Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
September 16, 2014, 10:53:48 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
   Home   Help Login Register  
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Failing on bench, muscle imbalance?  (Read 1031 times)
Cashfan
Getbig III
***
Posts: 404



« on: January 21, 2012, 11:02:37 PM »

I've been failing on the bench long before my chest or tris feel truly fatigued. I'm thinking I have a muscle imbalance somewhere but cant think what it is.  A good set on flat bench for me is 275 for 8, not huge numbers I know.  Incline dumbell presses I can use the 115's for multiple sets of 6-7.  Seated dumbell shoulder presses 105's for sets of 6-7 as well.  I can hit just over 30 dips if Im fresh at a bodyweight of 245(permabulker).  4-5 inches off my chest is where I fail on bench, any ideas? 
Report to moderator   Logged
polychronopolous
Getbig V
*****
Posts: 10907


So David slew The Giant Philistine 1 Samuel 17


« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2012, 11:11:51 PM »

Sounds like you have extremely strong shoulders/front delts but average chest, triceps f you can rep 105 lb seated dumbbell presses (VERY impressive) and a "good" set on bench is only 275 for 8 reps (not really for your weight).

I would say there is a definite muscular imbalance favoring your shoulders or maybe you are just not built to have that really big bench which can be said for alot of people in the gym.

Report to moderator   Logged
Voland
Time Out
Getbig IV
*
Posts: 2620


when you go scat you never come back ;)


« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2012, 08:20:05 AM »

Use a closer grip. That'll make sure you're using your chest. Also work your lats more.
Report to moderator   Logged

Boundary Breaker
Montague
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 11922



« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2012, 10:38:44 AM »

I've been failing on the bench long before my chest or tris feel truly fatigued. I'm thinking I have a muscle imbalance somewhere but cant think what it is.  A good set on flat bench for me is 275 for 8, not huge numbers I know.  Incline dumbell presses I can use the 115's for multiple sets of 6-7.  Seated dumbell shoulder presses 105's for sets of 6-7 as well.  I can hit just over 30 dips if Im fresh at a bodyweight of 245(permabulker).  4-5 inches off my chest is where I fail on bench, any ideas? 


I'm not saying this is what's causing it, but it could be a matter of technique/form.
There is a proper way to bench, which includes more than just hand spacing and elbow positioning.
That's a big part of it, but so, too, is the rest of the body all the way down to the feet.

It's worth researching.
Articles and video tutorials are good, but it may be better if you can find someone who knows how to bench, and is observant and detailed enough to work with you.
Maybe even check out the power lifting board a few down from this one on the main page.
Report to moderator   Logged
chaos
Moderator
Getbig V
*****
Posts: 38925


Ron "There is no freedom of speech here" Avidan


« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2012, 11:02:31 AM »

What kind of #'s do you use for flyes?

Sounds like you are more concerned with how it feels in your chest rather than actual numbers, so what's your rep cadence like? Fast?
Report to moderator   Logged

Liar!!!!Filt!!!!
Cashfan
Getbig III
***
Posts: 404



« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2012, 11:43:28 AM »

Flys I can use the 50's if I still have gas in the tank.  Usually use the 40's at the end of my workout and burn out with higher rep sets, 10-12 reps.  Rep speed, call it 2 seconds down and as fast as I can push it up.  @Montague- Yeah, I should probably go work out at a PL gym and have them critique my form.  None of the online research seems to have helped my poundages any. However, pinching the shit out of my shoulder blades and bringing my elbows towards my body has markedly decreased shoulder pain.
Report to moderator   Logged
chaos
Moderator
Getbig V
*****
Posts: 38925


Ron "There is no freedom of speech here" Avidan


« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2012, 11:54:10 AM »

What is your flat DB press like? 40-50's is pretty light for flyes.
Report to moderator   Logged

Liar!!!!Filt!!!!
jpm101
Getbig IV
****
Gender: Male
Posts: 2553


« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2012, 11:56:59 AM »

Might want to focus on just the beginning push off (start/middle range) of the bench, for a while. If you have a PR (or A frame, etc), than so much the better. Could do these in a Smith because your just going to push for a short range. For full range, Smith is not always the best machine to use.

If your the type of guy who bounces the bar off the chest or just comes close to the chest each reps, than the pattern of benching will have to be relearned. Work the bench from the dead stop position, rather than taking the bar off a overhead support or having a guy hand the bar to you.

Set the pins (or whatever) at chest level, take your normal grip, and press the bar 4 to 5 inches up (don't know how long your arms are or natural leverage). If you do have a PR, you can set another pair of pins at the 4-5  inch mark, acting as stops. You want quick and strong reps, relearning to fire off the nerve paths from that dead stop starting position.  Do higher reps (10-12) to begin and a lighter weight. Want to set a new pattern of pushing off the chest. After each rep, pause at the bottom position for a couple of seconds, than begin another fast and strong rep.

