Insulin on its own

[swoll]

you guys should only be useing humalog post workout

[wannabehuge]

I use Humulin-R because I can't get with out prescription.

[Greekzilla]

Should someone whose using insulin by itself also take the eca stack to offset possible fat gain?

[wannabehuge]

If you use it buy itself you have to be very careful or you will get fat.(meaning eat clean) I like taking it with test suspension and or GH.

[mem]

Insulin ALONE makes NO SENSE! WTF?

why you guys even think about f'uckin with somethin like slin is beyond me.

its not like roids where any health problems take years to manifest...... this shit can kill your ass dead with one pin.

best leave it to the pros who have a callous disregard for their own safety.

DITTO!!!!

I want to try it - am very scared - too much to loose (to f**k around)

I would O N L Y  do it with HgH - period. Of course AAS.
I wonder why all of the seeming despiration related to Insulin
Lack of access of just because its cheap

I would rather see others do the right thing . . .
NOT something right away . . .

Big picture planning - longevity
and healthy productive lives . . .

[DIVISION]

How big of a difference do you guys think insulin alone makes in bodybuilding if not used with GH, only AAS?

With AAS is will have some effect.

To what degree, I have no idea.

Pros will not say.

Combined with Gh and AAS it has a synergistic effect enhancing the effects of all three....






DIV

[Beyond Genetics]

My question was how well does it work when just used with AAS, and not GH.

[freeagain]

Look at it like this, without insulin AAS and GH wouldnt work, you wouldnt be able to grow at all..ofcourse you would die without it, but strictly speaking about muscle gains, it is tied for being the most important aspect of it all.

Its very effective alone, its just more effective when combined with GH and AAS.

but your body produces insuline , you numbnut.

if you ingest 100 grams of simple carbs for instance... your pancrease pumps out enough insulin to deal with that blood sugar .

whats the point of takin a hormone that your body naturally produces in qauntitys that is needed for each carb payload?

just eat the carbs and let nature take its course !! 

[Beyond Genetics]

but your body produces insuline , you numbnut.

if you ingest 100 grams of simple carbs for instance... your pancrease pumps out enough insulin to deal with that blood sugar .

whats the point of takin a hormone that your body naturally produces in qauntitys that is needed for each carb payload?

just eat the carbs and let nature take its course !! 

This has been "the" question for a while. 

But if it doesn't work any better than the natural slin your body makes then why is it believed that this is one of the main reasons for the Pro's increase in size in the 90's.  From what I understand it may be a matter of speed, If you eat carbs post workout your blood sugar goes up then insulin is released from the pancreas, if you inject it, you immediately have the slin in your system and the carbs when you need it most.

FitDV: What are some of the differences in drug use between pro and amateur levels?

Pro: The main difference is the amount of growth hormone used. For example, as an amateur I used 4 to 6 iu of GH nightly. As an IFBB Pro, I use up to, and sometimes more than 12 iu's nightly. It seems like the more GH you use, the fuller your muscles stay. I'm not sure if 6 iu does the same thing as 12 iu, but as a pro you just do not want to take the chance. Steroid drug use is about the same. Twelve weeks on steroids and four weeks off. Another thing that the pros are doing is insulin after they are done training. The concept is to break the muscle down and then force glycogen into the muscle immediately after training with the use of insulin. Insulin is the most anabolic hormone known to man and it is one of the most dangerous. I've known many bodybuilders that have taken insulin after training and then not eaten enough carbohydrates to cover the insulin. This causes severe nausea and your blood sugar will drop rapidly. The result is a very sick person, until he gets some simple sugars into his system.

[DIVISION]

but your body produces insuline , you numbnut.

if you ingest 100 grams of simple carbs for instance... your pancrease pumps out enough insulin to deal with that blood sugar .

whats the point of takin a hormone that your body naturally produces in qauntitys that is needed for each carb payload?

just eat the carbs and let nature take its course !! 

^Concur with Free.

This is the same thing as saying your body naturally produces testosterone in quantities that is needed.. so why inject test? Hell why even take steroids?

