lay nortom is such a natural beast!

[Ursus]

Why is a hormone expert the best guy to determine who is natural or not?

@ Dustin. Did not know that I only know from him what I read on bb.com years ago and what is posted here about him. The stomping about is stupid.

I am still not convinced he is juicing at all.

[dustin]

anyway, you and i, being natural, are not the best people to judge these pics... can we get the hormone experts to weigh in?

Is this your first fucking day on Getbig? Liar Nortrom is juiced to the tits!!

Trenbologna, orals like halo, GH, it's all fair game to him. Do you think his strength and conditioning are just God given?

To his credit, sort of, I do predict he just runs lower doses during the "off season" and ramps up during his competitive season. Look at him more than 8 weeks outside of a contest and then a few weeks out. He is someone who truly does scale his drug doses up and down and cycles them, but he uses them period. And that's the important thing, because he says he DOESN'T. Pure fucking bullshit.

He'd be 20-30lbs lighter and looking DISHEVELED in "contest condition" if he were natural.

[cephissus]

i was being sarcastic, but thank you

also, ursus, we ask the hormone users because they have more experience than either you or i regarding the effects of steroids.

[dustin]

i was being sarcastic, but thank you

also, ursus, we ask the hormone users because they have more experience than either you or i regarding the effects of steroids.

I gotcha!

That Nortrom is a liar through and through. I shake my head at him because he could just play his cards a bit better and be a LOT more respected. He's otherwise a very intelligent individual. He knows he's a rat faced, shit eating liar though. I don't know how he deals with that part... I couldn't live with myself if I were in his position.

[Swlabr]

anyway, you and i, being natural, are not the best people to judge these pics... can we get the hormone experts to weigh in?

short...esters...in...ou t...addicted...to...tren ..ace...tne...npp...hgh. ..

[apply85]

most likely he deals with it with narcotics or he's the sociopath type

[haider]

I really have a hard time believing Layne takes steroids. I think the gh15 camp is in serious error about this guy.

[Ursus]

i was being sarcastic, but thank you

also, ursus, we ask the hormone users because they have more experience than either you or i regarding the effects of steroids.

But surely if they do not reach the limit of Layne how would they know?

After all you said a shitty physique is not indicative of being natural?

[dustin]

I really have a hard time believing Layne takes steroids. I think the gh15 camp is in serious error about this guy.

Look at the off and on season pics of him throughout the years. He's clearly on the juice.

[Ursus]

I really have a hard time believing Layne takes steroids. I think the gh15 camp is in serious error about this guy.

x2

[haider]

But surely if they do not reach the limit of Layne how would they know?

After all you said a shitty physique is not indicative of being natural?

agreed.

Look at the off and on season pics of him throughout the years. He's clearly on the juice.

not sure what exactly you are pointing to, but this guys works his fuckin ass off. As Ursus says, you can't know until you've done it yourself: and sure as hell 99% of people out there don't have the work ethic and access to muscletech products this guy does.

Its possible, for example, that incremental differences between someone who NEVER falters or their diet and NEVER misses a workout really add up over the years. There is no way to know what you are capable of unless you try doing the same thing, if you can do so without failing.

[njflex]

agreed.
not sure what exactly you are pointing to, but this guys works his fuckin ass off. As Ursus says, you can't know until you've done it yourself: and sure as hell 99% of people out there don't have the work ethic and access to muscletech products this guy does.

Its possible, for example, that incremental differences between someone who NEVER falters or their diet and NEVER misses a workout really add up over the years. There is no way to know what you are capable of unless you try doing the same thing, if you can do so without failing.

anything is possible,,but looking at offseason or powerlifting pics he does not look like his bbing look,,so say he takes 12-16 wks to get that look its how he fill's in the blanks that get him there.could it be done clean by him?

