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Author Topic: fighting fatigue while training?!  (Read 3357 times)
texasRUSH
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« on: October 26, 2005, 08:39:20 AM »

here lately i'm having to work really really hard to get 10 reps out of each set on my usual heavy routines...



so i'm gonna alternate...this week i'm doing 15-25 rep ranges in all my exercises..so here's what the routine looks like..and i'm doing it with little rest between sets...2 mins instead of 5

bench 3 sets of 15 with 200lbs
dumbbell rows-3x20x90lbs
upright rows-3x15x140lbs
dumb bell curls (i wish my arms would grow Sad ) 2x45x12
french press 2x120x15
squats 4x25x150 (no rack so i'm having to power clean and press to get it over my shoulders before and after each set..it's why it's so low a number)

now thsi first time around i'm gonna do it every other day instead of everyday...to see how my body reacts...but next week it's back to the usual daily and then the week after more high reps


look good? or add or remove some things?
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Overload
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« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2005, 08:53:16 AM »

what are you training for? bodybuilding? football?

i'd suggest using a 3-4 day split but i'm not sure what your goals are...

we did a similar training style in high school baseball training 3 days a week.

 Cool
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texasRUSH
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« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2005, 08:55:19 AM »

i'm a fire fighter...

so i'm training to benefit me both at the station and to get big in general. if i dont work out daily usually i feel drained or overloaded with energy...i'ts just become a habit now. i never feel any soreness or anything anymore cept that few days with my fore arms....my strength keeps going up..but my size has stopped for the most part. 
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pumpster
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« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2005, 10:48:48 AM »

Dude you CANNOT hit the same muscles everyday-that explains your impasse and lack of size gains immediately!

Try every other day training-you can do cardio on in-between days if you like. ALSO eventually try 2 or 3 day splits, hitting different muscles each day. You can add more exercises if desired, to fill out each day's schedule.

Keep rest periods to 1-1.5 minutes max. between sets.

Try different rep ranges, as you're doing, and also try using partials, cheats and rest-pause reps to get through the barrier.

If none of this helps, take a week off to restore nervous energy. A week off's a good idea every 3-4 months anyway, if training hard.


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texasRUSH
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« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2005, 05:18:07 PM »

before you bash my training methods...have you actually tried training like this? or have are you going based off what you've read and heard and not from actual experience?   try it..you just might surprise yourself.
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JPM
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« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2005, 05:42:28 PM »

Most of the fire stations in So Cal ( the forest department fire stations also) have a pretty fair weight training set up. Some experienced lifters are also fireman, which would include a few women.  I guess you station doesn't have anyone to help you? You feel drained or overloaded with energy every day? That's interesting. You may want to settle for doing workouts 3 times a week (your probably on a split job shift each week: 3 on, 1 off, etc.) with a full day's rest between workout days. Example like monday...wednsday...frid ay, etc.

You most always want to start with the largest muscle area first in a full body workout (or most any other type of workout plan). It seems your doing full body, which can be very rewarding in terms of strength and muscle gains. Might want to drop the squat because your not getting full benefit from it if you have to clean & press the bar up. Hack BB squats are a very good exercise for the quads so you might consider those until you come in contact with a regular squat rack. All the other exercises look good but I would do BB rows rather that DB rows, using a curl grip. You may also want to add military presses to the workout, overhead lifting can be very important for any fireman and it can add muscle mass fairly quickly to the shoulder area.  You may also want to drop the reps down to 6-10 for awhile (do not alternate reps each week but stay on the 6-10 plan for at least 3 months), which will allow you to use much heavier weights and in return make more demands on your bodies muscle building abilities. Going heavy usually means more muscle size. Keep the set's to 3 for now. If you feel the urge to exercise on your non workout day, do not. You will just destroy any change of making gains and will probably lose muscle in the short run.

Suggested workout:

Hack's..BB...3 sets
Row's...BB...3 sets
Bench Press...3 sets
Military press...BB
Upright rows...3 sets
Lying French press...2 sets
Curls...BB..close grip...2 sets.

Eat enought quality calories and protein to insure good gains.  At least 3,000 calories.  Good Luck.



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pumpster
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« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2005, 07:30:36 PM »

Quote
before you bash my training methods...have you actually tried training like this?

Don't be defensive; you asked the question so be open to those taking the time to provide information acquired through experience and research. Training the same muscles every day is a clear indication of a need for better information.

Also try to figure out some way to get some basic equipment-having someone hand you the barbell for squats isn't realistic for the future, assuming you're going to progress, and basic or front squats are an essential for which there is no real substitute.

