Jones refused heavyweight fight.

[GraniteCityDon]

  No one owns Shogun like that. Even the most talented fighter ever would not be able to destroy Shogun without any effort considering that Shogun is one of the top 3 LHWs ever and had 10 X more experience than Jones when they fought. Even if Jones is the most talented fighter ever, he should at least have struggled to beat him given that Shogun is one of the greatest ever and had 12 years of professional MMA experience compared to Jones who was neophyte. I don't care how gifted you are, a noob fighter is not going to toy with Shogun like that on only talent. Rampage and Machida are also top LHWs with years(plural) of fighting experience and they had nothing for Jones.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

Shogun looked just as bad as he did in the Griffin fight, earlier in his career - minus the injuries - we would never have seen performances like that from him. Jones was unbelievably impressive in that fight and not just because of his reach / size, but because he fought a great fight against a man that should not have gotten in there with him. Im not saying Shogun will beat him in future but there's no way i see him folding the way he did.

Simply put, whatever you think Jones is the best LHW we've seen and all legacies are built on the blood of fallen champions.

The recurring theme to these discussions is that once people dismiss your statements and offer different opinions you seem to meltdown and ruin them. Cant you just converse in a civil manner without dragging everything down around you? Highly regarded posters like Chuteboxe dont come here anymore so we make the best with what we have, and whilst it was initially fun toying with you im sure we are all sick of it now.

[coltrane]

Exactly.

Honestly, I think the real reason Jones is so dominate is because there hasn't been a LHW freak show such as him to come thru the ranks in a long time.  The past LHW champs dealt with opponents there own basic size and haven't had to deal with such a long reach advantage. 

This being said, reach can be overcome.  No one has done it yet.  Personally I think speed is the key to beating the reach.  Speed is what Rashad Evans has.  If he can get in on Jones and strike, he's got a real shot.

But to say Jones can't or shouldn't be fighting at 205 is pure bullshit.  If weight is made that's all that matters. 

[suckmymuscle]

Shogun looked just as bad as he did in the Griffin fight, earlier in his career - minus the injuries - we would never have seen performances like that from him. Jones was unbelievably impressive in that fight and not just because of his reach / size, but because he fought a great fight against a man that should not have gotten in there with him. Im not saying Shogun will beat him in future but there's no way i see him folding the way he did.

Simply put, whatever you think Jones is the best LHW we've seen and all legacies are built on the blood of fallen champions.

The recurring theme to these discussions is that once people dismiss your statements and offer different opinions you seem to meltdown and ruin them. Cant you just converse in a civil manner without dragging everything down around you? Highly regarded posters like Chuteboxe dont come here anymore so we make the best with what we have, and whilst it was initially fun toying with you im sure we are all sick of it now.

  I knew you would say that. Three things:

  1. Shogun hadn't fought in over a year when he fought Griffin for the first time, and had come back from surgery on his knee and back. This was not the case this time. Shogun wasn't rusty, and he went through only a minor meniscus procedure and not a major knee surgery like he had the first time.

  2. Shogun didn't get even nearly as dominated against Griffin like he did against Jones. Also, Jones destroys all top LHWs with ease. Griffin has never dominated anyone, not even a rusty Shogun coming back from surgery. He beat Shogun decisively, but it was by no means a domination. Jones did to Shogun what a grown man would do to a toddler. Complete domination.

  3. You are an arrogant moron who is despearate to prove that you are as intelligent as me, which is why every time you answer one of my posts, you start by saying how I "know nothing", or how "everyone laughs at you", or how I don't know shit about MMA, etc. Even if you knew more MMA than me, I would still be overall much smarter than you. MMA is not rocket science, after all. This is why it's laughable how you say that you are trying to have a "civil" conversation with me, and yet you have been insulting me and saying I don't know shit from day one. "Civil" my ass! Hypocrite.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[suckmymuscle]

Exactly.

Honestly, I think the real reason Jones is so dominate is because there hasn't been a LHW freak show such as him to come thru the ranks in a long time.  The past LHW champs dealt with opponents there own basic size and haven't had to deal with such a long reach advantage.  

