Author Topic: U.S. does not believe Iran is trying to build nuclear bomb  (Read 1334 times)

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U.S. does not believe Iran is trying to build nuclear bomb
« on: February 24, 2012, 05:41:57 AM »
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-iran-intel-20120224,0,5827032.story


The latest U.S. intelligence report indicates Iran is pursuing research that could enable it to build a nuclear weapon, but that it has not sought to do so.

By Ken Dilanian, Los Angeles Times
 
February 23, 2012, 6:11 p.m.
Reporting from Washington— As U.S. and Israeli officials talk publicly about the prospect of a military strike against Iran's nuclear program, one fact is often overlooked: U.S. intelligence agencies don't believe Iran is actively trying to build an atomic bomb.

A highly classified U.S. intelligence assessment circulated to policymakers early last year largely affirms that view, originally made in 2007.
Both reports, known as national intelligence estimates, conclude that Tehran halted efforts to develop and build a nuclear warhead in 2003.

The most recent report, which represents the consensus of 16 U.S. intelligence agencies, indicates that Iran is pursuing research that could put it in a position to build a weapon, but that it has not sought to do so.

Although Iran continues to enrich uranium at low levels, U.S. officials say they have not seen evidence that has caused them to significantly revise that judgment. Senior U.S. officials say Israel does not dispute the basic intelligence or analysis.

But Israel appears to have a lower threshold for action than Washington. It regards Iran as a threat to its existence and says it will not allow Iran to become capable of building and delivering a nuclear weapon. Some Israeli officials have raised the prospect of a military strike to stop Iran before it's too late.


cont.

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Re: U.S. does not believe Iran is trying to build nuclear bomb
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2012, 12:22:02 PM »
Santorum, Romney, Gingrich  fail.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/25/wo...?_r=2&emc=eta1
 




WASHINGTON — Even as the United Nations’ nuclear watchdog said in a new report Friday that Iran had accelerated its uranium enrichment program, American intelligence analysts continue to believe that there is no hard evidence that Iran has decided to build a nuclear bomb.
 
Recent assessments by American spy agencies are broadly consistent with a 2007 intelligence finding that concluded that Iran had abandoned its nuclear weapons program years earlier, according to current and former American officials. The officials said that assessment was largely reaffirmed in a 2010 National Intelligence Estimate, and that it remains the consensus view of America’s 16 intelligence agencies.

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Re: U.S. does not believe Iran is trying to build nuclear bomb
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2012, 12:28:40 PM »

A highly classified U.S. intelligence assessment circulated to policymakers early last year largely affirms that view, originally made in 2007. Both reports, known as national intelligence estimates, conclude that Tehran halted efforts to develop and build a nuclear warhead in 2003.

The most recent report, which represents the consensus of 16 U.S. intelligence agencies, indicates that Iran is pursuing research that could put it in a position to build a weapon, but that it has not sought to do so.


How did this reporter obtain a "highly classified U.S. intelligence assessment"?  And if this is based on a 2007 assessment, it's not indicative of efforts in 2012. 

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Re: U.S. does not believe Iran is trying to build nuclear bomb
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2012, 12:47:17 PM »
How did this reporter obtain a "highly classified U.S. intelligence assessment"?  And if this is based on a 2007 assessment, it's not indicative of efforts in 2012.  

From the first article.


A highly classified U.S. intelligence assessment circulated to policymakers early last year largely affirms that view, originally made in 2007.

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Re: U.S. does not believe Iran is trying to build nuclear bomb
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2012, 12:49:57 PM »
From the first article.


A highly classified U.S. intelligence assessment circulated to policymakers early last year largely affirms that view, originally made in 2007.

I have the same question about how the reporter obtained a "highly classified" assessment.  (More of a rhetorical question.) 

What does "largely affirms" mean?  Does that mean they're only make a "small" effort?  None at all?

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Re: U.S. does not believe Iran is trying to build nuclear bomb
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2012, 12:58:07 PM »
I have the same question about how the reporter obtained a "highly classified" assessment.  (More of a rhetorical question.)  

What does "largely affirms" mean?  Does that mean they're only make a "small" effort?  None at all?

The most recent report, which represents the consensus of 16 U.S. intelligence agencies, indicates that ,Iran is pursuing research that could put it in a position to build a weapon but that it has not sought to do so.

Although Iran continues to enrich uranium at low levels, U.S. officials say they have not seen evidence that has caused them to significantly revise that judgment. Senior U.S. officials say Israel does not dispute the basic intelligence or analysis.



I think that means that they havent put any effort into building a weapon. At this stage they dont even have all the information neccessary  to put them on that path. Regardless, there are alot more eyes on Irans intentions then is reported  here and I think the threat level is way overplayed by politicians who use fear tactics for there own benefit.

ie, Bachmann: Iran is months away from bulding a bomb.