As mentioned, many stations have equipment, and with some thought & patience you can find used stuff cheaply. Call some of the other stations and find out how they got what they have. I can also suggest relatively inexpensive multi-exercise stations for several hundred $ used that are awesome, don't take much space and DON'T require a spotter.
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Princess L
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« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2005, 09:53:04 PM »

Check out this site.
http://www.strengthcats.com/firepower.htm
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mem
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« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2005, 11:37:11 PM »


- - Dude you CANNOT hit the same muscles everyday - -


. . . something to be said about effective training and recovery cycles . . .
and potentially endless fatigue associated with your workouts.

3 recovery pathways - muscular, hormonal and neuro (CNS) recovery
cannot possibly take place in 24 hours.


** Thanks JPM - I was tired and could not think of the actual term CNS **
modded my post to correct this . . .
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dontknowit
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« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2005, 04:03:06 AM »

here lately i'm having to work really really hard to get 10 reps out of each set on my usual heavy routines...

...

bench 3 sets of 15 with 200lbs
dumbbell rows-3x20x90lbs
upright rows-3x15x140lbs
dumb bell curls (i wish my arms would grow Sad ) 2x45x12
french press 2x120x15
squats 4x25x150 (no rack so i'm having to power clean and press to get it over my shoulders before and ...

I don't want to know what your previous numbers where, you can wake me up in the middle of the night for that kind of workout  Grin

Did you tried adding a kind of HIIT training before? Damn beneficial, and it doesn't harm the muscles. You can use it in different kind of cardio, running, crosstrainer, cycling, rowing.
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texasRUSH
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« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2005, 06:00:55 AM »

reading about HIT training is what got me into the routine i'm in today...we dont have facilities in our dept becaust the city has other priorities....and more than half of the fire fighters on the dept do little to no physical activity other than day to day life.


so i can increas the volume to an additional set each training day if i lay off the next day after exercising? i was told muscles build themselves while resting...well 23 hour of the rest of the day you'r ereally not doing too much more than what your body is used to anyway..the only time it ever gets over loaded iswhile working out for that hour or so. 
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dontknowit
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« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2005, 07:22:53 AM »

You can do rope-jumping.
Adding a boxingball somewhere in the gym can also do wonders. Not expensive.

Is it maybe able to run around a blok at take intensive sprints from one standard lamp to the other. It doesn't have to take long a long time.
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JPM
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« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2005, 08:09:44 AM »

TexasRush: Muscles may try to to build themselves up to a higher level while resting but if there is not enought  recovery (resting ) time between workouts, not enought quality calories in the form of protein, dense carbs and some fats/oils (flaxseed, olive oil, etc) and a good positive state of mind than the body is restricting advance growth. In reality, it is the Central Nervous System (CNS) that controls weither more muscle mass can be achieved from every workout. The normal CNS will require at least 48 hours between a single lifting workout and some people will need up tp 72 hours or more for complete recovery. Feeling drained or overloaded with energy (Highs-lows) would suggest that your CNS is under too much stress and would require a better rest pattern.

This is not a bashing site. But you will run into a few children or even adults  who still have childish ways and will call you names, degrade you and really have nothing positive to offer in the way of training experience and knowledge. They are just the emotional cripples and want -to-be's, if you don't respond to their  personal slings & arrows directed towards you, than  they'll go away. They can't stand being ignored.

There are quite a few men and women who post on this site with years of hands on knowledge and experience. They do want to help. There advice can guide anyone who want's to listen and learn. There are no absolutes in BB'ing, different systems work for different people. Some prefer high volume, low volume, heavy brief workout's, 20 sets or 2 sets a body part, splits, etc.  In any case, body building is a personal matter and will require trying new systems of working out to find the best one suited for you. In your case, working out every day on the same exercises will only yeild negative results. Probably time for you to explore  different training methods . Just a suggestion, that's all. Good Luck.
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pumpster
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« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2005, 08:21:55 AM »

Actually no one called him names, which uh, is a negative interpretation and is in effect, finger-pointing. He was defensive and you elected to take sides-now that's child-like and once again, negative. Pot calling the kettle black.

