Author Topic: Does wisconsin matter?  (Read 4506 times)

240 is Back

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Does wisconsin matter?
« on: June 05, 2012, 11:38:36 AM »
get on record now!   THis way, when your 'side' wins or loses tonight, you will have to retain that position.

I believe repubs had the incombency, more $, and national support on their side.

Dems had the unions, teachers, hippies, and a little less $ but better media totality.

Wisconsin's economy sucks no matter what, it's essentially tied in polls after walker led, but it all comes down to voter turnout.

IS TODAYs OUTCOME A HUGE DEAL?

MCWAY

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Re: Does wisconsin matter?
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2012, 12:09:17 PM »
get on record now!   THis way, when your 'side' wins or loses tonight, you will have to retain that position.

I believe repubs had the incombency, more $, and national support on their side.

Dems had the unions, teachers, hippies, and a little less $ but better media totality.

Wisconsin's economy sucks no matter what, it's essentially tied in polls after walker led, but it all comes down to voter turnout.

IS TODAYs OUTCOME A HUGE DEAL?

Tied in what polls? The RCP average has Walker up by 6.7

A recent WeAskAmerica poll of nearly 1700 likely voters has Walker up 54-42.

In fact, if you check the RCP poll used in that average, PPP is about the only poll that has Walker up by 3 or less (a couple have Barrett ahead). The rest have Walker up by 5 or more.

I'll go with Walker by 5 or 6.

GigantorX

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Re: Does wisconsin matter?
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2012, 12:11:02 PM »
get on record now!   THis way, when your 'side' wins or loses tonight, you will have to retain that position.

I believe repubs had the incombency, more $, and national support on their side.

Dems had the unions, teachers, hippies, and a little less $ but better media totality.

Wisconsin's economy sucks no matter what, it's essentially tied in polls after walker led, but it all comes down to voter turnout.

IS TODAYs OUTCOME A HUGE DEAL?

It sure was a huge deal when the bills Walker was submitting were being pushed through, remember that? The protests and all the Union thug bullshit? And it sure was a huge deal when those signatures were achieved for the recall......you had "journalists" on MSNBC openly campaigning for Barrett, "Get Out the Vote"! and pulling all sorts of propaganda tricks...

And now with the election looking to go in Walkers favor by a solid margin................I guess the left doesn't think it's a big deal anymore.

MCWAY

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Re: Does wisconsin matter?
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2012, 12:14:51 PM »
It sure was a huge deal when the bills Walker was submitting were being pushed through, remember that? The protests and all the Union thug bullshit? And it sure was a huge deal when those signatures were achieved for the recall......you had "journalists" on MSNBC openly campaigning for Barrett, "Get Out the Vote"! and pulling all sorts of propaganda tricks...

And now with the election looking to go in Walkers favor by a solid margin................I guess the left doesn't think it's a big deal anymore.

Obama, who was supposed to put on his marching shoes and protest with them, WON'T EVEN STEP FOOT IN WISCONSIN. He weakly endorsed Barrett by TWEET.

Clinton had a rally for Barrett, where less than a thousand people showed up.

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Re: Does wisconsin matter?
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2012, 12:58:08 PM »
get on record now!   THis way, when your 'side' wins or loses tonight, you will have to retain that position.

I believe repubs had the incombency, more $, and national support on their side.

Dems had the unions, teachers, hippies, and a little less $ but better media totality.

Wisconsin's economy sucks no matter what, it's essentially tied in polls after walker led, but it all comes down to voter turnout.

IS TODAYs OUTCOME A HUGE DEAL?


OF COURSE IT MATTERS DUMBASS! 


Most states are facin crushing pension and health care costs due to the intransignece of public sector unions which result of skyrocketing taxes. 

If Walker wins, many other governors will emulate what he did and start finally dealing w reality of the disastrous public sector union benes and costs. 

If he loses, its a frigging disaster since govs will be afraid to stand up to the public sector locusts. 

