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Author Topic: Nolvadex as a "natural" test booster  (Read 8720 times)
howardroark
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« Reply #25 on: May 07, 2012, 05:03:51 PM »

Besides liver toxicity aromasin is EXTREMELY expensive in comparison with nolva.

I am talking about 150€ for a month supply of aromasin instead of 8€ for dufine or 17€ for the nolva for a month supply. Even anastrozol is cheaper. But if the price where right i would give it a shot Wink!


Aromasin is hardly liver toxic. Not a big deal at all. And it's pretty cheap when you look around research chem suppliers.
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andreisdaman
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« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2012, 09:02:23 PM »

short answer, yes

didn't know that..thought it was only for massive loads..anybody know how i can get my doctor to prescribe?
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animal1991
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« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2012, 11:12:03 PM »

clomid is a test booster???
Yeah
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animal1991
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« Reply #28 on: May 07, 2012, 11:14:01 PM »

@falco:
After how long do you "feel" the test increase from clomid? Does it take a few weeks?
I'm gonna start of with 25mg/day and see how it goes!
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Marlo Stanfield
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« Reply #29 on: May 08, 2012, 02:12:04 AM »

didn't know that..thought it was only for massive loads..anybody know how i can get my doctor to prescribe?

if you want to go the correct path and get it from the doc, your first step is to get a blood work and see what your test levels are...also go read on Low Testosterone symptoms, and before the doc even gives ytou your bloodwork results, go bitch to him that you feel tired, have no interest in sex, cant get a hardon, feel like you have zero energy etc.. when he shows you your bloodwork and  if your testosterone is low, or on the lower side, i think he will most likely send you to an endo... do the same thing with the endo, and he will give you an option on going on clomid or test ( usually they give option, sometime he will just start you off on clomid).



Or....clomid is pretty easy to get on the market, liquid and pill forms, i dont think its a scheduled drug, so you can just get it from chemical research companies... thats as far as i'll guide you on open board, PM me if you have any questions
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falco
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« Reply #30 on: May 08, 2012, 07:38:21 AM »

@falco:
After how long do you "feel" the test increase from clomid? Does it take a few weeks?
I'm gonna start of with 25mg/day and see how it goes!

If i take it at night i have a super boner in the next morning. Whith me is that fast. Of course you feel stronger results in 3-4 days.
But usually i use it at noon or so otherwise i have trouble sleeping.
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andreisdaman
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« Reply #31 on: May 08, 2012, 10:52:41 AM »

if you want to go the correct path and get it from the doc, your first step is to get a blood work and see what your test levels are...also go read on Low Testosterone symptoms, and before the doc even gives ytou your bloodwork results, go bitch to him that you feel tired, have no interest in sex, cant get a hardon, feel like you have zero energy etc.. when he shows you your bloodwork and  if your testosterone is low, or on the lower side, i think he will most likely send you to an endo... do the same thing with the endo, and he will give you an option on going on clomid or test ( usually they give option, sometime he will just start you off on clomid).



Or....clomid is pretty easy to get on the market, liquid and pill forms, i dont think its a scheduled drug, so you can just get it from chemical research companies... thats as far as i'll guide you on open board, PM me if you have any questions

Good job!,,thanks a lot!.I will be in touch
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howardroark
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« Reply #32 on: May 08, 2012, 11:44:11 AM »

Go ahead, take clomid as a stand-alone... I hope you'll enjoy your new tits.  Roll Eyes
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animal1991
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« Reply #33 on: May 08, 2012, 12:16:53 PM »

Go ahead, take clomid as a stand-alone... I hope you'll enjoy your new tits.  Roll Eyes
Why you say this?
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Marlo Stanfield
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« Reply #34 on: May 08, 2012, 12:25:32 PM »

Go ahead, take clomid as a stand-alone... I hope you'll enjoy your new tits.  Roll Eyes

thats stupid to generalize like that... if dosed PROPERLY, he can see a boost in his test, without sides... just like testosterone, if you go crazy with it, then yeah enjoy your new tits, if you dose properly, well enjoy your new body and better life...
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howardroark
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« Reply #35 on: May 08, 2012, 12:29:00 PM »

Why you say this?

Clomid does not block estrogen in breast tissue. So it'll boost your test levels, but you'll suffer from higher estrogen levels as well, and because clomid doe snot block estrogen in breast tissue you might grow tits. Though Marlo is right that this might not happen if dosed properly, why would anyone even want to deal with higher estrogen levels? Ditch the SERM for an AI.
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Arnold jr
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« Reply #36 on: May 08, 2012, 02:03:07 PM »

A lot of conflicting opinions in this thread, that's for sure. Anyway, simply commenting on the original post...yes, Nolvadex can increase your natural testosterone levels...if it couldn't, doctors wouldn't prescribe it in some cases to treat low testosterone. I've seen a few studies that showed a 50% plus increase in low level men...for example, if your total test is at 200-300ng/dl this would put you at 300-450ng/dl.