As far as content, you've regurgitated what was already said about the necessity of rest days.
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texasRUSH
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« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2005, 08:24:34 AM »

okay i'll try it...i'll give it a good days rest between the training days...i should notice a difference within a week i would think...i eat like a horse...actually i'm eating right now lol..tomato and spinach soup with 4 chicken breasts...
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texasRUSH
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« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2005, 08:34:34 AM »

21...the reason behind me training this was was for the past few years doing the recommended this muscle group with this one every other day and granted i did some growing...but not really at the pace i expected...gains were horrendously slow! HIT training sounded like something new and excited to try..and then i just based my work outs around it


what i dont understand is where guys do bench and bis adn then do shoulders and abs the next day or something...like the wong hong routine...there are times when the same body part is being hit or indirectly for numerous days in a row. hell you use your abs in everyday lifting too...no matter what exercise you're doing.


i am jazzed most of the time through out the day til it starts to get about bed time...what i was initially askings is a way to make getting 10 reps easier....and threw out that new routine to see if that would make much difference...and would alternate between the two.  i never go below 10 reps ulness i just can't make it on my own...everything under 10 i think is a waste of time
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pumpster
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« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2005, 08:37:12 AM »

Quote
what i dont understand is where guys do bench and bis adn then do shoulders and abs the next day or something...like the wong hong routine...there are times when the same body part is being hit or indirectly for numerous days in a row.

That's a reasonable concern. There is controversy about using the same muscles on consecutive days. Some believe it's not big deal. Others think it makes a difference, in which case:

Work all pull muscles one day, push muscles the next. That will afford complete rest of the muscles on consecutive days.

Or:
Design a split routine with exercises arranged on certain days that ensures rest days between workouts for each muscle.

To repeat, because i don't think you've been completely open to all advice-consider all possibilities mentioned by everyone, try them for yourself, to break through the sticking point you've mentioned. Same thing will eventually happen again, it's up to you to have as much information as possible, then try all possibilities if you want to maximimze potential.
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texasRUSH
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here comes the hotstepper!


« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2005, 08:50:25 AM »

soudns like a plan! i hit it hard last night..so i'm gonna leave them alone for this evening...i wont touch them i promise!
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JPM
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« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2005, 09:53:43 AM »

Pumpster: Saying "you will run into" is used as general term for future reference. I'm aware that no one called TR any "name" but this site being what it is, chances are someone will in the future.

 Regurgitation, not so much as trying to explain the whole picture as to why and how the important CNS can react on progress. Most new (or even some experience) trainee's do not have a full understanding of this effect on making steady gains or no gains at all.  Hope this helps, Good Luck.
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pumpster
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« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2005, 10:18:03 AM »

Thanks; was confused as to who you were targeting..
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mem
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« Reply #20 on: October 27, 2005, 07:35:01 PM »

TexasRush: Muscles may try to to build themselves up to a higher level while resting but if there is not enought  recovery (resting ) time between workouts, not enought quality calories in the form of protein, dense carbs and some fats/oils (flaxseed, olive oil, etc) and a good positive state of mind than the body is restricting advance growth. In reality, it is the Central Nervous System (CNS) that controls weither more muscle mass can be achieved from every workout. The normal CNS will require at least 48 hours between a single lifting workout and some people will need up tp 72 hours or more for complete recovery. Feeling drained or overloaded with energy (Highs-lows) would suggest that your CNS is under too much stress and would require a better rest pattern.

This is not a bashing site. But you will run into a few children or even adults  who still have childish ways and will call you names, degrade you and really have nothing positive to offer in the way of training experience and knowledge. They are just the emotional cripples and want -to-be's, if you don't respond to their  personal slings & arrows directed towards you, than  they'll go away. They can't stand being ignored.

There are quite a few men and women who post on this site with years of hands on knowledge and experience. They do want to help. There advice can guide anyone who want's to listen and learn. There are no absolutes in BB'ing, different systems work for different people. Some prefer high volume, low volume, heavy brief workout's, 20 sets or 2 sets a body part, splits, etc.  In any case, body building is a personal matter and will require trying new systems of working out to find the best one suited for you. In your case, working out every day on the same exercises will only yeild negative results. Probably time for you to explore  different training methods . Just a suggestion, that's all. Good Luck.

G R E A T  POST DUDE...

this IS exactly what I was trying to touch on . . .
VERY critical . . .
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texasRUSH
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here comes the hotstepper!


« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2005, 07:32:23 PM »

few days after this post...i've kept doing it ever other day...

to give you an update on how it feels...i'm doing bench now for 3 sets of 10 reps iwth 240 and it felt like i could go at least another 2 or 3 reps on teh last set today on heavy day

my bent over barbell row i did wihtout anyproblems AND ADDED MORE WEIGHT TO IT!  did 3 sets of 10 with 220 lbs!

then my upright/shrug combo almost like a power clean but slower i'm doing now with 190lbs for 3 sets of 10!


and i feel great...and did it iwhtout any problems!
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