This being said, reach can be overcome.  No one has done it yet.  Personally I think speed is the key to beating the reach.  Speed is what Rashad Evans has.  If he can get in on Jones and strike, he's got a real shot.

But to say Jones can't or shouldn't be fighting at 205 is pure bullshit.  If weight is made that's all that matters.  

  CockTrain, you have zero intelligence and self-reliance. You are GraniteCityDon's bitch and agree with everything he and Geo says. Keep saying that making weight is all that matters. At least you seem convinced. Not really.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[coltrane]

 CockTrain, you have zero intelligence and self-reliance. You are GraniteCityDon's bitch and agree with everything he and Geo says. Keep saying that making weight is all that matters. At least you seem convinced. Not really.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

You're a moron. 

Period.

[GraniteCityDon]

 I knew you would say that. Three things:

  1. Shogun hadn't fought in over a year when he fought Griffin for the first time, and had come back from surgery on his knee and back. This was not the case this time. Shogun wasn't rusty, and he went through only a minor meniscus procedure and not a major knee surgery like he had the first time.

  2. Shogun didn't get even nearly as dominated against Griffin like he did against Jones. Also, Jones destroys all top LHWs with ease. Griffin has never dominated anyone, not even a rusty Shogun coming back from surgery. He beat Shogun decisively, but it was by no means a domination. Jones did to Shogun what a grown man would do to a toddler. Complete domination.

  3. You are an arrogant moron who is despearate to prove that you are as intelligent as me, which is why every time you answer one of my posts, you start by saying how I "know nothing", or how "everyone laughs at you", or how I don't know shit about MMA, etc. Even if you knew more MMA than me, I would still be overall much smarter than you. MMA is not rocket science, after all. This is why it's laughable how you say that you are trying to have a "civil" conversation with me, and yet you have been insulting me and saying I don't know shit from day one. "Civil" my ass! Hypocrite.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

OK in response since i knew you would offer this in return:

1. Time lapse between Shoguns last fight in Pride & his UFC debut: 7 months. Time lapse between beating Machida for the title & being beaten by Bones: 10 months. The knee surgery was always a factor against a mid carder like Griffin and it was far and away his worst showing (IMO the 2nd being the Coleman fight some 16 months later), but both times - regardless of the surgery - he returned half the fighter he was. To say youre not rusty after a 10 month lay off, regardless of training sessions, is absurd.

2. Bones has an incredible talent for making people look distinctly average but to say Griffin didnt dominate the fight is once again absurd. Shogun was never in it and had it gone to the judges would have lost by landslide.

3. Prove i am as smart as you?! I would wager my intelligence against yours, the way you analyse every post so that you can conscientiously format what seems like an intelligent answer (thus attempting to appear intelligent to the masses) is attention seeking at its finest. I choose to get my responses across in a universal manner, i dont need to fill a page with multi syllable words in order to have a great discussion. I recognise that, yes, you are evidently above average intelligence and would have liked to have had detailed discussions about a variety of subjects with you. The level of communication is at times refreshing however from the off you have tried to impose a sense of superiority which is what gets my back up the most.

[Geo]

I've found it a lot easier to read the guys post with a certain degree of sympathy and understanding....

people who have to be right are generally the ones that are more miserable in life both on and off the internet !@

[BILL ANVIL]

I personally dont have problems with a fighter making a certain weight although i'd like to see it on the day of the fight. Rumble Johnson was a clear 205'er fighting at 170, he may have settled better at 185 but overall the guy is just too big to diet down to these ridiculous weights and it eventually cost him losses and his UFC career. It may be the same with Jones if he tries to go any lower.