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Re: U.S. does not believe Iran is trying to build nuclear bomb
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2012, 01:10:13 PM »
The most recent report, which represents the consensus of 16 U.S. intelligence agencies, indicates that ,Iran is pursuing research that could put it in a position to build a weapon but that it has not sought to do so.

Although Iran continues to enrich uranium at low levels, U.S. officials say they have not seen evidence that has caused them to significantly revise that judgment. Senior U.S. officials say Israel does not dispute the basic intelligence or analysis.



I think that means that they havent put any effort into building a weapon. At this stage they dont even have all the information neccessary  to put them on that path. Regardless, there are alot more eyes on Irans intentions then is reported  here and I think the threat level is way overplayed by politicians who use fear tactics for there own benefit.

ie, Bachmann: Iran is months away from bulding a bomb.

So the "highly classified" report "largely confirms" they are not trying to build a weapon and they are pursuing research to put them in position to build a weapon but haven't built it yet, and this confirms they are not trying to build a nuclear bomb?  You really believe that?

Why in the world would they be "pursuing research that could put it in a position to build a weapon" if they didn't intend to build a weapon? 

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Re: U.S. does not believe Iran is trying to build nuclear bomb
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2012, 01:18:21 PM »
if you wanna fight iran, dress up as a hiker, go over there, and get all rowdy.

if you want to sit home, jerk off to male/donkey porn, and cry that we need to bomb everyone FOX news hates, then your opinion doesn't matter.

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Re: U.S. does not believe Iran is trying to build nuclear bomb
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2012, 01:34:29 PM »
So the "highly classified" report "largely confirms" they are not trying to build a weapon and they are pursuing research to put them in position to build a weapon but haven't built it yet, and this confirms they are not trying to build a nuclear bomb?  You really believe that?

Why in the world would they be "pursuing research that could put it in a position to build a weapon" if they didn't intend to build a weapon?  

Highly calssified reports never found their out to the public before? So what you're saying is that the intelligence is not correct and that they have a bomb or are in the process of making one?

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Re: U.S. does not believe Iran is trying to build nuclear bomb
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2012, 02:06:08 PM »
So the "highly classified" report "largely confirms" they are not trying to build a weapon and they are pursuing research to put them in position to build a weapon but haven't built it yet, and this confirms they are not trying to build a nuclear bomb?  You really believe that?

Why in the world would they be "pursuing research that could put it in a position to build a weapon" if they didn't intend to build a weapon? 
You do realize there are lots of other uses of Nuclear technology other than weapons right?
Im not saying this for a fact - but they could be pursuing the tech to modernize their country, like countless others have done.
Yes they're pursuing tech that COULD be made into weapons. COULD be turned into weapons is not a viable reason to fuck with another Countries affairs.

IMHO - we should take no action until we are dead certain they are actively building nuclear WEAPONS, not just working on nuclear technology. Who are we to say theyre not allowed to have top level nuclear power in their country?
Israel is the driving force behind this - because they fear for their own demise (which I understand).
However, Israel has also been saying this same shit for decades. Israel is more than capable of taking care of themselves. Not to mention theyre more than likely jumping the gun again.

I feel like the whole Iran issue is being blown way out of proportion, and we (the citizens) are paying the price (at the pump).
The other issue, is even IF Iran manages to weaponize plutonium (theyre far from that), how are they going to deliver it? Suicide Nuke bomber? Cause they dont have a weapon system capable of delivering that payload.

Again - we shouldnt be intervening in their affairs until we know for a fact that theyre building a nuclear weapon capable of posing a threat to us. Sanctioning them when they arent even capable of actually building the weapon is way overkill and its no wonder theyre reacting the way they are.

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Re: U.S. does not believe Iran is trying to build nuclear bomb
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2012, 03:18:16 PM »
You do realize there are lots of other uses of Nuclear technology other than weapons right?
Im not saying this for a fact - but they could be pursuing the tech to modernize their country, like countless others have done.
Yes they're pursuing tech that COULD be made into weapons. COULD be turned into weapons is not a viable reason to fuck with another Countries affairs.

IMHO - we should take no action until we are dead certain they are actively building nuclear WEAPONS, not just working on nuclear technology. Who are we to say theyre not allowed to have top level nuclear power in their country?
Israel is the driving force behind this - because they fear for their own demise (which I understand).
However, Israel has also been saying this same shit for decades. Israel is more than capable of taking care of themselves. Not to mention theyre more than likely jumping the gun again.

I feel like the whole Iran issue is being blown way out of proportion, and we (the citizens) are paying the price (at the pump).
The other issue, is even IF Iran manages to weaponize plutonium (theyre far from that), how are they going to deliver it? Suicide Nuke bomber? Cause they dont have a weapon system capable of delivering that payload.

Again - we shouldnt be intervening in their affairs until we know for a fact that theyre building a nuclear weapon capable of posing a threat to us. Sanctioning them when they arent even capable of actually building the weapon is way overkill and its no wonder theyre reacting the way they are.

Yes I understand their intentions could be entirely legitimate.  But I'd have to stick my head in the sand to believe that. 