Straw Man

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Re: Does wisconsin matter?
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2012, 01:07:07 PM »
get on record now!   THis way, when your 'side' wins or loses tonight, you will have to retain that position.

I believe repubs had the incombency, more $, and national support on their side.

Dems had the unions, teachers, hippies, and a little less $ but better media totality.

Wisconsin's economy sucks no matter what, it's essentially tied in polls after walker led, but it all comes down to voter turnout.

IS TODAYs OUTCOME A HUGE DEAL?

it will serve as termperature gauge for the electorate

btw - Walker and his corporate benefactors outspent the Dem challenger by 10 to 1 (so I've heard) and that will probably also be true going forward

Post Citiznes United is an entirely different world where a few billionares can literally buy elections if they are willing to spend the money

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Re: Does wisconsin matter?
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2012, 01:16:24 PM »
.........Not to Obama. Good thing he's always right ::)

MCWAY

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Re: Does wisconsin matter?
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2012, 01:42:58 PM »
it will serve as termperature gauge for the electorate

btw - Walker and his corporate benefactors outspent the Dem challenger by 10 to 1 (so I've heard) and that will probably also be true going forward

Post Citiznes United is an entirely different world where a few billionares can literally buy elections if they are willing to spend the money

BIG DEAL!! The left is likely going to get beat with their own medicine.

Fury

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Re: Does wisconsin matter?
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2012, 02:42:51 PM »
It sure was a huge deal when the bills Walker was submitting were being pushed through, remember that? The protests and all the Union thug bullshit? And it sure was a huge deal when those signatures were achieved for the recall......you had "journalists" on MSNBC openly campaigning for Barrett, "Get Out the Vote"! and pulling all sorts of propaganda tricks...

And now with the election looking to go in Walkers favor by a solid margin................I guess the left doesn't think it's a big deal anymore.

Isn't it funny how that works out? 240 himself was posting thread after thread casting Walker in a bad light but now he doesn't care.  ::)

Apparently the unions aren't invincible.

Fury

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Re: Does wisconsin matter?
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2012, 02:51:31 PM »
The Invisible Fist
The left braces for defeat in Wisconsin.

Ahead of tonight's Wisconsin recall results, there seems to be a consensus on the left that things aren't working out as planned. With polls consistently showing a lead for Gov. Scott Walker and Intrade giving him an almost 95% chance of surviving the vote, so-called progressives are bracing for defeat.

That chiefly means rationalizing away the expected result. The New Republic's Alec MacGillis, for one, argues that a victory for right-wing villain Walker will be good for President Obama in November: "a statement of grudging pro-incumbent sentiment in a time of cautious optimism about a painfully gradual economic recovery."

MacGillis notes that Wisconsin isn't the only Republican-governed state where the economy has been good by Obama-era standards:

Over and over in Ohio, I heard Democratic elected officials, party strategists and unions officials noting that the improving economy in Ohio--where unemployment is now at 7.5 percent, down from 10.6 percent in late 2009--would boost Obama's chances of holding the state this fall. But then nearly all would also concede, with varying degrees of despondency, that the improving economy was also helping Governor John Kasich climb out of the nadir of dismal public approval that he reached in the midst of his attack on collective bargaining, and would aid his odds of reelection in 2014. In essence, they said, the fates of Barack Obama and John Kasich were now to some degree linked, as incumbents in a long recovery from a deep recession.

You can see the logic here: Obama manages to capture a majority of electoral votes as GOP-governed swing states, doing better than the rest of the country economically, vote for him, along with Democratic-governed basket-case states like California and Illinois. (It's somewhat ironic that the latter part of this scenario almost certainly will occur.)