As a side-note, you don't hear about it much anymore, but a lot of guys used to run 10-20mg of Nolvadex a day with 10mg of Dianabol as a bridge in-between cycles. Usually a short 4-5wk bridge...I think a lot of guys did this if they were simply in-between because they didn't have what they needed but it seemed to be effective. That kind of use would give you total androgen replacement and a nice boost of test. I don't know, people may still do it, but I can't remember the last time I've heard or read of anyone doing it.
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falco
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« Reply #37 on: May 09, 2012, 06:24:19 AM »

A lot of conflicting opinions in this thread, that's for sure. Anyway, simply commenting on the original post...yes, Nolvadex can increase your natural testosterone levels...if it couldn't, doctors wouldn't prescribe it in some cases to treat low testosterone. I've seen a few studies that showed a 50% plus increase in low level men...for example, if your total test is at 200-300ng/dl this would put you at 300-450ng/dl.

As a side-note, you don't hear about it much anymore, but a lot of guys used to run 10-20mg of Nolvadex a day with 10mg of Dianabol as a bridge in-between cycles. Usually a short 4-5wk bridge...I think a lot of guys did this if they were simply in-between because they didn't have what they needed but it seemed to be effective. That kind of use would give you total androgen replacement and a nice boost of test. I don't know, people may still do it, but I can't remember the last time I've heard or read of anyone doing it.

You dont hear it because kids today dont know how to workout or what to eat but they already know that dianabol staks well with deca or whatever.
Plus 10mg of those pink thai dianabol is nothing, pharmaceutical grade would be another story.
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randy841
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« Reply #38 on: May 09, 2012, 04:12:31 PM »

If Nolvadex is good. I3C is better by about 30%.

UCLA research shows that I3C inhibits the growth of oestrogen receptor-positive breast cancer cells by 90 per cent whilst Tamoxifen only ‘scored’ 60 per cent. The added benefit is that in oestrogen receptor-negative cells I3C stopped the growth of new cells by almost 50 per cent whilst, of course, Tamoxifen had no significant effect.

I3C has a plethora of benefits..
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Dr.Ill
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« Reply #39 on: May 10, 2012, 12:34:11 PM »

A lot of conflicting opinions in this thread, that's for sure. Anyway, simply commenting on the original post...yes, Nolvadex can increase your natural testosterone levels...if it couldn't, doctors wouldn't prescribe it in some cases to treat low testosterone. I've seen a few studies that showed a 50% plus increase in low level men...for example, if your total test is at 200-300ng/dl this would put you at 300-450ng/dl.

As a side-note, you don't hear about it much anymore, but a lot of guys used to run 10-20mg of Nolvadex a day with 10mg of Dianabol as a bridge in-between cycles. Usually a short 4-5wk bridge...I think a lot of guys did this if they were simply in-between because they didn't have what they needed but it seemed to be effective. That kind of use would give you total androgen replacement and a nice boost of test. I don't know, people may still do it, but I can't remember the last time I've heard or read of anyone doing it.

Doctors do NOT prescribe it to increase testerone,  it is used to block estrogen, in which can increase testerone uptake but does not increase overall amount of testerone being produced.  And Arimidex is taking the place of Nolvadex in the cancer world.
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Marlo Stanfield
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« Reply #40 on: May 10, 2012, 01:17:27 PM »

Doctors do NOT prescribe it to increase testerone,  it is used to block estrogen, in which can increase testerone uptake but does not increase overall amount of testerone being produced.  And Arimidex is taking the place of Nolvadex in the cancer world.

yes they do
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Dr.Ill
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« Reply #41 on: May 10, 2012, 02:07:41 PM »

yes they do

If you find a doctor that prescribes Nolvadex as a test booster, you need to find another physician!
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falco
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« Reply #42 on: May 10, 2012, 02:47:44 PM »

I agree. By my experience it does nothing to boost test, no matter what studies say.Clomid, tribulus or zma are the choices.
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Marlo Stanfield
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« Reply #43 on: May 10, 2012, 02:47:57 PM »

If you find a doctor that prescribes Nolvadex as a test booster, you need to find another physician!

didnt know you meant Nolvadex...