Than, in a few more workout, start with the 10-12 reps range as more of a warmup. Adding extra weight as the sets progress. Give this style of training a few weeks to get adjusted to. Also practice your regular full range benches, in the same workout, after the dead stop work. The dead stop starting position can be an ego buster, because you will be using much less weight than normal in the bench. But you should gain more strength, workout to workout. That 275 should feel somewhat light after awhile.

Most BB'ers, with very good chest/pecs, will handle 230 to 260 for bench work (though a lot of them avoid any regular BB benching now days). Going for higher reps and more of a feel for the exercise. And a faster pace during the workout. 275 is a good number, if the reps are good reps. That magical 400 is not that common in the BB'ing world, no matter what the mags or video's try to tell you. In the Pl'ing world, even with lighter classes, fairly common. Good Luck

Report to moderator   Logged

F
local hero
Competitors
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 5391

......RULE BRITANIA......


« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2012, 09:30:13 AM »

Might want to focus on just the beginning push off (start/middle range) of the bench, for a while. If you have a PR (or A frame, etc), than so much the better. Could do these in a Smith because your just going to push for a short range. For full range, Smith is not always the best machine to use.

If your the type of guy who bounces the bar off the chest or just comes close to the chest each reps, than the pattern of benching will have to be relearned. Work the bench from the dead stop position, rather than taking the bar off a overhead support or having a guy hand the bar to you.

Set the pins (or whatever) at chest level, take your normal grip, and press the bar 4 to 5 inches up (don't know how long your arms are or natural leverage). If you do have a PR, you can set another pair of pins at the 4-5  inch mark, acting as stops. You want quick and strong reps, relearning to fire off the nerve paths from that dead stop starting position.  Do higher reps (10-12) to begin and a lighter weight. Want to set a new pattern of pushing off the chest. After each rep, pause at the bottom position for a couple of seconds, than begin another fast and strong rep.

Than, in a few more workout, start with the 10-12 reps range as more of a warmup. Adding extra weight as the sets progress. Give this style of training a few weeks to get adjusted to. Also practice your regular full range benches, in the same workout, after the dead stop work. The dead stop starting position can be an ego buster, because you will be using much less weight than normal in the bench. But you should gain more strength, workout to workout. That 275 should feel somewhat light after awhile.

Most BB'ers, with very good chest/pecs, will handle 230 to 260 for bench work (though a lot of them avoid any regular BB benching now days). Going for higher reps and more of a feel for the exercise. And a faster pace during the workout. 275 is a good number, if the reps are good reps. That magical 400 is not that common in the BB'ing world, no matter what the mags or video's try to tell you. In the Pl'ing world, even with lighter classes, fairly common. Good Luck



this is so true,,,, i only know a handfull of guys who go up to 4 plates, none of them are competitive bodybuilders either

i know a good few top amatures and 3 plates is usualy max, if not less
Report to moderator   Logged

TEAM NATURAL YATES
Cashfan
Getbig III
***
Posts: 404



« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2012, 10:55:38 AM »

I tried some dead stop work yesterday after pre exhausting with flies.  Very different feeling workout, no question there.  My pecs felt like they were going to tear in half by the end of each set.  My goal is to hit 3 plates for 10 reps.  I have no interest in heavy singles.  @Chaos- Not sure what kind of poundages I can use for flat dumbell press.  Im guessing it would be fairly close to the weight I use for incline Dumbell press(115's), probably a little more if I trained it.
Report to moderator   Logged
Yev33
Getbig III
***
Posts: 847


« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2012, 04:50:14 PM »

Have you tried floor presses?

Report to moderator   Logged
jpm101
Getbig IV
****
Gender: Male
Posts: 2553


« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2012, 11:33:40 PM »

Floor presses do have a place in a bench workout scheme, but they hit more of the middle range of the BP. With a dead stop position, at the extreme bottom position (on or slightly above the chest) , the important start of the press is worked strongly.  

There are three phases to the bench (as most other movements, even squats & Dl's) which , to my view, are worked way much better in a power Rack. A PR gives better opportunity to work on the weaker link of any lift. Though I would try floor presses, but there is no way for me to squeeze under the bar when 45's are used. I've had guy's hand me the bar, and did floor presses that way but I never got a good feel from that exercise. If it works for anyone else, than all the power to them.

In regular benching, might suggest, that if BB'ers draw their knee's up and above their body's (90 degrees), rather than having them planted on the floor/bench, they may develop more focus on the chest it's self. Same thing when doing DB benching & flys.

