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Montague
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« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2012, 12:55:23 PM » |
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I’ll also give credit where it is due:
Hogan wasn’t the worst worker. From a technical standpoint, he had some decent matches very early on in Japan. His later work is often criticized, but consider the timeframe - he gave the fans what they wanted in terms of physique and “cheese.” He also carried a very green Tiny Lister, who had almost ZERO wrestling skills/experience, through a solid PPV program.
Unfortunately, I can’t say as much about Hellwig. He, too, was good at giving the fans what they wanted. I just don’t think he had as much to give. Maybe he’d have gone a bit further had he arrived on the big stage about five years sooner, when the audience was fresher and more primed for that type of gimmick. Not to mention that Hogan is a tough act to follow. Even then, I don’t think Jim would have reached the same heights as Hulkster. Hogan was just an all around better performer and businessman.
One more observation I have about Hellwig concerns his I-C run being better than his stint with the big belt. I agree wholeheartedly. But, I think the reason for that is that, by the time he got the big belt, we’d seen his best stuff, and his act was already becoming tired and transparent.
I’m still a fan of that period in WWF history, and I’ll always be a fan of the Ultimate Warrior character during that run. However, there’s plenty of other stuff that makes me mark out more than that. Regardless, he deserves a big spot in the history books.
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littleguns
Getbig IV
Gender: 
Posts: 3564
Not Hating, Just Splaining!!
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« Reply #26 on: May 09, 2012, 11:53:13 AM » |
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Montague
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« Reply #27 on: May 09, 2012, 12:19:22 PM » |
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Monty - when you say other things make you "mark out" would it be... I'm a total mark for most things involving: Hennig, Steamboat, Heenan, Karl Gotch, Rude, mid-80's Savage, Bulldogs, NWA Flair, original ECW, Lance Storm commentaries, Kurt Angle/Chris Benoit encounters, LJN & Hasbro wrestling figures, shoot interviews with workers from the 60's-80's... ...off the top of my head! |
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The Showstoppa
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« Reply #28 on: May 09, 2012, 07:36:23 PM » |
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I'm a total mark for most things involving:
Hennig,
Steamboat,
Heenan,
Karl Gotch,
Rude,
mid-80's Savage,
Bulldogs,
NWA Flair,
original ECW,
Lance Storm commentaries,
Kurt Angle/Chris Benoit encounters,
LJN & Hasbro wrestling figures,
shoot interviews with workers from the 60's-80's...
...off the top of my head!
minus Heenan and the wrestling figures, but add Mid-Atlantic wrestling, Road Warriors, Horsemen and RVD vs Lynn and I'm all in. |
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Montague
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« Reply #29 on: May 09, 2012, 07:40:51 PM » |
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minus Heenan and the wrestling figures, but add Mid-Atlantic wrestling, Road Warriors, Horsemen and RVD vs Lynn and I'm all in.
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cheftim
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« Reply #30 on: May 13, 2012, 09:03:43 PM » |
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I think any wrestler could have worked in the Attitude Era if they changed with the times. Batista, who I believe is one of the most over rated Wrestlers ever, could have made it in the Attitude era. Warrior was way better then he ever was. Timmy only knows about Warriors backstage personality from you guys but watched his entire Federarion career from start to end. Character wise he easily could have been in the Attitude Era. What would the Warrior be like as a heel? I don't think he's one of the best wrestlers ever at all. But Timmy saw him live many times. Only a few times I have seen the crowd go completely out of control and Warrior was able to do this to crowds. Will always be bitter about him pinning Hulkster at VI.
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Hulkster
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« Reply #31 on: May 14, 2012, 04:45:51 PM » |
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He also carried a very green Tiny Lister, who had almost ZERO wrestling skills/experience, through a solid PPV program.
hang on  . during the entire program Zues never did one single move. all he did was pound on hogan's traps/back. and choke him. Only a few times I have seen the crowd go completely out of control and Warrior was able to do this to crowds same here. I saw him face honky, andre in a cage, rude, Hogan (I was in grade 6 when I was at skydome for wm 6) his crowd reaction was always crazy! wrestlers today can't connect because they can't compare to the power of the Warrior |
Flower Boy Ran Away
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cheftim
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« Reply #32 on: May 15, 2012, 01:29:09 AM » |
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Timmy has been going to see the Federation since 4th or 5th grade. I would say the majority of the top Superstars just got the happy to see you pop. Warrior just totally brought the crowd to a completely different level.
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Montague
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« Reply #33 on: May 15, 2012, 04:35:01 AM » |
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I think any wrestler could have worked in the Attitude Era if they changed with the times. Oh, absolutely. And, those were two points I was making above: Every wrestler in the Fed at that time changed his/her character with the dawn of the attitude era. Hellwig never evolved at all during his career, which is why I doubt he'd have made it in the AE. He had everything else - the muscle, the hair, the music, the energy, and most of all, the PUSH. Management was willing to push him, they WANTED to push him, and they DID push him. When you've got all that going for you still can't run, well... Hellwig had other facets working against him, too. His ego greatly impaired his business acumen, and his stubbornness and unprofessional/poor attitude also cut short what could (and should) have been a stellar ring career. |
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Hulkster
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« Reply #34 on: May 15, 2012, 07:24:16 AM » |
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they pushed him because of his insane connection to the crowd.
even in 1988 when he was facing Honky prior to winning the IC title the crowd would go nuts.
they actually headlined the show at maple leaf gardens here in toronto when I saw the WWF for the first time.
Hogan vs bad news was the second last match.
warrior honkey was last. warrior won by DQ but 'stole' the belt. posed with it after the match. Warrior had honky up for the press slam and Jimmy Hart came in and hit him with the mega phone.
he won it two days later at summmer slam 88.
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cheftim
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« Reply #35 on: May 15, 2012, 08:35:04 AM » |
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Another great part I have to say about Warrior was when VKM was calling his matches. The ULLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL LLLLLLLLLLLLTIMATE WARRIOR!
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The Showstoppa
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« Reply #36 on: May 15, 2012, 11:54:45 AM » |
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No doubt that UW got "a pop" back in that time when he entered. I saw him live against Andre and he was WAY over.....but, the way wrestlers got pops during the attitude era was totally different. UW was on the tail-end of the cartoonish WWF and fit it perfectly. Didn't he even actually have a comic book? But that time period was vastly different than the DX, Austin, etc... attitude era. He would have gotten abused during the promos and with the veiled references to the backstage stuff. I don't think his ego would have allowed it.
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Montague
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« Reply #37 on: May 15, 2012, 03:57:34 PM » |
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No doubt that UW got "a pop" back in that time when he entered. I saw him live against Andre and he was WAY over.....but, the way wrestlers got pops during the attitude era was totally different. UW was on the tail-end of the cartoonish WWF and fit it perfectly. Didn't he even actually have a comic book? But that time period was vastly different than the DX, Austin, etc... attitude era. He would have gotten abused during the promos and with the veiled references to the backstage stuff. I don't think his ego would have allowed it.
Agree. |
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