Endos and hypogonadism therapists do prescribe clomiphine (clomid) as a first attemp to boosts ones test levels without fucking with your fertility. if that fails, they will give you test.
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HEAVYLIFT
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« Reply #44 on: May 11, 2012, 07:31:59 AM »

how about if you stack proviron with clomid ?

it will free up more test
reduce estrogen
increase your libido even more
give you an harder look
no shutdown ?

what you guys think ?


check out this post with study's by some guy at a prohormone forum


#1 : The effect of mesterolone on sperm count, on serum follicle stimulating hormone, luteinizing hormone, plasma testosterone and outcome in idiopathic oligospermic men.
Abstract
Two hundred fifty subfertile men with idiopathic oligospermia (count less than 20 million/ml) were treated with mesterolone (100-150 mg/day) for 12 months. Seminal analysis were assayed 3 times and serum follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) luteinizing hormone (LH) and plasma testosterone were assayed once before treatment and repeated at 3, 6, 9 and 12 months after the initiation of treatment. One hundred ten patients (44%) had normal serum FSH, LH and plasma testosterone, 85 patients (34%) had low serum FSH, LH and low plasma testosterone. One hundred seventy-five patients (70%) had moderate oligospermia (count 5 to less than 20 million/ml) and 75 patients (30%) had severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million/ml). Seventy-five moderately oligospermic patients showed significant improvement in the sperm density, total sperm count and motility following mesterolone therapy whereas only 12% showed improvement in the severe oligospermic group. Mesterolone had no depressing effect on low or normal serum FSH and LH levels but had depressing effect on 25% if the levels were elevated. There was no significant adverse effect on testosterone levels or on liver function. One hundred fifteen (46%) pregnancies resulted following the treatment, 9 of 115 (7.8%) aborted and 2 (1.7%) had ectopic pregnancy. Mesterolone was found to be more useful in patients with a sperm count ranging between 5 and 20 million/ml. Those with severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million) do not seem to benefit from this therapy.

NOTES: they used a large group of people (most had normal hormone profiles) with a medium dose for a long time. no effect on test, or LH. a few seem to have had their LH lowered a bit if it was elevated, but not really relevant because testosterone levels remained the same in all subjects anyways.
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#2 :Mesterolone treatment of patients with pathospermia.
Abstract
The response to Mesterolone, in doses of 25 mg/day, was examined in 42 pathospermic patients. Treatment lasted for 100 days. The pronounced response to the Mesterolone treatment was observed in hypozoo- and oligozoospermia with low initial fructose content in the ejaculate. Fructose content attained its normal range after the treatment. During the therapeutic period 11 wives became pregnant. The authors conclude that Mesterolone does not influence plasma FSH, LH and testosterone levels, it has only peripheral effects.

NOTES: low dose for a pretty long time. no influence on endocrin.
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#3 : Plasma cholesterol, triglycerides, FSH and testosterone levels of normolipemic male patients with decreased fertility treated with mesterolone.
Abstract
There were no changes in plasma cholesterol, triglycerides, FSH and testosterone levels of 24 healthy men treated with mesterolone for infertility during period of 6 months. The patients were normolipemic and the daily doses were 75 mg. No side-effects were noticed. Mesterolone seems to have too selective or too low androgenic effect with the doses used in orde to have an influence on the lipid metabolism of men.

NOTES: decent sized group of ppl, again healthy, just infertile. low-med dose for a pretty long time period. again no suppression
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# 4: The effects of mesterolone on the male accessory sex organs, on spermiogram, plasma testosterone and FSH.
Abstract
42 subfertile male ambulatory patients were treated with Proviron. Moderate oligoastheno-teratozoospermia was the most common injury in sperm analysis. The treatment did not change the amount of plasma FSH, testosterone or prostate phosphatase. Acid phosphatase and citric acid of semen showed an increased activity with mesterolone treatment. The amount of fructose decreased, it is probably due to the increased number of spermatozoa, which need more fructose for their metabolism respectively. The sperm of 93% of the patients improved or stayed unchanged. 30% of the patients developed normozoospermia. 6 pregnancies were achieved.

