Supreme Court Upholds Individual Mandate

[shootfighter1]

...get Bret Weir I said.....I absolutely loved the Jerky Boyz.

[garebear]

Supreme Court Rewrites ObamaCare; Rules Individual Mandate Is Permissible Tax
The New American ^ | June 28 2012 | Joe Wolverton, II
Posted on June 28, 2012 8:34:54 PM EDT by ScottfromNJ

“Simply put, Congress may tax and spend.” With those historic words, the Supreme Court forced upon the United States a bleak dawn of a brave new world in which the federal government cannot be checked in its march toward totalitarianism.

In a 5-4 decision the Supreme Court upheld the joint venture of the President and Congress to force every American, regardless of ability or desire, to purchase a qualifying health care insurance plan by 2014 or face a tax penalty for failure to comply.

Chief Justice Roberts, writing for the Court, held while the “individual mandate is not a valid exercise of Congress’s power under the Commerce Clause and the Necessary and Proper Clause,” it is valid as an exercise of the taxing power granted the federal government by the Constitution.

One practical effect of today’s ruling is that by removing the ObamaCare scheme from its safe and secure Commerce Clause mooring, the Supreme Court has rewritten the law and converted the individual mandate into a tax, thus placing it within the authority of Congress to define.

This is judicial activism at its finest. The Supreme Court was so determined to endow the federal government with unlimited power and to toss the notion of enumerated powers onto the scrap heap of history that it was willing to effect a fundamental change to the law as enacted by Congress and the President.

Today, the U.S. Supreme Court not only re-wrote ObamaCare, but it simultaneously united the power of making and interpreting law into their own unelected hands.

As the states have become servants, they may yet regain their proper role as masters. In this there is hope, in fact.

The states, through the exercise of the Tenth Amendment and their natural right to rule as sovereign entities, may stop ObamaCare at the state borders by enacting state statutes nullifying the healthcare law and criminalizing state participation in administering or executing the unconstitutional provisions thereof.








Digesting.

Fuck you George w. 
Fuck you roberts
Fuck you Obama.

That's a lot of fucking.

[Soul Crusher]

...get Bret Weir I said.....I absolutely loved the Jerky Boyz.

I had those tapes two years before they hit the market.   They were NYC icons on dubbed cassettes for years before they went public.

[Straw Man]

Merely having insurance isn't enough. Obama also LIED THROUGH HIS TEETH about people being able to keep what they have and lowering premiums. Both were BS, not to mention his LYING about not raising taxes on people.

And if you think this isn't going to cost him people who voted for him in 2008, you are smoking more weed than Snoop Dogg. It was those swing voters who helped start the shellacking the Dems took two years ago.

People's premiums are not only going UP, they're going up because they're gradually being forced to pay for mess they don't need nor want.

Even if there are people who can afford but choose not to do so, this is absolute GARBAGE for the government to say that it can force you to buy something or tax you to death until you do. Just wait until Uncle Sam forces you to purchase something you don't want or fine you. Then, we'll see how much you sing the praises of this mess.

What you're doing is simply making excuses, by dismissing the fines as "small" and claiming that possibly being jailed for not paying them wasn't a reality.

clarify please and no one is going to be jailed so why do you continue to make that false claim

If someone told you this recently or today then they lied to you

http://mediamatters.org/research/201004140065

JCT: "Non-compliance with" the insurance mandate "is not subject to criminal or civil penalties." The Joint Committee on Taxation stated in its analysis of the revenue provisions of the Senate health care reform bill and the health care reconciliation bill that "individuals who fail to maintain minimum essential [health insurance] coverage in 2016 are subject" to a fee, but that "[n]on-compliance" with that provision "is not subject to criminal or civil penalties."

Earlier versions of reform legislation provided for "criminal penalties" only for those who refused to pay the fee. Both the House and the Senate versions of health care reform required individuals to be covered by a minimum level of health insurance or pay a monetary penalty. A November 2009 letter from the Joint Committee on Taxation on the House health care bill stated that individuals who did not have such coverage and refused to pay the fine would be subject to "civil and criminal penalties for noncompliance." The committee's letter explains that the tax code provides penalties to prevent tax evasion of any sort: "The Code provides for both civil and criminal penalties to ensure complete and accurate reporting of tax liability and to discourage fraudulent attempts to defeat or evade tax." [Joint Committee on Taxation letter, 11/5/09]

[MCWAY]

clarify please and no one is going to be jailed so why do you continue to make that false claim

If someone told you this recently or today then they lied to you

http://mediamatters.org/research/201004140065
 

The people who lied to me (and the rest of the country) are Obama and the Democrats.

