Author Topic: Author: What the Bible really says about homosexuality  (Read 44562 times)

loco

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Re: Author: What the Bible really says about homosexuality
« Reply #50 on: May 17, 2012, 05:39:47 AM »
Also, I don't think God hates homosexuals and the Bible doesn't say that.  I think he looks at homosexuals like he does anyone else:  no better, no worse.  

Correcto!

God does not hate homosexuals, or adulterers, or thieves or murderers.  God hates homosexuality, adultery, sealing and murder.

If God hated homosexuals, then all of humanity would be in trouble.  

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Re: Author: What the Bible really says about homosexuality
« Reply #51 on: May 17, 2012, 07:31:43 AM »
It's not murky or unclear at all.  But when people want to find an issue with language, even when it's plain as day, they will.  You really have to turn the common sense part of your brain off to conclude the Bible doesn't condemn homosexuality. 

Now if you wanted to take issue with what the Bible says about alcohol, then there is at least something to debate.  This one is a no brainer. 

I have yet to see one clear verse that say homo sexuality is a sin.  So far the one you showed means something different.  The one loco showed indicates sex with man or women is an abomination.  The best I see is "vile" affections which could just mean disgusting.

Which all equates to murky.

Also, I don't think God hates homosexuals and the Bible doesn't say that.  I think he looks at homosexuals like he does anyone else:  no better, no worse. 

Does condemning equal hate?  Depends on the way you look at I suppose

loco

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Re: Author: What the Bible really says about homosexuality
« Reply #52 on: May 17, 2012, 07:35:33 AM »
I have yet to see one clear verse that say homo sexuality is a sin.  

OzmO, what is a sin?

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Re: Author: What the Bible really says about homosexuality
« Reply #53 on: May 17, 2012, 07:39:54 AM »
OzmO, what is a sin?

You tell me.

loco

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Re: Author: What the Bible really says about homosexuality
« Reply #54 on: May 17, 2012, 07:43:43 AM »
You tell me.

I thought you had a definition of sin since you keep saying Homosexuality is not a sin.

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Re: Author: What the Bible really says about homosexuality
« Reply #55 on: May 17, 2012, 07:46:55 AM »
I thought you had a definition of sin since you keep saying Homosexuality is not a sin.

I thought you did cause you are our resident expert on the Bible. 

loco

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Re: Author: What the Bible really says about homosexuality
« Reply #56 on: May 17, 2012, 07:48:24 AM »
I thought you did cause you are our resident expert on the Bible. 

You thought I did what?

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Re: Author: What the Bible really says about homosexuality
« Reply #57 on: May 17, 2012, 07:58:07 AM »

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Re: Author: What the Bible really says about homosexuality
« Reply #58 on: May 17, 2012, 07:59:10 AM »
Huh?

What?

I thought you did cause you are our resident expert on the Bible. 

You thought I did what?

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Re: Author: What the Bible really says about homosexuality
« Reply #59 on: May 17, 2012, 08:02:21 AM »
What?

You thought I did what?

Knew the definition of sin

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Re: Author: What the Bible really says about homosexuality
« Reply #60 on: May 17, 2012, 08:03:56 AM »
LOL @ people who implement certian parts of the bible and Jesus' life and totally ignore other parts.....gotta love it

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Re: Author: What the Bible really says about homosexuality
« Reply #61 on: May 17, 2012, 08:06:08 AM »
LOL @ people who implement certian parts of the bible and Jesus' life and totally ignore other parts.....gotta love it

Christians aren't perfect, they are just forgiven.   ;)

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Re: Author: What the Bible really says about homosexuality
« Reply #62 on: May 17, 2012, 08:07:45 AM »
Knew the definition of sin

To Bible believers is pretty simple.  Sin is breaking God's laws.  God says not to do something, we do it, it is a sin.  To us sin is also knowing to do something good, but not doing it.

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Re: Author: What the Bible really says about homosexuality
« Reply #63 on: May 17, 2012, 08:08:45 AM »
Christians aren't perfect, they are just forgiven.   ;)

Yes, but true Christians also do have a desire and do try to be like Jesus Christ. 

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Re: Author: What the Bible really says about homosexuality
« Reply #64 on: May 17, 2012, 08:09:24 AM »
Christians aren't perfect, they are just forgiven.   ;)

But how can they site the bible for rationale for certian thought processes and totally ignore other parts that are very clear in the bible as in instructions on how to live. Its the wierd to me

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Re: Author: What the Bible really says about homosexuality
« Reply #65 on: May 17, 2012, 08:09:56 AM »
To Bible believers is pretty simple.  Sin is breaking God's laws.  God says not to do something, we do it, it is a sin.  To us sin is also knowing to do something good, but not doing it.

