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Author Topic: Roulette - has anyone cracked the code?  (Read 8470 times)
Luolamies
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« Reply #25 on: April 20, 2012, 06:11:27 AM »

Haha, I was fucking raging last night - I raised and then evetually went all-in with KJ offsuit on the button against some dude who re-raised me in the small blind with what turned out to be Ace 10. It's a hand I never even bother playing but for some reason I had a mad turn and thought I could steal the blinds with it.  Undecided

So you couldn't catch him when the cards came out? With AT he wasn't that far ahead.
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« Reply #26 on: April 20, 2012, 06:25:55 AM »

So you couldn't catch him when the cards came out? With AT he wasn't that far ahead.

Nope - flop had an Ace and a Queen and the turn and thr river were rags - I only stayed in the hand to make my straight and bust him but it never came.
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tommywishbone
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« Reply #27 on: April 20, 2012, 08:13:11 AM »

I'll be at Lake Tahoe (they have casinos) the next 3 days and give you a full report.

But as we already know; all casino games are based on math. Math, not random chance. The math in the game of roulette can not be beaten.  Sure you can have short term success, but long term play in roulette will always lead to the same conclusion- the house wins. It's the math.
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« Reply #28 on: April 20, 2012, 08:30:19 AM »

I'll be at Lake Tahoe (they have casinos) the next 3 days and give you a full report.

But as we already know; all casino games are based on math. Math, not random chance. The math in the game of roulette can not be beaten.  Sure you can have short term success, but long term play in roulette will always lead to the same conclusion- the house wins. It's the math.

Some spaniards found a system to beat roulette.  It was more physical.  They watched certain wheels and learned that the wheels were not perfectly plane so they ended up having a sweet spot (section)  then they watched certain dealers who spun the ball had a particular way that always ended up in this sweet spot.  After much trial and error they were able to narrow it down to about 8 numbers with a particular guy spinning the wheel.  They cleaned house.

I used to love watching this show called breaking vegas that went over many cheats and how they won.  The common theme in ALL of them getting caught was GREED.
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tommywishbone
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« Reply #29 on: April 20, 2012, 08:32:26 AM »

Some spaniards found a system to beat roulette.  It was more physical.  They watched certain wheels and learned that the wheels were not perfectly plane so they ended up having a sweet spot (section)  then they watched certain dealers who spun the ball had a particular way that always ended up in this sweet spot.  After much trial and error they were able to narrow it down to about 8 numbers with a particular guy spinning the wheel.  They cleaned house.

I used to love watching this show called breaking vegas that went over many cheats and how they won.  The common theme in ALL of them getting caught was GREED.

MOS, that's referred to as a "biased wheel".   The condition does happen but it is very rare and you must (almost always) have a dealer working the casino that spots the condition and calls you in to play.

But it can and does happen. That dealer motion of tossing the ball and spinning the wheel is very repetetive and can evidently become predictable, to some degree.
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« Reply #30 on: April 20, 2012, 09:07:05 AM »

Tommy W. is correct by saying "It's all based on math".
That's absolutely true.

But what he failed to mention and which is also very true (but often never understood) is that the casino wins only wins when the player wins.

It would take a while to explain and prove that here but the simple explanation is that casino almost never pays you your "proper winnings".

For instance the casino will pay a winner 90% of the true odds and retain the remaining 10% as their profit.

And this occurs evertime you win within a casino except when you place true odds bets while  playing Craps .... but even that is debatable.

"Sweet spots" are possible but almost 100% of the time system books are written by individuals who have to write about their systems to cover their gambling losses as a result of using their systems.

One strange thing I've noticed after watching many hundreds  of hours of roulette in Las Vegas casinos is that the  ball usually lands on a number that has the fewest number of chips placed on it but I have no explanation for that common occurance. 
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« Reply #31 on: April 20, 2012, 09:17:14 AM »

"Sweet spots" are possible but almost 100% of the time system books are written by individuals who have to write about their systems to cover their gambling losses as a result of using their systems.'

 Grin LOL!  We agree completely.   

After all, if the "system" really worked you would just use the system daily, win millions $$$, and never share the secret. KFC doesn't share their secret recipe.
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« Reply #32 on: April 20, 2012, 09:25:22 AM »

AS an aside .....

There are 38 numbers that are bettable if you play roulette (in addition to the side bets).