This is the same country that provided weapons to insurgents who killed Americans in Iraq.  The same country that calls us The Great Satan.  The same country that has a leader who says the Holocaust didn't happen and would like to wipe Israel (our ally) off the planet.  It would be foolish to conclude they have nothing but good intentions. 

And who are we?  We're the biggest, baddest kid on the block who can do something to prevent a nut from having access to a nuclear weapon in the most volatile part of the world. 

It also isn't as simple as letting Israel take care of itself.  If Israel engages in overt military action against Iran it could result in full scale war involving multiple countries in the Middle East. 

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Re: U.S. does not believe Iran is trying to build nuclear bomb
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2012, 04:30:32 PM »
Yes I understand their intentions could be entirely legitimate.  But I'd have to stick my head in the sand to believe that.  

This is the same country that provided weapons to insurgents who killed Americans in Iraq.  The same country that calls us The Great Satan.  The same country that has a leader who says the Holocaust didn't happen and would like to wipe Israel (our ally) off the planet.  It would be foolish to conclude they have nothing but good intentions.  

And who are we?  We're the biggest, baddest kid on the block who can do something to prevent a nut from having access to a nuclear weapon in the most volatile part of the world.  

It also isn't as simple as letting Israel take care of itself.  If Israel engages in overt military action against Iran it could result in full scale war involving multiple countries in the Middle East.  

Its interesting that you don't show as much skepticism when the media tells you the things you say here as much as you do when the media says US intelligence reports they aren't anywhere near making a bomb. Just sayin.

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Re: U.S. does not believe Iran is trying to build nuclear bomb
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2012, 04:43:41 PM »
Its interesting that you don't show as much skepticism when the media tells you the things you say here as much as you do when the media says US intelligence reports they aren't anywhere near making a bomb. Just sayin.

I didn't expect you to address the merits of what I said.  No surprise there. 

And I'm not relying on what the media told me.  I'm relying on my own experiences, reading, common sense, etc.   

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Re: U.S. does not believe Iran is trying to build nuclear bomb
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2012, 04:46:39 PM »

It also isn't as simple as letting Israel take care of itself.  If Israel engages in overt military action against Iran it could result in full scale war involving multiple countries in the Middle East. 

They must be reading the board.  lol

Israeli attack on Iran might pull U.S. into new war
By Robert Burns
AP National Security Writer
POSTED: 09:30 a.m. HST, Feb 25, 2012
LAST UPDATED: 10:53 a.m. HST, Feb 25, 2012

WASHINGTON >> An Israeli pre-emptive attack on Iran's nuclear sites could draw the U.S. into a new Mideast conflict, a prospect dreaded by a war-weary Pentagon wary of new entanglements.

That could mean pressing into service the top tier of American firepower — warplanes, warships, special operations forces and possibly airborne infantry — with unpredictable outcomes in one of the world's most volatile regions.

"Israel can commence a war with Iran, but it may well take U.S. involvement to conclude it," says Karim Sadjadpour, a Middle East specialist at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.

An armed clash with Iran is far from certain. Diplomacy backed by increasingly tough economic penalties is still seen by the United States and much of the rest of the world as worth pursuing for now, not least because the other options — going to war or simply doing nothing — are considered more risky.

Israel, however, worries that Iran soon could enter a "zone of immunity" in which enough of its nuclear materials are beyond the reach of Israeli air power so that Iran could not be stopped, or perhaps could be stopped only by superior American firepower.

If Israel's American-made strike planes managed to penetrate Iranian air space and bomb Iran's main nuclear facilities, some of which are underground, then Iran would be expected to retaliate in any number of ways. That possibly could include the firing of Shahab-3 ballistic missiles at Tel Aviv or other Israeli targets.

Iran might take a less direct approach, relying on its Hezbollah allies in Lebanon or Hamas militants in Gaza to hit Israel with missiles from closer range.

Iran also might block the Strait of Hormuz, a key transit route for the world's oil tankers. It could attack nearby Bahrain, home to the U.S. Navy's 5th Fleet. In either of these scenarios, the U.S. military almost certainly would hit back, possibly with strikes against the Iranian navy or land targets.

Michael O'Hanlon, a defense analyst at the Brookings Institution, sees a chance that the U.S. could largely stay out of the fight if Israel struck first. If Iran's air defenses managed to knock down an Israeli fighter pilot, however, U.S. special operations forces might be sent to rescue him, he said.

If the U.S. spotted Iran preparing to fire a ballistic missile at Israel in a retaliatory act, "it's possible we would decide to take that missile out," O'Hanlon said. "I would bet against most other direct American involvement."

Iran's response to an Israeli pre-emptive strike is unpredictable. Iran's defense minister, in a warning broadcast Saturday on state-run television, said a strike by "the Zionist regime will undoubtedly lead to the collapse of this regime." Gen. Ahmad Vahidi did not say what type of action Iran would take should Israel attack.