So where does it say not to be a homosexual?

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Re: Author: What the Bible really says about homosexuality
« Reply #66 on: May 17, 2012, 08:14:04 AM »
wanna see me clear out a room full of Right Winged Conservatives...

Deuteronomy 15:7-11 ESV / 46 helpful votes
“If among you, one of your brothers should become poor, in any of your towns within your land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart or shut your hand against your poor brother, but you shall open your hand to him and lend him sufficient for his need, whatever it may be. Take care lest there be an unworthy thought in your heart and you say, ‘The seventh year, the year of release is near,’ and your eye look grudgingly on your poor brother, and you give him nothing, and he cry to the Lord against you, and you be guilty of sin You shall give to him freely, and your h.eart shall not be grudging when you give to him, because for this the Lord your God will bless you in all your work and in all that you undertake. For there will never cease to be poor in the land. Therefore I command you, ‘You shall open wide your hand to your brother, to the needy and to the poor, in your land.’

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Re: Author: What the Bible really says about homosexuality
« Reply #67 on: May 17, 2012, 08:25:17 AM »
hello............. this thing on.............

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Re: Author: What the Bible really says about homosexuality
« Reply #68 on: May 17, 2012, 08:39:08 AM »
wanna see me clear out a room full of Right Winged Conservatives...

Deuteronomy 15:7-11 ESV / 46 helpful votes
“If among you, one of your brothers should become poor, in any of your towns within your land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart or shut your hand against your poor brother, but you shall open your hand to him and lend him sufficient for his need, whatever it may be. Take care lest there be an unworthy thought in your heart and you say, ‘The seventh year, the year of release is near,’ and your eye look grudgingly on your poor brother, and you give him nothing, and he cry to the Lord against you, and you be guilty of sin You shall give to him freely, and your h.eart shall not be grudging when you give to him, because for this the Lord your God will bless you in all your work and in all that you undertake. For there will never cease to be poor in the land. Therefore I command you, ‘You shall open wide your hand to your brother, to the needy and to the poor, in your land.’


Fail.  This would actually clear out a room full of liberals.  Numerous reports and studies have shown conservative donate to charity more than liberals.  One example from a few years ago:

March 27, 2008
Conservatives More Liberal Givers
By George Will

WASHINGTON -- Residents of Austin, Texas, home of the state's government and flagship university, have very refined social consciences, if they do say so themselves, and they do say so, speaking via bumper stickers. Don R. Willett, a justice of the state Supreme Court, has commuted behind bumpers proclaiming "Better a Bleeding Heart Than None at All," "Practice Random Acts of Kindness and Senseless Beauty," "The Moral High Ground Is Built on Compassion," "Arms Are For Hugging," "Will Work (When the Jobs Come Back From India)," "Jesus Is a Liberal," "God Wants Spiritual Fruits, Not Religious Nuts," "The Road to Hell Is Paved With Republicans," "Republicans Are People Too -- Mean, Selfish, Greedy People" and so on. But Willett thinks Austin subverts a stereotype: "The belief that liberals care more about the poor may scratch a partisan or ideological itch, but the facts are hostile witnesses."

Sixteen months ago, Arthur C. Brooks, a professor at Syracuse University, published "Who Really Cares: The Surprising Truth About Compassionate Conservatism." The surprise is that liberals are markedly less charitable than conservatives.

If many conservatives are liberals who have been mugged by reality, Brooks, a registered independent, is, as a reviewer of his book said, a social scientist who has been mugged by data. They include these findings:

-- Although liberal families' incomes average 6 percent higher than those of conservative families, conservative-headed households give, on average, 30 percent more to charity than the average liberal-headed household ($1,600 per year vs. $1,227).

-- Conservatives also donate more time and give more blood.


-- Residents of the states that voted for John Kerry in 2004 gave smaller percentages of their incomes to charity than did residents of states that voted for George Bush.

-- Bush carried 24 of the 25 states where charitable giving was above average.

-- In the 10 reddest states, in which Bush got more than 60 percent majorities, the average percentage of personal income donated to charity was 3.5. Residents of the bluest states, which gave Bush less than 40 percent, donated just 1.9 percent.

