Author Topic: The Atheist Thread  (Read 89985 times)

garebear

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Re: The Atheist Thread
« Reply #200 on: September 20, 2012, 07:17:30 AM »
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G

Man of Steel

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Re: The Atheist Thread
« Reply #201 on: September 20, 2012, 07:43:47 AM »
microevolution as you mentioned is macro evolution, your implication was that is was a distinct thing, hence the acceptance as you stated.

Seriously, why do you deny reality, perhaps god choose this method? but denying reality seems a bit odd to me.

I'm denying or affirming anything....I just responded to the flu shot bit LOL.  Y'all wanna have a knockdown, drag out discussion about evolution then by all means do that. 

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Re: The Atheist Thread
« Reply #202 on: September 20, 2012, 11:28:51 AM »
I'm denying or affirming anything....I just responded to the flu shot bit LOL.  Y'all wanna have a knockdown, drag out discussion about evolution then by all means do that. 

you using microevolution indicates that you don't realize that no one uses that term in the manner which you used it. Small changes are usually called adaptations, macroevolution is speciation. This terminology is not something one see's throughout the literature, it's not a bad terminology, some do use it, but it's mostly associated with creationism.

Guess I already know where you are going.

a_ahmed

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Re: The Atheist Thread
« Reply #203 on: September 20, 2012, 12:40:13 PM »
Because we don't come from monkeys stupid  8) Or sea creatures  ::)



I see what you did there

You know I also find it funny how you guys open up to this monkey business when someone is agreeing with you but when someone doesnt believe this crap, you start either denying it no no its ont like that or no no you dont understand.

I have an encyclopedia circa mid 90s which has pages tackling lucy and an evolution tree, etc...

I could draw pretty pictures and imagine fairy tales of evolution too and if i was agreeing with you, youd be like good job son! Spread the truth haleluya!  But if i was disagreeing youd be again "no no but you dont understand"

There is no evidence for your beliefs.

As mentioned already the only 'evolution' happening is adaptation in species within their dna design.

You can't explain squat, about how organs came to be and then the whole creatures as they are. You just speculate and resort to everything taking millions of years. Great proof you have.

I've debated alot of atheists throughout the years. Online and offline lol. Once out of shear humor I pretended I was pro-evolution and I did the same thing posting all sorts of info on evolution and they all were oh wow yeah yeah you go bro! Then when I did the same thing iwth another account and said how its fradulent etc... same information mind you, they were being mad  ;D Made me lolcopter alot

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Re: The Atheist Thread
« Reply #204 on: September 20, 2012, 12:45:13 PM »
Because we don't come from monkeys stupid  8) Or sea creatures  ::)



I see what you did there

You know I also find it funny how you guys open up to this monkey business when someone is agreeing with you but when someone doesnt believe this crap, you start either denying it no no its ont like that or no no you dont understand.

I have an encyclopedia circa mid 90s which has pages tackling lucy and an evolution tree, etc...

I could draw pretty pictures and imagine fairy tales of evolution too and if i was agreeing with you, youd be like good job son! Spread the truth haleluya!  But if i was disagreeing youd be again "no no but you dont understand"

There is no evidence for your beliefs.

As mentioned already the only 'evolution' happening is adaptation in species within their dna design.

You can't explain squat, about how organs came to be and then the whole creatures as they are. You just speculate and resort to everything taking millions of years. Great proof you have.

You are a shitty troll.

a_ahmed

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Re: The Atheist Thread
« Reply #205 on: September 20, 2012, 12:46:21 PM »


Look what I did there.. troll evolution  ;D

Such pretty drawings:


Man of Steel

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Re: The Atheist Thread
« Reply #206 on: September 20, 2012, 01:29:44 PM »
you using microevolution indicates that you don't realize that no one uses that term in the manner which you used it. Small changes are usually called adaptations, macroevolution is speciation. This terminology is not something one see's throughout the literature, it's not a bad terminology, some do use it, but it's mostly associated with creationism.

Guess I already know where you are going.

I've stated my position before and I will again because it's very simple.  I don't have all the answers.    

When a scientific breakthrough occurs I don't slam my eyes shut, cover my ears and start bellowing "LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA" and singing "Jesus Loves Me".  I like finding the harmony between God and man's discoveries within his creation.  Personally I don't have certainty about 6 24hr days of creation.  Is evolution the vehicle for God's creation?  I'm open to it.

