Author Topic: Warrior and Attitude Era (Read 15060 times)

Montague · « **Reply #25 on:** May 09, 2012, 12:19:22 PM »

Quote from: littleguns on May 09, 2012, 11:53:13 AM

Monty - when you say other things make you "mark out" would it be...

I'm a total mark for most things involving:

Hennig,
Steamboat,
Heenan,
Karl Gotch,
Rude,
mid-80's Savage,
Bulldogs,
NWA Flair,
original ECW,
Lance Storm commentaries,
Kurt Angle/Chris Benoit encounters,
LJN & Hasbro wrestling figures,
shoot interviews with workers from the 60's-80's...

...off the top of my head!

The Showstoppa · « **Reply #26 on:** May 09, 2012, 07:36:23 PM »

Quote from: Montague on May 09, 2012, 12:19:22 PM

I'm a total mark for most things involving:

Hennig,
Steamboat,
Heenan,
Karl Gotch,
Rude,
mid-80's Savage,
Bulldogs,
NWA Flair,
original ECW,
Lance Storm commentaries,
Kurt Angle/Chris Benoit encounters,
LJN & Hasbro wrestling figures,
shoot interviews with workers from the 60's-80's...

...off the top of my head!

minus Heenan and the wrestling figures, but add Mid-Atlantic wrestling, Road Warriors, Horsemen and RVD vs Lynn and I'm all in.

Montague · « **Reply #27 on:** May 09, 2012, 07:40:51 PM »

Quote from: The Showstoppa on May 09, 2012, 07:36:23 PM

minus Heenan and the wrestling figures, but add Mid-Atlantic wrestling, Road Warriors, Horsemen and RVD vs Lynn and I'm all in.

Hulkster · « **Reply #28 on:** May 14, 2012, 04:45:51 PM »

Quote

He also carried a very green Tiny Lister, who had almost ZERO wrestling skills/experience, through a solid PPV program.

hang on

. during the entire program Zues never did one single move.

all he did was pound on hogan's traps/back. and choke him.

Quote

Only a few times I have seen the crowd go completely out of control and Warrior was able to do this to crowds

same here. I saw him face honky, andre in a cage, rude, Hogan (I was in grade 6 when I was at skydome for wm 6)

his crowd reaction was always crazy! wrestlers today can't connect because they can't compare to the power of the Warrior

Montague · « **Reply #29 on:** May 15, 2012, 04:35:01 AM »

Quote from: cheftim on May 13, 2012, 09:03:43 PM

I think any wrestler could have worked in the Attitude Era if they changed with the times.

Oh, absolutely. And, those were two points I was making above: Every wrestler in the Fed at that time changed his/her character with the dawn of the attitude era. Hellwig never evolved at all during his career, which is why I doubt he'd have made it in the AE. He had everything else - the muscle, the hair, the music, the energy, and most of all, the PUSH. Management was willing to push him, they WANTED to push him, and they DID push him. When you've got all that going for you still can't run, well...

Hellwig had other facets working against him, too. His ego greatly impaired his business acumen, and his stubbornness and unprofessional/poor attitude also cut short what could (and should) have been a stellar ring career.

Hulkster · « **Reply #30 on:** May 15, 2012, 07:24:16 AM »

they pushed him because of his insane connection to the crowd.

even in 1988 when he was facing Honky prior to winning the IC title the crowd would go nuts.

they actually headlined the show at maple leaf gardens here in toronto when I saw the WWF for the first time.

Hogan vs bad news was the second last match.

warrior honkey was last. warrior won by DQ but 'stole' the belt. posed with it after the match. Warrior had honky up for the press slam and Jimmy Hart came in and hit him with the mega phone.

he won it two days later at summmer slam 88.

The Showstoppa · « **Reply #31 on:** May 15, 2012, 11:54:45 AM »

No doubt that UW got "a pop" back in that time when he entered. I saw him live against Andre and he was WAY over.....but, the way wrestlers got pops during the attitude era was totally different. UW was on the tail-end of the cartoonish WWF and fit it perfectly. Didn't he even actually have a comic book? But that time period was vastly different than the DX, Austin, etc... attitude era. He would have gotten abused during the promos and with the veiled references to the backstage stuff. I don't think his ego would have allowed it.

