Lance Armstrong charged by US Anti-Doping Agency - oops

[reclifter]

Lance was just doing what was needed to win. But...

He's a high-profile, lying piece of shit, that is profiting off of his one testicle. I hope he gets caught.

If he didn't try so hard to be 'america's golden boy' then I would say let him be.

It makes you wonder why this amount of money and time catching people isn't invested into other American sports like baseball, basketball, football, etc. Sure, they have gone after few, but have busted NONE in federal court!
 
Hmm, maybe the same reason cigarettes are still legal.

[viking1]

all:  Test, EPO, GH

An amazing thing regarding this pic: This was taken at the 1996 Olympic Road Time Trial(disregard the 1999 copyright date on pic). This was about 5 weeks prior to being diagnosed with cancer. He had to stand during nearly the entire time trial(over an hour) because he complained of his testicle hurting so bad.... he couldn't sit down.  On training rides, in the prior week, he was telling his USA team mates how bad it hurt downstairs, but wasn't doing anything about it.

There were mumblings about how much muscle he put on that season...   and, how shredded/grainy his skin and conditioning was getting. All of the people involved were talking about it. "Wow, have you seen Lance?    He's huge right now...   he's so vascular". It was crazy watching him get so muscular for a pro road cyclist. He got up to 185lbs...   which for a division 1 pro roadie tour rider, that's like heavy weight bb'er size. We were amazed how big he got while riding 500 mile weeks and having a 'furnace' for a metabolism...  when he should be so catabolic.  Something was definitely fishy.

Then, 5 weeks later, the whole "cancer thing" began.

[Slapper]

I personally do not give a flying fuck about Lance taking PEDS or not. Guess what gumbahs: He had to. He was in Europe competing against guys who were taking so much EPO that they had to be monitored throughout the night for fear of thrombosis. He did what he had to do to compete.

[Coach is Back!]

Lance is no hero. He is a fake. All he is is predicated on a lie.

You say he's inspired people? Inspired them to what, to believe in his bullshit?

I hope Lance burns, along with the corrupt UCI, WADA, etc.

If hes fake, then get rid of the sport and while you're at it, get rid of football , baseball, golf, tennis, basketball and damn near.every sport on earth (exaggeration).

[sync pulse]

Allow steroids and GH under a Doctor's control...

[Big Chiro Flex]

Allow steroids and GH under a Doctor's control...

X100
Been a huge advocate of this. I see no downsides to it.

[reclifter]

Allow steroids and GH under a Doctor's control...

Problem is how do you sell this idea to the public? How do you tell an aspiring athlete (most likely a kid) that he has to pin himself 10 times a week min if he wants to 'make it' professionally and be competitive?

That doesn't even get into insulin use.

[Big Chiro Flex]

Problem is how do you sell this idea to the public? How do you tell an aspiring athlete (most likely a kid) that he has to pin himself 10 times a week min if he wants to 'make it' professionally and be competitive?

That doesn't even get into insulin use.

All good points...something to be considered.
I think a good starting point should be relaxing the rules about who is eligible for HRT. The pro sports dillemma is another can of worms

[reclifter]

All good points...something to be considered.
I think a good starting point should be relaxing the rules about who is eligible for HRT. The pro sports dillemma is another can of worms

MMA has relaxed the HRT rules a bit, but it has shown to be obviously abused.

I think drugs should be allowed in a 'controlled and 'supervised' manner, but then you will still have the guys pushing it further than what is allowed.

The other option is to step up the quality of drug testing as well as use random, Olympic style, isotope testing that is much harder to cheat with.

But that costs a lot of money, and let's face it, sports don't really want drugs gone from the sport, they just don't want people testing positive.

[Van_Bilderass]

If hes fake, then get rid of the sport and while you're at it, get rid of football , baseball, golf, tennis, basketball and damn near.every sport on earth (exaggeration).

You're a christian but support people getting rich through lies and deception?
Add to that paying off officials, intimidation of teammates who want to come clean, etc..
Do you really support this type of behavior?

I love drugs but I hate liars. Satan is the fatther of lies as you know.

Don't get rid of sports, get rid of this scam of clean sports. The only hope for change in public perception of drugs in sports is for false idols like Lance to fall. People will start reevaluating the usefulness of drug testing.

