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Author Topic: Should the government do a better job with vets?  (Read 3327 times)
Shizzo
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« on: June 23, 2012, 03:09:21 PM »

  I just read a story about an Iraq war veteran, who had to sell his medal on ebay.  He was broke, and wanted to get enough money to buy a lawnmower, so he could start a landscaping business.  The people responded, and the listing ended at 5,800+ dollars.  

I think that it is pathetic it had to come to this.  I think 4 year vets should get 10k a year for the rest of their lives.  I think 8 year vets should get 30k etc.... These fuckers put their life on the line for us.  They shouldn't have to put 20 years behind enemy lines for a fucking retirement package.

Either that, or bump every soldiers pay to 50,000 mininum every year. I'm sure our goverment is wasting money elsewhere.
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Mattyh7688
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« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2012, 03:18:16 PM »

I support our troops 100% but becoming a "soldier" requires little qualification and they are given housing and food allowances, on top of signing bonuses, free future education, etc. I know soldiers with free undergrad and GRAD school, ON TOP of housing allowance after they were in the service. The system is put into place for these guys to do something with their lives after the service. If they decide not too, it isn't my job to pay a retired vet 10k a year. My dad was actually in Vietnam and he doesn't expect government handouts from a job he did 40 years ago.
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muscularny
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« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2012, 03:21:17 PM »

yes!
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I beg to differ!
SF1900
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« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2012, 03:33:53 PM »

People with all different kind of jobs risk their lives every day and some even do it for 30+ years.
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Shizzo
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« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2012, 03:37:22 PM »

People with all different kind of jobs risk their lives every day and some even do it for 30+ years.
I think all vets should get a little something guaranteed.  Free education obviously doesn't mean shit today, with the job market as it is.
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Shizzo
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« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2012, 03:40:18 PM »

I support our troops 100% but becoming a "soldier" requires little qualification and they are given housing and food allowances, on top of signing bonuses, free future education, etc. I know soldiers with free undergrad and GRAD school, ON TOP of housing allowance after they were in the service. The system is put into place for these guys to do something with their lives after the service. If they decide not too, it isn't my job to pay a retired vet 10k a year. My dad was actually in Vietnam and he doesn't expect government handouts from a job he did 40 years ago.
I think a soldier should earn more then a retail manager (not even a store manager)
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gracie bjj
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« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2012, 03:44:36 PM »

the veitnam vets really got screwed Sad
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R
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« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2012, 03:45:03 PM »

If the economy was booming then yes, give more back. The reality is the gov't can't afford to support any more people. The only monetary changes should be in the form of cuts.
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Shizzo
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« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2012, 03:49:33 PM »

If the economy was booming then yes, give more back. The reality is the gov't can't afford to support any more people. The only monetary changes should be in the form of cuts.
Bullshit.  I'm sure the goverment can cut back on some of the bullshit spending that they do.  Like some of Obama's legendary vacations.  They are reported to cost millions of dollars each, with all the prep and securtity etc.....  They can easily cut the bullshit out of the spending.  The army is the artery of America.
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syntaxmachine
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« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2012, 03:49:54 PM »

No.

Members of the military receive comprehensive healthcare for themselves and their dependents. Under the GI Bill they receive (on average) $73k in tuition credits to get a college education. Bush signed a new law in 2008 that adds to this number for those who served after 9/11.

Salaries aren't high but when non-cash benefits are factored in, military personnel have comparable total compensation to members of the private sector with similar skills and education. The CBO did a study on compensation in the military and found that a 20 year old high school graduate earned about $33K in cash compensation and a further $28K in non-cash and deferred benefits. Your average E-6 with 12 years of service gets $96K in total compensation.

Then, there are re-enlistment bonuses, bonuses for NCO's who receive training in certain specialties (CSRB's - Critical Skills Retention Bonuses), and further benefits for actually serving in a warzone. These wartime bonuses include tax-free combat pay and Family Separation Allowances for those with families.

Finally, military personnel with the requisite amount of experience are often poached by private contractors, where they will make even more money.

Anybody who enters a compensation scheme like this and ends up broke and selling medals on ebay has some extreme problems attributable to him and him alone. He has my sympathy but the system is not to blame for his predicament.
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Mattyh7688
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« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2012, 03:51:10 PM »

No.

Members of the military receive comprehensive healthcare for themselves and their dependents. Under the GI Bill they receive (on average) $73k in tuition credits to get a college education. Bush signed a new law in 2008 that adds to this number for those who served after 9/11.

Salaries aren't high but when non-cash benefits are factored in, military personnel have comparable total compensation to members of the private sector with similar skills and education. The CBO did a study on compensation and found that a 20 year old high school graduate earned about $33K in cash compensation and a further $28K in non-cash and deferred benefits. Your average E-6 with 12 years of service gets $96K in total compensation.

Finally, there are re-enlistment bonuses, bonuses for NCO's who receive training in certain specialties (CSRB's - Critical Skills Retention Bonuses), and further benefits for actually serving in a warzone. These wartime bonuses include tax-free combat pay and Family Separation Allowances for those with families.

Finally, military personnel with the requisite amount of experience are often poached by private contractors, where they will make even more money.

Anybody who enters a compensation scheme like this and ends up broke and selling medals on ebay has some extreme problems attributable to him and him alone.

/thread
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Shizzo
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« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2012, 03:52:20 PM »

No.

Members of the military receive comprehensive healthcare for themselves and their dependents. Under the GI Bill they receive (on average) $73k in tuition credits to get a college education. Bush signed a new law in 2008 that adds to this number for those who served after 9/11.