Uncertainty about Iranian retaliation, as well as the cascade of potential consequences if the U.S. got drawn into the conflict, is at the core of U.S. officials' rationale for publicly casting doubt on the wisdom of Israeli military action now.

Gen. Martin Dempsey, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, bluntly made the point last weekend. He told CNN's "Fareed Zakaria GPS" that the retaliation equation is "the reason that we think that it's not prudent at this point to decide to attack Iran" and "that's been our counsel to our allies, the Israelis, well-known, well-documented." He said he doubts Israel has been persuaded by Washington's pleadings.

Depending on the type and scale of the Iranian reaction to an Israeli strike, and whether it included attacks on U.S. forces or bases, President Barack Obama would be under enormous domestic political pressure to come to Israel's aid. His prospective Republican challengers for the White House have tried to portray Obama as insufficiently loyal to Israel and overly tolerant of Iran.

Obama could decide to provide Israel with extra missile defense systems, such as the Patriot, to help defend its cities. He could choose a more aggressive course, ordering follow-up air strikes on Iranian targets such as military bases and its remaining nuclear facilities.

"That's kind of the nightmare scenario," says Charles Wald, a retired Air Force general who argues nonetheless that the best hope for stopping Iran from getting the bomb is to strengthen the credibility of threats to use U.S. or Israeli military force. Such threats, he argues, could change Iran's course.

The U.S. has two aircraft carriers, the USS Abraham Lincoln and the USS Carl Vinson, and other warships near Iran's shores, as well as a wide array of warplanes at land bases on the Arabian Peninsula, and thousands of troops in Kuwait. It also has special operations forces near Iran's eastern border, in Afghanistan.

Wald is co-leader of the Bipartisan Policy Center, which warned in a Feb. 8 report that Iran is "fast approaching the nuclear threshold." While not advocating an Israeli pre-emptive strike, Wald's group said the U.S. should provide Israel with 200 advanced GBU-31 bombs capable of reaching targets buried deep underground and three KC-135 refueling planes to extend the range of Israel's strike jets.

The US has no immediate plans to provide Israel with new military aid.

The consensus view among U.S. intelligence agencies is that Iran is not building a nuclear bomb now but is developing a capability to do so in the future. A critical question is how long it would take Iran to assemble a bomb, once a decision was made to proceed, and how much additional time it would need to affix the bomb to a missile or other means of delivering it beyond its own borders.

.Obama has not ruled out using force to stop Iran from building a bomb. But his administration, joined by many allied nations, has counseled Israel to hold off. Several senior administration officials have been to Israel in recent days to emphasize caution, including Obama's national security adviser, Tom Donilon.

Obama is due to meet with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu at the White House on March 5. The Israeli defense minister, Ehud Barak, is meeting Wednesday at the Pentagon with Defense Secretary Leon Panetta.

Iran insists that its nuclear program is for peaceful purposes and has invited the U.S. and four other powers to sit down for nuclear talks. But in recent weeks tensions have grown amid Iranian threats to close the Strait of Hormuz in retaliation for Western penalties and debate in Israel about a pre-emptive strike.

Adding to a sense of urgency was a Feb. 2 Washington Post report that Defense Secretary Leon Panetta believes there is a strong likelihood that Israel will attack Iran in April, May or June. Panetta has not disputed the report but has said he doesn't think Israel has yet decided to act.

In the U.S. view, any Israeli attack could set back the Iranian nuclear program a few of years at most, while giving Iranian leaders extra incentive and domestic support for rebuilding a clandestine program out of reach of U.N. inspectors.

http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/140427163.html?id=140427163

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Re: U.S. does not believe Iran is trying to build nuclear bomb
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2012, 08:32:18 PM »
They must be reading the board.  lol

Israeli attack on Iran might pull U.S. into new war
By Robert Burns
AP National Security Writer
POSTED: 09:30 a.m. HST, Feb 25, 2012
LAST UPDATED: 10:53 a.m. HST, Feb 25, 2012

WASHINGTON >> An Israeli pre-emptive attack on Iran's nuclear sites could draw the U.S. into a new Mideast conflict, a prospect dreaded by a war-weary Pentagon wary of new entanglements.

That could mean pressing into service the top tier of American firepower — warplanes, warships, special operations forces and possibly airborne infantry — with unpredictable outcomes in one of the world's most volatile regions.

"Israel can commence a war with Iran, but it may well take U.S. involvement to conclude it," says Karim Sadjadpour, a Middle East specialist at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.

An armed clash with Iran is far from certain. Diplomacy backed by increasingly tough economic penalties is still seen by the United States and much of the rest of the world as worth pursuing for now, not least because the other options — going to war or simply doing nothing — are considered more risky.

Israel, however, worries that Iran soon could enter a "zone of immunity" in which enough of its nuclear materials are beyond the reach of Israeli air power so that Iran could not be stopped, or perhaps could be stopped only by superior American firepower.