Insulin is a highly anabolic hormone.. it dramatically increases protein synthesis and fuel storage.

NO.  It's not the same.

More is not better when it comes to Insulin, do not compare the mechanism of action between it and AAS and try to draw some inference.

People like you are the ones who start these "myths" resulting in people doing all kinds of crazy shit.

Insulin is one drug you do not fu.ck with.  Make a mistake and you may be dependent on it for the rest of your life.

Mu-Mu, it sounds to me like you don't know what the fu.ck you are talking about in terms of the overall scope of what insulin does and what possible consequences manipulating it could have on the body.




DIV

[freeagain]

This is the same thing as saying your body naturally produces testosterone in quantities that is needed.. so why inject test? Hell why even take steroids?

Insulin is a highly anabolic hormone.. it dramatically increases protein synthesis and fuel storage.

no muiverse ... the body only produces small quantitys of test and cannot go beyond it.

the pancrease pumps out as much insulin as needed to deal with the carb intake.

big carb intake= big insulin output.

i cant see the reason for usin it at all....... if you ingest simple carbs ... sugar hits the blood stream within 3 minutes .... and the pancrease starts to output the good stuff like a lawn sprinkler to deal with it immediately.
and will continue to do so untill the sugar has been deposited as glycogen and the blood levels return to safe normal levels.

so someone tell me again... why the need to take synthetic insulin?? 

dangerous and unnecesary! 

[DIVISION]

My girlfriend is a type 1 diabetic and is writing a book that talks a lot about diabetes... yeah i dont know nothin  .. geez.. all those discussions with her, ( she was a nurse too, and has many nutrition certs)...was all just bullshit

Mu-Mu, it's not worth the risk to inject insulin and risk hypoglycemia.......all for what?   

For the sake of muscle?

Your intentions are misplaced.

no muiverse ... the body only produces small quantitys of test and cannot go beyond it.

the pancrease pumps out as much insulin as needed to deal with the carb intake.

big carb intake= big insulin output.

i cant see the reason for usin it at all....... if you ingest simple carbs ... sugar hits the blood stream within 3 minutes .... and the pancrease starts to output the good stuff like a lawn sprinkler to deal with it immediately.
and will continue to do so untill the sugar has been deposited as glycogen and the blood levels return to safe normal levels.

so someone tell me again... why the need to take synthetic insulin?? 

dangerous and unnecesary! 

^Concur w/ Free.....




DIV

[mem]

I am almost reluctant to jump in on this thread . . .
may be off (grumpy) track . . . direction of thread.

I have considered Insulin use combined with HgH and
thought that it would benefit HgH users by supplying Insulin
as a *substrate* to drive and further enhance IGF production.

That ultimately, the **pancreas can't produce enough Insulin
to both manage calories and for the liver to make sufficient IGF,
indirectly undermining HgH benefits. (**thus the rise in blood sugar
levels over time with HgH usage).

I confirmed this notion with an MD. They felt it to be plausible . . .

[DIVISION]

I confirmed this notion with an MD. They felt it to be plausible . . .

I'm sure it's plausible, though what Doc would stand behind that prescribed use of Insulin?

Very few......



DIV

[Beyond Genetics]

My girlfriend is a type 1 diabetic and is writing a book that talks a lot about diabetes... yeah i dont know nothin  .. geez.. all those discussions with her, ( she was a nurse too, and has many nutrition certs)...was all just bullshit

Its you type of people that blow everything out of proportion and exaggerate everything..

the only reason people f**k up with insulin is if they take too much/too long and they dont check their blood sugar levels with a glucometer.. there is nothing else to it dont make it more complicated than it is.

what are you trying to tell me that injecting more insulin into your body (ofcourse with the correct diet and proper precautions) isnt going to benefit your bodybuilding? You go tell that to the professional bodybuilders and national level athletes...

INSULIN IS SO SCARRYY!!! OMGOSH AHHH!!!! LETS HAVE A PANIC ATTACK!