Point is, I don't have all the answers and I'm humble enough to admit that.

Still, despite it all, I have experienced the risen Christ in my life and I want to share that with others with the hope that they can experience the same.      

Necrosis

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Re: The Atheist Thread
« Reply #207 on: September 20, 2012, 02:43:38 PM »
I've stated my position before and I will again because it's very simple.  I don't have all the answers.    

When a scientific breakthrough occurs I don't slam my eyes shut, cover my ears and start bellowing "LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA" and singing "Jesus Loves Me".  I like finding the harmony between God and man's discoveries within his creation.  I personally don't believe in 6 literal days of creation.  Is evolution one vehicle for God's creation?  I'm open to it.

Point is, I don't have all the answers and I'm humble enough to admit that.

Still, despite it all, I have experienced the risen Christ in my life and I want to share that with others with the hope that they can experience the same.      

I am completely fine with your position, completely. Read more on evolution, it is a fact, many things can be disputed within the theory, that is the magic of science. Does punctuated equilibrium occur? I don't know, let's try and disprove it. etc etc.


a_ahmed

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Re: The Atheist Thread
« Reply #208 on: September 20, 2012, 02:57:51 PM »
Where is this evidence you guys keep talking about  ???

Besides making claims visually about creatures appearing the same or similar then giving gaps in between creatures and citing it takes millions of years or hundreds of million years. I see no real hard evidence at all?

The fossil record shows species appearing then dissapearing. The end. No in betweeners.

Then when it comes to these 'theoretical' transitional species and the millions of years of 'evolution'... how did they develop their distinct organs. They didnt just go poof there's an eye. poof there's a heart. Poof there's a liver. Poof there's lungs. Poof there's legs and arms.. poof wings appear. Poof vagina and penis appear.

I do not deny creatures adapting to their environment, but i understand this within their genetic confines. For example amongst humans different hair, different skin. But we fundementally remain the same creature with all the components of organs, systems, etc...

Radiation or mutation dont turn us into super heroes. They cause us to die and damage dna.

The thing that baffles me is Darwin said sometihng along the lines of.. if a complex organism was found it would crumble his theory entirely and at his time he could not even see the contents of a cell, he saw a blob. We know today thanks to modern microscopes that cells are basically a small factory!

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Re: The Atheist Thread
« Reply #209 on: September 20, 2012, 03:04:32 PM »
I am completely fine with your position, completely. Read more on evolution, it is a fact, many things can be disputed within the theory, that is the magic of science. Does punctuated equilibrium occur? I don't know, let's try and disprove it. etc etc.


How can something be a fact if it is a theory? and avxo said that it is a possibility that the theory could be replaced with something different in the future, so how can this be a fact if there is a possibility that it can be replaced with a new theory or is avxo talking crap  ???

Necrosis

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Re: The Atheist Thread
« Reply #210 on: September 20, 2012, 03:18:59 PM »
How can something be a fact if it is a theory? and avxo said that it is a possibility that the theory could be replaced with something different in the future, so how can this be a fact if there is a possibility that it can be replaced with a new theory or is avxo talking crap  ???

the fact that things evolve is a fact, the theory of evolution could very well be replaced with a better theory that explains the data better or changes in light of new data. Mutations are a fact, natural selection is a fact, the fossil record is a fact, genetics are factual and so on, evolution is a theory posited by Darwin but drastically changed since his concept, the field of genetics which is immense was not even in play.

Avxo is correct.

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Re: The Atheist Thread
« Reply #211 on: September 20, 2012, 03:24:57 PM »
Where is this evidence you guys keep talking about  ???

Fossils, genetics, homology, observation etc.

Besides making claims visually about creatures appearing the same or similar then giving gaps in between creatures and citing it takes millions of years or hundreds of million years. I see no real hard evidence at all?

first i would like to point out that completely intact fossils are rare, they are the exception. Also, you seem to misunderstand evolution.

The fossil record shows species appearing then dissapearing. The end. No in betweeners.