Pelosi is the one who floated this idea. What part of that don't you understand?

And, you're REALLY GOING to sit there and claim that, if you don't pay a fine by the government (with thousands of IRS agents at the ready) there will be no criminal nor civil penalties?

That falls right in line with:

- If you like your plan, you can keep it
- If you make under $250,000, your taxes will not increase 'one single dime'"
- ObamaCare is not a tax
- It won't affect Medicare
- It will lower premiums.
- The cost will be under a trillion dollars.

And that's just the short list of BS about ObamaCare. We've just seen Obama say, 'To hell with the law" when it comes to immigration. Yet, you're silly enough to believe that people will be left unscathed, if they don't pony up to Uncle Sam.

[Soul Crusher]

The Supreme Court's Ruling Is As Damaging As It Is Historic
IBD Editorials ^ | June 28, 2012 | TOM STEMBERG
Posted on June 28, 2012 9:58:47 PM EDT by Kaslin

This week the Supreme Court delivered one of the most consequential and highly anticipated rulings in history — it upheld President Obama's health care law. In doing so, the court — and this administration — dealt a critical blow to free enterprise and ensured that taxes will go up for middle class working families and small businesses everywhere.

This dims prospects for economic growth, while leaving in place the barriers to hiring imposed by the law, like costly, burdensome regulations and pervasive uncertainty.

I've always believed that President Obama's health care law was and is bad politics and bad policy — mainly because the law fails to deliver what we so desperately need: true reform that will actually lower the cost of health insurance and fix a broken system.

Pursuing a drastic overhaul of our nation's health care system — one-sixth of our economy — was bad politics. With over 5 million long-term unemployed, the top priority for this administration should have been getting the American people back to work. Instead, the policies coming out of Washington have been nothing more than a regulatory onslaught on small businesses, the engine of the American economy, making it more difficult and costly for them to survive.

Conventional wisdom holds that it will be extremely difficult for Obama to win re-election with unemployment rates persisting above 8%. To lower that number by Election Day would require creating 200,000 jobs per month between now and then, making the president's lack of focus on a pro-growth jobs policy all the more confusing.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.investors.com ...

[Mr. Magoo]

lots of meltdowns going on today

[Straw Man]

The people who lied to me (and the rest of the country) are Obama and the Democrats.

Pelosi is the one who floated this idea. What part of that don't you understand?
And, you're REALLY GOING to sit there and claim that, if you don't pay a fine by the government (with thousands of IRS agents at the ready) there will be no criminal nor civil penalties?

That falls right in line with:

- If you like your plan, you can keep it
- If you make under $250,000, your taxes will not increase 'one single dime'"
- ObamaCare is not a tax
- It won't affect Medicare
- It will lower premiums.
- The cost will be under a trillion dollars.

And that's just the short list of BS about ObamaCare. We've just seen Obama say, 'To hell with the law" when it comes to immigration. Yet, you're silly enough to believe that people will be left unscathed, if they don't pony up to Uncle Sam.

It's not in the final legislation

what part of that don't you understand

Seriously dude - I gave you the quotes from the Joint Committee on Taxation and the links

now how about you explain how you think it is that I will still be subject to a fine if I have insurance

[MCWAY]

It's not in the final legislation

what part of that don't you understand

Seriously dude - I gave you the quotes from the Joint Committee on Taxation and the links

now how about you explain how you think it is that I will still be subject to a fine if I have insurance

In case you missed it, Obama has a habit of thumbing his nose at legislation (or parts of it) he doesn't like. Immigration and the Defense Of Marriage Act are two such examples.

I don't need to explain your silly scenario, since I never claimed that people with insurance would be fined. People who don't have or want insurance will be fine. And what happens when you don't pay that fine, especially with the IRS in the mix?

The same thing that happens when you don't pay other taxes for sustained periods of time: You face jail time.

ObamaCare is a TAX. Those who don't pay taxes are subject to criminal and civil penalties.

[garebear]

In case you missed it, Obama has a habit of thumbing his nose at legislation (or parts of it) he doesn't like. Immigration and the Defense Of Marriage Act are two such examples.

I don't need to explain your silly scenario, since I never claimed that people with insurance would be fined. People who don't have or want insurance will be fine. And what happens when you don't pay that fine, especially with the IRS in the mix?

The same thing that happens when you don't pay other taxes for sustained periods of time: You face jail time.

ObamaCare is a TAX. Those who don't pay taxes are subject to criminal and civil penalties.