-- People who reject the idea that "government has a responsibility to reduce income inequality" give an average of four times more than people who accept that proposition.

Brooks demonstrates a correlation between charitable behavior and "the values that lie beneath" liberal and conservative labels. Two influences on charitable behavior are religion and attitudes about the proper role of government.

The single biggest predictor of someone's altruism, Willett says, is religion. It increasingly correlates with conservative political affiliations because, as Brooks' book says, "the percentage of self-described Democrats who say they have 'no religion' has more than quadrupled since the early 1970s." America is largely divided between religious givers and secular nongivers, and the former are disproportionately conservative. One demonstration that religion is a strong determinant of charitable behavior is that the least charitable cohort is a relatively small one -- secular conservatives.

Reviewing Brooks' book in the Texas Review of Law & Politics, Justice Willett notes that Austin -- it voted 56 percent for Kerry while he was getting just 38 percent statewide -- is ranked by The Chronicle of Philanthropy as 48th out of America's 50 largest cities in per capita charitable giving. Brooks' data about disparities between liberals' and conservatives' charitable giving fit these facts: Democrats represent a majority of the wealthiest congressional districts, and half of America's richest households live in states where both senators are Democrats.

While conservatives tend to regard giving as a personal rather than governmental responsibility, some liberals consider private charity a retrograde phenomenon -- a poor palliative for an inadequate welfare state, and a distraction from achieving adequacy by force, by increasing taxes. Ralph Nader, running for president in 2000, said: "A society that has more justice is a society that needs less charity." Brooks, however, warns: "If support for a policy that does not exist ... substitutes for private charity, the needy are left worse off than before. It is one of the bitterest ironies of liberal politics today that political opinions are apparently taking the place of help for others."

In 2000, brows were furrowed in perplexity because Vice President Al Gore's charitable contributions, as a percentage of his income, were below the national average: He gave 0.2 percent of his family income, one-seventh of the average for donating households. But Gore "gave at the office." By using public office to give other peoples' money to government programs, he was being charitable, as liberals increasingly, and conveniently, understand that word.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/03/conservatives_more_liberal_giv.html

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Re: Author: What the Bible really says about homosexuality
« Reply #69 on: May 17, 2012, 08:40:34 AM »
Fail.  This would actually clear out a room full of liberals.  Numerous reports and studies have shown conservative donate to charity more than liberals.  One example from a few years ago:

March 27, 2008
Conservatives More Liberal Givers
By George Will

WASHINGTON -- Residents of Austin, Texas, home of the state's government and flagship university, have very refined social consciences, if they do say so themselves, and they do say so, speaking via bumper stickers. Don R. Willett, a justice of the state Supreme Court, has commuted behind bumpers proclaiming "Better a Bleeding Heart Than None at All," "Practice Random Acts of Kindness and Senseless Beauty," "The Moral High Ground Is Built on Compassion," "Arms Are For Hugging," "Will Work (When the Jobs Come Back From India)," "Jesus Is a Liberal," "God Wants Spiritual Fruits, Not Religious Nuts," "The Road to Hell Is Paved With Republicans," "Republicans Are People Too -- Mean, Selfish, Greedy People" and so on. But Willett thinks Austin subverts a stereotype: "The belief that liberals care more about the poor may scratch a partisan or ideological itch, but the facts are hostile witnesses."

Sixteen months ago, Arthur C. Brooks, a professor at Syracuse University, published "Who Really Cares: The Surprising Truth About Compassionate Conservatism." The surprise is that liberals are markedly less charitable than conservatives.

If many conservatives are liberals who have been mugged by reality, Brooks, a registered independent, is, as a reviewer of his book said, a social scientist who has been mugged by data. They include these findings:

-- Although liberal families' incomes average 6 percent higher than those of conservative families, conservative-headed households give, on average, 30 percent more to charity than the average liberal-headed household ($1,600 per year vs. $1,227).

-- Conservatives also donate more time and give more blood.


-- Residents of the states that voted for John Kerry in 2004 gave smaller percentages of their incomes to charity than did residents of states that voted for George Bush.

-- Bush carried 24 of the 25 states where charitable giving was above average.

-- In the 10 reddest states, in which Bush got more than 60 percent majorities, the average percentage of personal income donated to charity was 3.5. Residents of the bluest states, which gave Bush less than 40 percent, donated just 1.9 percent.

-- People who reject the idea that "government has a responsibility to reduce income inequality" give an average of four times more than people who accept that proposition.