I dont think theres any chance of Jones making 185 but if he could, then wheres the problem? Everyone focuses too much on the size aspect and not the fighting aspect, im something of an optimist and like to believe the bigger man doesnt always win  

i was being sarcastic is all, to the people who think if its within the rules than its totally acceptable which it is, but it wont garner optimum respect. Sure, if a guy can cut a shit ton of weight and beat up smaller men than more power to him but really, there is no honor in destroying the weak. I just think beating up smaller man isn't as impressive as beating up the bigger fighters, but thats just me. Some people find beating down smaller fellas more impressive for some reason, but to each his own I guess lol.

Rumble Johnson beating on that poor little asian fella was hard to watch, like a grown man beating up a 7th grader lol. But it was within the rules I guess ..

[suckmymuscle]

OK in response since i knew you would offer this in return:

1. Time lapse between Shoguns last fight in Pride & his UFC debut: 7 months. Time lapse between beating Machida for the title & being beaten by Bones: 10 months. The knee surgery was always a factor against a mid carder like Griffin and it was far and away his worst showing (IMO the 2nd being the Coleman fight some 16 months later), but both times - regardless of the surgery - he returned half the fighter he was. To say youre not rusty after a 10 month lay off, regardless of training sessions, is absurd.

2. Bones has an incredible talent for making people look distinctly average but to say Griffin didnt dominate the fight is once again absurd. Shogun was never in it and had it gone to the judges would have lost by landslide.

3. Prove i am as smart as you?! I would wager my intelligence against yours, the way you analyse every post so that you can conscientiously format what seems like an intelligent answer (thus attempting to appear intelligent to the masses) is attention seeking at its finest. I choose to get my responses across in a universal manner, i dont need to fill a page with multi syllable words in order to have a great discussion. I recognise that, yes, you are evidently above average intelligence and would have liked to have had detailed discussions about a variety of subjects with you. The level of communication is at times refreshing however from the off you have tried to impose a sense of superiority which is what gets my back up the most.

  Shogun was coming from PRIDE and had to:

  1. Adapt to the cage.

  2. Adapt to new rules.

  3. Fight with a knee that was still recovering.

  And you cannot compare the fight with Griffin to the fight with Jones. Come fucking on! Shogun was able to at least devolve some strikes on Griffin and scored some points. And that was a submission loss and not a TKO. Shogun getting owned in a Muay Thai match by a neophyte fighter like Jones is just ridiculous. Shogun couldn't do anything against Jones.

  As for surgery, you are so wrong about this it's not even funny. When he fought Griffin he had major knee surgery; when he fought Jones he was at almost 100%. Apples and oranges. You can't possibly say that Shogun was physically handicapped in the fight against Jones like he was in the fight against Griffin. Give me a fucking break, dude.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[suckmymuscle]

You're a moron. 

Period.

  And yet you are the one who is known as "imbecile"...

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[Geo]

i was being sarcastic is all, to the people who think if its within the rules than its totally acceptable which it is, but it wont garner optimum respect. Sure, if a guy can cut a shit ton of weight and beat up smaller men than more power to him but really, there is no honor in destroying the weak.was hard to watch, like a grown man beating up a 7th grader lol. But it was within the rules I guess ..

why don't we find out what jones enters the cage weighing and why don't we find out what everyone else enters the cage weighing before you start complaing about this "size advantage" ?

 

[Archer77]

why don't we find out what jones enters the cage weighing and why don't we find out what everyone else enters the cage weighing before you start complaing about this "size advantage" ?

 

I think you are missing the point by dwelling on only Jones weight.  It wasn't just about weight but his overall size advantage.  Statistically, Jones is significantly larger compared to his competition in every way that matters.

[coltrane]

  And yet you are the one who is known as "imbecile"...

SUCKMYMUSCLE

OOhhh. good one.   

At least I know it's VITOR Belfort.  Not "VICTOR" like you.  This just shows your comments should be given little weight.

[GraniteCityDon]

OOhhh. good one.   

At least I know it's VITOR Belfort.  Not "VICTOR" like you.  This just shows your comments should be given little weight.

oh God not another weight debate! 

[suckmymuscle]

OOhhh. good one.

 

  Almost as good as you typing: "You are a  moron. Period.". Now that was a good one!