If Israel's American-made strike planes managed to penetrate Iranian air space and bomb Iran's main nuclear facilities, some of which are underground, then Iran would be expected to retaliate in any number of ways. That possibly could include the firing of Shahab-3 ballistic missiles at Tel Aviv or other Israeli targets.

Iran might take a less direct approach, relying on its Hezbollah allies in Lebanon or Hamas militants in Gaza to hit Israel with missiles from closer range.

Iran also might block the Strait of Hormuz, a key transit route for the world's oil tankers. It could attack nearby Bahrain, home to the U.S. Navy's 5th Fleet. In either of these scenarios, the U.S. military almost certainly would hit back, possibly with strikes against the Iranian navy or land targets.

Michael O'Hanlon, a defense analyst at the Brookings Institution, sees a chance that the U.S. could largely stay out of the fight if Israel struck first. If Iran's air defenses managed to knock down an Israeli fighter pilot, however, U.S. special operations forces might be sent to rescue him, he said.

If the U.S. spotted Iran preparing to fire a ballistic missile at Israel in a retaliatory act, "it's possible we would decide to take that missile out," O'Hanlon said. "I would bet against most other direct American involvement."

Iran's response to an Israeli pre-emptive strike is unpredictable. Iran's defense minister, in a warning broadcast Saturday on state-run television, said a strike by "the Zionist regime will undoubtedly lead to the collapse of this regime." Gen. Ahmad Vahidi did not say what type of action Iran would take should Israel attack.

Uncertainty about Iranian retaliation, as well as the cascade of potential consequences if the U.S. got drawn into the conflict, is at the core of U.S. officials' rationale for publicly casting doubt on the wisdom of Israeli military action now.

Gen. Martin Dempsey, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, bluntly made the point last weekend. He told CNN's "Fareed Zakaria GPS" that the retaliation equation is "the reason that we think that it's not prudent at this point to decide to attack Iran" and "that's been our counsel to our allies, the Israelis, well-known, well-documented." He said he doubts Israel has been persuaded by Washington's pleadings.

Depending on the type and scale of the Iranian reaction to an Israeli strike, and whether it included attacks on U.S. forces or bases, President Barack Obama would be under enormous domestic political pressure to come to Israel's aid. His prospective Republican challengers for the White House have tried to portray Obama as insufficiently loyal to Israel and overly tolerant of Iran.

Obama could decide to provide Israel with extra missile defense systems, such as the Patriot, to help defend its cities. He could choose a more aggressive course, ordering follow-up air strikes on Iranian targets such as military bases and its remaining nuclear facilities.

"That's kind of the nightmare scenario," says Charles Wald, a retired Air Force general who argues nonetheless that the best hope for stopping Iran from getting the bomb is to strengthen the credibility of threats to use U.S. or Israeli military force. Such threats, he argues, could change Iran's course.

The U.S. has two aircraft carriers, the USS Abraham Lincoln and the USS Carl Vinson, and other warships near Iran's shores, as well as a wide array of warplanes at land bases on the Arabian Peninsula, and thousands of troops in Kuwait. It also has special operations forces near Iran's eastern border, in Afghanistan.

Wald is co-leader of the Bipartisan Policy Center, which warned in a Feb. 8 report that Iran is "fast approaching the nuclear threshold." While not advocating an Israeli pre-emptive strike, Wald's group said the U.S. should provide Israel with 200 advanced GBU-31 bombs capable of reaching targets buried deep underground and three KC-135 refueling planes to extend the range of Israel's strike jets.

The US has no immediate plans to provide Israel with new military aid.

The consensus view among U.S. intelligence agencies is that Iran is not building a nuclear bomb now but is developing a capability to do so in the future. A critical question is how long it would take Iran to assemble a bomb, once a decision was made to proceed, and how much additional time it would need to affix the bomb to a missile or other means of delivering it beyond its own borders.

.Obama has not ruled out using force to stop Iran from building a bomb. But his administration, joined by many allied nations, has counseled Israel to hold off. Several senior administration officials have been to Israel in recent days to emphasize caution, including Obama's national security adviser, Tom Donilon.

Obama is due to meet with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu at the White House on March 5. The Israeli defense minister, Ehud Barak, is meeting Wednesday at the Pentagon with Defense Secretary Leon Panetta.

Iran insists that its nuclear program is for peaceful purposes and has invited the U.S. and four other powers to sit down for nuclear talks. But in recent weeks tensions have grown amid Iranian threats to close the Strait of Hormuz in retaliation for Western penalties and debate in Israel about a pre-emptive strike.

Adding to a sense of urgency was a Feb. 2 Washington Post report that Defense Secretary Leon Panetta believes there is a strong likelihood that Israel will attack Iran in April, May or June. Panetta has not disputed the report but has said he doesn't think Israel has yet decided to act.