[haider]

anything is possible,,but looking at offseason or powerlifting pics he does not look like his bbing look,,so say he takes 12-16 wks to get that look its how he fill's in the blanks that get him there.could it be done clean by him?

pictures can be deceiving though, and you can look 'smaller' in offseason because your muscles are not as defined and don't 'pop' like they do when you are conditioned. I'm not sure how long he diets but he's known for very long diets (1 lb per week)

[aesthetics]

his genetics are far too shit to be that big at that low bodyfat.

look at his joints, and his bone size - that is the ultimate deciding factor of how large a natural bodybody will get. it doesn't matter how high someone's natural testosterone levels are, nor their growth hormone levels, people will never escape their genetics without manipulating their genetics (i.e. injecting hormones).

someone with such a small pathetic frame isn't going to get 18 inch arms at 5% naturally, with completely full muscle bellies. hell, pros juiced to the gills had trouble doing that in the 1970s. anyone really think a natural is going to come into a show dry as hell, weighing 210 @ 5'10 and 5% bodyfat with completely full muscle bellies? not happening, especially with his shit genetics.

[cephissus]

agreed.
not sure what exactly you are pointing to, but this guys works his fuckin ass off. As Ursus says, you can't know until you've done it yourself: and sure as hell 99% of people out there don't have the work ethic and access to muscletech products this guy does.

Its possible, for example, that incremental differences between someone who NEVER falters or their diet and NEVER misses a workout really add up over the years. There is no way to know what you are capable of unless you try doing the same thing, if you can do so without failing.

please shut the fuck up about hard work and dedication

almost everyone on this board is dedicated enough to get as big as they can naturally, i sincerely hope this helps

this line of reasoning is absolute, unfounded bullshit which is contradicted by evidence at every turn, and has been used for centuries in all aspects of life by ignorant, unhappy people who don't have the privilege of an education or, in many cases, a working brain

[haider]

please shut the fuck up about hard work and dedication

almost everyone on this board is dedicated enough to get as big as they can naturally, i sincerely hope this helps

And you know this how?  Its hard to know over the time scales im talking about, 10+ years of training and good nutrition.

Do you think he's incredibly big for a natural, or do you take issue with how well he holds his condition?  I think most people have a harder time with the latter, which again takes extreme dedication to achieve. Not enough people get in that type of condition to really separate whats possible and impossible, JMO.

[haider]

this line of reasoning is absolute, unfounded bullshit which is contradicted by evidence at every turn, and has been used for centuries in all aspects of life by ignorant, unhappy people who don't have the privilege of an education or, in many cases, a working brain

the complete opposite of this is pessimism, I think that's something far too common.

Having said all of the above, I'm fully willing to admit I could be full of shit here LOL

[cephissus]

And you know this how?

I don't, I'm just putting my view out there.

[disco_stu]

x2

x3.

the gh15 nut huggers and the guy himself have no idea. they never trained for any decent amount of time with success WITHOUT gear, so they tar everyone else who achieves.

there are absolutely no tell tale signs that layne juices...the myth that u cant get lean without gear is one propogated by gh15 himself.

people have been mega lean since the dawn of time..some can, some cant.

the odd person responds well to training and can get lean.

purely and simply, its genetics.

the problem is that most dont have these genetics so we have a ground swell of nay sayers ....its really just so they can feel good about their own inadequacies.

lets face it, if layne juiced, then he'd be holding more mass, stronger, and you'd see the odd sign such as gyno or acne or water bloat.

you dont see any of that...no extreme size, nothing really overly strong other than for a genetically gifted person, no obvious water retention..even in off season he looks pretty average.

i think he's giving a lesson to the haters..

look at some of the worlds top class sprinters..urine and blood tested dozens of times a year in and out of comp and they weigh a buck fifty but are ripped and look very muscular and are pretty strong.

There are literally thousands of wanna bes that take gear and still cant run as fast...or get as lean.

if u think that sprinting is still the domain of drug users, you'd be very wrong. NCAA im not so confident, but world stage, pretty clean.

so to the gh15 camp, explain that? theres loads mor examples. too many to list and too many to ignore. The gh15 camp just ignores it and makes ridiculous claims without basis or supporting evidence.

if it was a moderated debate then they'd be out with their tails between their legs, but unfortunately the mob rules on GB. in the real world we have intelligent people that can assess argument and determine what good evidence is and isnt, then make a decision.

its not a bunch of morons justifying their own existence and all slapping each other on the back saying "yeah, right on!"....and drowning out the facts.

