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Author Topic: Squats are very dangerous and bad for the knees.  (Read 4162 times)
jakesonyou
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« on: March 19, 2012, 08:38:54 PM »

Squats are the best leg building exercise bar none.  Having stronger quads actually take a great amount of stress OFF the knees!

So some common questions I am asked.

Parallel or below parallel?  Well I am an advocate of ass to grass squats!  People complaining about squats damaging the knees...?  Not going below parallel actually puts MORE stress on your knees.

Do a wide stance, stick your butt out, chest up, head forward, and go down.

Some very important things to know while squatting.

-  Toes must be pointed out at an angle.  See below.
-  Knees must be inline with your toes.  See above.
-  If your knees cave in at all, the weight is to heavy.
-  Push through your heels.
-  The deeper you go you activate the hamstrings and glutes as well.  The superior leg exercise!
-  Controlled reps are important.  Don't drop into the squat.  Go down slow and push up.

How many sets, how many reps?

My opinion is to keep the reps low and 3 sets.  I have done 5-7 and my squat gains are incredible.  My usual motto with the squats is heavy weight and go until I can barely get the last rep up.  Cool

hope this helps
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E-Kul
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« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2012, 10:17:59 PM »

Squats are the best leg building exercise bar none.  Having stronger quads actually take a great amount of stress OFF the knees!

So some common questions I am asked.

Parallel or below parallel?  Well I am an advocate of ass to grass squats!  People complaining about squats damaging the knees...?  Not going below parallel actually puts MORE stress on your knees.

Do a wide stance, stick your butt out, chest up, head forward, and go down.

Some very important things to know while squatting.

-  Toes must be pointed out at an angle.  See below.
-  Knees must be inline with your toes.  See above.
-  If your knees cave in at all, the weight is to heavy.
-  Push through your heels.
-  The deeper you go you activate the hamstrings and glutes as well.  The superior leg exercise!
-  Controlled reps are important.  Don't drop into the squat.  Go down slow and push up.

How many sets, how many reps?

My opinion is to keep the reps low and 3 sets.  I have done 5-7 and my squat gains are incredible.  My usual motto with the squats is heavy weight and go until I can barely get the last rep up.  Cool

hope this helps
Be sure to not let your EGO get carried away though!

Because too much weight is too much weight!


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« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2012, 10:19:15 PM »

^

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oldtimer1
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« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2012, 08:26:58 AM »

There was a very poorly designed study in the 1960's that concluded that squats are bad for the knees.  It has been quoted so many times that people take it as Gospel. 

I believe that full controlled full squats are good for your knees. If you have prior injuries obviously not. In third world countries don't people spend their lifetime squatting when they sit?  I don't see all the damaged knees.

I think what's really bad for your knees is always doing partials. You will lose flexibility in the knee joint. One day due to fatique you might drop pass your usual range of motion and then you will damage your knees.
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« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2012, 09:26:58 AM »

Not sure if Jak-you is focusing more of PL'ing or BB'ing. Seems to be PL'ing. But than again, most lifters can not make up their minds if they want to be a super duper BB'ers or a kick ass PL'ing. Can't have both.

Doing bench/box squats (a great exercise..as are pin settings PR leg training) may prove a better substitution for parallel squatting. That way you are assured of the depth of any rep. Partial reps always have a place in squatting. And of course the toes are normally pointed out ,when squatting, even when standing still. Toes out wide too much can affect the knee's in a negative manner. Extra wide foot (not toes) placing works very well for PL'ers.

Still lots of Pro's & Con's about  parallel's vs full ROM squats, among trainers. Some trainers suggest bwt to light full range motion squats for rehab projects. In any case the flex of the knee is very important to get back to normal functions. I can go with this reasoning, depending on the individual progress of the recovering patient. In any case, no need to do any ass to grass movements, they may prove to be too much of a good thing..

True that half the world may squat, rather than sit, but they do not have any heavy weight pushing down on than as when raising to a standing position. But they seem to have less knee and back problems than the rest of the world.

The knee inline with the toes theory has been around for many years. It works for some, but may not be the  ideal exercise for most.  The hip flexors, hams  and lower back will will require a different approach in learning the movement. And like the DL, some are just not built (bone leverage/inserts/body structure). But than again, anything is worth a try.

Just to note: Box squats are an excellent way to learn correct squatting form and reduce any potential injury. Either for a BB'er or PL'er. Good Luck.
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« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2012, 03:54:35 PM »

I realize I'm an experiment of one but I have been doing deep squats for close to 40 years with zero knee pain.  The only time my knee will bother me is when I bike to much. But that is even rare.