Then when it comes to these 'theoretical' transitional species and the millions of years of 'evolution'... how did they develop their distinct organs. They didnt just go poof there's an eye. poof there's a heart. Poof there's a liver. Poof there's lungs. Poof there's legs and arms.. poof wings appear. Poof vagina and penis appear.

no, the eye for example, could simply be a light sensing cell, which allows a creature to know there is light. Then it increases the number of cells for acuity and more sensing power. The cells then differentiate wavelength and voila color. Now it starts to become pitted, which allows for orientation, where the light is coming from, which would be beneficial and so on. nothing appears magically. You are confused my friend, everything is in transition, you wouldn't see half eyes that don't work because it offers no benefit to the host, things don't evolve for the sake of it.

I do not deny creatures adapting to their environment, but i understand this within their genetic confines. For example amongst humans different hair, different skin. But we fundementally remain the same creature with all the components of organs, systems, etc...

Radiation or mutation dont turn us into super heroes. They cause us to die and damage dna.

radiation is vastly different from point deletions, or various other deletions. sickle cell isn't anything like radiation poisoning.

The thing that baffles me is Darwin said sometihng along the lines of.. if a complex organism was found it would crumble his theory entirely and at his time he could not even see the contents of a cell, he saw a blob. We know today thanks to modern microscopes that cells are basically a small factory!

As for the last part of your statement, I honestly don't know where you got this info, it's not true.

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Re: The Atheist Thread
« Reply #212 on: September 20, 2012, 03:25:15 PM »
Personally I don't have certainty about 6 24hr days of creation.
Are we even certain it means 6 24 hour days?
6 Days to god may be 1000's of years to people. I've always wondered about that, but I'm not well versed enough in the bible to argue what is said... but the question always sticks in my mind.... 6 days... to whom?

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Re: The Atheist Thread
« Reply #213 on: September 20, 2012, 03:27:18 PM »
Are we even certain it means 6 24 hour days?
6 Days to god may be 1000's of years to people. I've always wondered about that, but I'm not well versed enough in the bible to argue what is said... but the question always sticks in my mind.... 6 days... to whom?

why the confusion, what other type of days are there? I mean why speculate if you could never know the answer and we have an idea of what days are. I think it's clear as day what is meant, but because it's so incorrect, people twist it.

a_ahmed

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Re: The Atheist Thread
« Reply #214 on: September 20, 2012, 03:37:01 PM »
How can something be a fact if it is a theory? and avxo said that it is a possibility that the theory could be replaced with something different in the future, so how can this be a fact if there is a possibility that it can be replaced with a new theory or is avxo talking crap  ???

This lol

a_ahmed

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Re: The Atheist Thread
« Reply #215 on: September 20, 2012, 03:37:48 PM »
why the confusion, what other type of days are there? I mean why speculate if you could never know the answer and we have an idea of what days are. I think it's clear as day what is meant, but because it's so incorrect, people twist it.

Guess how many hours the days on other planets are? What is time? It is defined via certain referenced paramters. In our case the sun and moon play a big role in how we determine 'time'.

"He it is who made the sun a shining brightness and the moon a reflected light, and ordained for it stages that you might know the computation of years and the reckoning. Allah did not create it but with truth; He makes the signs manifest for a people of understanding Quran surah Jonas 10:5

In islamic scholarship the understanding of the 6 days can be understood as periods and not necessarily 24 hours as per earth hours and earth days.

a_ahmed

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Re: The Atheist Thread
« Reply #216 on: September 20, 2012, 03:50:59 PM »
Empty statements repeated by "Oh but you don't understand". Yet again!

Quote
Fossils, genetics, homology, observation etc.

You yourself say fossils are rare and barely complete in other words you could take any rubbish bones and imagine whatever you want and conclude AAAH this is what must have been. If your faith of darwinism was true, the earth would be LOADED with these transitional forms.

Genetics? Oh really? Besides knowing that DNA is source code on which all life is derived. There is nothing that shows that mutations add genetic material but rather distort it and destroy it. Radiation doesn't cause us to become super heroes.

You can't start with a small 'bit' of dna then magically get a whole creature with developed heart, brain, liver, arms, muscles, skeletal system, nervous system, reproductive system, male and female repsectively unique of each other. It's programmed to work in harmony COMPLETE and whole. That's why otherwise we have DEFORMITIES if something is wrong with DNA or there is DNA damage

Oh I know... it took 'hundreds of millions of yeras'. That's so damn baseless you cant begin to imagine as you try to make me 'imagine' all this. It's ludicrous

I will post some examples which basically make a ridicule of the claim that genetics 'prove' that we are evolved. More on that later.