Admit it. You're just angry that kids with pre-existing conditions will be able to get insurance now.

[Soul Crusher]

Admit it. You're just angry that kids with pre-existing conditions will be able to get insurance now.

Damn right.   Hope all die.   .

[MCWAY]

Admit it. You're just angry that kids with pre-existing conditions will be able to get insurance now.

Woefully off the mark again, Garebear. ObamaCare was not necessary to have that happen.

Explain again why Obama and the Dems had to lie their backsides off, to get this passed again and why they got BEAT UP in 2010, after they passed it, if this law is so splendid.

It's been two years, yet this law is more LOATHED with each passing day. Why haven't the Dems been able to sell ObamaCare after all this time?

[Straw Man]

In case you missed it, Obama has a habit of thumbing his nose at legislation (or parts of it) he doesn't like. Immigration and the Defense Of Marriage Act are two such examples.

I don't need to explain your silly scenario, since I never claimed that people with insurance would be fined. People who don't have or want insurance will be fine. And what happens when you don't pay that fine, especially with the IRS in the mix?

The same thing that happens when you don't pay other taxes for sustained periods of time: You face jail time.

ObamaCare is a TAX. Those who don't pay taxes are subject to criminal and civil penalties.

Holy Schnikey I'm beginning to understand how you can believe that the Loch Ness Monster is somehow proof of Creationism.   Is this what you have to do to be a fundie - just believe something to be true even when it's contrary to evidence?

Let's review what we've learned so far:

1.  Non-compliance with" the insurance mandate "is not subject to criminal or civil penalties." The Joint Committee on Taxation stated in its analysis of the revenue provisions of the Senate health care reform bill and the health care reconciliation bill that "individuals who fail to maintain minimum essential [health insurance] coverage in 2016 are subject" to a fee, but that "[n]on-compliance" with that provision "is not subject to criminal or civil penalties."

this means there is no possible way that you or anyone else could ever be put in jail for non-compliance

2.  You've simply decided that #1 doesn't exist and you're going to continue to harp about a 2009 video by Nancy Pelosi and insist that it is currently true.   You simply choose to believe something that is provably false

The sad part is that you'll probably repeat this lie to your fundie friends (who were probably home schooled and aren't that bright to begin with ) and they will probably believe it's true and so on and so on

[MCWAY]

Holy Schnikey I'm beginning to understand how you can believe that the Loch Ness Monster is somehow proof of Creationism.   Is this what you have to do to be a fundie - just believe something to be true even when it's contrary to evidence?

Let's review what we've learned so far:

1.  Non-compliance with" the insurance mandate "is not subject to criminal or civil penalties." The Joint Committee on Taxation stated in its analysis of the revenue provisions of the Senate health care reform bill and the health care reconciliation bill that "individuals who fail to maintain minimum essential [health insurance] coverage in 2016 are subject" to a fee, but that "[n]on-compliance" with that provision "is not subject to criminal or civil penalties."

this means there is no possible way that you or anyone else could ever be put in jail for non-compliance

Once again, your brain can't quite digest that this administration LIED ITS TAIL OFF, to pass this bill, its costs, its impact, and the very nature of the bill itself.

There's been plenty said about this bill, that turned out to be UTTER BS!! Yet, you're actually, for lack of a better term, STUPID enough to actually buy this tripe about there being no civil or criminal penalties.

2.  You've simply decided that #1 doesn't exist and you're going to continue to harp about a 2009 video by Nancy Pelosi and insist that it is currently true.   You simply choose to believe something that is provably false

The sad part is that you'll probably repeat this lie to your fundie friends (who were probably home schooled and aren't that bright to begin with ) and they will probably believe it's true and so on and so on

The Court just ruled that ObamaCare is a tax. And when you don't pay taxes, after a certain point in time, YOU ARE SUBJECT to criminal and civil penalties, including jail.

Yet, your only brain-dead argument is that "Well, the Joint Committee On Taxation said.....".

How many things were said about ObamaCare, that turned out to be downright FALSE again?


- If you like your plan, you can keep it
- If you make under $250,000, your taxes will not increase 'one single dime' "
- ObamaCare is not a tax
- It won't affect Medicare
- It will lower premiums.
- The cost will be under a trillion dollars.


As of 2016, someone who doesn't buy insurance face a fine of nearly $700. What happens if he doesn't pay that fine nor buy insurance, again?