36 of those numbers are numbered 1 through 36.
And there are two additional numbers on an English wheel ... "0" and "00"

So if you place a $10 bet on number "8" and win .... you actually should win 37 times the amount of your bet ($370) but US casinos will only pay you 35 to 1 which is $350 thereby making the casino a $20 profit.

All those other chips that were not winners go into what's sometined referred to as an escrow account resered to pay off future winners.

Allsimple, but very interesting, casino math.
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« Reply #33 on: April 20, 2012, 09:41:18 AM »

THANKS, TW, but for the sake of argument I gotta stand up and disagree with ya

if you think that any roulette dealer has some form of a "twitch" (for lack of a better word) that would cause the ball to tend to land on any section of the wheel.... I would have to take a stand and disagree.

By the way, I've argued this point many times with Peter G. and Keith (while Keith was alive) who both had similar ideas regarding the dealer's ability to control where that little roulette ball would land on that big roulette wheel.

Needless to say, I never could agree with either of them .... nor with anyone else who felt likewise.

It's humanly impossible to control where that ball will go, but stories to the contrary are more interesting and very popular among casino lore.
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« Reply #34 on: April 20, 2012, 09:48:48 AM »

One rule of thumb is never play wheels with  0 and 00.  The addition of the 00 doubles the odds in favor of the house.

As Stunt says.  The payout is pretty interesting.  You start with $100, then over time will win about $90 and the house gets that $10. Then your base is now $90 and you play and end up wuith $81, the house ends up winning $9 making your base $81, then so on until your last $5 bet.
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« Reply #35 on: April 20, 2012, 10:08:35 AM »

MOS, You're basically, but not precisely correct about your bankroll getting smaller.
Even while playing Poker within a casino, the House will eventually get all the money over a long time period depending upon the size of the rake.

But it is definitely possible to win at any casino game over a short time period.

Casino winnings are 'mathmatical' but only become mathmatically precise over very long time periods. That's one of the reasons why casinos never close. The math will always be to their advantage over the long term

A gambler's best advantage is to gamble over short periods of time and never chase his loses.

Now if you want tolearn some really interesting shit, let's discuss the game of CRAPS.
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stuntmovie
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« Reply #36 on: April 20, 2012, 10:13:32 AM »

MOS, English wheels always have 36 numbers plus the "0" and the "00".


French  wheels have 36 numbers but only one "0".

As far as I know, there are no roulette wheels with the 1 - 36 numbers only.
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« Reply #37 on: April 20, 2012, 10:35:15 AM »

You fuckin' troll, your 'advice' sucks like a hog. Everyone knows the crap you just spewed, so unless you know a few secrets to help me win at gambling, shut your mouth up. NOW GIVE ME A FEW THOUSAND DOLLARS! I want the money, and I want it now boy! You can Paypal the cash to me, hehe.

As I said before, there are no secrets. You lost money and you're bitter and angry. Learn your lesson and it will be money well-spent.
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Jon Harridan
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« Reply #38 on: April 20, 2012, 02:11:40 PM »

Real men dont try to tax people on an internet discussion board, hope this helps.

What do you know about being a real man?
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Jon Harridan
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« Reply #39 on: April 20, 2012, 02:12:29 PM »

Are you saying that 'Jon' would suck an old indian beggars balls dry in exchange for free chinese lessons, GCD?

No, I wouldn't, 'cos I'm not like you, little one! Grin Now stop being a homo; you stink of it.
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Jon Harridan
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« Reply #40 on: April 20, 2012, 02:14:44 PM »

As I said before, there are no secrets. You lost money and you're bitter and angry. Learn your lesson and it will be money well-spent.

Can you compensate me for the money I lost? It hurts like hell, so I would appreciate your help. A few grand from you would be like soothing balm for me.
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Jon Harridan
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« Reply #41 on: April 20, 2012, 04:41:12 PM »

Fellows, I've just figured out some revolutionary new roulette systems! You bet either on 1-18, plus the 2nd 12 and 3rd 12, or 19-36, plus the 1st 12 and 2nd 12. You alternate between these two options. That way you win something every time. Why not try it out? I've given you just one idea; have fun experimenting with the various possibilities on the roulette board. There are free roulette sites online where you may try out my ideas. For example, you can also put money on either red or black, plus money on any column (or any two columns), on every spin.  You can just alternate after each spin to attain maximum board coverage. These strategies don't work in the long run to accrue big bucks, and will probably even net you losses, but in the short term you can make a fistful of dollars.
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avxo
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« Reply #42 on: April 20, 2012, 04:45:07 PM »

Can you compensate me for the money I lost? It hurts like hell, so I would appreciate your help. A few grand from you would be like soothing balm for me.