[reclifter]

You're a christian but support people getting rich through lies and deception?
Add to that paying off officials, intimidation of teammates who want to come clean, etc..
Do you really support this type of behavior?

I love drugs but I hate liars. Satan is the fatther of lies as you know.

Don't get rid of sports, get rid of this scam of clean sports. The only hope for change in public perception of drugs in sports is for false idols like Lance to fall. People will start reevaluating the usefulness of drug testing.

The whole agenda of trying to make the sports 'look clean' needs to be replaced with trying to make the sport clean by spending money on better, random drug testing...that is if cleaning up the sport was the original intent, which I don't think it is.


Bigger, Faster, record breaking numbers and athletes is what makes money.

Take away drugs, and you have smaller, slower, slumping numbers. Hmmmm.

[Alex23]

People will start reevaluating the usefulness of drug testing.

Good point.

[Hypertrophy]

Interesting reply Van Bilderass. Don't you routinely give info here on steroids? So if, and I don t know if he did or did not, Lance took PED's, why the hard-on for him? Just curious. Seems strange that an entire sport that  you, and I (used to) follow is nothing but a lab experiment is not also a bunch of lies, corrupt people, etc, etc.

As for the poster who said Lance's team mate George Hincapie announced he was going to retire when this broke in June, I  LMAO. George is my neighbor in Greenville, SC. He told me and others he was going to retire at the end of this season--18 months ago! He's sick of leaving his kids behind half the year. He's been racing since he was a very young teen and will turn 39. Pretty reasonable to retire at some point. So much for the conspiracy theorists.

Professional sports are drug fueled without a doubt. If anything, for recovery, injury treatment and to kill pain. We all hold up these sports entertainers as super heros but then get all moral when we hear they took a drug. Funny, but each us "average joes" takes something at times to perform better. Caffeine from Starbucks double and triple espressos are OK, while high levels of caffeine are on the Olympic drug list and is forbidden for athletes. as are asthma inhalers (unless you have a therapeutic exemption - lol) Epinephrine for bee stings is illegal in competition but many non competing people carry around epipens just in case. Jonathan Vaughters, a US pro cyclist, was stung by a bee in the Tour de France some years ago. He was told if he took epinephrine, he would be DQ'd because it was "performance enhancing". He quite the Tour a day later because he literally couldn't see.

By the way, if they actually did take Lances's wins away, who would they give them too? The top 10 in those tours all have a cloud of drug use on them. Be great to find someone who was squeaky clean outside of that group. Oh, and have them prove it. Because apparently a negative drug test isn't enough for a lot of people. Maybe a priest can determine who is telling the truth LOL.

A few years back, Richard Virenque, multiple holder of what is called the "Polka Dot" jersey in the Tour de France, admitted he was on EPO for the bulk of them. No jerseys were taken away, nothing. Virenque had to admit it, after he was caught red handed with evidence during the Festina raid. Interesting justice in the home of "Le Tour"

My position on drug use in sports has changed after years of competition in cycling. I am all for it now. Recent research studies have shown that high intensity aerobic exercise over an hour leads to lesions on the heart wall and actually increases the risk of heart attack. This study, a compilation of years of studies, pretty much says we were designed to not run so hard over an hour. So the "healthy" aspect of many sports isn't so healthy. Same goes for getting your head beat in by boxing, your joints smashed in pro football and hockey, and having a ball thrown by your head at 100 mph. High level sports are not healthy. This is pure entertainment and athletes go to great risk to provide it, perhaps unwillingly. So as in all forms of entertainment, I don't care what they take. If Brad Pitt is a chain smoker (which he is), Angelina Jolie does coke, or Michael Phelps hits the bong so what. Im entertained, and thats all I expect to be.

[arce1988]

  ALL PED

[Griffith]

An amazing thing regarding this pic: This was taken at the 1996 Olympic Road Time Trial(disregard the 1999 copyright date on pic). This was about 5 weeks prior to being diagnosed with cancer. He had to stand during nearly the entire time trial(over an hour) because he complained of his testicle hurting so bad.... he couldn't sit down.  On training rides, in the prior week, he was telling his USA team mates how bad it hurt downstairs, but wasn't doing anything about it.