Homology? oOoOoOh classifying bones! That proves nothing. It's like a kid given a game to make similar things stand together in order. It means nothing.

Observation? Yeah okay! If I observe what's around us it shows in the absolute OPPOSITE of any of your claims! Unless you think that seeing visually 'similar' creatures with necks means that one must have evolved from another so its neck grew over millions of years.. and one who had legs magically transformed into wings.

That's why I said xmen, spiderman, superman, wonder woman... thats what you are proposing. Fiction and imagination. Not reality.

Quote

first i would like to point out that completely intact fossils are rare, they are the exception. Also, you seem to misunderstand evolution.

Lol. So you use your IMAGINATION to DRAW visually representations of creatures you've NEVER SEEN or know for sure what they are. Brilliant!

How is that a PIG TOOTH becomes THIS:



Oh it was a 'mistake' riiight. It just shows what 'science' you employ to believe in this hocus pocus evolution theory.

Quote
no, the eye for example, could simply be a light sensing cell, which allows a creature to know there is light. Then it increases the number of cells for acuity and more sensing power. The cells then differentiate wavelength and voila color. Now it starts to become pitted, which allows for orientation, where the light is coming from, which would be beneficial and so on. nothing appears magically. You are confused my friend, everything is in transition, you wouldn't see half eyes that don't work because it offers no benefit to the host, things don't evolve for the sake of it.

Brilliant so you have an understanding of how a biological camera works. I do too. I love it, its beautiful its pretty amazing. But I dont conclude it magically evolved from some primitive cell then hundreds of milloins of years later through some unknown means VOILA evolution theory you have a whole eye that is now symmetrically a part of a human's face that sees in 3D!

And you are saying this magically just developed on its own somehow because it 'sensed' something and then POOF an eye? HMMMM strong evidence!







Hmmm evolution!:

A million years ago:


Today:


The future:

avxo

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Re: The Atheist Thread
« Reply #217 on: September 20, 2012, 04:34:23 PM »
I think I'm done "debating" with people whose collective IQ is "potato". Man of Steel, even if we disagree you're a class act.

a_ahmed

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Re: The Atheist Thread
« Reply #218 on: September 20, 2012, 04:34:56 PM »
I think in done "debating" with people whose collective IQ is "potato". Man of Steel, even if we disagree you're a class act.

 ::) Okay monkey boy here's a banana for you but pick wisely:

















































Shockwave

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Re: The Atheist Thread
« Reply #219 on: September 20, 2012, 04:37:43 PM »
Guess how many hours the days on other planets are? What is time? It is defined via certain referenced paramters. In our case the sun and moon play a big role in how we determine 'time'.

In islamic scholarship the understanding of the 6 days can be understood as periods and not necessarily 24 hours as per earth hours and earth days.

This is what I was speaking of. We define a day as sunrise to sunrise (on this planet). We have no idea how an entity like "God" would define it, especially since creation (be definition) happened PRIOR to humans coming into existence.

It could have been that Evolution is the path that "God" used to bring us into being, like someone making a complex drawing, taking shape over thousands of years and changing as "he/she/it" saw fit over the time period.

*Note that I am not speaking of any particular religion, but in general about the possibility that both sides are somewhat correct*

a_ahmed

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Re: The Atheist Thread
« Reply #220 on: September 20, 2012, 04:41:07 PM »
In addition to the last verse:

"He it is who made the sun a shining brightness and the moon a reflected light, and ordained for it stages that you might know the computation of years and the reckoning. Allah did not create it but with truth; He makes the signs manifest for a people of understanding surah Jonas 10:5

Here is another:
“Yet they ask thee to hasten on the Punishment! But God will not fail in His Promise. Verily a Day in the sight of thy Lord is like a thousand years of your reckoning.”  Surah The Pilgrimage 22:47

Necrosis

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Re: The Atheist Thread
« Reply #221 on: September 20, 2012, 05:36:41 PM »
Empty statements repeated by "Oh but you don't understand". Yet again!

You yourself say fossils are rare and barely complete in other words you could take any rubbish bones and imagine whatever you want and conclude AAAH this is what must have been. If your faith of darwinism was true, the earth would be LOADED with these transitional forms.