I'm not in the habit of compensating people for their own idiocy. But I will offer a suggestion: Perhaps you should recoup your losses by doing G4P - you seem to like playing with balls, so it would be right up your alley.
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Jon Harridan
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« Reply #43 on: April 20, 2012, 04:54:39 PM »

I'm not in the habit of compensating people for their own idiocy. But I will offer a suggestion: Perhaps you should recoup your losses by doing G4P - you seem to like playing with balls, so it would be right up your alley.

Maybe I should conduct a robbery on you for the cash one of these days; an asshole like you seems to be asking for one. You're a tightass pennypincher, and probably as stingy as they come. Hehe, what are you to do when you get royally fucked one day? Yes, I admit I was foolish to gamble, but I'm not perfect, and am learning everyday. As for playing with balls, just because you're fond of it doesn't mean everybody is, so get your head straight on that. Wink
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« Reply #44 on: April 20, 2012, 05:58:17 PM »

MOS, You're basically, but not precisely correct about your bankroll getting smaller.
Even while playing Poker within a casino, the House will eventually get all the money over a long time period depending upon the size of the rake.

But it is definitely possible to win at any casino game over a short time period.

Casino winnings are 'mathmatical' but only become mathmatically precise over very long time periods. That's one of the reasons why casinos never close. The math will always be to their advantage over the long term

A gambler's best advantage is to gamble over short periods of time and never chase his loses.

Now if you want tolearn some really interesting shit, let's discuss the game of CRAPS.

Interesting posts you're making here, Stunt.  Please do share your thoughts on craps.
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Jon Harridan
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« Reply #45 on: April 20, 2012, 07:53:41 PM »

MOS, English wheels always have 36 numbers plus the "0" and the "00".


French  wheels have 36 numbers but only one "0".

As far as I know, there are no roulette wheels with the 1 - 36 numbers only.


Always stick to European roulette: there's just one 'zero'.
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avxo
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« Reply #46 on: April 21, 2012, 01:43:31 AM »

Maybe I should conduct a robbery on you for the cash one of these days; an asshole like you seems to be asking for one.

You could certainly try. It's a free country after all.


You're a tightass pennypincher, and probably as stingy as they come.

You sure seem to have a fascination with male asses.


Hehe, what are you to do when you get royally fucked one day?

If that happens, then you can be sure I won't go around on the Internet begging for sympathy and asking for help with playing roulette.


As for playing with balls, just because you're fond of it doesn't mean everybody is, so get your head straight on that. Wink

Ooh, such a witty comeback. Having lost the money, and by your own admission hurting, I figured you'd be all up to make a quick buck. Perhaps you aren't into G4P, but don't worry - it's only gay if you want it to be. And besides, you said you were looking for some "soothing balm" so the money shot should be an extra bonus for you. Two birds with one stone and whatnot.
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Jon Harridan
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« Reply #47 on: April 21, 2012, 05:20:23 PM »

You could certainly try. It's a free country after all.


You sure seem to have a fascination with male asses.


If that happens, then you can be sure I won't go around on the Internet begging for sympathy and asking for help with playing roulette.


Ooh, such a witty comeback. Having lost the money, and by your own admission hurting, I figured you'd be all up to make a quick buck. Perhaps you aren't into G4P, but don't worry - it's only gay if you want it to be. And besides, you said you were looking for some "soothing balm" so the money shot should be an extra bonus for you. Two birds with one stone and whatnot.

Did you perchance make your money in G4P? I'm just wondering because you seem to relish it. Now send me all your money at once, just because I say so. Maybe you can try to figure out a workable gambling strategy as you'll need it for sure after I clean you out of your life savings, hehe.
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« Reply #48 on: April 21, 2012, 10:36:56 PM »

JACK T, Unless JON objects, I’ll offer some interesting facts about the game of casino craps starting with the major equipment used in the game.

Some of you get biggers may find the following info regarding casino dice to be of interest

The following is a cut and paste job  in my effort to save time which I’ll eventually follow up with the best way to play the game if anyone is really interested.

I say “play the game” instead of “win the game”  because even if you learn to play like an expert, there is no assurance that you’ll leave the table as a winner .