Brooks demonstrates a correlation between charitable behavior and "the values that lie beneath" liberal and conservative labels. Two influences on charitable behavior are religion and attitudes about the proper role of government.

The single biggest predictor of someone's altruism, Willett says, is religion. It increasingly correlates with conservative political affiliations because, as Brooks' book says, "the percentage of self-described Democrats who say they have 'no religion' has more than quadrupled since the early 1970s." America is largely divided between religious givers and secular nongivers, and the former are disproportionately conservative. One demonstration that religion is a strong determinant of charitable behavior is that the least charitable cohort is a relatively small one -- secular conservatives.

Reviewing Brooks' book in the Texas Review of Law & Politics, Justice Willett notes that Austin -- it voted 56 percent for Kerry while he was getting just 38 percent statewide -- is ranked by The Chronicle of Philanthropy as 48th out of America's 50 largest cities in per capita charitable giving. Brooks' data about disparities between liberals' and conservatives' charitable giving fit these facts: Democrats represent a majority of the wealthiest congressional districts, and half of America's richest households live in states where both senators are Democrats.

While conservatives tend to regard giving as a personal rather than governmental responsibility, some liberals consider private charity a retrograde phenomenon -- a poor palliative for an inadequate welfare state, and a distraction from achieving adequacy by force, by increasing taxes. Ralph Nader, running for president in 2000, said: "A society that has more justice is a society that needs less charity." Brooks, however, warns: "If support for a policy that does not exist ... substitutes for private charity, the needy are left worse off than before. It is one of the bitterest ironies of liberal politics today that political opinions are apparently taking the place of help for others."

In 2000, brows were furrowed in perplexity because Vice President Al Gore's charitable contributions, as a percentage of his income, were below the national average: He gave 0.2 percent of his family income, one-seventh of the average for donating households. But Gore "gave at the office." By using public office to give other peoples' money to government programs, he was being charitable, as liberals increasingly, and conveniently, understand that word.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/03/conservatives_more_liberal_giv.html
I was talking about the Social Welfare thing.. bro relax... "Fail" ::)  um... ok

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Re: Author: What the Bible really says about homosexuality
« Reply #70 on: May 17, 2012, 08:40:44 AM »
I have yet to see one clear verse that say homo sexuality is a sin.  So far the one you showed means something different.  The one loco showed indicates sex with man or women is an abomination.  The best I see is "vile" affections which could just mean disgusting.

Which all equates to murky.

Does condemning equal hate?  Depends on the way you look at I suppose

What's your definition/interpretation of sin?  

Condemning behavior probably equals hating behavior.  This isn't the same as hating a person.  

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Re: Author: What the Bible really says about homosexuality
« Reply #71 on: May 17, 2012, 08:41:41 AM »
WWJD.....

Get a job you leach"....

Yeah Real christlike

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Re: Author: What the Bible really says about homosexuality
« Reply #72 on: May 17, 2012, 08:42:18 AM »
1 John 3:17 ESV / 39 helpful votes
But if anyone has the world's goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God's love abide in him?

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Re: Author: What the Bible really says about homosexuality
« Reply #73 on: May 17, 2012, 08:42:32 AM »
I was talking about the Social Welfare thing.. bro relax... "Fail" ::)  um... ok

Yeah.  Right.  The verse you quoted talks about individual giving, not government welfare.  The study I just posted talks about individual giving.  So, nice try, but you should leave this one alone.   :)

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Re: Author: What the Bible really says about homosexuality
« Reply #74 on: May 17, 2012, 08:49:54 AM »
Yeah.  Right.  The verse you quoted talks about individual giving, not government welfare.  The study I just posted talks about individual giving.  So, nice try, but you should leave this one alone.   :)

no no no... a spirit of giving and taking care of the less fortunate is not has nothing to do with "government Vs individual" thats splitting hairs and molding it to fit political viewpoints...

" But but this was about Government ... not personally giving..." Really... how about this.. it doesnt matter if the source is the government or an individual... the bible says the less fortunate needs to be taken care of by us. I didnt make this up..

Proverbs 14:31 Whoever oppresses a poor man insults his Maker, but he who is generous to the needy honors him.

Proverbs 22:9  
Whoever has a bountiful eye will be blessed, for he shares his bread with the poor

This has nothing to do with Gov vs Individual.. and I dont have to leave this alone.  You arent the pope and my understanding of the bible is just fine. Now if you want to discuss this we can.. if you wanna go the 3333 route of arguments... youre right.. i will leave this alone