One reason to doubt the MacGillis narrative is that it takes no account of 2010, a year in which those swing states swung heavily toward the Republicans. Among the states generally considered 2012 toss-ups, Republicans picked up the statehouses in Iowa, Michigan, New Mexico, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin and held those in Nevada and Florida. Only Colorado and New Hampshire elected Democratic governors. Republicans picked up House seats in every one of these states save Iowa, as well as in North Carolina and Virginia, which choose their governors in different years. And the GOP went 7-2 in swing-state U.S. Senate races.

There have been years in the past (1996, to take one example) in which incumbents of both parties have done well. But MacGillis's narrative implies two assumptions: first, that the outcomes of both the 2008 and the 2010 elections were simply the result of anti-incumbent sentiment owing to the parlous economy, without much ideological significance; second, that economic conditions have now improved sufficiently to yield an opposite result. Either of these assumptions should be viewed with skepticism, both together with incredulity.

The Hill, meanwhile, notes that as part of their "urgent damage-control efforts," Democrats and unions "pointed . . . to the fact that Democrats appear set to regain control of the state Senate." The Senate currently has 16 members of each party, along with one vacancy that will be filled today. Three other Senate Republicans are up for recall today, so that a single victory would give the Dems a majority in the chamber.

Such a victory would be a Pyrrhic one, however. As commenter Aaron Pilar notes, "Bwhaaa haa haa!!! . . . The Senate can not even go back into session before next winter unless called into special session by the Governor." The Assembly remains overwhelmingly Republican, and 16 senators, including 10 Democrats, are up for re-election this November in districts redrawn by the GOP-controlled Legislature. "So it is very possible, even likely, that the democrats [sic] could take control of a senate that never even meets before they are kicked out in November."

If you're drinking while reading this, now would be a good time to swallow. In a Washington Post column, Katrina vanden Heuvel, editor of the hard-left Nation, claims that the anti-Walker effort isn't really about winning:

The real story is the 15 months of people power leading up to this day. The real lesson lies in more than a year of progressive organizing, petitioning, canvassing and campaigning for the cause. The real result is a progressive movement that is deeper and broader than before. . . .

And the effects have rippled outward. The sight of 70,000 protesters--teachers, firefighters, nurses, students, parents with children--occupying the Wisconsin State Capitol in February 2011 ignited activists around the country. Just as the uprisings in Tunisia and Egypt motivated people around the world, including in Wisconsin, the occupation of the Madison statehouse helped inspire the occupation of Wall Street a few months later.


Yeah, remember when the progs changed the world by sleeping in parks? Neither do we.


Vanden Heuvel's "ignited" metaphor is rather crass, given that the Arab Spring began when a Tunisian man literally set himself on fire. But there's something to the Arab Spring analogy. The outcomes in Tunis and Cairo have been as disappointing to those who hoped liberal democracy would bloom as the Wisconsin denouement is likely to be to those who thought it was a genuinely popular left-labor resurgence.

The New York Times's David Brooks, an Obama-loving moderate conservative with a genuine reformist streak, notes that the president "has hung back from the Wisconsin race," and adds: "I'm hoping that's not crass political opportunism but an acknowledgment that governments do have to confront their unaffordable commitments." That's a vain hope if ever there was one (though "opportunism" hardly describes Obama's reticence; he's avoiding risk rather than seizing opportunity).

On the other hand, even in the unlikely event that Walker is defeated, Big Labor will have lost. "Let's face it--I wasn't the candidate for the public unions," Walker's opponent, Mayor Tom Barrett of Milwaukee, said during a debate. And according to Politico, he said it "proudly," noting that he defeated the union-favored candidate in the Democratic primary.

Politico notes that Barrett has so determinedly avoided the subject that "the issue of collective bargaining has become just a footnote." A poll last month showed that Wisconsin voters opposed so-called collective bargaining for most government employees, 55% to 41%, and "Barrett has sought to assure voters he won't be a pawn for the state's labor unions."

The repeal of Walker's reforms would require not only that a Gov. Barrett go against this promise, but also that the Democrats capture both houses of the Legislature this November. A likelier outcome of a Barrett victory would be to accelerate bipartisan acceptance of the necessary diminution of government unions.