[disco_stu]

his genetics are far too shit to be that big at that low bodyfat.

look at his joints, and his bone size - that is the ultimate deciding factor of how large a natural bodybody will get. it doesn't matter how high someone's natural testosterone levels are, nor their growth hormone levels, people will never escape their genetics without manipulating their genetics (i.e. injecting hormones).

someone with such a small pathetic frame isn't going to get 18 inch arms at 5% naturally, with completely full muscle bellies. hell, pros juiced to the gills had trouble doing that in the 1970s. anyone really think a natural is going to come into a show dry as hell, weighing 210 @ 5'10 and 5% bodyfat with completely full muscle bellies? not happening, especially with his shit genetics.

rofl. u can tell by looking at his joints and bone size?- u do realise that the variation between humans is in mm dont you?...and that variation is not a one to one relationship to deciding muscle mass potential?.

also, hormones dont manipulate genetics.. nothing does, unless u can do it in vitro or prior to...

and you can also tell that he has shit genetics?- how so?..what exactly is the DNA profile?- please point out which combination of arrangement puts him into this "shit genetics" class. As far as im aware, not even the experts have a category for "shit genetics". Please enlighten us all as your expertise appears impressive. What with all your logic and explanation. Educate us all.

(fuck stick..stand in line at the back of the GH15 train).

[disco_stu]

please shut the fuck up about hard work and dedication

almost everyone on this board is dedicated enough to get as big as they can naturally, i sincerely hope this helps

this line of reasoning is absolute, unfounded bullshit which is contradicted by evidence at every turn, and has been used for centuries in all aspects of life by ignorant, unhappy people who don't have the privilege of an education or, in many cases, a working brain

actually you are wrong. contradictory evidence can only occur if you have the same set of variables under the same conditions. Which we dont. We have a mish mash of anecdotes from hormone abusers and natural trainers. There is plenty of scientific studies that support that muscle growth does occur naturally, but there is  nothing at all about how far it can go.. absolutely nothing at all.

all we have is a bunch of self confessed experts saying a load of crap based on their inability to consider multiple variables and influencers yet they come up with a whole range of "conclusions"..and try to pass them off as fact.

[chess315]

anyway, you and i, being natural, are not the best people to judge these pics... can we get the hormone experts to weigh in?

you would be pulling teeth to look like that on juice alone unless had a1 genetics That u cant do on 1 gram of gear maybe tren if yoru luck at his height especially.

[Dr Dutch]

Terrific natural athlete.
He competes for the "Best Natty Ever" award with Skip LieCour and Branch Warren....

[Nomad]

rofl. u can tell by looking at his joints and bone size?- u do realise that the variation between humans is in mm dont you?...and that variation is not a one to one relationship to deciding muscle mass potential?.

also, hormones dont manipulate genetics.. nothing does, unless u can do it in vitro or prior to...

and you can also tell that he has shit genetics?- how so?..what exactly is the DNA profile?- please point out which combination of arrangement puts him into this "shit genetics" class. As far as im aware, not even the experts have a category for "shit genetics". Please enlighten us all as your expertise appears impressive. What with all your logic and explanation. Educate us all.

(fuck stick..stand in line at the back of the GH15 train).

Pretty sure the excess testosterone from steroids will flip a few switches in your genetic profile. That as well as that excess testosterone will forever enhance every muscle cell, enlarging the mitochondria past its normal natural size and etc.

I always wondered, Layne makes such a huge deal that he is natural, constantly throws bitchfits about being tested dozens of times and so on yet there is one test that will absolutely prove he is natural. All Layne has to do is agree to have a part of a muscle cut out for examination. If he is natural that would be easy to prove that way.

[Marshdogg]

Pretty sure the excess testosterone from steroids will flip a few switches in your genetic profile. That as well as that excess testosterone will forever enhance every muscle cell, enlarging the mitochondria past its normal natural size and etc.

I always wondered, Layne makes such a huge deal that he is natural, constantly throws bitchfits about being tested dozens of times and so on yet there is one test that will absolutely prove he is natural. All Layne has to do is agree to have a part of a muscle cut out for examination. If he is natural that would be easy to prove that way.

As much as I want to see that guy rat get exposed for the halo abusing shit he is, having a biopsy to prove a point is stupid.

Even if I had nothing to hide as a bodybuilder, I would never get it done. What is the point? To get scars for a clean conscience? Fuck that. In this day and age, no one gives a fuck about what the general masses have to say about them. They either melt down with non sequitars or hide their skeletons.