In the U.S. view, any Israeli attack could set back the Iranian nuclear program a few of years at most, while giving Iranian leaders extra incentive and domestic support for rebuilding a clandestine program out of reach of U.N. inspectors.

http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/140427163.html?id=140427163
Thats exactly what I was getting at - although I worded it poorly.
Israel is the driving force, and will be the reason that we go to war with Iran.
I have no doubt they hate us, everything you said is true, however, that doesnt mean that theyre suicidal or that theyre after weapons. Its not about good intentions, its about INTELLIGENT intentions.

Lots of countries hate us, lots of countries are vocal about it. Lots of countries have Nuclear power. The only reason this one is any different, is because Israel is fearing for their livelyhood (as well they should).
HOWEVER, its not our responsibility to tell the world what they can and cant do.

We should not be dictating how the Iranians run their lives. Should we allow them to build Nuclear warheads capable of killing us? Hell no.
Should we allow them to build Nuclear warheads capable of attacking Israel? No, probably not.
Should we be dictating to them they are not allowed Nuclear technology? HELL NO.

As I said before, we should be allowing them to run their country and develop Nuclear Tech - but we should be careful about what theyre building. Not getting all up in their business because theyre enchriching Uranium. Especially when its not to levels that can be weaponized yet.

If we have PROOF that theyre building Nuclear warheads, then yeah. We should probably do something. But we have no proof, were just going off Israels pressure. Hell, Mossad themselves said they dont believe Iran is building a weapon yet.
Were way jumping the gun. We are NOT the worlds police, and we certainly should not be the worlds POLICE STATE.

Our meddling in other countries affairs is going to do only one thing - get more Citizens killed, and for what? I mean really, for what at this point? Because we THINK they MIGHT POSSIBLY be THINKING of building warheads down the road? Yeah, I dont think so.

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Re: U.S. does not believe Iran is trying to build nuclear bomb
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2012, 11:11:50 PM »
Yes I understand their intentions could be entirely legitimate.  But I'd have to stick my head in the sand to believe that.  

This is the same country that provided weapons to insurgents who killed Americans in Iraq.  The same country that calls us The Great Satan.  The same country that has a leader who says the Holocaust didn't happen and would like to wipe Israel (our ally) off the planet.  It would be foolish to conclude they have nothing but good intentions.

Just as an FYI, that bold part is an outright lie and has been propegated thought he media for the past 4 years for obvious reasons.  He never said anything close to wanting to wipe Israel off the planet/map whatever.  Here's exactly what was said and translated word for word from Farsi:

Quote
The Actual Quote:

So what did Ahmadinejad actually say? To quote his exact words in Farsi:

"Imam ghoft een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad."

That passage will mean nothing to most people, but one word might ring a bell: rezhim-e. It is the word "regime." pronounced just like the English word with an extra "eh" sound at the end. Ahmadinejad did not refer to Israel the country or Israel the land mass, but the Israeli regime. This is a vastly significant distinction, as one cannot wipe a regime off the map. Ahmadinejad does not even refer to Israel by name, he instead uses the specific phrase "rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods" (regime occupying Jerusalem).

So this raises the question.. what exactly did he want "wiped from the map"? The answer is: nothing. That's because the word "map" was never used. The Persian word for map, "nagsheh" is not contained anywhere in his original Farsi quote, or, for that matter, anywhere in his entire speech. Nor was the western phrase "wipe out" ever said. Yet we are led to believe that Iran's president threatened to "wipe Israel off the map." despite never having uttered the words "map." "wipe out" or even "Israel."

The Proof:

The full quote translated directly to English:

"The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time."

Word by word translation:

Imam (Khomeini) ghoft (said) een (this) rezhim-e (regime) ishghalgar-e (occupying) qods (Jerusalem) bayad (must) az safheh-ye ruzgar (from page of time) mahv shavad (vanish from).

Here is the full transcript of the speech in Farsi, archived on Ahmadinejad's web site

The Speech and Context:

While the false "wiped off the map" extract has been repeated infinitely without verification, Ahmadinejad's actual speech itself has been almost entirely ignored. Given the importance placed on the "map" comment, it would be sensible to present his words in their full context to get a fuller understanding of his position. In fact, by looking at the entire speech, there is a clear, logical trajectory leading up to his call for a "world without Zionism." One may disagree with his reasoning, but critical appraisals are infeasible without first knowing what that reasoning is.

In his speech, Ahmadinejad declares that Zionism is the West's apparatus of political oppression against Muslims. He says the "Zionist regime" was imposed on the Islamic world as a strategic bridgehead to ensure domination of the region and its assets. Palestine, he insists, is the frontline of the Islamic world's struggle with American hegemony, and its fate will have repercussions for the entire Middle East.