If Barrett wins, we expect a change of tune from the lefties who are now downplaying the recall's importance. They'll insist such a result is an excellent omen for Obama in November. They may even be right about that--though it's a big if.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303830204577448564073132238.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_MIDDLETopOpinion


This about sums up 240 the Scumbag and Co.

Shockwave

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Re: Does wisconsin matter?
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2012, 05:40:02 PM »
Isn't it funny how that works out? 240 himself was posting thread after thread casting Walker in a bad light but now he doesn't care.  ::)

Apparently the unions aren't invincible.
240 has exposed himself this last week.
Dude has gone into full on Democratic shill mode.

Straw Man

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Re: Does wisconsin matter?
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2012, 05:45:50 PM »
BIG DEAL!! The left is likely going to get beat with their own medicine.

Wisconsin aside, the Citizens United case is a BIG DEAL in the destruction of democracy in this country and I don't care what side of the aisle you're on

MCWAY

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Re: Does wisconsin matter?
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2012, 05:54:45 PM »
Wisconsin aside, the Citizens United case is a BIG DEAL in the destruction of democracy in this country and I don't care what side of the aisle you're on

It's a big deal to liberals. They don't like it because NOW they're not the only ones that can rake in the cash from outside sources.

As long as the rules are the same for both sides, the left doesn't like it.

There is no destruction of democracy. The playing field has been leveled somewhat. And, as usual, the left (for all their yapping about "fairness") don't want such applied when it leads to them losing.

Princess L

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Re: Does wisconsin matter?
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2012, 05:56:30 PM »
Obama, who was supposed to put on his marching shoes and protest with them, WON'T EVEN STEP FOOT IN WISCONSIN. He weakly endorsed Barrett by TWEET.

Clinton had a rally for Barrett, where less than a thousand people showed up.

To be fair on that note, there was barely any notice (about 24 hours maybe)  I don't think time and location was even announced until a couple of hours beforehand.

BIG DEAL!! The left is likely going to get beat with their own medicine.

HUGE voter turnout (polls close in 5 minutes).  When I was there, media was saying pushing 75% (my district was at ~68%).

Personally, I hope they get their a$$ kicked!  This bullshit has gone on long enough.

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MCWAY

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Re: Does wisconsin matter?
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2012, 06:04:23 PM »
To be fair on that note, there was barely any notice (about 24 hours maybe)  I don't think time and location was even announced until a couple of hours beforehand.

HUGE voter turnout (polls close in 5 minutes).  When I was there, media was saying pushing 75% (my district was at ~68%).

Personally, I hope they get their a$$ kicked!  This bullshit has gone on long enough.



Well, no one ever accused you of mincing words, Princess.  ;D

Drudge has exit polls results. So far, per those exit polls, Walker is up by 5. Fox reports that, per exit polls, Barrett is up 8 among college students; Walker is up 10 among Catholic voters. Both are higher leads in their respective categories than their matchup in 2010.

Right now, Fox News says it's too close to call. Hannity is interviewing Lt. Gov (for now, at least) Rebecca Kleefisch.

Straw Man

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Re: Does wisconsin matter?
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2012, 06:11:52 PM »
It's a big deal to liberals. They don't like it because NOW they're not the only ones that can rake in the cash from outside sources.

As long as the rules are the same for both sides, the left doesn't like it.

