Author Topic: Ron Paul thinks Social Security is Unconstitutional......... but he's on it.  (Read 9287 times)

GigantorX

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no it should NOT be this way....do you actually think these guys under 25 are going to actually SAVE THEIR MONEY?????...they will spend it all on drinking and whoring...I know I would.......and then we will be stuck with the bill anyway of supporting them in their old age

So it's the governments (and by extension, tax paying citizens) job to to coddle and support those who don't save their money?

And if you support that idea then you should have no problem with bailing out banks, trading institutions and corporations regardless of the decisions they have made, correct?

I'll pass on that.

garebear

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'No stealing without representation' was actually the founding fathers' call.

Then, we all became slaves.

The end.
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kcballer

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That is the craziest damn argument I've ever read on here.


No it's not. It's about a principals. If Ron Paul has an anti-social security principal then collects SS, that is the exact same type of hypocrisy i mentioned above. Ron Paul is suppose to be all about his core beliefs and principals, that's what makes him so appealing. His message is the same. Except when it's time to collect his cheque, then he's gonna line up like everyone else.

Typical politician really. It's a shame you Paultards try to elevate him to saintly status when in reality he's just another snakeoil salesman in office. Telling you one thing, then doing another.
Abandon every hope...

avxo

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What's with your ridiculous 'at the point of a gun' statement? You seem like an intelligent guy and I can't, for the life of me, figure out why you keep repeating this.

It's a figure of speech, meant to indicate I am being forced to act against my better judgement.


I guess I had to pay taxes for wars I didn't support 'at the point of a gun'.

Whether you support the particular wars is irrelevant imo. National defense is a proper function of government, one we should pay taxes for. You can argue that the wars weren't in the interest of national defense and a whole host of other issues, but whether you, specifically, supported them or not is irrelevant.


I guess I can't shoplift in America 'at the point of a gun'.

When you shoplift, you are doing it at the point of a gun - a gun that you're holding. You are using force to deprive other people of their property. You cannot steal except through the use of force.


Why do I, a person without children, have to pay taxes for education 'at the point of a gun'?

You shouldn't have to. But you are forced, by the government, whether in the form of property taxes ("pay this or we take your house") or in the form of income taxes ("pay this or we take you to Court") or any of the other forms of taxation.


Who is pointing a gun at you?

Anyone who is forcing me to act against my will and against my better judgement. I'm being forced to contribute to social security - a service I do not want or need - at the point of the government's proverbial gun: I work, and so the law compels me to contribute. I'm being forced to pay for the government to subsidize telephone service for those who are poor or live in rural areas - something I have no desire to do - at the point of the government's proverbial gun: they add mandatory fees to services I do want. The list goes on.



No it's not. It's about a principals. If Ron Paul has an anti-social security principal then collects SS, that is the exact same type of hypocrisy i mentioned above. Ron Paul is suppose to be all about his core beliefs and principals, that's what makes him so appealing. His message is the same. Except when it's time to collect his cheque, then he's gonna line up like everyone else.

It is about principle. Ron Paul's principle is that you should get to keep your own money. If he can recover some of the money taken from him, then to not recover it would be the hypocrisy. It's neither inconsistent nor dishonest.


Typical politician really. It's a shame you Paultards try to elevate him to saintly status when in reality he's just another snakeoil salesman in office. Telling you one thing, then doing another.

I don't think Ron Paul is some kind of of Saint. But I see nothing problematic with his actions here.

Soul Crusher

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It's a figure of speech, meant to indicate I am being forced to act against my better judgement.


Whether you support the particular wars is irrelevant imo. National defense is a proper function of government, one we should pay taxes for. You can argue that the wars weren't in the interest of national defense and a whole host of other issues, but whether you, specifically, supported them or not is irrelevant.


When you shoplift, you are doing it at the point of a gun - a gun that you're holding. You are using force to deprive other people of their property. You cannot steal except through the use of force.


You shouldn't have to. But you are forced, by the government, whether in the form of property taxes ("pay this or we take your house") or in the form of income taxes ("pay this or we take you to Court") or any of the other forms of taxation.


Anyone who is forcing me to act against my will and against my better judgement. I'm being forced to contribute to social security - a service I do not want or need - at the point of the government's proverbial gun: I work, and so the law compels me to contribute. I'm being forced to pay for the government to subsidize telephone service for those who are poor or live in rural areas - something I have no desire to do - at the point of the government's proverbial gun: they add mandatory fees to services I do want. The list goes on.



It is about principle. Ron Paul's principle is that you should get to keep your own money. If he can recover some of the money taken from him, then to not recover it would be the hypocrisy. It's neither inconsistent nor dishonest.


I don't think Ron Paul is some kind of of Saint. But I see nothing problematic with his actions here.



Garebare won't recover.   

andreisdaman

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So it's the governments (and by extension, tax paying citizens) job to to coddle and support those who don't save their money?