Ahmadinejad acknowledges that the removal of America's powerful grip on the region via the Zionists may seem unimaginable to some, but reminds the audience that, as Khomeini predicted, other seemingly invincible empires have disappeared and now only exist in history books. He then proceeds to list three such regimes that have collapsed, crumbled or vanished, all within the last 30 years:

(1) The Shah of Iran – the U.S. installed monarch

(2) The Soviet Union

(3) Iran's former arch-enemy, Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein

In the first and third examples, Ahmadinejad prefaces their mention with Khomeini's own words foretelling that individual regime's demise. He concludes by referring to Khomeini's unfulfilled wish: "The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time. This statement is very wise." This is the passage that has been isolated, twisted and distorted so famously. By measure of comparison, Ahmadinejad would seem to be calling for regime change, not war.

The Origin:

One may wonder: where did this false interpretation originate? Who is responsible for the translation that has sparked such worldwide controversy? The answer is surprising.

The inflammatory "wiped off the map" quote was first disseminated not by Iran's enemies, but by Iran itself. The Islamic Republic News Agency, Iran's official propaganda arm, used this phrasing in the English version of some of their news releases covering the World Without Zionism conference. International media including the BBC, Al-Jazeera, Time magazine and countless others picked up the IRNA quote and made headlines out of it without verifying its accuracy, and rarely referring to the source. Iran's Foreign Minister soon attempted to clarify the statement, but the quote had a life of its own. Though the IRNA wording was inaccurate and misleading, the media assumed it was true, and besides, it made great copy.

Amid heated wrangling over Iran's nuclear program, and months of continuous, unfounded accusations against Iran in an attempt to rally support for preemptive strikes against the country, the imperialists had just been handed the perfect raison d'être to invade. To the war hawks, it was a gift from the skies.

It should be noted that in other references to the conference, the IRNA's translation changed. For instance, "map" was replaced with "earth." In some articles it was "The Qods occupier regime should be eliminated from the surface of earth." or the similar "The Qods occupying regime must be eliminated from the surface of earth." The inconsistency of the IRNA's translation should be evidence enough of the unreliability of the source, particularly when transcribing their news from Farsi into the English language.

howardroark

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Re: U.S. does not believe Iran is trying to build nuclear bomb
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2012, 06:49:25 AM »
^ pwned

headhuntersix

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Re: U.S. does not believe Iran is trying to build nuclear bomb
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2012, 06:57:39 AM »
This is an owning...this is bullshit. You need some half assed leftwing translation to prove your point. Whats the source. The Iranians were up to their asses trying to kill us In Iraq. They sponsor terrorist organizations that kill westerners and Israeli citizens. No matter what you leftwing naive  libs think...or your RP supporting brothers, Iran wants Israel to go and they're a threat to everybody.
L

Bindare_Dundat

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Re: U.S. does not believe Iran is trying to build nuclear bomb
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2012, 07:41:12 AM »
This is an owning...this is bullshit. You need some half assed leftwing translation to prove your point. Whats the source. The Iranians were up to their asses trying to kill us In Iraq. They sponsor terrorist organizations that kill westerners and Israeli citizens. No matter what you leftwing naive  libs think...or your RP supporting brothers, Iran wants Israel to go and they're a threat to everybody.


Those bombs are stockpiled right next to those wmd's we kept gearing about. Anyway this topic has been discussed to death but I go by my day to day living when judging what a threat is to me and Iran never enters my mind. I'm more threatened by jobs that are dissapearing, money that buys me less, civil liberties shrinking yearly, etc.

Emmortal

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Re: U.S. does not believe Iran is trying to build nuclear bomb
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2012, 07:50:53 AM »
This is an owning...this is bullshit. You need some half assed leftwing translation to prove your point. Whats the source. The Iranians were up to their asses trying to kill us In Iraq. They sponsor terrorist organizations that kill westerners and Israeli citizens. No matter what you leftwing naive  libs think...or your RP supporting brothers, Iran wants Israel to go and they're a threat to everybody.

Bullshit? Sorry, no, just the cold hard facts, broseph:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad_and_Israel

Secondly, I'm in no way defending Ahmadinejad, just pointing out that misquote is exactly that, a misquote.  Obviously they want Israel out of the picture because they've been fighting against the Palestinians for centuries, a war which Israel can certainly defend itself against.  A nation with over 300 nukes and the most advanced military in the region against a bunch of people stuck 300 years in the past who don't even have a bomb or the means to deliver it by camel.




Skip8282

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Re: U.S. does not believe Iran is trying to build nuclear bomb
« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2012, 08:08:44 AM »
Wipe Israel off the planet.

regime must vanish from the page of time.

Wow, what a huge distinction, lol.

::)

howardroark

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Re: U.S. does not believe Iran is trying to build nuclear bomb
« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2012, 08:09:24 AM »
This is an owning...this is bullshit. You need some half assed leftwing translation to prove your point. Whats the source. The Iranians were up to their asses trying to kill us In Iraq. They sponsor terrorist organizations that kill westerners and Israeli citizens. No matter what you leftwing naive  libs think...or your RP supporting brothers, Iran wants Israel to go and they're a threat to everybody.

Source: People who speak Farsi.

Don't fall for government propaganda.