The only thing that I can guarantee is that you’ll lose less over the long term if you understand the game and play it wisely.

So to start off  ….  Here are ome facts regarding casino dice ……

Casinos don't take any chances when it comes to profit so they don't use just any dice when thousands of dollars are riding on a roll.

Casino dice are called perfect or precision dice because of the way they are made.

They are as close to being perfect true cubes as possible, measured to within a fraction of a millimetre, manufactured so each die has an absolutely equal chance of landing on any one of its six faces.

Casino dice are specially hand made to within a tolerance of 0.0005 of an inch. The spots are drilled and filled with material that is equal in weight to the material removed. Usually sides are flush and edges sharp.  They are predominantly transparent red but can come in other colours like green, purple or blue.  Spots are usually solid but a number of different designs can be found.
  
It is believed all casino dice should have the same conventional arrangement of faces and spots.  They're right handed so that if the 1-spot is face up and the 2-spot is turned to face the left then the 3-spot is to the right of it with all opposing sides adding up to 7.  If the 1-spot is face up then the 3-spot runs diagonally up from the left and the 2-spot runs diagonally down from the left.  A different orientation of the spots is sometimes used on crooked dice (made to look like casino dice) so a cheat can differentiate them from a set of straight dice.  

Since the 1970s, and the move to corporate owned casinos, it has become more and more common for casino dice to have serial numbers printed on them. The number is 3 or 4 numeric digits, possibly with letters and dashes, usually printed on the 6-spot but can be found on any face except the 1-spot. This number denotes the issue and is used to prevent them being switched for crooked dice. Another security check sometimes used is having key letters printed on the underneath of spots which can only be viewed by looking through the transparent die.  The casino's name, sometimes location, and/or logo will often be printed on the dice too using a metallic foil.  The 1-spot usually bares the casino's name while the 2-spot may have the logo.

The most common size today is 3/4 inch but the size can vary with 5/8 inch and 11/16 inch the next most common sizes.

Casino dice were made of cellulose nitrate, starting around the 1920s, but sometime around the 1950s the manufacturers switched to cellulose acetate which is more durable. Very old casino dice have often started to crystallise and will have turned yellowish around the edges. This crystallisation is caused by age and exposure to moisture and ultra-violet light.  A completely crystallised die will disintegrate if pressure is applied.

Casino dice can be readily bought. However, many cheap casino dice are in fact rejects that haven't met the manufacturers standards or used dice that have been cancelled by their casino. Both rejects and used dice will have been defaced in some way.

Manufacturers call rejects culls. These are factory marked with a hot pin in the centre of the 4-spot or hot stamped with a number of 'X' or star symbols or just simply stamped with the word "VOID".  Some manufacturers stamp a gold "O" onto the four spot.
            
Used dice may be bought as souvenirs from many casinos although some refuse to let them go. When a die is taken out of play it will be cancelled. It could be that a hole is drilled through it or a crescent or circle is pressed into one side with a vice.  

Sometimes a gold bar is hot stamped on the six-spot.  A sharp pointed metal scribe is often used to press a small shallow mark into a face.  Some older dice were scratched or had a date or initials marked on them.  By state law Atlantic City casinos must drill all the way through their used dice.
      
If you want true perfect dice then pay the extra for a stick. A stick is a number of dice that are still in their sealed pack as delivered by the manufacturer.

That's more  than you need to know to play the game .... but it's a decent start.


* dice.jpg (2.94 KB, 106x129 - viewed 181 times.)
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« Reply #49 on: April 22, 2012, 02:22:48 AM »

Get off roulette house has to big advantage... If you enjoy the game play it for entertainment, if your there to make $ head to the sports book or craps table best odds, that's why you don't get comps at the sports book even if you betting 10k through out the day. Ive seen it done at blackjack that prob be my 3rd choice and the system there bet whatever your bet is and half of what you win as soon as you lose you go back to your initial bet. The cards roll for you and against you, so when your winning your leveraging your profits to make more profits and when there rolling against you you have your min bet out... I've also done it in pi-gow you have to have the fortune bonus avail some games have it and some not, and the idea there is 25% of what in the main circle goes in the fortune bonus circle. Ex if your bet is 200 in main circle ud put another 50 in the fortune bonus circle for total of 250 in play. If u hit 4 of kind which happen more than u think the fortune bonus pays 1250. Also what's cool about that game is your $ last longer cause u have to win both hands so u push alot...
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