Salaries aren't high but when non-cash benefits are factored in, military personnel have comparable total compensation to members of the private sector with similar skills and education. The CBO did a study on compensation and found that a 20 year old high school graduate earned about $33K in cash compensation and a further $28K in non-cash and deferred benefits. Your average E-6 with 12 years of service gets $96K in total compensation.Finally, there are re-enlistment bonuses, bonuses for NCO's who receive training in certain specialties (CSRB's - Critical Skills Retention Bonuses), and further benefits for actually serving in a warzone. These wartime bonuses include tax-free combat pay and Family Separation Allowances for those with families.

Finally, military personnel with the requisite amount of experience are often poached by private contractors, where they will make even more money.

Anybody who enters a compensation scheme like this and ends up broke and selling medals on ebay has some extreme problems attributable to him and him alone.
A 12 year vet should get that much.  That's 12 years in the line of fire.
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Shizzo
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« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2012, 03:52:57 PM »

/thread
Hi Syntax.
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Mattyh7688
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« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2012, 03:53:01 PM »

A 12 year vet should get that much.  That's 12 years in the line of fire.
Who do you know that has spent 12 years straight in Iraq?
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Shockwave
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« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2012, 03:54:01 PM »

Yeah, definatley dont think we should recieve a lifelong pension just for serving.
This is coming from someone who served.
People that make it long enough to retire recieve a pretty decent retirement anyway.
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Shizzo
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« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2012, 03:55:05 PM »

Who do you know that has spent 12 years straight in Iraq?
I know that we are not constantly at war.  It is the fact that they can be called upon at any moment to sacrifice their lives.  
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Mattyh7688
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« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2012, 03:56:33 PM »

I know that we are not constantly at war.  It is the fact that they can be called upon at any moment to sacrifice their lives.  
I still registered for the draft.. so can I. And there are certain things that will limit the number of tours you do and time you actually spend in combat.  Next argument.
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Shizzo
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« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2012, 03:56:54 PM »

Yeah, definatley dont think we should recieve a lifelong pension just for serving.
This is coming from someone who served.
People that make it long enough to retire recieve a pretty decent retirement anyway.
I can respect your assesment.  What are the retirement packages?  I think they should get something more then just a free education.  A degree doesn't get you anywhere these days.
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Mattyh7688
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« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2012, 03:58:27 PM »

Yeah, definatley dont think we should recieve a lifelong pension just for serving.
This is coming from someone who served.
People that make it long enough to retire recieve a pretty decent retirement anyway.
I don't know how much they make, but I have a couple friends who dads were in the military for their entire career and retired.. from the looks of things they are definitely "ok", one actually was able to send 4 kids to my high school which was $6500 a year each. All of them had very nice homes and newer cars. I know that doesn't say much about their financial status these days but it shows these guys aren't on the street.
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« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2012, 03:59:09 PM »

the veitnam vets really got screwed Sad
BIGTIME !!  Sad
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Shizzo
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« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2012, 04:01:03 PM »

I don't know how much they make, but I have a couple friends who dads were in the military for their entire career and retired.. from the looks of things they are definitely "ok", one actually was able to send 4 kids to my high school which was $6500 a year each. All of them had very nice homes and newer cars. I know that doesn't say much about their financial status these days but it shows these guys aren't on the street.
Yeah but most of the guys who are high ranks, never really see the field right?  Maybe they should factor in a percentage of how long you were actually out in combat.  I don't think a dude sitting behind a desk should get more then a guy who has done 3+ tours.
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Mattyh7688
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« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2012, 04:11:41 PM »

Yeah but most of the guys who are high ranks, never really see the field right?  Maybe they should factor in a percentage of how long you were actually out in combat.  I don't think a dude sitting behind a desk should get more then a guy who has done 3+ tours.
Some of those guys are a lot more instrumental in the art of war than the guys actually in combat. The intelligence guys are a huge advantage and can be the difference between winning or losing or saving thousands of lives. The military is way to complex now.. it isn't the 1700's where guys just line up and fire at each other.
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Shizzo
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« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2012, 04:14:19 PM »

Some of those guys are a lot more instrumental in the art of war than the guys actually in combat. The intelligence guys are a huge advantage and can be the difference between winning or losing or saving thousands of lives.
You guys have valid points.  The whole point of this thread was to hear both sides.  I think they can spend a a little less on multi million dollar missiles, and mega million jets and tanks etc....  Filter some of that money back into the backbone of the army.
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Shockwave
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« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2012, 04:17:18 PM »

Yeah but most of the guys who are high ranks, never really see the field right?  Maybe they should factor in a percentage of how long you were actually out in combat.  I don't think a dude sitting behind a desk should get more then a guy who has done 3+ tours.
Well, the higher guys were the lower guys at one point. They very well may have had to been in the field when they were a lower rank.
Infantry officers have to lead a platoon before they can move on to commanding a company, and on to a battalion, etc, etc.
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Shizzo
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« Reply #24 on: June 23, 2012, 04:19:33 PM »

Well, the higher guys were the lower guys at one point. They very well may have had to been in the field when they were a lower rank.
Infantry officers have to lead a platoon before they can move on to commanding a company, and on to a battalion, etc, etc.
Depends.  My cousin says that they hate fucking higher ups that come straight from school, that have never seen the field.  He said they don't respect them.  You should definately have field exp. before you can get promoted in the Army.
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