Montague · « **Reply #32 on:** May 15, 2012, 03:57:34 PM »

Quote from: The Showstoppa on May 15, 2012, 11:54:45 AM

No doubt that UW got "a pop" back in that time when he entered. I saw him live against Andre and he was WAY over.....but, the way wrestlers got pops during the attitude era was totally different. UW was on the tail-end of the cartoonish WWF and fit it perfectly. Didn't he even actually have a comic book? But that time period was vastly different than the DX, Austin, etc... attitude era. He would have gotten abused during the promos and with the veiled references to the backstage stuff. I don't think his ego would have allowed it.

Agree.

Montague · « **Reply #33 on:** April 10, 2014, 02:45:16 PM »

Bump...

Playboy · « **Reply #34 on:** April 10, 2014, 03:24:20 PM »

Lol at the LJN figures. ..I even had the cage.

Thin Lizzy · « **Reply #35 on:** April 10, 2014, 03:26:24 PM »

There's a two part 2hr interview with UW from 2012 on MLW radio. Damn, I can't keep up with all these podcasts.

Montague · « **Reply #36 on:** April 10, 2014, 05:01:24 PM »

I bumped this thread to look at some of the comments we made about Ultimate Jim just a couple of years ago because it seems like "everybody" is now singing his praises after being inducted, and especially now that he's gone.

I stand by what I said in this and other threads. I gave him his due, but unlike so many of his detractors, I won't pretend that my criticisms are suddenly invalid, or fail to acknowledge that I said them.

Playboy · « **Reply #37 on:** April 10, 2014, 05:33:47 PM »

IMO Warrior fit perfectly in the eighties and early ninties. There was noooooo room for him in the attitude era. By then fans were 20-35 years old predominately in the crowd and would rather have watched Austin drink beer...Mankind fall off cells and Rock bitch slap people.

Playboy · « **Reply #38 on:** April 10, 2014, 05:39:46 PM »

Quote from: Montague on May 07, 2012, 02:23:39 AM

The feuds, yes. Their build-ups lasted for months - some of them even close to year. But, once they had their big match...POOF!! It was all over. There was never any "part 2."
Think Piper, Bundy, Killer Kahn, One Man Gang, and the guys you mentioned above; with the exception of Andre, Hogan seldom worked another program with any of them. That's why the Hogan character wore out. After he did his paradigmatic mow-down, they had to bring in someone new to feed him, or at least build up someone to pose a threat.
The act got tired, fans saw through it, and that's why Hogan tanked in WCW until they re-invented his character.

Bullseye...and thats exactly what they need to do with Cena.

Montague · « **Reply #39 on:** April 10, 2014, 06:10:45 PM »

Quote from: Playboy on April 10, 2014, 05:39:46 PM

Bullseye...and thats exactly what they need to do with Cena.

You mean reinvent him ala "Hollywood Hogan?"

Playboy · « **Reply #40 on:** April 10, 2014, 06:21:28 PM »

Quote from: Montague on April 10, 2014, 06:10:45 PM

You mean reinvent him ala "Hollywood Hogan?"

Yup...only hurdle is it won't work on PG programming. WWE generates huge revenue with its PG content because it can't get it through arena sales. They are only averaging 2-5 thousand on house shows and 9-15,000 on live RAW. That my friend is straight from "the source". Thats why you see all this Scooby Doo and Muppet nonsense.

Montague · « **Reply #41 on:** April 10, 2014, 06:26:28 PM »

Quote from: Playboy on April 10, 2014, 06:21:28 PM

Yup...only hurdle is it won't work on PG programming. WWE generates huge revenue with its PG content because it can't get it through arena sales. They are only averaging 2-5 thousand on house shows and 9-15,000 on live RAW. That my friend is straight from "the source". Thats why you see all this Scooby Doo and Muppet nonsense.

Those figures are pitiful compared to what they did 15 years ago. I can't believe it's been that long already!

MCWAY · « **Reply #42 on:** April 10, 2014, 08:27:46 PM »

Quote from: littleguns on May 04, 2012, 11:33:55 AM

Hypothetical......

Warior never parted ways with Vince and was around for the Attitude era. Would he have faired well against Austin, Rock, Angle Jericho etc???

Board seems slow this week so putting something new out there..

There may not have been an Attitude era, had Warrior stayed. The loss of Bret Hart wouldn't have stung as much and McMahon would have simply pushed the "New Generation" era further. He'd already revamped Warrior to fit into that mold.