The guys I see complaining about knee pain are the ones loading up the leg press and squat bar with an insane amount of weight doing partials every training day and they usually claim they are not doing partials. Delusion is a big part of this sport.  Partials are a tool but a steady diet of it isn't good for the joints.
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jakesonyou
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« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2012, 11:53:18 PM »

Be sure to not let your EGO get carried away though!

Because too much weight is too much weight!
Jean Pierre Fux is a sad example of the bodybuilder ego.

I forgot to reply - DON'T FORGET safety/catch bars.

I see many young kids at my gym doing squats without the bars.  The other day 2 asian fellows were rotating in squats.  First off, the one guy had the bar resting pegs to high.  So his friend had to help him unrack and rack the bar.  Secondly, he continued to move back and shuffle his feet after each squat.  He also kept lifting his feet when squatting and going over the toes.  The bar was also wobbling a good amount.

You should always, always use the catch bars.  If you can't finish the squat, drop that weight off your back.  Who cares if it makes a load ass crashing noise.  You don't ever want to injure yourself.
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« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2012, 09:35:20 AM »

Squatting in a power cage with safety bars is something that is very important. You can set the bars to the perfect height. 

I think leg extensions have damaged more knees than anything in the weight room.
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jakesonyou
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« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2012, 04:47:21 PM »

Squatting in a power cage with safety bars is something that is very important. You can set the bars to the perfect height. 

I think leg extensions have damaged more knees than anything in the weight room.
very true my friend!  Leg extensions are horrible!  I only recommend leg extensions as warm up, with very light weight and do not lock the knees.  You could also finish with leg extensions, again light weight, no locking, and just go to failure to stress the quads.

I only use the leg extension machine for hamstrings.
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« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2012, 05:25:45 PM »

Knees over toes is bad for you is bullshit parroting done by parrots!  Wink
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jakesonyou
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« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2012, 07:47:20 PM »

Knees over toes is bad for you is bullshit parroting done by parrots!  Wink
no sorry I disagree.  If knees are over toes you are not squatting properly.  You are most likely rounding your back!  Eyes forward, chest up, firm grip.  Keep the knees pointed out.  If they are caving in, weight is too heavy.
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« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2012, 08:35:19 AM »

Knee to toe: Not a solution for doing proper squatting, because it will depend on body structure , inserts, bone leverage and type (see above). I'm just about 6'2 1/2, so with taller people we may face a problem. Guy's much shorter may be easily adaptable to the knees over toes protocol. So can't really say each person is doing it right or wrong, depends on the genetic placement of body type. And what works for them only.

With squatting, a lot depends if the bar is placed higher up on the traps/shoulders (strict BB'ing squat), set on the mid traps or a quarter ways down the back (serious Pl'ing  style..giving better points of leverage). A Manta Ray is a very workable tool to aid to squatting. As are box squats (mentioned above). Good luck.
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« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2012, 10:23:16 AM »

What I should have posted is this nonsense so called personal trainers have been touting for years now that if your knees go over your toes,you will ruin your knees.

Lunges and walking lunges would have been a better example................s orry!  Wink
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« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2012, 11:35:36 AM »

Knee to toe: Not a solution for doing proper squatting, because it will depend on body structure , inserts, bone leverage and type (see above). I'm just about 6'2 1/2, so with taller people we may face a problem. Guy's much shorter may be easily adaptable to the knees over toes protocol. So can't really say each person is doing it right or wrong, depends on the genetic placement of body type. And what works for them only.

With squatting, a lot depends if the bar is placed higher up on the traps/shoulders (strict BB'ing squat), set on the mid traps or a quarter ways down the back (serious Pl'ing  style..giving better points of leverage). A Manta Ray is a very workable tool to aid to squatting. As are box squats (mentioned above). Good luck.
yes i agree 100%.
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« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2012, 08:12:36 PM »



I forgot to reply - DON'T FORGET safety/catch bars.


Always, always use these!! Every person that asks me about any move performed in the rack/cage I always make sure to tell them to use the safety bars. I know they have saved my ass a few times. Grin
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« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2012, 08:47:35 PM »

Always, always use these!! Every person that asks me about any move performed in the rack/cage I always make sure to tell them to use the safety bars. I know they have saved my ass a few times. Grin
many young guys in my gym don't use them at all as I said.  Every time I see JPF picture it makes me cringe!

I was watching a guy do squats a couple months ago...  he had the catch bars on, but way to low.  he had 315 on the bar, went down for a weak rep, went for another and couldn't get it back up.  he had 1 arm on the bar still trying to keep it on his back  Huh he had another hand on the safety bar which was now out of the hole and pointing to the ground.

had to help him get the weight OFF his back since in his position it would have rolled down and flattened his neck.  he was definitely walking funny after that.
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« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2012, 01:11:50 AM »

Squats have got to be better for your knees than this.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJHKMzku0yc" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJHKMzku0yc</a>
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