There were mumblings about how much muscle he put on that season...   and, how shredded/grainy his skin and conditioning was getting. All of the people involved were talking about it. "Wow, have you seen Lance?    He's huge right now...   he's so vascular". It was crazy watching him get so muscular for a pro road cyclist. He got up to 185lbs...   which for a division 1 pro roadie tour rider, that's like heavy weight bb'er size. We were amazed how big he got while riding 500 mile weeks and having a 'furnace' for a metabolism...  when he should be so catabolic.  Something was definitely fishy.

Then, 5 weeks later, the whole "cancer thing" began.

185 pounds, that's huge for a cyclist! Considering that his height is also 5'10.

[Parker]

Problem is how do you sell this idea to the public? How do you tell an aspiring athlete (most likely a kid) that he has to pin himself 10 times a week min if he wants to 'make it' professionally and be competitive?

That doesn't even get into insulin use.

You tell the kid the real deal. It's something about the American public, we like to be told these "you are special" stories, you can do it without drugs---look at the mags, look at the supps industry---Jay Cutler selling Muscletech, etc.
Once you have your head in the game for awhile, then you get wise. But, for many athletes, you have to know right here, right now the truth.

[arce1988]

  I have heard that he rode 700 miles per week

[reclifter]

You tell the kid the real deal. It's something about the American public, we like to be told these "you are special" stories, you can do it without drugs---look at the mags, look at the supps industry---Jay Cutler selling Muscletech, etc.
Once you have your head in the game for awhile, then you get wise. But, for many athletes, you have to know right here, right now the truth.

So you tell a kid, at what age, that they will need to break the law, and shoot themselves in the ass with a needle several times a day, if they want to make it?

What do you do when your kid steals a car and tells you that he thought it was OK to break the law?

It's not as simple as just being 'real' with your kids.

But don't get me wrong, if my kid, no matter what age, came to me with a Flex magazine, or picture of Jay Cutler, I would discourage them at all costs.

I would tell them that any 'event' where you oil up and pose in front of an audience,  wearing a banana-hammock, is not something worth doing.  Girls included.

[Big Chiro Flex]

So you tell a kid, at what age, that they will need to break the law, and shoot themselves in the ass with a needle several times a day, if they want to make it?

What do you do when your kid steals a car and tells you that he thought it was OK to break the law?

It's not as simple as just being 'real' with your kids.

But don't get me wrong, if my kid, no matter what age, came to me with a Flex magazine, or picture of Jay Cutler, I would discourage them at all costs.

I would tell them that any 'event' where you oil up and pose in front of an audience,  wearing a banana-hammock, is not something worth doing.  Girls included.

Not being a dick here...
But are you saying you aren't a fan of bodybuilding? I get the current era, but even the golden era? Arnold, nubret, Zane???

[Hypertrophy]

Lance Armstrong never got to 185 pounds for the Olympics. Where this shit comes from, Ill never know. He was lucky if he tipped that scales at 172-175, and that was rare. Go see for yourself from the measurements Ed Coyle took, and graphed (bottom of page on link) http://www.edb.utexas.edu/coyle/armstrong.php

He was bigger as a triathlete. I trained with Steve Bauer, Olympic silver medallist in LA, and Lances team mate. Lance and Steve were close in size, although Steve was a bit shorter. Bauer raced in the high 150's. That got him the yellow Jersey in the Tour one year. And he could climb decently in the mountains. No lightweight tho. Lance was never "grainy" lol. Lean yes. Grainy? You've got to be kidding me. I met Lance in Texas during his Tour days. He was less than imposing. But what an intense guy, thats for sure.

As for 185 at 5'10 as a cyclist, that sure is NOT big. Crit riders always come in heavy. These are flat land road racers. No hill, no need to be mini-me. Im at 185 at 5'9"now and race USAC Cat 3. Im not dwarfing my fellow sprinters, Ill tell you that. True mountain riders are always lighter, like Greg Lemond, who I met and saw racing at the Tour Dupont. They look much bigger in pics, Ill tell you. Tour winners in the 5-8 to 5-10 range weight in the 145-160's. The only monstrous guys in the sport are track racers, who last all of 60 seconds at top end.