Its scary ONLY FOR MORONS that dont know what they are doing, JUST USE IT RIGHT, FOLLOW T HE PRECAUTIONS ITS NOT HARD! LIKE MAYBE, WHEN YOU USE INSULIN, ACTUALLY BUT A GLUCOMETER AND MONITOR YOUR BLOOD SUGAR LEVELS? OR HOW ABOUT TAKING THE PROPER AMOUNT OF GRAMS OF CARB PER I.U.? OR HOW ABOUT, NOT TAKING IT BEFORE YOUR WORKOUT SO YOU DONT DIE?

 There is SO much information out there on how to use insulin the right way.. its really shocking how stupid people can be about the whole thing.. especially in buying specific Types of insulin..

Heres a tip, try not to use a long acting insulin when you have a normal functioning pancreas  ...idiots...

I used it for a couple months no problem,,,  You just have to know how many carbs to get in,,  if you start feeling weird or light headed eat more carbs,, It really isn't a big deal if you know what your doing. I put on size, I just couldn't tell what was doing what because of the other stuff I was taking.
 It seems like I was stronger when I took it.

[Beyond Genetics]

exactly... although the pancreas does put out insulin for a certain amount of carbs, it can NOT put out enough for everything that you eat. If this were true you would never have high blood sugar levels...

I believe this is false, and believe that the pancreas often actually secretes too much insulin, not too little as you implied.
Your blood sugar gets high because you ingest too much sugar, of course the insulin has to be released after the ingestion and this takes time. So, for a bit of time, yes, your blood sugar is high. But, Low blood sugar is caused when the body cannot process these carbohydrates fast enough, too much sugar and carbohydrate consumption causes the pancreas to overcompensate and produce too much insulin, which lowers blood sugar levels too quickly. This is why people often become Hypoglycemic after eating large amounts of refined sugar.

This is why you may experience these symptoms 45 minutes or so after eating large amounts of very sweet foods, i.e. Gallon of Kool-Aid.

Hypoglycemic Symptoms:
    * hunger
    * nervousness and shakiness
    * perspiration
    * dizziness or light-headedness
    * sleepiness
    * confusion
    * difficulty speaking
    * feeling anxious or weak

[freeagain]

no muiverse.. the main reason for obesity is insulin resistance .... a loss of sensitivity to effects of insulin cuz the pancrease pumps out so much of it when a person over-eats 24/7!

if you start shootin large amounts of synthetic insulin you are askin to devlop insulin rsistance... then you really are f'ucked!

[youandme]

OR HOW ABOUT, NOT TAKING IT BEFORE YOUR WORKOUT SO YOU DONT DIE?

 

Whoa now your talking crazy, the pumps and positive benefits of abusing it before a workout are crazy, if your cutting up, and you take it and burn off the glycogen in your muscles as you workout and just monitoryourself, your already in fat burning mode., But yeah i dont suggest it either, it is stupid and I did say abuse

[Beyond Genetics]

The pancreas puts out enough insulin for normal sized portions, whatever that may be its individually based, but if you are eating way too much there is no way your body can put out that much insulin to push all the nutrients into the cells.

I disagree, it is well proven that the pancreas as a rule will actually create more than enough insulin, especially when consuming large amounts of simple carbohydrates.. If it was incapable of doing so your blood sugar would get too high and you would go mad. Ever watch cops when they start chasing someone down who didn't get their insulin.

http://www.whittier.org/pages/what_type2.html
http://www4.tpg.com.au/users/sallen/Bloodsugar.html
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/core5.htm
http://www.drlam.com/opinion/insulin_and_aging.cfm

[JamesD]

The concept is to break the muscle down and then force glycogen into the muscle his system.

Force "glycogen" into the muscle? Glycogen is made in the muscle NOT forced into it..

He has lost all my respect..

[Beyond Genetics]

Force "glycogen" into the muscle? Glycogen is made in the muscle NOT forced into it..

He has lost all my respect..

Do you know who wrote it, it just said a Pro in the interview and I was wondering the same...
But yes, glucose is what he should have said.


FitDV: What are some of the differences in drug use between pro and amateur levels?