There is no destruction of democracy. The playing field has been leveled somewhat. And, as usual, the left (for all their yapping about "fairness") don't want such applied when it leads to them losing.

it's bad for all sides because it allows unlimited to cash for ANYONE (even foreign corporations) to influence our election.  You may think that this is good for you now if you're in favor of Walker (who spent 10 times the amount of money that his opponent did) but eventually there will be a situation where you're on the other side of the group spending the money

Anyone who cares about democracy should not be in favor of a handful of individuals who can spend unlimited amounts of money to essentially hijack democracy

that's if you actually care about democracy

If you don't then I can see why you would like this

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Re: Does wisconsin matter?
« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2012, 06:14:38 PM »
it's bad for all sides because it allows unlimited to cash for ANYONE (even foreign corporations) to influence our election.  You may think that this is good for you now if you're in favor of Walker (who spent 10 times the amount of money that his opponent did) but eventually there will be a situation where you're on the other side of the group spending the money

Anyone who cares about democracy should not be in favor of a handful of individuals who can spend unlimited amounts of money to essentially hijack democracy

that's if you actually care about democracy

If you don't then I can see why you would like this

I dont like the money aspect. The problem is, they always find ways around the rules.
I dont know what the answer is.
Unlimited cash may be the answer, because at least it a level playing field.

Fury

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Re: Does wisconsin matter?
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2012, 06:14:44 PM »
Wisconsin aside, the Citizens United case is a BIG DEAL in the destruction of democracy in this country and I don't care what side of the aisle you're on

Stop crying, you fucking baby. What's the matter? Upset that the unions aren't the only ones with money to throw around now?

http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php

Take a look at that list and jog on, crybaby.

MCWAY

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Re: Does wisconsin matter?
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2012, 06:17:02 PM »
I dont like the money aspect. The problem is, they always find ways around the rules.
I dont know what the answer is.
Unlimited cash may be the answer, because at least it a level playing field.

My sentiments exactly!!

The left uses this tactic on a regular basis. The Supreme Court's decision on Citizens United allows the right to fight fire with fire.

Besides, look at the marriage amendments. In nearly every state, the gay "marriage" supporters outspend their opponents 2 to 1 (in Florida, it was about 3 to 1). Yet, they're 0-32.

Straw Man

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Re: Does wisconsin matter?
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2012, 06:24:36 PM »
Stop crying, you fucking baby. What's the matter? Upset that the unions aren't the only ones with money to throw around now?

http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php

Take a look at that list and jog on, crybaby.

who's crying

I'm stating my opinion and it's the same opinion I've had all along

Below this sentence I've listed all the name of people who have given anonymous and unlimited money to PACS (on both sides) which will be used to undermine your democratic process





















































MCWAY

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Re: Does wisconsin matter?
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2012, 06:28:20 PM »
Fox News says the results should be coming shortly.

With 6% reporting Walker and Kleefisch are both up by at least 15 points. But, it's officially still "too close to call".

Princess L

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Re: Does wisconsin matter?
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2012, 06:31:24 PM »
Currently only 4% reporting.  Long ways to go... sigh

The (unofficial) voter fraud going on today in Milwaukee is scary.  Of course we have no voter ID requirement (more bullshit).
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MCWAY

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Re: Does wisconsin matter?
« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2012, 06:34:03 PM »
Currently only 4% reporting.  Long ways to go... sigh

I got 8% reporting, according to Fox. Walker's up 18; Kleefisch is up 16.

I don't think they've counted Madison or the other liberal cities and counties yet. If they have, it's all over but the crying. As of now, however, it's too close to call.

MCWAY

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Re: Does wisconsin matter?
« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2012, 06:38:31 PM »
Currently only 4% reporting.  Long ways to go... sigh

The (unofficial) voter fraud going on today in Milwaukee is scary.  Of course we have no voter ID requirement (more bullshit).

10% reporting, Walker is up 22, Kleefisch up 18. If this holds, it won't matter. An @$$-beating takes away any voter fraud that the left can generate.


Princess L

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Re: Does wisconsin matter?
« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2012, 06:38:45 PM »
I got 8% reporting, according to Fox. Walker's up 18; Kleefisch is up 16.

I don't think they've counted Madison or the other liberal cities and counties yet. If they have, it's all over but the crying. As of now, however, it's too close to call.

Wait for Dane, Milwaukee, Ozaukee, Washington and Waukesha counties.  Unfortunately, they historically are the last to report, especially Waukesha (R).
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