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Re: U.S. does not believe Iran is trying to build nuclear bomb
« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2012, 08:34:03 AM »
Wipe Israel off the planet.

regime must vanish from the page of time.

Wow, what a huge distinction, lol.

::)
Yeah, the translation has been pretty loosely used, but yeah, not a HUGE leap of logic.
Still, plenty of countries have spoken of wanting others destroyed or wiped off the map, yet were not invading or sanctioning those countries.
As I said, if they are actually developing Nuclear weapons capable of reaching their destination, then yeah, I feel like we should probably do something.
The information on where theyre at now... No.

Were jumping the gun big time right now and were going to pay for it with American lives. Like I said before, for what? To make the Israeli's sleep a little better at night? When theyre not in any graver danger than they have been for the last 10 years?

They dont have a warhead yet. They dont have the level of resources to build one yet. So why is everyone freaking out?
Its like freaking out that your neighbor figured out how to build a bullet, but he doenst have a firearm to shoot it or gunpowder to ignite the round.

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Re: U.S. does not believe Iran is trying to build nuclear bomb
« Reply #23 on: February 26, 2012, 08:38:40 AM »
Bullshit? Sorry, no, just the cold hard facts, broseph:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad_and_Israel

Secondly, I'm in no way defending Ahmadinejad, just pointing out that misquote is exactly that, a misquote.  Obviously they want Israel out of the picture because they've been fighting against the Palestinians for centuries, a war which Israel can certainly defend itself against.  A nation with over 300 nukes and the most advanced military in the region against a bunch of people stuck 300 years in the past who don't even have a bomb or the means to deliver it by camel.





Cold hard facts??  From the same link:

The Iranian presidential website states: that "the Zionist Regime of Israel faces a deadend and will under God's grace be wiped off the map," and "the Zionist Regime that is a usurper and illegitimate regime and a cancerous tumor should be wiped off the map."[25]

Footnote "25" from that link is this story:

Ahmadinejad says Israel will "disappear"
By Hossein Jaseb and Fredrik Dahl
TEHRAN | Tue Jun 3, 2008

(Reuters) - Iran's president said on Monday Israel would soon disappear off the map and that the "satanic power" of the United States faced destruction, in his latest verbal attack on the Islamic Republic's arch-enemies.

President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was speaking at a gathering of foreign guests marking this week's 19th anniversary of the death of Iran's late revolutionary leader, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, the official IRNA news agency said.

"You should know that the criminal and terrorist Zionist regime which has 60 years of plundering, aggression and crimes in its file has reached the end of its work and will soon disappear off the geographical scene," he said.

Turning to the United States, Ahmadinejad said the era of decline and destruction of its "satanic power" had begun.

Ahmadinejad, who often rails against the West, is expected to travel to Rome on Tuesday to attend a U.N. summit on global food security. It will be his first visit to western Europe since he won the presidency in 2005.

In Washington, White House spokeswoman Dana Perino described Ahmadinejad's comments as "that kind of rhetoric that just serves to further isolate the Iranian people".

U.S. State Department spokesman Sean McCormack condemned the Iranian president's latest comments on Israel: "Again, more hateful vitriol coming from President Ahmadinejad."

"DEAD END"

The United States, which severed ties with Iran shortly after its 1979 Islamic revolution, is leading efforts to isolate Tehran over its disputed nuclear program, which the West suspects is a front for developing atomic bombs.

Washington says it wants a diplomatic resolution to the nuclear row but has not ruled out military action if that fails.

Iran, the world's fourth-largest oil producer, says its nuclear program is only aimed at generating electricity and insists it will not bow to Western pressure.

Opposition to Israel is a fundamental principle in Shi'ite Muslim Iran, which backs Palestinian militants opposed to peace with the Jewish state.

A 2005 statement by Ahmadinejad saying that Israel should be "wiped off the map" outraged the international community.

The call was originally made by Khomeini and Ahmadinejad referred to this at another speech on Monday evening at the shrine near Tehran where the Islamic Republic's founder is buried, saying "his ideal is about to be materialized today."

He added: "The Zionist regime is in a total dead end and, God willing, this desire will soon be realized and the epitome of perversion will disappear off the face of the world."

The crowd chanted "Death to Israel" and "Death to America."


In April, a senior Iranian army commander said Iran would respond to any military attack from Israel by "eliminating" it.

Some analysts have speculated that Israel might attack Iran to stop its nuclear work. Iran says it has developed ballistic missiles able to hit Israel and U.S. bases in the region. (Additional reporting by Hashem Kalantari in Tehran and by Jeremy Pelofsky and Sue Pleming in Washington; Editing by Ibon Villelabeitia

http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/06/03/us-iran-israel-usa-idUSL0261250620080603


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Re: U.S. does not believe Iran is trying to build nuclear bomb
« Reply #24 on: February 26, 2012, 08:39:04 AM »
Hint hint hint hint hint everyone - its not only those "evil" Jews who dont want Iran to get a nuke - ITS EVERYONE IN THE REGION.