[Van_Bilderass]

The whole agenda of trying to make the sports 'look clean' needs to be replaced with trying to make the sport clean by spending money on better, random drug testing...that is if cleaning up the sport was the original intent, which I don't think it is.

Problem is that it will become too intrusive. At some point the athletes will say enough with this shit, it's not worth it to be monitored like a prisoner just to prove that you probably didn't use the drugs on the banned list.

More drug testing is not the solution to the drug "problem." In fact, there's no solution if the goal is clean sports.

Philosophically the whole anti-drug stance makes no sense in the first place.

[reclifter]

Not being a dick here...
But are you saying you aren't a fan of bodybuilding? I get the current era, but even the golden era? Arnold, nubret, Zane???

No offense taken.

I appreciate and personally practice good nutrition, overall fitness/ athletic performance, working out and building muscle, but to be honest, I am a fan of 'bodybuilding', but not as in professional or contest bodybuilding.

I was at one time, but now that I know the unhealthy lifestyle it encompasses, along with all the delusional, lying, cult following, I do not have an interest in it.

Natural bodybuilding is a joke as well...you can never truly know who's natural.

I casually follow the 'characters' in the sport, just for the sake of a freakshow and train wreck.  Kind of the same reason people watch reality TV.

[reclifter]

Problem is that it will become too intrusive. At some point the athletes will say enough with this shit, it's not worth it to be monitored like a prisoner just to prove that you probably didn't use the drugs on the banned list.

More drug testing is not the solution to the drug "problem." In fact, there's no solution if the goal is clean sports.

Philosophically the whole anti-drug stance makes no sense in the first place.

If your theory of random drug testing is too intrusive, then why do the Olympics have so many people willing to abide by the strictest, most random, drug testing in the world?

The Olympics never have a problem 'fielding a team' so to speak.

[Parker]

So you tell a kid, at what age, that they will need to break the law, and shoot themselves in the ass with a needle several times a day, if they want to make it?

What do you do when your kid steals a car and tells you that he thought it was OK to break the law?

It's not as simple as just being 'real' with your kids.

But don't get me wrong, if my kid, no matter what age, came to me with a Flex magazine, or picture of Jay Cutler, I would discourage them at all costs.

I would tell them that any 'event' where you oil up and pose in front of an audience,  wearing a banana-hammock, is not something worth doing.  Girls included.

stealing a car and doing drugs under a doctor's care are two diff things.
We are talking about sports not about the "sport" or cult of bbing.
I used The muscletech as a mere example of how the American public is blinded by the truth.
You must be up front with the individual when the issue comes up.
Unfortunately, the American public is so ignorant of what it takes to win, that saying the ugly truth in public gets you castigated as some sort of pariah, hence the downfall of Marion Jones.

People want their heroes, and they want their heroes to be clean, not tainted...Americans romanticize their heroes that they are faultless, and achieved their goals thru shear will power (just look at the "hardluck" stories with sappy music, that every athlete has). We are sold this American Dream, the Red, White, and Blue, and that said people are nothing short of Gods...and then the truth comes out, and people's dreams are crushed---their heroes are just as mortal as any of us.

[reclifter]

stealing a car and doing drugs under a doctor's care are two diff things.
We are talking about sports not about the "sport" or cult of bbing.
I used The muscletech as a mere example of how the American public is blinded by the truth.
You must be up front with the individual when the issue comes up.
Unfortunately, the American public is so ignorant of what it takes to win, that saying the ugly truth in public gets you castigated as some sort of pariah, hence the downfall of Marion Jones.

People want their heroes, and they want their heroes to be clean, not tainted...Americans romanticize their heroes that they are faultless, and achieved their goals thru shear will power (just look at the "hardluck" stories with sappy music, that every athlete has). We are sold this American Dream, the Red, White, and Blue, and that said people are nothing short of Gods...and then the truth comes out, and people's dreams are crushed---their heroes are just as mortal as any of us.

Well said.

I think once the world stops teaching children to have faith in 'imaginary' beings (gods) and start looking to real human beings for guidance and heroes, the fantasies are gone and the world is suddenly more real.