And as far as your clucking on the Joint Committee of Taxation goes, chew on THIS:

The President’s health law will be partially paid for by tax increases and the creation of new taxes. When Obamacare first passed, the Joint Committee on Taxation estimated that its tax hikes would total $502 billion over the next 10 years. But most of the new, higher taxes don’t kick in until later in the decade, which means that once all of the law is fully implemented, the taxpayers’ tab will be much bigger than originally estimated.

A new study by the Joint Economic Committee (JEC) revealed today that Obamacare will impose higher taxes totaling $4 trillion between now and 2035, with substantial hits on working Americans. That works out to more than $1.7 trillion over a decade—more than triple the original 10-year score.

http://blog.heritage.org/2012/04/18/top-10-most-expensive-obamacare-taxes-and-fees/

[Soul Crusher]

Obama lied, health care died.

[Straw Man]

Once again, your brain can't quite digest that this administration LIED ITS TAIL OFF, to pass this bill, its costs, its impact, and the very nature of the bill itself.

There's been plenty said about this bill, that turned out to be UTTER BS!! Yet, you're actually, for lack of a better term, STUPID enough to actually buy this tripe about there being no civil or criminal penalties.

The Court just ruled that ObamaCare is a tax. And when you don't pay taxes, after a certain point in time, YOU ARE SUBJECT to criminal and civil penalties, including jail.

Yet, your only brain-dead argument is that "Well, the Joint Committee On Taxation said.....".

How many things were said about ObamaCare, that turned out to be downright FALSE again?


- If you like your plan, you can keep it
- If you make under $250,000, your taxes will not increase 'one single dime' "
- ObamaCare is not a tax
- It won't affect Medicare
- It will lower premiums.
- The cost will be under a trillion dollars.


As of 2016, someone who doesn't buy insurance face a fine of nearly $700. What happens if he doesn't pay that fine nor buy insurance, again?


And as far as your clucking on the Joint Committee of Taxation goes, chew on THIS:

The President’s health law will be partially paid for by tax increases and the creation of new taxes. When Obamacare first passed, the Joint Committee on Taxation estimated that its tax hikes would total $502 billion over the next 10 years. But most of the new, higher taxes don’t kick in until later in the decade, which means that once all of the law is fully implemented, the taxpayers’ tab will be much bigger than originally estimated.

A new study by the Joint Economic Committee (JEC) revealed today that Obamacare will impose higher taxes totaling $4 trillion between now and 2035, with substantial hits on working Americans. That works out to more than $1.7 trillion over a decade—more than triple the original 10-year score.

http://blog.heritage.org/2012/04/18/top-10-most-expensive-obamacare-taxes-and-fees/

it doesn't matter that the court just ruled the mandate "acts like" a tax

it doesn't change the text of the legislation

why is that so hard for you to understand

let me guess, you listened to Glen Beck today and told you to believe this nonsense?

[MCWAY]

it doesn't matter that the court just ruled the mandate "acts like" a tax

it doesn't change the text of the legislation

why is that so hard for you to understand

let me guess, you listened to Glen Beck today and told you to believe this nonsense?

The text of the legislation means ZILCH to Obama when it comes to enforcement, depending on his political fortunes. DOMA and immigrations laws prove that. The text of the laws are clearly spelled out. Yet, Obama has skewered that.

Coming from a kneepadder, who cited Media Matters to make a flimsy point, your talking about Beck is quite the joke.

ObamaCare IS A TAX, pure and simple. Obama's lawyers ARGUED, under oath to the Supreme Court, that it was a tax and that court CONCURRED.

What happens when you don't pay taxes, genius? What law says that ObamaCare is exempt from this, as opposed to other taxes.

The Joint Tax Committee said ObamaCare would only hike taxes $502 million over 10 years. How did that work out again?

Of course, this wasn't supposed to be a tax in the first place. Yet, you're delusional enough to think that the Obama Administration, despite LYING about numerous aspects of this law, is somehow telling the truth about this.

How daft can you possibly be? Oh, and what happens to someone who doesn't have insurance and doesn't pay the fine, again?

[Soul Crusher]

Straw won't recover.

The text of the legislation means ZILCH to Obama when it comes to enforcement, depending on his political fortunes. DOMA and immigrations laws prove that. The text of the laws are clearly spelled that. Yet, Obama has skewered that.

Coming from a kneepadder, who cited Media Matters to make a flimsy point, your talking about Beck is quite the joke.

ObamaCare IS A TAX, pure and simple. Obama's lawyers ARGUED, under oath to the Supreme Court, that it was a tax and that court CONCURRED.