MCWAY · « **Reply #43 on:** April 10, 2014, 08:31:36 PM »

And speaking of "Attitude"

I'm watching "Self-Destruction of the Ultimate Warrior" again. On the part where they're talking about Warrior getting canned in '96 for not showing up for live events, they have a poster for the "WWF Attitude Adjustment Tour". The banner has an event at the Cow Palace in (I believe) Anaheim, CA on July 25 of that year.

And, I kid you not, the top-billed match is a "Federation Title Match" with Warrior as champion against Vader. The undercard is 'Taker vs. Mankind, Sid vs. Bulldog, and an IC match with Ahmed Johnson defending against Goldust.

Did I miss something here?

Karl Kox · « **Reply #44 on:** April 10, 2014, 09:51:27 PM »

Quote from: Montague on May 07, 2012, 03:23:59 PM

Vince isn't the only one to have damaged wrestling.

Dusty Rhodes
Jim Herd
Kevin Sullivan
Hulk Hogan
Bill Watts
Vince Russo
Bill Bush
Ted Turner
Stephanie McMahon
Dixie Carter
and Bruce Hart...

...have all done their share.

VINCE RUSSO
VINCE RUSSO
VINCE RUSSO!!!!!!

Playboy · « **Reply #45 on:** April 11, 2014, 01:27:43 AM »

Quote from: Montague on April 10, 2014, 06:26:28 PM

Those figures are pitiful compared to what they did 15 years ago. I can't believe it's been that long already!

Especially if you were on the "A" show

MCWAY · « **Reply #46 on:** April 11, 2014, 06:02:40 AM »

Quote from: Montague on May 15, 2012, 04:35:01 AM

Oh, absolutely. And, those were two points I was making above: Every wrestler in the Fed at that time changed his/her character with the dawn of the attitude era. Hellwig never evolved at all during his career, which is why I doubt he'd have made it in the AE. He had everything else - the muscle, the hair, the music, the energy, and most of all, the PUSH. Management was willing to push him, they WANTED to push him, and they DID push him. When you've got all that going for you still can't run, well...

Hellwig had other facets working against him, too. His ego greatly impaired his business acumen, and his stubbornness and unprofessional/poor attitude also cut short what could (and should) have been a stellar ring career.

But, many of the stars of the Attitude era were just amped- up versions of their normal selves. The " new generation version of Warrior was basically that, too. But, it made him more cartoonish than he was in the late 80s/early 90s.

Plus, with the corny gimmicks that Austin, Rock, and Helmsley had, there wasn't anywhere to go but up.

Melkor · « **Reply #47 on:** April 11, 2014, 09:45:47 AM »

Quote from: Montague on April 10, 2014, 05:01:24 PM

I bumped this thread to look at some of the comments we made about Ultimate Jim just a couple of years ago because it seems like "everybody" is now singing his praises after being inducted, and especially now that he's gone.

I stand by what I said in this and other threads. I gave him his due, but unlike so many of his detractors, I won't pretend that my criticisms are suddenly invalid, or fail to acknowledge that I said them.

Good point, Warrior was a figure of ridicule and disliked by many within the wrestling industry and by fans for years. Then he is inducted to HoF and dies and everybody is a Warrior mark all of a sudden.

MCWAY · « **Reply #48 on:** April 11, 2014, 09:55:20 AM »

Quote from: Melkor on April 11, 2014, 09:45:47 AM

Good point, Warrior was a figure of ridicule and disliked by many within the wrestling industry and by fans for years. Then he is inducted to HoF and dies and everybody is a Warrior mark all of a sudden.

How much validity do you put in the criticisms of Helwig from the "Self-Destruction of the Ultimate Warrior" video?

Melkor · « **Reply #49 on:** April 11, 2014, 10:08:59 AM »

Quote from: MCWAY on April 11, 2014, 09:55:20 AM

How much validity do you put in the criticisms of Helwig from the "Self-Destruction of the Ultimate Warrior" video?

It was very harsh and unfair I think. Sure he did some shitty things like holding WWF to ransom for half a million and thinking it was a one man show but he also did some positive things. He did get over big time - he was arguably the biggest star of the 80's/early 90's wrestling boom after Hogan and Macho Man. Those three entered mainstream popular culture - most newspapers worldwide have commented on Warriors death in the last few days.

For WWE to release a DVD burying him completely, which they have never done to anybody else, at a stage when he was gone from the business for years, was wrong. Many have done far worse to WWF and Vince personally but never got that treatment.