NOTS: pretty good sized group who were again infertile, but also bedridden. shouldnt really matter though, as their endocrine would work the same. i hate it when the dumbasses dont mention how long they were taking it. or the doses (probably similar to above doses). no change in test levels anyways tho.
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#5 : Effect of non aromatizable androgens on LHRH and TRH responses in primary testicular failure.
Abstract
We have assessed the gonadotropin, TSH and PRL responses to the non aromatizable androgens, mesterolone and fluoxymestrone, in 27 patients with primary testicular failure. All patients were given a bolus of LHRH (100 micrograms) and TRH (200 micrograms) at zero time. Nine subjects received a further bolus of TRH at 30 mins. The latter were then given mesterolone 150 mg daily for 6 weeks. The remaining subjects received fluoxymesterone 5 mg daily for 4 weeks and 10 mg daily for 2 weeks. On the last day of the androgen administration, the subjects were re-challenged with LHRH and TRH according to the identical protocol. When compared to controls, the patients had normal circulating levels of testosterone, estradiol, PRL and thyroid hormones. However, basal LH, FSH and TSH levels, as well as gonadotropin responses to LHRH and TSH and PRL responses to TRH, were increased. Mesterolone administration produced no changes in steroids, thyroid hormones, gonadotropins nor PRL. There was, however, a reduction in the integrated and incremental TSH secretion after TRH. Fluoxymesterone administration was accompanied by a reduction in thyroid binding globulin (with associated decreases in T3 and increases in T3 resin uptake). The free T4 index was unaltered, which implies that thyroid function was unchanged. In addition, during fluoxymesterone administration, there was a reduction in testosterone, gonadotropins and LH response to LHRH. Basal TSH did not vary, but there was a reduction in the peak and integrated TSH response to TRH. PRL levels were unaltered during fluoxymesterone treatment.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)

NOTES: this one was a little different then the above. they also gave injections of LHRH. using a small number of subjects, proviron didnt change the normal hormonal response in the body, the response of LH and FSH (and test) to LHRH after it had been taken at a med dose for several weeks. good to know.

these studies DO show suppression with proviron use.

#6 : The effects of mesterolone, a male sex hormone in depressed patients (a double blind controlled study).
Abstract
Based on computer EEG (CEEG) profiles, in high doses, antidepressant properties of mesterolone, a synthetic androgen, were predicted. In a double-blind placebo controlled study, the clinical effects of 300-450 mg daily mesterolone were investigated in 52 relatively young (age range 26-53 years, mean 42.7 years) male depressed outpatients. During 6 weeks of mesterolone treatment, there was a significant improvement of depressive symptomatology. However, since an improvement was also established during the placebo treatment, no statistically appreciable difference in the therapeutic effects of mesterolone was established compared to placebo. Mesterolone treatment significantly decreased both plasma testosterone and protein bound testosterone levels. Patients with high testosterone levels prior to treatment seem to have had more benefit from mesterolone treatment than patients with low testosterone levels. The degree of improvement weakly correlated to the decrease of testosterone levels during mesterolone treatment.

NOTES: a nice sized group of middleaged men given 300-450 mg for several weeks. thats at least 2-3X the dose given in the studies above. also maybe worth noting that i think hpta out put is suppressed in ppl with depression, but i might be wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------
#7: The hormone response to a synthetic androgen (mesterolone) in oligospermia.
Abstract
Forty subfertile men with oligospermia were treated with a synthetic androgen (Mesterolone). The effect of the drug was evaluated by measuring serum testosterone, luteinizing hormone (LH), follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) and analysing the semen before and after treatment. The results demonstrated that in twenty-three patients treated for 6-9 months there was a significant decrease in serum testosterone (P less than 0.01); the means +/- SEM before and after treatment were 17.05 +/- 0.95 and 14.7 +/- 0.95 (nmol/l serum) respectively. There was a pronounced increase in serum LH (P less than 0.01), the values being 2.73 +/- 0.26 and 3.61 +/- 0.3 (u/l) respectively. However, no significant difference was found in serum FSH before and after treatment. The sperm concentration showed a variable response to treatment. In twenty-one patients there was either no change or worsening in the sperm concentration, whereas in nineteen patients an improvement was observed. The analysis of variance of sperm concentration and motility for the periods before and after treatment, for all the patients, showed no significant difference in the sperm concentration F1.145 = 2.82 (P=0.1).

NOTES: again a decent sized group, treated for a long time. test decreased significantly, but again it pisses me off that they forgot to put the dose. in this case though i think its very safe to assume they used very high doses, like in #6. just looking at all the subjects in studies 1-4 you see a total of 358 ppl with normally working endorine systems take anywhere from 25-150 mg, for up to 12 months maybe more, and no change in testosterone. its very unlikely that this study used those kind of doses.
----------------------------------------------------------

CONCLUSION: low-medium doses of proviron taken when you have normal hormonal environment (not at the end of a cycle) does not suppress hpta. higher doses do.

discuss.
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HEAVYLIFT
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« Reply #45 on: November 23, 2012, 02:38:12 AM »

bump
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