?

i have not heard good things about GP. they are inconsistent like most public UGLs, no clue about their t-bol though. with most ugls when you go with test/deca/d-bol it's usually those steroids you are getting, possibly under or overdosed, but those rarely get faked and are actually used to fake other compounds. when you buy other steroids from ugls though, it's a crap-shoot. you have no idea what's actually in the vial. there's a reason people spend 3 times more money on human grade or bust their ass to get in with private sources, it's because most ugls are shit.

[aesthetics]

the distinction isn't so much human grade or UGL as it is trustworthy source or not. human grade gets faked more than any other product because you can make an oil, already marked up 15x cost and mark it up another 3 times by claiming it's human grade. happens very often so you have to be even more careful when going HG.

like i told you before, the only sources that i trust, and the only sources you see other people here recommend are all private so i can't really help you in this regard even if i gave you their names. i know it sucks, i've been in your position before, i know exactly what it feels like but really not much can be done. i don't really want to say much more on the subject though because it's broaching the line of open sourcing and it's making me feel uncomfortable. try reading a few open source boards though, tons of people talk about sources there, you will get pointed in the right direction at which point you will know the right questions to ask without making people feel awkward.

[SamsonD]

Shit man, I wish I had known about getbig before I ran my first cycle.  I ran test c at 400 a week with 40mg dianabol per day for first 6 weeks.  I LOOKED LIKE A FUCKING SHORT OFFENSIVE LINMAN.  I was all bloofed out to the tune of 260lbs, mostly water and some fat because I was too fat starting the cycle and estrogen fucking owned me.

If I could do it all over I would run sust at something like 500(for whatever reason I don't get anywhere near the estro sides on sust) and EQ at 600 and I would run that shit for 16 solid weeks.  Something else that I've learned that helps with test a lot is if I get sides 10mg of nolva per day or even 20 EOD gets rid of a lot of water and cures itchy nips.  What I like better though is masteron at 50-100mg EOD.
Hell you could even run the cycle above and have mast or even winny on hand and end the cycle four or six weeks with the three compounds and dry out a little bit.

The last thing you should consider is that you will fucking LOVE being "on" so much you will turn into the rest of us and never get off LOL!  Once you cross over, training natural fucking SUCKS.

[Voland]

So sust 250 twice a week and eq 250 every 3 days?  What about pct?  Any opinions on HCG?

Are you a mentally stable individual? For real. If stay away from clomid. It'll turn you into a bitch a girlyman with moodswings etc. Just use your hcg with nolva and aromasin for instance.

If you can handle the clomid sides. them clomid and hcg and you're good to go.