CashFan:  The push off, from the chest, is meant to be a separate part of your regular chest workout. Including pre-exhaust before it, misses the whole point of the push off chest movement. And like most other BB'ers, there is the danger of being too caught up with the weight on the bar/DB. Because using impressive weight, in a workout, does not always guarantee impressive muscular development. But how you preform the  exercises does. But if you want to be somewhere between a BB'er and power lifter, than go for it. There is a certain satisfaction in going  heavy and trying to break a PR or even a gym record. Good luck.

Report to moderator   Logged

F
Yev33
Getbig III
***
Posts: 847


« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2012, 12:38:30 AM »

I have been doing floor presses in the past year and I love the way they hit the triceps. As far as the set up goes, I put the bar on the lowest hooks in the power rack and lie on the floor underneath it. Come to a completely dead stop when the elbows hit the floor and rest the bar in that position for 1-2 seconds, drive hard out of the bottom. 

Actually have done them both with my regular bench press grip and a narrower grip, both versions worked great. Sometime in the spring I am planning on running the floor press as a main movement  instead of a supplemental one for around 12 weeks and really try to push the poundage.
Report to moderator   Logged
WOOO
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 15909


Mr. Unpopular


« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2012, 05:38:01 PM »

I have been doing floor presses in the past year and I love the way they hit the triceps. As far as the set up goes, I put the bar on the lowest hooks in the power rack and lie on the floor underneath it. Come to a completely dead stop when the elbows hit the floor and rest the bar in that position for 1-2 seconds, drive hard out of the bottom. 

Actually have done them both with my regular bench press grip and a narrower grip, both versions worked great. Sometime in the spring I am planning on running the floor press as a main movement  instead of a supplemental one for around 12 weeks and really try to push the poundage.

i'll bump this... floor presses are amazing and easy... I do them in a power rack because i do not have a spot but they are still awesome for focusing the press on your pecks
Report to moderator   Logged
Montague
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 11922



« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2012, 05:47:18 PM »

i'll bump this... floor presses are amazing and easy... I do them in a power rack because i do not have a spot but they are still awesome for focusing the press on your pecks


Really?
I've heard others say this, and I'm not "challenging" you; I've just always associated that part of the ROM more with triceps.
To me, the chest is most in play during those first six inches or so of the ascent, with the tri's kicking in as ancillary muscles farther up - at about the starting point of FP's.

Report to moderator   Logged
WOOO
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 15909


Mr. Unpopular


« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2012, 07:18:55 PM »

true... triceps are involved in the lock out but the middle of the range of motion is more chest than shoulder or tri... especially because in a floor press you cannot arch your back so you naturally bring the weight down in a correct range of motion to the sternum....

i suppose again it may depend on structure... but imo floor presses are a valuable movement...
Report to moderator   Logged
chaos
Moderator
Getbig V
*****
Posts: 38925


Ron "There is no freedom of speech here" Avidan


« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2012, 08:50:30 PM »

Reason you feel it in the chest so much is the initial "explosion" off the floor heavily involved the pecs and starting from a dead stop, relaxed position and exploding like that hits the pecs hard.
Report to moderator   Logged

Liar!!!!Filt!!!!
Yev33
Getbig III
***
Posts: 847


« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2012, 12:22:37 AM »

Reason you feel it in the chest so much is the initial "explosion" off the floor heavily involved the pecs and starting from a dead stop, relaxed position and exploding like that hits the pecs hard.

That's actually the main reason I love the floor presses so much. Your body instinctively forces you to explosively press out of the bottom position, works almost like an olympic lift variation for your chest/shoulders/tris'.
Report to moderator   Logged
wes
Competitors
Getbig V
*****
Gender: Male
Posts: 26615


The Power Cosmic


« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2012, 07:52:03 AM »

Drop the benches and do Smith Inclines.....thank me later.
Report to moderator   Logged
chaos
Moderator
Getbig V
*****
Posts: 38925


Ron "There is no freedom of speech here" Avidan


« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2012, 08:43:49 AM »

Roll Eyes
Report to moderator   Logged

Liar!!!!Filt!!!!
Cashfan
Getbig III
***
Posts: 404



« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2012, 12:02:59 PM »

Drop the benches and do Smith Inclines.....thank me later.
  I have yet to find an exercise where using training wheels made it feel any better or safer.  Just my 2 cents.
Report to moderator   Logged
king
Getbig III
***
Posts: 475



« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2012, 01:08:51 PM »

Drop the benches and do Smith Inclines.....thank me later.

Wes (or anyone with an opinion), do you incorporate any flat or incline bench in your chest workout? I'm not a huge fan of flat bench but I feel like the incline bench hits my chest the best out of all the exercises i've tried. What is the advantage to the incline smith over regular incline bench? Thanks.


King
Report to moderator   Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Theme created by Egad Community. Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!