And if you support that idea then you should have no problem with bailing out banks, trading institutions and corporations regardless of the decisions they have made, correct?

I'll pass on that.

Dude..what planet are you living on???...When you make posts like these you disappoint me because I KNOW you are smarter than this.....you and I both know that A LARGE PERCENTAGE OF THE POPULATION CANNOT SAVE MONEY OR CANNOT SAVE ENOUGH TO CARRY THEM THROUGH OLD AGE.....many people simply do not make enough money to do so ..simple as that...especially those with children..a guy making $30,000 a year or minimum wages cannot save money unless they are living with their mother like 3333..not to mention at least those on SS actually paid something into their retirement

and you already know this.......and you compare taking care of people in their old age to giving bailouts to millionaires and billionaires....come on!..lets at least be intellectually honest here

avxo

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So your solution for people not making enough money to save is to take the money from them by force? Sounds reasonable!

andreisdaman

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So your solution for people not making enough money to save is to take the money from them by force? Sounds reasonable!

no one is taking anything by force...don't be a jerk-off with your rhetoric.....I don't see IRS agents with guns knocking down people's door and forcing taxes from people at gunpoint....a gov't must take care of all, not just those who can rely on themselves...the nation cannot stand united and defend itself if large portions of the population are hungry, sick, broke, without shelter, etc...

tu_holmes

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no one is taking anything by force...don't be a jerk-off with your rhetoric.....I don't see IRS agents with guns knocking down people's door and forcing taxes from people at gunpoint....a gov't must take care of all, not just those who can rely on themselves...the nation cannot stand united and defend itself if large portions of the population are hungry, sick, broke, without shelter, etc...

When people are sent to prison due to "Tax Evasion", how the hell is that not done at the barrel of a gun?

That's crazy talk man... CRAZY.

You absolutely have ALWAYS paid your taxes in your lifetime at the end of a gun barrel... ALWAYS.

Shockwave

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no one is taking anything by force...don't be a jerk-off with your rhetoric.....I don't see IRS agents with guns knocking down people's door and forcing taxes from people at gunpoint....a gov't must take care of all, not just those who can rely on themselves...the nation cannot stand united and defend itself if large portions of the population are hungry, sick, broke, without shelter, etc...
Its not the governments responsibility to make sure the citizens have enough money for retirement. That responsibility belongs to no one but the citizen.
Oh, and when they deduct the money straight out of your paycheck, Id say that's considered "taking by force"

andreisdaman

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When people are sent to prison due to "Tax Evasion", how the hell is that not done at the barrel of a gun?

That's crazy talk man... CRAZY.

You absolutely have ALWAYS paid your taxes in your lifetime at the end of a gun barrel... ALWAYS.

people voluntarily pay because they are fair-minded and want to pay their share.....but I realize arguing with a neophyte serves no purpose..so lets move on

Soul Crusher

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people voluntarily pay because they are fair-minded and want to pay their share.....but I realize arguing with a neophyte serves no purpose..so lets move on


andreisdaman

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Its not the governments responsibility to make sure the citizens have enough money for retirement. That responsibility belongs to no one but the citizen.
Oh, and when they deduct the money straight out of your paycheck, Id say that's considered "taking by force"

all I can say is....ssssiiiigggghhhh.. ........................ ....................lets move on

tu_holmes

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people voluntarily pay because they are fair-minded and want to pay their share.....but I realize arguing with a neophyte serves no purpose..so lets move on

Now I know you're just trolling... That's just ridiculous.

You pay taxes because you WANT to?

I don't usually have a problem people having their opinions, but if you TRULY believe this, then all that shit that 333333333.2934283467264 says about you may be accurate.

This is crazy talk and I can no longer take you serious AT ALL.

andreisdaman

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Now I know you're just trolling... That's just ridiculous.

You pay taxes because you WANT to?

I don't usually have a problem people having their opinions, but if you TRULY believe this, then all that shit that 333333333.2934283467264 says about you may be accurate.

This is crazy talk and I can no longer take you serious AT ALL.

dude....do me a favor..THINK......do I have to spell everything out for you?...are you that retarded????....Americans have been conditioned to accept paying taxes as a way to take care of the country and provide services.....Americans willingly pay taxes in the sense that every goddamn year HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS fill out forms, place it in the mail, and send out their returns without any one having to actually make then do so ......I have never seen a guy with a gun walking someone to the mailbox to make them send out their returns..HAVE YOU>>????  yes there is consciousness in the back of their minds that they could get in trouble if they don't, but they do comply..

just like your mother complied with sending you to school....it wasn't at the barrel for a gun but she did it because she knew it was ultimately the right thing to so....and again..millions of people comply with this as well...or do you think the gov't is wrong to compel kids to go to school too????

tu_holmes

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dude....do me a favor..THINK......do I have to spell everything out for you?...are you that retarded????....Americans have been conditioned to accept paying taxes as a way to take care of the country and provide services.....Americans willingly pay taxes in the sense that every goddamn year HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS fill out forms, place it in the mail, and send out their returns without any one having to actually make then do so ......I have never seen a guy with a gun walking someone to the mailbox to make them send out their returns..HAVE YOU>>????  yes there is consciousness in the back of their minds that they could get in trouble if they don't, but they do comply..

just like your mother complied with sending you to school....it wasn't at the barrel for a gun but she did it because she knew it was ultimately the right thing to so....and again..millions of people comply with this as well...or do you think the gov't is wrong to compel kids to go to school too????