What happens when you don't pay taxes, genius? What law says that ObamaCare is exempt from this, as opposed to other taxes.

The Joint Tax Committee said ObamaCare would only hike taxes $502 million over 10 years. How did that work out again?

Of course, this wasn't supposed to be a tax in the first place. Yet, you're delusional enough to think that the Obama Administration, despite LYING about numerous aspects of this law, is somehow telling the truth about this.

How daft can you possibly be? Oh, and what happens to someone who doesn't have insurance and doesn't pay the fine, again?

[Straw Man]

The text of the legislation means ZILCH to Obama when it comes to enforcement, depending on his political fortunes. DOMA and immigrations laws prove that. The text of the laws are clearly spelled that. Yet, Obama has skewered that.

Coming from a kneepadder, who cited Media Matters to make a flimsy point, your talking about Beck is quite the joke.

ObamaCare IS A TAX, pure and simple. Obama's lawyers ARGUED, under oath to the Supreme Court, that it was a tax and that court CONCURRED.

What happens when you don't pay taxes, genius? What law says that ObamaCare is exempt from this, as opposed to other taxes.

The Joint Tax Committee said ObamaCare would only hike taxes $502 million over 10 years. How did that work out again?

Of course, this wasn't supposed to be a tax in the first place. Yet, you're delusional enough to think that the Obama Administration, despite LYING about numerous aspects of this law, is somehow telling the truth about this.

How daft can you possibly be? Oh, and what happens to someone who doesn't have insurance and doesn't pay the fine, again?

I cited Media Matters citing the actual legislation and the citation was about all the right winger liars who continue to lie a
If you actually choose to believe something that is not true then that's your problem

still waiting for you to explain how "merely having insurance isn't enough"

isn't that what frightens you even more ?

[MCWAY]

Straw won't recover.

The Dems lied about the nature, cost, parameters, and impact of ObamaCare. Yet, Straw is actually stupid enough to think they're telling the truth about not enacting civil or criminal penalties for not complying, especially with something that gives the government money.

[MCWAY]

I cited Media Matters citing the actual legislation and the citation was about all the right winger liars who continue to lie a
If you actually choose to believe something that is not true then that's your problem

still waiting for you to explain how "merely having insurance isn't enough"

isn't that what frightens you even more ?

It appears you don't read that well either. The premiums are HIGHER, not lower. And a number of people DO NOT get to keep the plans they want.

That is contrary to what Obama and his cronies said about this crock of a bill.

They LIED about the COST, the ability to keep your plan, the nature of the law itself, just to name a few things.

This IS a tax, and it would have never have passed had Mr. Transparency and his buddies told the truth about the bill.

And what happens to the guy who doesn't have insurance AND doesn't pay the fine, again?

Try answering that!!

[Soul Crusher]

If you are ever in NYC call me! 

It appears you don't read that well either. The premiums are HIGHER, not lower. And a number of people DO NOT get to keep the plans they want.

That is contrary to what Obama and his cronies said about this crock of a bill.

They LIED about the COST, the ability to keep your plan, the nature of the law itself, just to name a few things.

This IS a tax, and it would have never have passed had Mr. Transparency and his buddies told the truth about the bill.

And what happens to the guy who doesn't have insurance AND doesn't pay the fine, again?

Try answering that!!

[Straw Man]

It appears you don't read that well either. The premiums are HIGHER, not lower. And a number of people DO NOT get to keep the plans they want.

That is contrary to what Obama and his cronies said about this crock of a bill.

They LIED about the COST, the ability to keep your plan, the nature of the law itself, just to name a few things.

This IS a tax, and it would have never have passed had Mr. Transparency and his buddies told the truth about the bill.

And what happens to the guy who doesn't have insurance AND doesn't pay the fine, again?

Try answering that!!

what happened to Obama throwing you in Jail

and still waiting to see how "merely having insurance isn't enough"

come on dude

you obviously believe this and it's freaking you out so how about some valid reasons why you believe this

[Soul Crusher]

Only a progressive Marxist could applaud this slavery.

what happened to Obama throwing you in Jail

and still waiting to see how "merely having insurance isn't enough"

come on dude

you obviously believe this and it's freaking you out so how about some valid reasons why you believe this

[MCWAY]

what happened to Obama throwing you in Jail

and still waiting to see how "merely having insurance isn't enough"

come on dude

you obviously believe this and it's freaking you out so how about some valid reasons why you believe this

Nice attempt at dodging!! But, I answered your question, at least TWICE.

One more time: What happens when you don't have insurance and you DON'T pay the fine?