Genetics? Oh really? Besides knowing that DNA is source code on which all life is derived. There is nothing that shows that mutations add genetic material but rather distort it and destroy it. Radiation doesn't cause us to become super heroes.

You can't start with a small 'bit' of dna then magically get a whole creature with developed heart, brain, liver, arms, muscles, skeletal system, nervous system, reproductive system, male and female repsectively unique of each other. It's programmed to work in harmony COMPLETE and whole. That's why otherwise we have DEFORMITIES if something is wrong with DNA or there is DNA damage

Oh I know... it took 'hundreds of millions of yeras'. That's so damn baseless you cant begin to imagine as you try to make me 'imagine' all this. It's ludicrous

I will post some examples which basically make a ridicule of the claim that genetics 'prove' that we are evolved. More on that later.

Homology? oOoOoOh classifying bones! That proves nothing. It's like a kid given a game to make similar things stand together in order. It means nothing.

Observation? Yeah okay! If I observe what's around us it shows in the absolute OPPOSITE of any of your claims! Unless you think that seeing visually 'similar' creatures with necks means that one must have evolved from another so its neck grew over millions of years.. and one who had legs magically transformed into wings.

That's why I said xmen, spiderman, superman, wonder woman... thats what you are proposing. Fiction and imagination. Not reality.

Lol. So you use your IMAGINATION to DRAW visually representations of creatures you've NEVER SEEN or know for sure what they are. Brilliant!

How is that a PIG TOOTH becomes THIS:



Oh it was a 'mistake' riiight. It just shows what 'science' you employ to believe in this hocus pocus evolution theory.

Brilliant so you have an understanding of how a biological camera works. I do too. I love it, its beautiful its pretty amazing. But I dont conclude it magically evolved from some primitive cell then hundreds of milloins of years later through some unknown means VOILA evolution theory you have a whole eye that is now symmetrically a part of a human's face that sees in 3D!

And you are saying this magically just developed on its own somehow because it 'sensed' something and then POOF an eye? HMMMM strong evidence!







Hmmm evolution!:

A million years ago:


Today:


The future:


jesus christ man, read a book. Pressure from the environment causes adaptation, I just went through a brief example of how a light sensitive cell could evolve into an eye, we see all these forms in these stages in life today. It's clear as day, nothing magical about it.

a_ahmed

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Re: The Atheist Thread
« Reply #222 on: September 20, 2012, 05:42:58 PM »
Yes I read books thanks for asking.

What are you talking about? Cells start seeing on their own  ::) Wow I'm impressed. COUGH lol sarcasm COUGH

Every day huh? Yeah, wait let me fetch me a microscope and observe a cell that starts seeing on its own and wait.. wait a minute... don't need that microscope, it just happened to have become an eye just like that. Thank you evolution theory.

Such wonderful facts :)

Oh and btw, I've seen this before:



I laughed so damn hard... that he is putting together an eye in lego style and claiming 'this animal, this animal, this animal'

Such delusional deception. Evidence my ass. This is nothing but wishful conjecture and fiction.

Understanding what the eye is composed of and how it works is SCIENCE.... what you darwinist/evolution theorists suggest is bullocks.

Every time atheists try to act all superior to theists with their 'superior knowledge' I just roll my eyes and think back at the many years of back and forth denial about what evolution theory is and isn't.

In the end you think we come from monkeys i mean primates, and then what some kinda rodents/rats and whatever other bs in between then eventually sea creatures. Yeah okay  ::)

Baseless non-sense that you have codified as FACTS. Sorry.. fool someone else.

What you call as evidence is nothing but assumptions, fiction, imagination and conjecture. And to make it that much more ludicrous and unprovable you attach ridiculously large figures of millions of years, hundreds of millions of years as if such grand numbers make the lie any less true

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Re: The Atheist Thread
« Reply #223 on: September 20, 2012, 08:34:28 PM »
The troll is strong with this one...

a_ahmed

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Re: The Atheist Thread
« Reply #224 on: September 20, 2012, 10:54:55 PM »
Just enjoying tearing apart your invincible super factual super scientific super accurate fairy tale. Why? Because whenever atheists come in to 'prove' theists as 'unscientific' or believing in 'no evidence' etc... one just needs to ask them well what do you believe and take a hard look at the darwinism religion :)