Pro: The main difference is the amount of growth hormone used. For example, as an amateur I used 4 to 6 iu of GH nightly. As an IFBB Pro, I use up to, and sometimes more than 12 iu's nightly. It seems like the more GH you use, the fuller your muscles stay. I'm not sure if 6 iu does the same thing as 12 iu, but as a pro you just do not want to take the chance. Steroid drug use is about the same. Twelve weeks on steroids and four weeks off. Another thing that the pros are doing is insulin after they are done training. The concept is to break the muscle down and then force glycogen into the muscle immediately after training with the use of insulin. Insulin is the most anabolic hormone known to man and it is one of the most dangerous. I've known many bodybuilders that have taken insulin after training and then not eaten enough carbohydrates to cover the insulin. This causes severe nausea and your blood sugar will drop rapidly. The result is a very sick person, until he gets some simple sugars into his system.

[JamesD]

Do you know who wrote it, it just said a Pro in the interview and I was wondering the same...
But yes, glucose is what he should have said.


FitDV: What are some of the differences in drug use between pro and amateur levels?

Pro: The main difference is the amount of growth hormone used. For example, as an amateur I used 4 to 6 iu of GH nightly. As an IFBB Pro, I use up to, and sometimes more than 12 iu's nightly. It seems like the more GH you use, the fuller your muscles stay. I'm not sure if 6 iu does the same thing as 12 iu, but as a pro you just do not want to take the chance. Steroid drug use is about the same. Twelve weeks on steroids and four weeks off. Another thing that the pros are doing is insulin after they are done training. The concept is to break the muscle down and then force glycogen into the muscle immediately after training with the use of insulin. Insulin is the most anabolic hormone known to man and it is one of the most dangerous. I've known many bodybuilders that have taken insulin after training and then not eaten enough carbohydrates to cover the insulin. This causes severe nausea and your blood sugar will drop rapidly. The result is a very sick person, until he gets some simple sugars into his system.

I know you didnt write it, i wasnt refering to you, i was refering to the pro..It just goes to show how uneducated some people are.. I see this all the time on the net..People write articles and posts and act as if they have any sort of chemical knowledge..

[DIVISION]

I believe this is false, and believe that the pancreas often actually secretes too much insulin, not too little as you implied.

But his sister has Diabetes, so he knows EVERYTHING about it.....




DIV

[S.W.A.T.]

Week one.  W/O, 2 ius Humalog, 40 grams protein, 50 grams simple carbs.  (Apple juice works great)

                    25 min later, one cup white rice, 10 ounces white fish or two chicken breasts.

                     one hour after meal: 8 egg whites and one serving oatmeal.

Week two.  W/O, 4 ius Humalog, 60 grams protein, 60 grams simple carbs. (Apple juice)

                    25 min later, 1 1/2 cup rice, 12 ounces fish or two breasts of chicken.

                     one hour after meal: 8 egg whites and one serving oatmeal.

Week three. W/O, 6 ius Humalog, 60 grams protein, 80 grams carbs(apple juice.)

                     25 min later, 2 cups rice, and fish or chicken.

                     one hour after meal: 8 egg whites and one serving oatmeal.

Note: do not ANY sources of fat within four hours of taking the slin, or it will get shuttled like a rocket along with the protein......having a real soda (not diet) is also recommended with the first meal after the shake.....

There is an exact calculation for the carbs/slin ratio however some of you still think slin will increase your "veins" so I will only confuse you upon request......

So do you do this after every work out like 3 to 4 times a week. Or Just once a week. Can you take in too many carbs and calories after a insulin injection. Or would that just make you fat? I'm a really hard gainer who gets random drug testing so this seems to be the best route.

[Beyond Genetics]

So do you do this after every work out like 3 to 4 times a week. Or Just once a week. Can you take in too many carbs and calories after a insulin injection. Or would that just make you fat? I'm a really hard gainer who gets random drug testing so this seems to be the best route.

It's usually, if taken at all, done after every workout,,,  some do it at other times in addition,,

Taking in too many carbs is not dangerous, if you take in too few your body will let you know,,,  you will start feeling shaky and hot,,,  eat some carbs and it goes away.