At least I know it's VITOR Belfort.  Not "VICTOR" like you.  This just shows your comments should be given little weight.

  Yeah, because names have something to do with MMA knowledge. It is comments like this that show why you are known simply as the imbecile. And "Victor" or Vitor, it doesen't make any difference except that you are desperate to find anything to criticize.

 Seriously, dude, go suck on Jones balls and jack off to Griffin vs Bonnar, you TUF noob.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[coltrane]

 

  Almost as good as you typing: "You are a  moron. Period.". Now that was a good one!

  Yeah, because names have something to do with MMA knowledge. It is comments like this that show why you are known simply as the imbecile. And "Victor" or Vitor, it doesen't make any difference except that you are desperate to find anything to criticize.

 Seriously, dude, go suck on Jones balls and jack off to Griffin vs Bonnar, you TUF noob.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

I love how I get so under your skin Victor.  It's quite easy to do actually. 

[Geo]

I think you are missing the point by dwelling on only Jones weight.  It wasn't just about weight but his overall size advantage.  Statistically, Jones is significantly larger compared to his competition in every way that matters.

I dunno..

last time I checked wieght is the ONLY issue when it come to weight class's ..

but you're right though..

I think it's just a matter of time before the UFC implements hiegth and reach class's too !


 

[coltrane]

Plain and simple is Jones is a freak of nature with his limbs/reach.  He makes weight though and that's all that really matters.

He has stated he'd like to fight a HW and test himself.  I would like to see that. 

[GraniteCityDon]

the way i see it is simple: If a guy wants to fight you on the street or in a bar youre not gonna turn around and say, "sorry mate i cant because youre not in my weight class" are you?!

Just get in there and belt fuck out of whomever is opposing you like the good ol days of the open weight tournaments.

[suckmymuscle]

I love how I get so under your skin Victor.  It's quite easy to do actually. 

  Actually, you're the one who throws hissy fits every time I post. Recall this meltdown of yours on my Machida vs Jones recap thread?

   Re: Jones Vs Machida: Biggest Bust Ever....
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2011, 10:01:24 PM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SMM stfu.  Youre sucha  jones hater it's not even funny.  And he was never almost out in the fight at all.  He got tagged and it barely phased him. 


SUCKMYMUSCLE

[coltrane]

  Actually, you're the one who throws hissy fits every time I post. Recall this meltdown of yours on my Machida vs Jones recap thread?

   Re: Jones Vs Machida: Biggest Bust Ever....
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2011, 10:01:24 PM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SMM stfu.  Youre sucha  jones hater it's not even funny.  And he was never almost out in the fight at all.  He got tagged and it barely phased him. 


SUCKMYMUSCLE

The BIGGEST meltdowns occur when you spend countless amounts of time scrolling thru someone's ancient posts just to make a "meltdown" comment.

Do you need anymore ownings Victor?

[suckmymuscle]

The BIGGEST meltdowns occur when you spend countless amounts of time scrolling thru someone's ancient posts just to make a "meltdown" comment.

Do you need anymore ownings Victor?

  You are such a sore loser . COCK.TRAIN.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[coltrane]

  You are such a sore loser . COCK.TRAIN.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

Love you too buddy.   

[gracie bjj]

he might do okay, bj penn fought machida at 205 and bj was a naturally lighter guy and 5 inches shorter. bj gained weight/fat and bulked up and the fight went to a decision for machida. jones may suprise people, on the other hand a huge right hand from guys like reem, dos and cain could put his lights out quick. theres a huge difference imo from getting hit by a lhw then theres is getting creamed by a monster like overeem. overeem has gotten so massive he doesnt look natural

[GraniteCityDon]

overeem has gotten so massive he doesnt look natural

He isnt, no way in hell hes roid free. Human beings do not look like that without assistance and anyone who claims hes drug free should just stop posting online, period. I have to give him props for the way he is winning as he is crushing everyone right now but ive seen him lose too many times to consider him the best in the world, i do not buy into that hype at all.