I think you are delusional.

I send my kids to school because I want them to be intelligent and have a better life than their fucking neighbors... It's for them to SUCCEED.

No one wants to pay taxes... NO ONE.

We do it because:

1. It's necessary
2. It's required.

But to say anyone WANTS to do it is just goddam idiotic.

Seriously... You have lost your fucking mind.

avxo

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no one is taking anything by force...

Right. I totally don't forcibly have taxes withheld with every paycheck I get. I give up over $1,500 a month totally by choice.


don't be a jerk-off with your rhetoric.....I don't see IRS agents with guns knocking down people's door and forcing taxes from people at gunpoint...

No. They take the money out of people's paychecks directly. Much more efficient. And


a gov't must take care of all, not just those who can rely on themselves...

If people can't rely on themselves, they can only rely on the kindness of others. Not the government. It's not the government's job to take care of anyone. The government is not your nanny or your caretaker.


the nation cannot stand united and defend itself if large portions of the population are hungry, sick, broke, without shelter, etc...

So you want the government to provide food, healthcare, money and housing... How are you going to provide these things if people like me, who are productive, stop giving you a blank check?

avxo

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people voluntarily pay

Right... that's why the government mandates that taxes are withheld from paychecks and why many people are in jail for not paying their taxes. Because people voluntarily pay. ::)


because they are fair-minded and want to pay their share.....

People would voluntarily pay taxes IF the services the government provided them were services they genuinely wanted and thought the government should provide.

andreisdaman

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I think you are delusional.

I send my kids to school because I want them to be intelligent and have a better life than their fucking neighbors... It's for them to SUCCEED.

No one wants to pay taxes... NO ONE.

We do it because:

1. It's necessary
2. It's required.

But to say anyone WANTS to do it is just goddam idiotic.

Seriously... You have lost your fucking mind.


sigh.......I don't blame you for your idiotic post.....months upon months of reading 3333's posts have warped your mind...I never said Americans want to pay taxes..just that they voluntarily do so and accept the premise as to why....

avxo

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sigh.......I don't blame you for your idiotic post.....months upon months of reading 3333's posts have warped your mind...I never said Americans want to pay taxes..just that they voluntarily do so and accept the premise as to why....

So they don't want to pay taxes, but they pay voluntarily? ??? How does that compute? And if they voluntarily pay them, why is there a law that mandates that taxes be withheld from paychecks?

andreisdaman

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So they don't want to pay taxes, but they pay voluntarily? ??? How does that compute? And if they voluntarily pay them, why is there a law that mandates that taxes be withheld from paychecks?

like I said..lets move on..why go on and on in circles ?????

Soul Crusher

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So they don't want to pay taxes, but they pay voluntarily? ??? How does that compute? And if they voluntarily pay them, why is there a law that mandates that taxes be withheld from paychecks?

Basically it comes down to this - Andre is a welfarist and a statist.   He knows that given the choice most of us would not pay a dime given how badly the govt squanders tax money. 

 

Shockwave

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like I said..lets move on..why go on and on in circles ?????
The point - is that the choice between paying taxes, or going to jail, isnt a choice.
You seem to think people dont have to pay their taxes if they choose not to file - but the alternative is jail time.

Its an illusion of choice - but there really is no choice.

If someone put a gun to your head, and said "gimme your wallet or I blow your brains out", you really dont have a choice, do you?

tu_holmes

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sigh.......I don't blame you for your idiotic post.....months upon months of reading 3333's posts have warped your mind...I never said Americans want to pay taxes..just that they voluntarily do so and accept the premise as to why....

Dude, I'm responding to what YOU wrote...

No one does so voluntarily... people are FORCED to do it... and if everyone "accepted" the premise, then why is there such a ruckus over our spending every year?

Obviously people understand taxes are a necessary evil, but that in and of itself shows that people would much rather not pay them and every year people spend as much money as possible to have to pay as little as possible.

vol·un·tar·y  (vln-tr)
adj.
1. Done or undertaken of one's own free will: a voluntary decision to leave the job.
2. Acting or done willingly and without constraint or expectation of reward: a voluntary host

WRONG.

We do not do it of our own free will, we are forced to do it and we certainly expect some contraint.

andreisdaman

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Basically it comes down to this - Andre is a welfarist and a statist.   He knows that given the choice most of us would not pay a dime given how badly the govt squanders tax money. 

 

sigh.......lets move on